Hi, I have posted a lot in the "need support for marital problems" thread about my husband's passivity and inability to initiate things. Well, he does not initiate stuff with other women, but he has a history a mile long of being weak around aggressive women who initiate things with him. Therefore, I cannot trust him as far as I can throw him. He's 60, still charismatic, and not about to change.
It starts out as a friendship, and the woman is always so defensive that "it's ok to have a friendship with a man." Well, what they don't understand is that my man can't help himself! He starts confiding in them about things, our marriage, etc., and before you know it he has a crush on them. If they respond in kind, then it's trouble.
Something in his past has made him this weak and susceptible. Yes, I'm insecure and I'm scared. For various reasons. Good reasons. And when that comes out, the woman he's such good "friends" with says to me, "Why do you stay in a marriage with someone you can't trust?" and I say, my reasons are really none of your business. These aggressive women seem to get even more titillated then!
Am I handling this all wrong by getting pro-active before they end up in bed? My husband had a child out of wedlock during his first marriage. He does not initiate these things, he goes along with them. I know there are going be women out there who get outraged with me about this, but I feel as though I need to protect myself from any further pain. When he gets one of these women confidants, he throws it up in my face. Since I know his past, I take action. I can see pro's and con's in my behavior. I'm not so much jealous as I am scared! , and I tell the women that. I do not want to lose this marriage!
I read your thread about how passive/aggressive and avoidant your husband is. After reading it I'm scratching my head at how willing you seem to be to carry on his need to play the victim by saying that he is weak to aggressive women.
Aren't you doing him and yourself a diservice by taking on this attitude? You blame these other woman for his inability to keep his pants on. It's as if you don't feel he has any responsibility in his actions with these women.
The world is full of aggressive women. The world is also full of men who are able to say NO to these aggressive women. You say your man can't help himself. Why do you believe that? Is it easier to deal with the pain of his infidelities if you tell yourself such a thing?
I was married and have been divorced from a passive/aggressive man for years and years. It's a crazy making relationship and the one thing these men do the best is play the victim and try and manipulate others into thinking they are the victim. Sounds to me like your husband has you right where he wants you...blaming EVERYONE but him for his own actions.
If you have read Living With The Passive Aggressive Man then you need to do some more reading about what he says about holding the accountable for their actions and what steps you need to take as far as not beoming the victim of a passive/aggressive person.
You are married to a man who has been married twice before. You say he did basically the same things to his prvious wives, even had a child with a lover during one of these marriages. Do you really think that just because he has been diagnosed as passive/aggressive and avoidant that he is off the hook and someone to try and form a lasting relationship with?
Do some deep, hard thinking about the mess you have gotten yourself into with this man. Stop analyzing his feelings and actions and spend some time analyzing your own. Ask yourself why you are so willing to lay the blame for his actions at the feet of these aggressive women and why you aren't demanding that he take responsibility for the relationships he has with them.
Bottom line, your husband is an adult man who should be expected to police his own behaviors no matter what personality disorder he has been diagnosed with. You are an adult woman who needs to understand this concept and to stop playing into his passive/aggressive need to be the victim because, until you do, you will live with an unfaithful passive/aggressive/avoidant man. Cathy
Wow, that is a really good post and you raise some really good questions. I think I may have overstated my case here because of making so many posts about this, but your points do deserve much consideration, and some answers!
First, he has not been sexually unfaithful to me, and I really sort of doubt that he will ever take anything that far anymore. He has only flirted and gotten a few ladies to be interested in him. One reason why I shouldn't worry so much is that I think he is nearly as fearful of ending up alone as I am. We have been married three years, together four years, we have much invested in this marriage including the fact that my teenage daughter loves him and he loves her.
Another reason why I need to stop this worrying is that he is 60 now, and obese, so he's not going to have women flocking around him like they may have done when he was younger. I think he is beginning to realize that. He's still fairly good looking though, and charismatic. However, he now rides a Harley , and believe it or not, there are "women" out there who will go for anything as long as they can sit on a Harley. Including old, fat, grey-haired men.
As far as me not taking responsibility for the kind of man I married, I do blame myself for not keeping my eyes open wide enough. I knew him for a year, but I wish it had been longer. However, I'm 50 now, not in good health, my bipolar is worse, and so I feel that I'm very lucky that I can hold onto anyone.
I do demand that he take responsibility when I catch him flirting. But you really have no picture of how difficult it is for him to say no. I was talking with a man in another thread about the deep impact that serving in the Marines has had on my husband and how he commented to me once that he "does what he is told." Just like the psych doctor said who founded the concept, PA, these men get their military training mixed up with their relationships! He is so afraid of non-compliance, and confrontations, that he probably would - and has - gone against his own morals in submission to what another woman wants. I didn't know he was like this, that bad, when I married him. Sometimes it takes a few years for the extent of a severe weakness to come out.
Yes I do expect him to police his own conduct. I think he is learning, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a weak, passive person who cannot say no to everyone. All of his wives have told him to grow a backbone , no doubt!
There are lots of good days, and some bad days with him. I guess the good days outweigh the bad or I would not still be here. I need to focus on myself and my own insecurities and allow his passiveness not to get to me anymore. If he does end up in bed with another woman like he has in his past, well I'd say that's more unlikely now given his age, and if that happens - I will definitely leave him.
Thanks so much and be well. You sound like a nice person to know.
My H has told me that I took advantage of his passive personality. I think that I might have in the beginning of our R but in the last couple of years I have tried to hand him the control in the R and in everyday life decisions - and he didn't take it on fully. I think that might be why we are in this position in some ways. He started to feel life responsibilities - everything I used to take care of.
Quote: Just like the psych doctor said who founded the concept, PA, these men get their military training mixed up with their relationships!
I find that to be a rather broad sweeping statement and a dangerous one at that. My ex husband is career military. He has been military for nearly 24 years and our marriage overlapped his military career. I never once saw any evidence that he had his military training mixed up with his relationship with me.
My ex husband's life at work in his military career was a polar opposite from his life at home as a husband and father. Here is the difference. Military people don't have to worry about conflicts on the job. Heck, they run up on a conflict or problem that needs a solution you can bet there has already been a regulation written to cover whatever the problem might be. That is why a passive individual does so well in the military. They either have a higher ranking person there telling them what to do or they have a manual full of regs telling them what to do. It suits their passive, unwillingness to define their own path in life.
In a relationship though there are no regs to refer to when a problem arises. What's a passive man going to do without regs to refer to? He is going to do exactly what his wife tells him to do.
Passive/aggressive men like to take orders. It's called covering their butts so they don't ever have to take responsibility for their own life and choices. Then they can walk off one day accusing you of controlling them or taking advantage of their passive nature.
There isn't any confusion between the relationship and whatever profession they have chosen to follow. You will find that most passive/aggressive individuals will end up in a profession that means having someone else to answer to because that suits their need to not be responsible.
When it comes to relationships though and their actions in a relationship it is driven by a deep fear to become emotionally attached to another human being. It's a matter of not being able to trust. Their actions in the relationship contradict what they are actually feeling. They do what they are told to do for someone that they have very little trust in and very little attachment to. They find it easier to live life with minimal emotional attachment than to actually take responsibility for their own emotional welfare and develop a deep and loving relationship. That might mean getting hurt and it's just easier to suck it up, keep their mouths shut and do what they are told.
I'm 52, suffer from Meneire's Disease and have recently been told that I am unable to work due to the illness. I'm terribly bothered by your statement that with your age and your health you are lucky to be able to hold onto anyone.
Jane Pauley is in her late 40's and is bipolar. Where would she be with an attitude like yours? What I'm trying to say is this...don't sell yourself short because you are no longer young and healthy. Especially not for an obese, passive 60 year old man.
I'm single out of choice. I'm single because I haven't yet met the man that I feel is worthy of me and sharing my life no matter what kind of illness I have. I'm single because I have two teenage boys and I want to show them that no one has to settle out of fear of being alone.
I don't want to live my life alone but I would rather be alone than to ever live with another passive/aggressive man who won't grow a backbone and things he is owed forgiveness just because he can't make his own decisions.
I wish you well and hope you can work on your attitude as far as your age and health. You need to start thinking the other way around...that any man out there would be the lucky one if he can hold onto you. Change your attitude and you might see a change in that old, fat, passive husband you got stuck with. Sorry Cathy
Quote: I find that to be a rather broad sweeping statement and a dangerous one at that. My ex husband is career military. He has been military for nearly 24 years and our marriage overlapped his military career. I never once saw any evidence that he had his military training mixed up with his relationship with me.
I don't understand your post. You said this, but then went on to demonstrate exactly how and why passive men wish to take orders from their wives. If they didn't get their relationship mixed up with their military training, then where does this "order taking" thing come from?
I'm sorry if I sound like I have a bad attitude. I love my "fat, passive, old man." Yes I have low self esteem. I've gained weight from being on Lithium. Jane Pauley hasn't.
Thanks - I will print out your post and think it over more.
