WAW...now LBS part III - DivorceBusting.com

Starting my fourth major sitch thread.

jmw,

Thank you for your response in part 2 of my series.

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On a personal note, I blasted several folks in my family for bringing it up...You should love her more than you love me.

Good for you. I wish my H would stand up for me like this. His sister both when we first got engaged and now has had some not so nice words to say about me. She is now the expert on me and my M even though she has only seen me twice in the past 8 yrs.

I should take a stance with my family. Despite all my H has done I hurt him very badly and that hurt and anger can make a sane person act crazy. I want to stand up for the man I know he is and the man my family adores.

My plan created by my DB coach hasn't been working quite as I planned, but not in a bad way. I haven't had much of a chance to show him my consistent behavior in contacting him b/c he keeps contacting me first. He goes and gets new movies every Tuesday and yesterday called to ask if I wanted to see anything. I didn't have any suggestions so he said he would pick me up anything he thought I would like then suggested that I come over to hang out. I wasn't able to make it last night but plan on it today. He also emailed me today just to chat.

On another topic he is going to sin city this weekend for a reunion of old navy buddies. PMA PMA PMA and prayer, lots of it. Luckily he will only get to spend Friday night and Saturday there, but really I am not to worried.

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I should take a stance with my family.

I would only do it if they keep 'bugging' you about it. I dug a big line in the sand because of other issues involved. Haven't talked to them since. Talk about detaching. And I've felt more detached from sitch---nice unexpected side-bonus.

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I haven't had much of a chance to show him my consistent behavior in contacting him b/c he keeps contacting me first.

that is really aggravating...it's like earlier in my sitch. I was trying to leave W alone, but had to see her like every other day. On a positive for you, he is contacting you first. Also, something to remember, just cause you say "new plan" doesn't mean he'll cooperate right away. So, it gets a mini-delayed start. Don't worry about it. You know what you want to do when you are able to implement. Meanwhile, keep positive, friendly, and I still think you are being consistent...I just think you are frustrated by the mini-baby steps.

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anything he thought I would like then suggested that I come over to hang out. I wasn't able to make it last night but plan on it today. He also emailed me today just to chat.

ummm...you seem frustrated here to me. Like you want more than more movies and email chat today...maybe I am wrong. I don't get the movie invite, but I know I get frustrated at the time it takes to just get measurable success.

I appreciate your post on my current thread. I thought I'd let you know here that in addition to

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...love isn't just a feeling but a choice...

that I get a lot of strength from something I learned several Sunday's back...Real love is loving and expecting nothing in return.

Real Love and Proverbs 3:5-6, that's what gives me all my strength. It gives me the courage to try when I have no clue. And it gives me the wisdom knowing the Lord is at the helm.

gl2u...

HIC~ Just checkin in...it's nice to see your H is offering to have you over for movies...looks like stage 2 is working well for you $\:\)$ that is awesome!! Keep it up!

I talked with my DB coach yesterday. We have a plan in place. So for now, it is just being patient. I am going to continue no contact; we both agreed, it feeds his ego way too much for me to contact him. I will be waiting, patiently unfortunatly for now!! Work is really busy, so at least I have something to keep my time occupied! Thank the Lord for that $\:\)$

Take Care,
HUGS
Christa

Originally Posted By: jmw128

ummm...you seem frustrated here to me. Like you want more than more movies and email chat today...maybe I am wrong. I don't get the movie invite, but I know I get frustrated at the time it takes to just get measurable success.

We have been in turmoil for about a 1.5yrs now and I AM frustrated waiting for our M to get back on track. I have talked to a handful of therapist since the bomb and our black widow therapist (little harsh, but true). I have talked about the sitch so much that I think it has become so matter of fact. As all the therapist tell me; I am so calm when I talk about the sitch. I suppose that comes across in my writing.

I am on my new DB diet. I'm cutting out the expectations. So I have been pleasantly surprised by him making the effort to build a friendship these last few weeks. I'm holding on to these things as you suggested.d

Thx always!

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I have talked to a handful of therapist since the bomb and our black widow therapist (little harsh, but true). I have talked about the sitch so much that I think it has become so matter of fact.

I think that at first it helps, but at some point it is not helpful. Like counselor asked me about it today...she doesn't really care. Just a matter of fact thing. I guess that is some detaching b/c I didn't really want to share. Almost like a separate part of life. Heck I don't know. I just know that when you get sick of talking about it and matter of fact with some people then it is time to tell them "I do not want to talk about it." or maybe friendly for some, in my case, "she is friendlier and friendlier each time we interact." the end.

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I am on my new DB diet. I'm cutting out the expectations.

that helps a lot I think. Like me thinking W will call yesterday or today b/c of blank...can't just sit back and expect, hope, etc...doesn't help. Waiting is frustrating. Expecting is worse because of the potential let down.

gl2u

HiC, 2 time for me to chime in on your quote...it helps to do it...

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I should take a stance with my family.

thought I'd let you know, that I was asked by some different family members about sitch Sunday. I told them as nicely as I could, "quite honestly, I don't want to talk about it. I know how many people feel and I don't want to hear it. They are only thinking of me, now. They are not thinking of W, 5D, or our family." It feels good knowing I won't have to talk about it with them anymore.

I tell you this because it is helping me a lot, perhaps it will you too. Eliminate all but the positive, helpful, supportive and don't lean on those few to often.

HiC, Check out my dedicated - any comment on W's buzzard comments?

gl2u

Wow, I am back from Puerto Rico and I feel rejuvenated. It was really nice to get away from it all.

Now, on to the situation...

We talked last night on the phone for 2 hours. It ranged from the divorce, to our relationship, to my trip, and her past week. All in all, it was pretty nice. Today I asked her this: "Great, I will see you Tuesday night for our Survivor and ice cream DATE! Beware, there will be a little romance involved. That's a hint in case you want to cancel."

Her response, "What time? Will tonight work? I watched it; but I'll watch it again."

I said, "Sure tonight I can make work. Come over about 8:30."

I don't know what to think about that.

She is still planning on getting her own place and moving in May 1st. Since we had our first court date (March 27th); she has been living with friends in another town.

I know I shouldn't; but I take her moving into her own place as such a negative aspect of our relationship. It seems to me that there is no moving back once she moves out. I hope she feels different.

HiC, I think the movie thing is awesome. There is no doubt he likes your company. I might be dumb here by forcing the romance; but it seems like she isn't fighting it. I will let you all know how it goes tonight.

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Beware, there will be a little romance involved. That's a hint in case you want to cancel."

Her response, "What time? Will tonight work? I watched it; but I'll watch it again."

you warned her and she still wants to show up...that sounds like a good thing to me. And besides, she's already seen it and still wants to show. That's like watching the end of the ballgame again. Why do that? Hope you all goes well and have a good time. "as if"

gl2u

Well, it didn't go as well as I would have liked; but I believe my expectations were too high. We hung out on the couch and watched TV. I held her hand and stroked her hair; but nothing was really reciprocated. At the end of the night, we exchanged hugs and a peck on the lips. As I walked her to her car, I gave her another hug and tried for another kiss. I went about 90%; but she moved her head and just hugged me. I know I was pushing it too much. Well, I will learn from my mistakes and move on.

after that fiasco, I am REALLY trying to just be an unconditional friend. My main emotion nowadays is just scared. I am scared that nothing I am doing is working to get her to change her mind. Today she meets with her lawyer to see what the next step is to proceed with the divorce. Also, she is moving out of the house on May 1st.

Thank you all for your support. HiC, you still out there?

Originally Posted By: jaw3149

We talked last night on the phone for 2 hours. It ranged from the divorce, to our relationship, to my trip, and her past week. All in all, it was pretty nice. Today I asked her this: "Great, I will see you Tuesday night for our Survivor and ice cream DATE! Beware, there will be a little romance involved. That's a hint in case you want to cancel."

Her response, "What time? Will tonight work? I watched it; but I'll watch it again."

I know I shouldn't; but I take her moving into her own place as such a negative aspect of our relationship. It seems to me that there is no moving back once she moves out. I hope she feels different.

I might be dumb here by forcing the romance; but it seems like she isn't fighting it.

Well, it didn't go as well as I would have liked; but I believe my expectations were too high. We hung out on the couch and watched TV. I held her hand and stroked her hair; but nothing was really reciprocated. At the end of the night, we exchanged hugs and a peck on the lips.

Jaw,

May I ask why you are having D and R talks still. You really want to strive to make every interaction positive and free of D and R talks (even if you are able to talk about it nicely).

It is really all about discovering what works and what doesn't. If it doesn't then move on but if she is not fighting you I would say to keep doing what you are doing but don't push until she gives you the signal that she is ready to move forward. In general it does sound as if things are going well (she is still spending time with you, holding your hand, giving you pecks etc.)Yes, you really do need to remove all expectations at this point so that you can concentrate on being a good friend and maintaining your focus and sanity.

It is difficult to say how the sep. will affect your R. It can make things more difficult but it isn't end of the world (although I know sometimes it can feel like it). I have had two different experiences with sep. The first sep. made us grow apart, but the second sep. is allowing me to focus on me, my efforts to rebuild a friendship, and to show him only the best of me. There was no DBing in the first sep. and neither of us were given the tools by our therapist to work on ourselves or the M. Hang in there!

HiC -

I start talking about D and R almost without thinking. I need to work harder at avoiding those talks.

We are going to a child's birthday party of a couple who we are both friends with and we are bringing our children. It is a pool party and I am going to try to be really happy and friendly to my wife. I am going to try hard to not do anything romantic and just treat her like a friend. Will let you know how it goes.

Thank you HiC. I will concentrate on the friendship and wait her out. I hope everything is going good with you. I would love an update.

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I start talking about D and R almost without thinking.

you absolutely have to stop bringing that stuff up. I did that at the very first few weeks of separation. But stopped. You must consider what the benefit will be. And it's zippo. Do you actually think you will convince her to change her mind by some astounding comment? It would be just like talking to her best friend to get the friend to convince her to do something different. That just isn't going to work. It is pursuing and can be needy. I actually think it makes us look weak also. I tell myself often that I must be stronger than her. I do not get the pecks and hold hands so I think you just need to be happy with where you are at and remember she's the captain of this boat ride. Don't rock the boat with D talk. Why bring up what you don't want. Just validates her feelings of wanting the D You have to stop that.

Having said all that, and hope not a rant, you are doing well. I have not held hands or had a kiss from my W in 8 months. Be happy...just don't expect so much, and enjoy your pool party. Just act "as if". You will be fine. Heck, like I said before she went to watch the show with you. That is great. Enjoy all your time together.

gl2u

Jaw - I hope my post was not a rant to you about bringing up R stuff. I will tell you that after an hour and 20 minute conversation with W yesterday evening, about 5D stuff, parents, plans in the upcoming month, work, blah blah, I told a story about 5D and I catching fireflies and how I learned that you have to thank God for not only the big things but the little things in life. W said, "I am happy for you. But it bothers me you are still wearing your ring. You need to let it go." In the past, I would've started with why, I don't understand, you never given a reason, never tried, said a month and then waited a week, deprived me of 5D for a month, some other R topic, etc... but last night I said, "I am sorry to hear that. Ummmm...I did not call to talk about us. I called to see if 5D did blank and to talk with her." and then continued with a 5D discipline issue and to do what is best for her. Then said, I need to go cell phone ringing again. She said ok. Point is it was a 180 to not go into it. Nothing good would come from saying anything about the ring, R, M, whatever. Now, of course, I have no idea if I should take it off to validate her or continue wearing for the personal reasons we all keep it on for.

Just wanted to tell you that story from my personal experience of late. Hopefully, it does something for you.

gl2u

jmw -

No, I liked the rant. Thank you for that. I take constructive criticism good and every now and then I need a slap alongside the head. I am distancing myself a little more. I think I am coming across as needy and wanting physical intimacy. I want her to know that I just want her friendship. I am really interested in how Saturday will go. I think a birthday party and swimming will be good for our relationship. As long as the kids are good, family time is really enjoyable.

Has your W started the D process?

I got no-fault papers in November. She cannot get a no-fault without me signing in my state, so she is a bit stuck. Having said that, I have told her things I wanted/need to be changed and she has not contacted or done anything about it in say 5 months. She last brought it up 1st of the month. Prior to that was February. It's like a monthly thing...5D schedule sparks it. Her approach to bringing up negative R stuff is changing too...5 months ago, it was like I want this D when are you signing, last month why are we prolonging with no mention of D word, and last night ring bothering her. Still no mention of me getting my stuff in last 3 months. Who knows...sometimes I wonder if I should take ring off, get my stuff, and show her "move on". Then I think what good will it do, this isn't some sort of movie role. It's not what I want. So, then I revert to being patient and consistent in the things that are getting some results...mostly just leaving her alone, do for 5D and I, working on GAL, 180's for me, etc...

she isn't angry anymore. that is good, I hear her sweet voice, laugh, smile on her face...small steps...

gl2uall

Hey Ms HiC.

Movies with you in mind. That sounds like thoughtfulness. Good for you, good for your spouse.

*hugs*

HIC~ Sounds like things are going good in cali!! Wish they were in the middle of the cornfield land!! 4 weeks monday, no contact...yuk $\:$$ oh well!! Trying to stay busy $\:$$ Let me ponder a thought with you. If we truly role reverse, at what point does the role reversal happen? I can't help but wonder if that is what is happening, and he just needs his time to figure this all out. I hope he figures it out sooner rather than later. 3 months since we have seen each other, the last time it was that long, was right after I left. Anywho, I pray harder every day, anything is possible with God in my corner!!

hugs 2 u
Christa

jaw,

Things are much the same in my last few posts. Things seem to be improving, but of course never at the pace I would like. Who am I to complain though. Progress is progress. After the bomb he would not only not call me to spend time together, but wouldn't accept my invites. Now he is calling me and seems eager to talk and spend time with me.

I definitely understand that it is difficult to not talk about the relationship. From time to time I still struggle with it. When I feel the urge to speak about the relationship I remind myself that not only will nothing I say improve our relationship or change his mind, but in fact they will most likely have the opposite effect. The more you can stick to DB rules the more progress you make. You can do it.

Originally Posted By: christarn

HIC~ Sounds like things are going good in cali!! Wish they were in the middle of the cornfield land!!
I pray harder every day, anything is possible with God in my corner!!

Things are better than usual, but I still rack my brain trying to figure out how to build that connecting with him. I truly hope things turn around for you. You are a faithful woman and I believe God is working on our husbands and ourselves.

A thought occured to me the other day. I had been crying out to God "why hasn't my marriage been saved, will it ever..." and it crossed my mind that perhaps my marriage hasn't personally been saved because God knows I am not ready and when I am the Christian and wife he has planned for me to be only then will my marriage have some hope of survival.

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Let me ponder a thought with you. If we truly role reverse, at what point does the role reversal happen? I can't help but wonder if that is what is happening, and he just needs his time to figure this all out. I hope he figures it out sooner rather than later...

I wonder the same thing and it is one of the things that keeps me going to be honest. I tell myself that I just needed time to wake up and figure it out and like me one day he will do the same. I think the obstacle that we face, besides rebuilding a connection with our H, is rebuilding trust. I am praying to and I am praying for you too and all of us.

Hugs back to you!!!

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...is rebuilding trust

yup...WA and LB have been hurt...time, patience, and consistency. DB will help us get there. And the Lord will direct us. He is in charge. He will save us all.

HiC, don't worry about the slow pace...try to enjoy where you are at. I know it is hard. I sure wish I could watch a movie with mine. But I have to be content with the very slow progress. At least the progress that I hope I am measuring correctly. I will say their confusion does complicate our thoughts of progress. But once again, we cannot control that. We must be strong. I tell myself sometimes we must be stronger than them. Meaning, we cannot become weak and slide back but be stronger. Like to not pursue or be needy blah blah...

gl2u

Help me on the needy...

Your progress is an inspiration.

*hugs*

Gypsy,

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Help me on the needy...

that could be almost anything. Even simple stuff, like how did you cook that meal with the ... just anything. You have to find a solution that does not involve them. Or something bad happens at work or other family members. Until one gets into Stage 2, cannot call to lean on their shoulder. It's needy and they don't want it. Fix sink, blah blah, on your plate...wonder if it's a progression of pursuing, needing, wanting, would like and then...each of those has a very distinct meaning to me...just my thoughts.

HiC, thanks for your post on my current thread...really just think she is pulling back a bit...we will see I suppose...

gl2uall

HIC~ Thanks for the help/advice. I'm just kind of at a loss/lull right now. Today is 4 weeks no contact. I have heard from several people that our friends who are now D'd, the guy is living with my H. so I'm sure it is quite the bachelor pad. So, I have a feeling, it's going to be a while before I hear anything out of him. Two guys, seperated, living the single life, riding motorcycles, girl I need to stop, or I'm going to puke, or go crazy thinking of what else is going on at what used to be my home. Sorry needed to vent....

I pray sooooo hard that God is guiding my H and sending the Holy Spirit to show him the way. I think for now that is all I can do, pray for him. I know when it's time, God will bring us together, in His perfect time. He knows when we will both be ready. Have you checked out the sight rejoiceministries.org? They send out a daily devotional which is nice, it helps to keep me focused. It's Christian based, and it just helps me to remember what I am fighting for and why. I am a Catholic, so some of the things are new to me, but overall it's some good stuff!

Thanks for your help, support, and listening ears HIC, you get what I'm going thru. hugs to you $\:\)$
Christa

I NEED SOME ADVICE!

Quick Summary of the Past:

I had a physical affair with my wife's best friend 3 years ago. After 6 months, we got back together and started working on our marriage. Most recently, 7 months ago the same woman I had an affair with contacted me and we started talking on the phone back and forth. The talks were just about each other's lives and where we were at now. They were completely platonic. After a few months, my wife and her ran into each other and started their friendship back up. Two months after that, my wife found out that we had been talking and said she wanted a divorce. That was the end of December. February 13th she presented me with divorce papers.

Current Events:

We have had one court date to determine custody and living arrangements until the D is final. She is currently living with friends and will be moving into her own place April 9th.

She told me a couple days ago that it is IMPOSSIBLE that we will get back together and that I was never focused on her in this marriage. She said that the woman I had an affair with told her that I said I was only still married because of the kids. I told her that I said no such thing. What I did say was that we would probably have been divorced by now if we didn't have kids.

Well, just last night my son told me in front of my wife that they went to a woman's house and he had fun. I said who's house? He said he didn't know. So, I asked my wife and she said it was this same woman that I had an affair with. She went over there with the kids, our kids played with her kids, they all hung out, had sandwiches, and talked. I asked what for. She said she wanted to know what me and this other woman had talked about. So I asked, what did you find out? My W then said that the other woman confirmed everything I said.

So, here are my questions:

1. Isn't it obvious my W's friendship with this other woman is more important to her than her marriage to me?

2. My W was supposed to come over to hang out tonight, watch Survivor, and look at my vacation pics. Should I cancel?

3. I want to tell her, "I need to stop hanging around you. I need to remove my feelings for you and get on with my life." Should I do that?

I am so DAMN confused. Seriously, WTF is she thinking?

ummmmm....answer to all three....ummm....no.

work calls...but I will further elaborate later. Do not react...sounds like searching for answers. Frazzlin' work...more later.

gl2u

JAW~ One thing I have learned throughout all of this(over a year into it) 48 hour rule! If you are thinking of any decision making, wait a minimum of 48 hours to let any anger or other emotion have time to settle.

Most of the time, I believe, our S's are looking for a reaction from us. When put in a specific situation the best reaction, is no reaction....then watch their reaction!!! They will be like...WTF!!!! Like her being BFF with the chick you had an afair with...and all of them hanging out, like nothing happened...she's doing it to P#ss you off. So the best thing, IMHO, for you to do, would be do nothing. Take the high road, be the better person, and say something along the lines of " I'm really glad our kids and so n so's get along so great, that's awesome! I bet that would make her jaw drop to the floor! I know that is extremely hard to do. But don't let her fuel your emotions, which she is doing.

As for hanging out with her tonight, if you need some time away, after recent events, simply say, something has come up and I need to reschedule....totally your call. But I would deffinetly use reschedule....you don't want to loose your opprotunity!

I don't think she is putting the friendship ahead of your R/M. I think she is acting/reacting out of hurt/anger/resentment, and she probably doesn't know what to do. She regained her trust in you and even though the two of you were simply talking...that trust was violated. It hurt her. I must say though, I am surprised she isn't mad at the OW too....I am a woman, and if it were me, I'd be kickin you and the OW and both of your arses!!! She's emotionally devistated, it's going to take a ton of time and a ton of patience.

Hope it gets better for you $\:\)$
Stay strong!
hugs,
Christarn

a question that I have before work starts hammering me...how is talking to someone you know any different than talking to a new friend about something about your R...In my sitch, I find that answer to be zero. It sounded as if you knowing this woman really makes you feel differently than if it were someone else you did not know. My W pushed everyone away b/c of her anger. Now, she is not angry at me, so my DB coach says that is a great positive for me. Yet, she is now talking to some woman that I have not met. How is that different? My point is that talking to someone that you know where you do not know all of the conversation yet make decisions based on this unknown is not a good idea. It hurts yes b/c you think that you feel that this person restated everything you told W. But that is not the basis to make changes in YOUR ACTIONS. If she wants to watch the show with you, then do it. It's kind of like spying in a way, did it help you to know she talked to this person you know? Do you feel better? Would you make these decisions if you did not know what you know now? I think not. Also, has anything really changed? If nothing else, it should be thought as a positive because this person reinforced what you already told W.

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"I need to stop hanging around you. I need to remove my feelings for you and get on with my life."

this sounds like me in the past. meaning, something she does creates a feeling of happiness or hurt. You have to detach in order for her actions to not create a mood change in you. You must not allow these mood changes...you have to create the happiness for yourself. Only in this way will you react with a positive frame of mind. Furthermore, you do not want the "get on with my life" part or you wouldn't be here. What you can do, is create your own space while she may be angry. Like me last night, I didn't respond to a simple text. She asked about it when I saw her 30 minutes later. Which I felt was a positive. Mini-pursuing perhaps. You just don't have to react to everything they do...and the 48 hour rule is very good advice. Wait awhile. You will find that your sentiment or initial pains and confusions will subside in a bit and you can think clearly. Additionally, your kids were there. Did occur to you that she wanted you to find out? Don't react. Be indifferent. Don't react...just continue what you are doing. Like I said about spying...do like you have been doing, as if you did not know...your frame of mind was better before.

sorry if this is jumbled, but work calls and I can't revise now...

gl2u

Thanks for all of the advice. It has helped with me taking no action and letting my feelings subside.

jmw -

I need to restate that this other woman my wife talked and hung out with was the woman I had an affair with and the reason my W gave for leaving me and getting a D.

RECAP:

Hung out last night with W, watched a TV show, looked at my vacation pictures, visited a little bit, and then she went home. Positives: she agreed to hang out and things were friendly; but not at all romantic. I will keep on keeping on. $\:\)$

JAW3149~ have you seen the stages HIC and I have talked about on here the coaches are now talking about in reconciling a R/M? If not let us know!! This all sounds positive!! Good job $\:\)$

Christarn

I understand that jaw...I am not sure how relevant that is after the time past except for her to find out what you already told her...however it may be...I just wouldn't react to her spending time with her. Perhaps, she is getting information to confirm what you state...that to me is positive, maybe very positive. Agreed perhaps odd but I would definitely not react negatively to it. Won't help you. Also, try to remember that she said that she wanted this b/c of this woman, but you know as well as I do, we all got a long list of "reasons". It could be that she is losing this "reason", that is positive...remember WA's look for reasons to validate their choice. Just don't see her being best friends with this person, seems like information exchange to me. Blah blah.

I still think it is interesting that she took kids. I think she wanted you to find out. Besides, she wants to spend time with you. Don't push. Be happy with what is positive and enjoy that time.

gl2u

miss your posts HiC - I hope your absence means that things are going well for you...

gl2u

Hi jmw,

Work and life in general has been extremely busy and I have missed my visits to the board lately.

The latest interaction with the H was on Tuesday. He called me twice. The first I missed since my phone was off and never notified me. The second call he told me that he picked up some movies and I should come by to watch them. I suggested Wednesday since Tuesday's are long days for me with my Bible Study Group after work. He had plans for Wed. and I suggested if he didn't mind waiting that I could stop by after church.

I was surprised to see that he picked "chick flicks" that he would normally never watch and no movies for himself. It was a nice surprise after his call last Friday in response to my call on Thursday and he seemed to almost be begging me to invite him out, but then not returning my call on Saturday. So things seem to be getting minimally better, but better is better is better. I holding on and keeping hope. I hope you are doing well. I will drop by again very soon.

That sounds good. Especially picking out movies that you would be more interested in...Sounds like he enjoys seeing you.

I can say I feel a bit similar to you with the call thing. I had a great time with W at 5D dance the other night. We spent a good bit of time thinking of -ar and -or words for 5D homework, like marker, horse, etc...laughing, giggling at our ineptitude. So, next morning I sent a text listing the -ar and -or items I had sent with 5D for show and tell. With only those items, and the -ar and -or capitalized. This to me was one of the best parts of the 5D dance time. This text in my mind would bring back that good memory. Of course, no response...I guess you could say I didn't expect it. I had a great time and I believe she did to. Silly to think she would have responded. The details of the 5D dance with W is in my solution journal.

DB coach Saturday morning...woohoo...last time she said I was teetering on stage 2. Perhaps this time I will be on the cusp...lol

gl2u

jmw -

Laughter, smiles, friendly conversation, are all great signs. Obviously you are doing things correct. Keep it up!

HiC -

Have missed your posts; but I am excited for you. "Chick flicks"! I don't even know if I want my W back enough to start watching those. j/k Good signs from him. Keep holding on and hoping. That is all we can do sometimes! I am proud of you!

thanks jaws - it felt great, especially after ring comment from week back. she said lots of simple things that really feel like steps in the friendly direction. Things that shows she cares or simple apology because her stuff was in my chair, or how wonderful, the comb I left to buy, was to have, or simple laughing, smiling conversation over 5D HW...all in solution journal...

what's up w/ u?

gl2uall

jmw - Not much new. W asked if I would watch the kids the Friday nights she has them. She has softball games those nights. She asked if I would take care of them at her new place that she will be moving into next Friday. I said I could watch them there or just keep them at my house. Any suggestions? I was thinking it would be best for me to keep them at my house so during our custody trial I have proof that I was willing to be with the kids whenever she was willing to give up time. I also thought it would be good for me to take care of them at her place to possibly spend more time with her and get the R back on track. I really don't know. I am leaning on having them at my house.

Quote:

She asked if I would take care of them at her new place...I said I could watch them there or just keep them at my house.

it has a lot to do with how pleasant things are with you two. And the things she is doing seem like you can do things in a non-confrontational way such as peck good night and hugs. Having said all of that, this is how I handle these kind of things now...I would not have said my house. If I can help out, I say something like that would be great, good, or something like that...positive, nothing negative, and short response. You know listen more, talk less. No novel needed in your response, she will tell you all about softball if you let her...lol. Sometimes my W will offer choices like in this case she might have said my place or your place. When she does that I say something like whatever is most convenient or easier for you. Something like that. I give her that kind of 'control'. Because, in my mind, these kind of things don't make a bit of difference. It lets her make choices. If she views you as controlling then this is a simple way of doing a 180. You are not controlling it a bit. Often, it's these kind of little things the WA, in my opinion, feels that the LBS is controlling.

I'd also like to say that her asking you to come to her house w/o her there is interesting in my mind. And that in itself is a positive. I think it shows a lot of trust and closeness. Certainly shows she is not awkward toward you in her life.

I know court stuff always in the mind but I don't see how you keeping them at her house is a strike against you. Could even be a positive there. Regardless, it is time and that is what I would think is most important...heck if you got them and went to the public park and then back to W's would that lose you a point in court. I doubt it. You have a home and job I am sure and that is what they look at.

If you are really concerned about where children then when the next time comes around just say something like, I was thinking of taking them to the park, pizza, wherever, if that is ok with you, and then swing by my house watch movie, see the new whatever...anything...I just would not create a controversy and I certainly would say anything about 'next times' now. Let her handle it...btw, I think it is worth pointing out that I do not think this is one of those doormat issues. So, I wouldn't worry about that either. She wants and needs you to do something at her place. I think that is all positive...

just my 2cents...sorry about the jumble...work, no revision time...

gl2u

Quote:

Often, it's these kind of little things the WA, in my opinion, feels that the LBS is controlling.

to clarify, I meant before the bomb...

hope that novel helps you out jaws...just my approach...I think you are doing great...

gl2u

Originally Posted By: HOPEFULinCALI

Hi jmw,

Work and life in general has been extremely busy and I have missed my visits to the board lately.

The latest interaction with the H was on Tuesday. He called me twice. The first I missed since my phone was off and never notified me. The second call he told me that he picked up some movies and I should come by to watch them. I suggested Wednesday since Tuesday's are long days for me with my Bible Study Group after work. He had plans for Wed. and I suggested if he didn't mind waiting that I could stop by after church.

I was surprised to see that he picked "chick flicks" that he would normally never watch and no movies for himself. It was a nice surprise after his call last Friday in response to my call on Thursday and he seemed to almost be begging me to invite him out, but then not returning my call on Saturday. So things seem to be getting minimally better, but better is better is better. I holding on and keeping hope. I hope you are doing well. I will drop by again very soon.

HIC, this sounds like it is nothing but positive to me. I am very happy that things seem to be moving in the right direction. Keep on keeping on.

Originally Posted By: jaw3149

Have missed your posts; but I am excited for you. "Chick flicks"! I don't even know if I want my W back enough to start watching those. j/k Good signs from him. Keep holding on and hoping. That is all we can do sometimes! I am proud of you!

Lol. As always, thank you so much for your support. Sorry I didn't get a chance to chime in on you earlier question. I don't have much to add b/c I think that Christa and JMW said it all. I would focus on the positive. She is angry. Anger is the result of sadness and hurt amongst other things. Hmm. Doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care. Hold onto the fact that she still cares. Like Christa said don't make any rash decisions. Hang in there.

HiC,

put a bit in solution journal about DB coach and all...let me know what u think.

gl2u...hope your weekend went well.

p.s. thank you for chiming in the other day...

HiC,

how are you? got served yesterday so it feels that teetering on friendship took a setback...leaving her alone - no point talking to her, it won't help - guess that's a 180 - sure she expected it.

gl2uall

Hey HiC..

Good to see your name and that things are progressing.

*hugs*

Hi JMW and Gypsy,

Good to hear from you.

JMW,

I can only imagine how it must feel, but I know you won't change your focus. You have been so strong throughout this process and you are an inspiration. It is a bump in the road, but it is just that, a bump. You were served papers so how has that changed your friendship? I hope not at all. You definitely want to show her consistency and that you are not affected by having recieved papers. If not talking to her is out of the ordinary I would stray away from that. Sounds like she is expecting you to react to the papers, but in a negative way. I think the best way for you to show her no reaction is to continue what you have been doing.

exactly...I did not react. I will continue to what I am doing b/c that is the new me. I also, must be strong now...stronger than ever, b/c my 5D needs me.

JMW,

Do you have a new solution journal. I was going to put in my two cents, but the meter was full.

The latest. I spoke with my DB coach and she was pleased with the progress I/we have made. She even said that we are solidly in Stage 2 and feels that Stage 3 is just over the hill. She said that I should, amongst other things, start contributing to our time together to show my appreciation such as when he asks me to come watch a movie to bring some snacks and beverages with me.

I called H yesterday trying contact him before he contacted me. The few things that I noted showed progress include:
1. Him engaging AND contributing to the conversation.
2. Accepting my invite to have a "Lost" and "the office" night and bring his newest favorite from Rubio's (which he said that he would like for me to bring over last night, but could wait until Thurs., also a plus that he wants to see me besides the times we schedule it).

He also mentioned that he would check into the expiration of our cell phones so he could get us new ones.

Also this past Saturday I saw him and as my coach suggested I began to leave the house when he stopped contributing to the conversation. His reaction was "why". I have NEVER recieved that response.

My coach also suggested that I try a kiss, but I am far to scared for that one. I'll start with a kiss on the cheek. Also on the list to show interest in his hobbies.

We seem to have long periods of no progress followed by a sudden show of progress. I feel like this may be one of those times and I hope I am right. I am about to take a leap of faith tomorrow night.

made new SJ...gotta do work stuff...I have a few thoughts for you. But your progress sounds great...

Quote:

My coach also suggested that I try a kiss, but I am far to scared for that one.

then I would do the 48 hour thing and see if your fears subside a bit...I did that with ring thing. Well, didn't wait that long, but after thinking about it awhile you'll know when...don't be scared when you do.

I'll chime more later...gotta call atty and work...

gl2u

HiC -

WOW! I am so envious. My situation seems to be going the opposite direction. Good luck with the kiss. Take time to think about it and to act on it. You have done so good. I am going to update my thread. Man, I can't get over how well you are doing. I am so proud!

Quote:

His reaction was "why". I have NEVER recieved that response.

That is awesome....seems like a good sign that what you are doing is working.

Hey HiC,

how are you...how are things? can't say my sitch is changed much...but I am prepared for my big 180 tonight...thought is in journal

gl2u

thought better of my thought in journal...got DB coach for tomorrow...

hope all is well with you HiC...gl2u

Thanks Jay for the support.

jmw,

Well our last interaction was ok. Nothing unusual. We got along well as usual. Watching TV and movies together I can see is getting old for him and is not doing much to create a spark. We also haven't been spending the weekends together at all. I am racking my brain trying to come up with new ideas that will be fun for us. He IS only 26 so slow paced, romantic activities, while he doesn't mind for our anniversary or Valentine's day, aren't necessarily his thing. Also, he still has a bum knee.

The kiss on the cheek was a bit akward. He didn't expect it. When I went to kiss him on the cheek his reaction was to kiss me back on the cheek but it ended up being a half kiss then he kissed me again on the other cheek (that's the Greek in him). I haven't seen or talked to him since, but I will try again next time. Maybe I will try a peck on the lips like my coach suggested, but I am afraid of scaring him off.

HiC -

Try the peck! It sounds like he didn't mind the kiss on the cheek. What do you have to lose? Good luck HiC and I am praying for you!

jaw,

I tried the peck last night, twice. He wasn't having it. He just kept turning away. Oh well. Thanks for the encouragement. Next time.

I know that DBing tells you to not believe everything you hear and see, but I am finding it difficult these days as the lies about myself and our relationship become more and more outrageous. He is now telling people that I am basically psycho and that I am going to "cut his gas lines". I would never do such a ridiculous thing.

I found out the latest yesterday right before I saw him. At first it was very hard to be nice to him, but I bit my tongue and put the 48hr rule into effect. To my surprise our interaction went nicely and had a genuineness that I didn't know was lacking until last night. But............

At one point we were best friends, each other's biggest cheerleaders, and respected each other more that we ever have another person. I gave him a lot of good years and even when I left I continued to be a friend, continued to try, and continued to respect him and our relationship. This is in no way to say I was the perfect wife. If I was we would most likely be together. It just crushes me that he is doing this for absolutely no good reason and after 8months and me giving in to his every request. Just having a hard day. Hope for tomorrow will get me through today.

HiC -

I too have been having some hard days lately. My W has befriended the woman (her former best friend) I had an affair with and who recontaced me. My W told me that she was divorcing me because of my contact with this woman. Now she is friends with her; but can't forgive me. There is more on this in my thread; but I too just keep hoping that tomorrow is better than today. I wish that you could see how far you have come. Try not to focus on the negative and know that your persistence WILL pay off. Most days, that's all any of us have to hold on to.

I have NO doubt that you can do this HiC. Stay strong for us as well as yourself. I love to feed off others successes!

Quote:

I tried the peck last night, twice. He wasn't having it. He just kept turning away. Oh well... Next time.

I think perhaps after your successful pecks from a few posts back that trying for more this soon may have scared him a bit. I'd just wait a movie time or two before I tried again. He was interested the first time and that to me was a very good sign.

Also, I am in kind of a state of confusion like jaws...must be weather, lol...hard on us all. Brighter days ahead...

gl2u

jaw,

Thanks so much. You have no idea how much your encouragement means to me. I really came close to giving up but I am working on detaching from his actions and my anger. The boost from you guys really helps me stay on track.

I hope that things start to look up for you. You deserve it. I'll stop by your thread. I feel like I have lost track of everyone and yet everyone has been so supportive $\:\($

I have some catching up to do.

Originally Posted By: jmw128

I think perhaps after your successful pecks from a few posts back that trying for more this soon may have scared him a bit. I'd just wait a movie time or two before I tried again. He was interested the first time and that to me was a very good sign.

Also, I am in kind of a state of confusion like jaws...must be weather, lol...hard on us all. Brighter days ahead...

gl2u

I think I will take it slow and follow his lead. Thanks for stopping by. I know I have to stop by your thread to catch up with you.

Confusion, yes, ugh. Is it the weather? Could we have ever imagined that our S's would become such different people?

Something DB coach told me the other day which applies...I was referring to response to my papers, but I said something to the effect that I should not do significantly more or less than what my W is doing. And I thought this was the way to be...DB coach said, "NO". I said, "well, is it like she is driving the car and I say lets take a left here." And she said, "no, it's like you take over driving while she rests awhile and then let her drive again when she is ready." Can't help but think that is something that you would like to hear. Of course, I don't know when the next "peck" would be, but you will.

Quote:

I know I have to stop by your thread to catch up with you.

I know you are busy...I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts...W friendly lately, more so than before papers...but summon court date soon and who knows if the two are related. Last night I called her and she did something that she hadn't done before and I noticed immediately. It may seem small or maybe it is big I don't know. She had said something about getting off phone, and I said something like I understood b/c of testing...and she said, "don't, don't, just don't even, stop, don't even bother going there, ..." and usually that's the silence or in this case, bye with a click and a dial tone to follow...last night, she continued, and on and on she went, like an additional 10 minutes sharing all about it...her sharing about her stressful day/life and not essentially cutting me out was definitely something different...that's the short, way to long version in the journal #2...

gl2u

HiC - hope all is well with you...Wanted to let you know something that I got a warped chuckle out of this morning. My W has our summons court thing on the same day as 5D graduation and she doesn't know it...just hilarious to me...court, 5D graduation, and she is going out of town with 5D the next day...I bet that is all screwed up...lmao.

gl2u...

How are you HiC?

if you get time, I would greatly appreciate your input on my latest idea in my current...thanks...

gl2u

Hi

Originally Posted By: jmw128

she said, "no, it's like you take over driving while she rests awhile and then let her drive again when she is ready." Can't help but think that is something that you would like to hear. Of course, I don't know when the next "peck" would be, but you will.

So is this in comparison to us "driving" and investing in the M while they take a break? I'm not sure I am understanding the concept, but I would like to hear more.

Quote:

W friendly lately, more so than before papers...but summon court date soon and who knows if the two are related. Last night I called her and she did something that she hadn't done before and I noticed immediately....her sharing about her stressful day/life and not essentially cutting me out was definitely something different...

Has she realized yet that the summons date conflicts with 5D schedule? Always a good sign that she is sharing with you.

I have not spoken to H since last Tue. I am supposed to call at least twice a week, consistently. I have been 98% of the time but last week I called only once and this week I have yet to call. At times I feel as if I am doing more harm than good. I have run out of things to talk to him about and ideas for things to do. I fear that our conversations and time together are becoming routine, boring and sometimes even forced. I want our interactions to not only be positive but enjoyable for him. Apart from being cheery and making jokes as often as I can I don't know how to be that person that he wants to build a connection with. For now the spark it gone and I'm stuck here without my matches.

He is also continuing to call me his X and all his new friends don't even know that he is married. My local therapist told me to do more things for me and to ask 10 guys what his motivation is to calling me his X, denying my existence, but not yet filing papers even though I have told him I have let go. Thoughts guys?

Quote:

So is this in comparison to us "driving" and investing in the M while they take a break?

I at the time was asking about D papers, but we ended up talking about it more generally...like if she is not calling I shouldn't call. She's not inviting me, so I shouldn't invite her...that sort of thing. But that is when DB coach said "no, it's like you take over driving while she rests awhile and then let her drive again when she is ready." That's why I had the courage to call her a couple times for small reasons. She ended up sharing stuff about work both times. It's small but who knows. She did slip during a VM the other day and said at the end, "gotta go, Love you, (caught herself) no, (and then softly many seconds later), no sorry." So who knows, my point is that everyone once in awhile, like your peck, you do something, like take over driving until you get your clue to let them steer again.

sent her this email, "if you would like, transfer as much money as necessary for your blah blah bill."

short and sweet...didn't mention other debt or reasons why or fears that she may have, concerns, whatever, just put it out there for her. If nothing else, it is mysterious...puts all of those whys in her head. Maybe, she will come up with one that puts me in a good light. Maybe, it doesn't matter...

who knows...

Quote:

He is also continuing to call me his X and all his new friends don't even know that he is married. My local therapist told me to do more things for me and to ask 10 guys what his motivation is to calling me his X, denying my existence, but not yet filing papers even though I have told him I have let go. Thoughts guys?

I don't know if I would ask the ten guys, unless they are just completely different people than he would know. Even then, I think you get 10 answers. I imagine most of the WA's would say something similar. Mine probably says she is getting a D or is D'd. Perhaps, we think more about it than they do. Part of this whole mess is acceptance. We don't. But they long accepted it. So, my thought is that they may not even be thinking when they say it. Just 2 cents worth probably less...lol

gl2u

Hi, HOPEFUL.

SallyM has a thread in Piecing wondering what a session with Michele was like. Perhaps you could share your experience with her?

Thanks. $\:\)$

meeting with michele?

HiC-

I don't know what my W calls me. I just bet it isn't good. I know she doesn't call me her husband and she considered herself D'd the day she gave me papers. I too believe my W denies my existence. I believe she does it for 2 main reasons. 1) She wants to be available for other guys so there is no reason for them to even know about me and get scared away. 2) She doesn't have to deal with the ruined relationship (failure) and eliminates any sadness by not even thinking about it.

I would call you my X to let others know I am done with you and to show my availability. By not filing papers, I would be hanging on to feelings and thoughts that I might be throwing something away. That's just my perspective.

Quote:

He is also continuing to call me his X and all his new friends don't even know that he is married. My local therapist told me to do more things for me and to ask 10 guys what his motivation is to calling me his X, denying my existence, but not yet filing papers even though I have told him I have let go. Thoughts guys?

thought I'd add HiC...if he called you anything else, then what would that mean? Suppose my W referred to me in this way, which I don't even know how she refers to me, just theorizing...if she started saying something to the contrary she would be telling the world a change of heart. So, I'd take it both ways as I've stated. 1) no other way to say it. 2) almost habit - I imagine they don't think much about saying it. Remember it's there choice, so they are probably not thinking about it at all when they say it. 3) saying something different would be telling the wrong people their change of heart - I'd just imagine the spouse would be the first to hear something like lets try...

more 2cents or less of thought -

gl2u

JMW and JAW,

Thank you guys for your input. I know I can always count on you.

A friend of mine was kind enough to point out that I said it a few times myself when I was the WAW. At the time I didn't realize how disrespectful and hurtful it was at the time. At the same time I wasn't ready to be done with him and our M. So I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. I tell ya I am so ashamed of my behavior and I didn't even realize what I was doing or the impact up until now, having to experience from the other end. It is a humbling experience and I pray everyday for his and the Lord's forgiveness.

HiC -

Your last post makes me smile. I would love to hear that from my WAW. For my W to say, "I realize how hurtful all this was to you and I am so ashamed of my behavior. I am so sorry and hope that you can forgive me." I can see myself just grabbing her, hugging her as she cries, and me telling her that all is forgiven. Someday, I just know it, we will all get to this point. No matter what, we have to envision this and make it so. Keep at it HiC, you can do this. One day at a time...

Originally Posted By: jaw3149

HiC -

Your last post makes me smile. I would love to hear that from my WAW. For my W to say, "I realize how hurtful all this was to you and I am so ashamed of my behavior. I am so sorry and hope that you can forgive me."

I really hope this for you. If she is anything like I was she really doesn't know how badly she is hurting you, but nevertheless she is, there is no excuse and I apologize for that. I just want to shake her and others like her. I am sorry to have once been part of that group and that you have to go through this. Thanks again for your support.

Not sure mine holds that shameful/apologetic/hurtful remorse...but time will tell...I did well last night, maybe to well...

gl2uall

posted it in journal...gl2u

The latest,

I spoke with H on Saturday after a brief conversation two days before at which time he asked me to watch the dog while he went out of town with his "girl friend" and several ship buddies and their wives/girlfriends. I told him during this conversation that I had my weekend planned, but if anything changed I would let him know. Again he asked me to pay a bill.

Saturday- I let him know that I could not watch her. I spent the rest of the night avoiding confrontation as he told me
1. I should not have gone out of town without calling him about the weekend.
2. To call my sisters and Mom to watch the dog.
3. He was going to leave our little yorkie for TWO days (with only a bowl of dry food, stale water and no way to use the restroom or get exercise) unless I figured it out.

I told him I would if I could but I couldn't. I suppose he hasn't heard of pet hotels, but I couldn't tell him or then I would be sending him some crazy message that he was unintelligent or something equally crazy.

Tues- Called him to talk about everyday matters. How was the weekend, anything new, how was vegas, is the dog still alive (I tried to make a joke of the sitch and asked if she had chewed off her leg blah blah blah (thx jmw).
He told me that he had duty on Saturday but no watch and that maybe we could have dinner sometime soon. I agreed and told him that I would see him soon.

Today- I spoke with my DB coach. We identified his possible motives as control and revenge. The plan is to eliminate his need to control the sitch and create a power struggle. I am going to do this by letting him know that "I get it" thus giving him one less reason to continue with the actions that are meant to show me that he is controlling the sitch and that he is done with our relationship. I also need to take more responsibility for my part of the bills to maitain my vested interest in the home.

I am on to plan a talk for the weekend that shows him I get it.

Wow, I am pretty sure my W has a "boyfriend". It drives me insane. It hurts me so much that after 7 years of marriage and 2 children she can jump into another relationship so fast. How do you keep on keeping on HiC?

I am impressed and would love to draw upon your strength! I honestly don't know if I can forgive her for what she is doing.

Originally Posted By: jaw3149

Wow, I am pretty sure my W has a "boyfriend". It drives me insane. It hurts me so much that after 7 years of marriage and 2 children she can jump into another relationship so fast. How do you keep on keeping on HiC?

I am impressed and would love to draw upon your strength! I honestly don't know if I can forgive her for what she is doing.

Thank you, but I will tell you a secret. You have that same strength. Believe me I had a lot of dark days at the start and I do from time to time. When I have those days there are a few things I do:
1. Detach.
2. Sep. my H as person from his actions (He isn't himself right now and I have the perspective of having been a WAW so I am able to understand what he is going through a bit better).
3. Remind myself of my goals and the marriage I am fighting for (Not the marriage we had, that marriage is dead and buried, but the marriage we can have. The marriage that is more loving and respectful than our marriage was previously even at it's best).
4. Journal and ask for advice here.
5. Call my DB coach. She is amazing at turning my frustration into solutions.

Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves. I spent years holding on to grudges and it affected me in ways I never recognized until now and most importantly it affected my marriage. Regardless of how things turn out I try everyday to forgive my H, for myself, and I encourage you to do the same. If you want your M to move forward forgiveness is a have to not should do.

Hang in there. I know you CAN do this $\:\)$

Quote:

Hang in there. I know you CAN do this

I know I can also, however, with her zipping to the D line, I just don't see how things will ever ever be.

Forgiveness will make you feel much differently about things. Like a peace - simply letting go of the anger, bitterness, and then honestly ask the Lord to forgive whatever they have done and furthermore, whatever you have done. I can honestly say I've never gotten angry over what my W has done to me. Just hurt. Daggers of pain in my back. But never irate angry. But it's the same...I have to forgive her, otherwise I'll never move forward w/ or w/o her. And that's the point, you have to move past it.

And as a warning, this legal junk, will muck your mind up. I really do love my W. But she is just off her rocker right now. And so, you do contrary to what you in your heart of hearts want to do. I've contemplated calling my MIL right before mine would get the mammoth surprise just to tell her, "just wanted you to know, that I am sorry for what has and what is about to happen, and that I love and will always will love your daughter, I just have no choice."

blah blah...your DB coach is great btw HiC...I hope I have a dollar to speak with her once this month. I could really use the input. I suppose that's what I get for burning 3 DB coaching in 2 week time, b/c of fault stuff. So, I just do as she told me then and use my much clearer instincts...

gl2u

HiC -

So true. I am fighting for the marriage I want, not the marriage I had. I am fighting for the woman I fell in love with, not the woman I see now. If I was faced with the choice of having my old marriage, it would be hard for me say no; but I would. If my wife wanted back and to take her as she is right now, I would say no. Both would be hard; but I want a new wonderful marriage and someone else who will make it their priority after God.

I will continue to give this everything I got. Until then, I expect you to do the same. I BELIEVE in you HiC. You can do this, if I can. I am sending you lots of godly love your way. Take care beautiful! (Just a compliment to let you know how much your PMA means to me!) $\:\)$

Originally Posted By: jaw3149

I will continue to give this everything I got. Until then, I expect you to do the same. I BELIEVE in you HiC. You can do this, if I can. I am sending you lots of godly love your way. Take care beautiful! (Just a compliment to let you know how much your PMA means to me!) $\:\)$

I have seen a change in your PMA and I am happy to see you get there. It really does give you/us all more staying power when we have a PMA although I admit I have had some occasional thoughts about the fact that I am not getting any younger and I am ready to settle down and start a family. As painful as this experience has been for me a lot of good has come out of it. I have learned a tremendous amount about myself and relationships. I do not think I would have learned it any other way and these are the lessons that the Lord has for me. You are in my prayers. Keep it up. Thank you for your support. Your PMA means more than I can express.

The latest:

Per my H's invitation I invited him to dinner downtown last Saturday. I thought, although it was still dinner, it would be a nice change of atmosphere from our boring part of town. I was hoping to go to the bar upstairs afterwards to have the talk my coach suggested since the restaurant was outrageously loud but he called the night short to do homework (yeah right, at 10pm).

I decided to have the talk in the car b/c I was leaving town on Monday and didn't want to wait another week plus to talk again in person. The following is the convo summarized.

1. I asked about the saving being cleared out and that I wasn't upset but just wanted to know that he took the money otherwise we should call the bank. He responded that it wasn't him who cleared it out (just like he didn't charge up the credit card).

2. I mentioned several of his actions (including that he tells a lot of people that knows he is/was married that he is divorced. His response was that he just didn't want to explain the situation and that we will be divorce but that it was a matter of paperwork)and asked if he was telling me that there was no relationship and was trying to erase all traces of me in his life. He responded that it wasn't that but that he was just trying to transition back to the single life. I told him that I got it.

3. I asked if he was trying to take revenge for me leaving him and if that was the case that I thought it was damaging at this point. No response.

4. I asked if he thought I would be a harm to him b/c people were getting that impression. His response was no.

5. I explained that I wanted to separate the car insurance and phone and set up an account that I would contribute to and he could use for the house (he asked again for me to pay for a bill, the home insurance). He again fought it like he did before by saying that he had no problem paying for it and didn't want me to struggle. I said that I thought he would want to keep things separate and to forward me the bills. He said he would like to keep things sep. and would forward me the bills.

I told him that I need to do some serious thinking but that I wanted clarification before making a decision about what to do next. He asked, "a decision about what? Our friendship?". I told him that I didn't know and he asked that I let him know. I told him that I would. According to my coach I would tell him that I am not ready to talk. Well he called once and texted a few times during my travel about misc. things that he needed for his CHP application. I missed the call and responded to all by text.

I just don't understand why he lies about anything and everything; half of which there is no reason to lie about.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Here is my dilemma:

I haven't contacted him in over a week except to respond to him. What do I do next. His friend is coming the last week of the month and he is leaving with him after a week to go to New York to visit the girl that visited during memorial day weekend and some other friends. He is also going to Greece for the fourth time without me at the end of July(3 of which were for a month, the last of which he turned into Mr. Hyde). We aren't making any progress and his visits with his friends seem to always set us back. With his trip to Greece just around the corner and the result from his last trip I am in a bit of a panic.

My other dilemma: An officer called about his backround investigation for the CHP. I am expected to return his phone call, but I have no idea what they will ask or how to respond.

Hello HiC..

Goodness... It's gone from 'chick flicks' to Bobo behavior.

For the CHP phone call, I'd call back and tell the truth. The truth as you know it, not what he tells.

What other people say is none of your business. You have no control over it. You can only control yourself and your actions. Walk tall, be proud. Be you!

What would you do if you weren't in the middle of all this and you found your savings account had been cleared out and your credit cards were charged up? That's how I'd be tempted to act "as if".

*hugs*

You have to get to the point where, "You know you are the BEST thing for him, he can't do better, and if he decides otherwise that he is losing out."

So, let him go on his trips. I heard a great quote once, "The person at home dreams of travel, the traveller dreams of home." He misses you, he will miss you while on his trip, and if he doesn't he's a fool.

With the CHP, tell the truth. What else can you do?

Finally, as soon as you (or I) are completely over our spouses, that is when they will want us back. Let's just hope we are still in the DB mode.

Gypsy and Jaw,

Thanks for the advice. He can go on his trips but I certainly will not be there to watch the house and pay the bills for a house I was kicked out of. My coach said it is a common misconception with DBing that we must ALWAYS make the WAS happy and be a doormat. This makes sense. Being a doormat isn't attractive.

Jaw

Originally Posted By: jaw3149

Finally, as soon as you (or I) are completely over our spouses, that is when they will want us back. Let's just hope we are still in the DB mode.

You are absolutely right. It wasn't until he was completely over me that the "fog" lifted for me. It feels like Deja vu. This past year beginning in September '07 (when he dropped the bomb) is replaying like the year before beginning September '06 (when I dropped the bomb).

I am at the point where I am moving on. I will continue to work on myself, pray for my marriage, and DB but I have to let go and let God.

Originally Posted By: jaw3149

You have to get to the point where, "You know you are the BEST thing for him, he can't do better, and if he decides otherwise that he is losing out."

That sounds great. If you look at my thread, FG had me make this list that I carry in my wallet now and look at it, reminding me of who is Under the Surface, and on the other side, Who I Was.

It's an instant boost of confidence which centers me, instead of being strung out over everything.

Hey, buddy.. life doesn't get any better than being with your Gypsy... oh yeah.. sing it, baby! uh huh!

*hugs*

The CHP officer called me for a second time. I was hoping to talk to my DB coach before calling him back but I wasn't able to get an appointment for a week.

I called the officer back and said only good things about my H and that I supported his decision 100%. When the officer asked if our seperation was cordial I responded that it was a matter of opinion but did not elaborate.

I haven't seen or spoken to H in two weeks. I received one text yesterday telling me that someone had called for me. This was the first in a week and I did not respond.

Things have gone from good to bad. Our friendship and contact is non-existent at this point. Where to go from here? I still have hope, but I wonder if it isn't all in vain.

HiC -

Keep hoping and praying. Most days that's all any of us have to hang on to. I think you are doing just fine. What ELSE can you do? He has to miss you and want you back. Without that, we can't force them to do anything. Think back to when you were the WAW and try to remember what turned you back to him. I bet it had nothing to do with him and more to do with you, your changes, and your thoughts. Stay strong and try to absorb some of my PMA. Things WILL work out, maybe not as we have planned, but for the better. I see good things for you HiC. I really do! $\:\)$

hey HIC~ I know sometimes it's hard to keep your chin up...but I hope and pray you are doing just that. I can understand and relate with your frustrations. I feel as if I am in the same place.

take care of yourself.
hugs
christa

He is back to treating me like a friend. He will be leaving at the end of the month for Greece and of course expects that I will watch the house, the dog, and pay the house bills on top of my own. Our mortgage also went up which he expects that I help out with b/c he will not have the money to do so even with his allowance from the Navy. Then he gets out in September with no job until the CHP academy and will probably expect me to pay the entire mortgage which is my entire monthly pay. He can't afford to pay bills yet he is constantly jet setting.

I took the step and applied for legal separation b/c he has depleted our savings and has me contemplating bankruptcy due to the 5-digit debt he has racked up.

How do I salvage the friendship that we have built while at the same time drawing boundries. I can no longer afford to contribute to bills, watch the house or the dog at the drop of a hat or do other misc favors a wife would do such (i.e. arranging pool cleaning, calling the mortgage company about our increased rate (when he has access to all the information and documents), etc.)

I think that the gravity of his decision will hit him in the weeks and months to come when I stop being a doormat, stop being financially and physically available, and the one to always get things done.

That is always the hardest thing. You are doing the only thing I know to do....

Set boundaries with consequences, be kind but firm, and leave the door as open as you can. Compared to women's timeframes, I find men to be s l o w to realize their consequences and come around. Slow but -fairly- sure.

HIC~ Sorry your H has become more difficult. I am thinking of you...I've missed seeing you around here $\:\)$ Stay strong....I will be praying for you.

(((HIC)))

christa

HiC -

I too am sorry that your H is being such a butthead. It is good to see you back on here. You have been in my thoughts and prayers.

Christa and Jaw,

Thanks for stopping by. I continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

I filed for separation last week and had him served this weekend. He wrote me yesterday to asked why I had filed for legal sep. as opposed to divorce and that he would not sign it. He went on to explain that I was creating more work for him. I don't know where he is getting his legal advice and he obviously didn't read the papers or he would have know that he can request a D in his response, that I am not creating more but less work (I did his dirty work for him), and that he has to sign it or the case will proceed without him. Here he is calling me to help him divorce me. I told him to talk to legal and I was not going to help him divorce me.

I think he is in for a big big big reality check when the effects of me no longer contributing financially hit his wallet and when he has to stand on his own two feet. I can no longer play mommy and assist him everytime he has a problem.

Our talk following his email was surprisingly friendly and matter of fact. I see the potential for things to get ugly but "I" am certainly trying my hardest to avoid any ugliness.

In the past few months I believe God has put people in my life that have been in my sitch and describe their second spouse as the person "they just knew" from the moment they met was the right one. I think he is telling me it's ok but it still hurts like heck.

I in no way think this is the case for everyone and I encourage everyone to keep fighting. I am still standing for my marriage.

HIC~ You sound good....are you? I am happy to see you back around these parts...I have missed you.

I am still in the exact same spot as I was. DAM...H has no clue what he wants to do...so we fight about the pool! LOL....you know, you have been there, done that!

Take care of yourself HIC, If God is walking with us, who could ever be against us...

hugs chica
christa

Hi Christa,

I'm a bit of everything. Somedays I am optimistic and happy others hopeless and depressed but the happy days are slowly outnumbering the bad. The sitch of course is still frustrating. And while I am not sure what God has in store for me regarding my love life he has certainly put some amazing people in my life, you included.

The pool....yeah been there...lol!

Everytime I am ready to give up H slightly changes his behavior. He has been calling me his wife, not to anyone, just in our personal conversations. He also will never say he is "done" anymore or that he wants a D. He is also stalling on the paperwork and discussion of division of assets/debt saying instead "we have plenty of time" to discuss these things and I will respond when I return from my trip. Keep in mind the deadline will have passed for him to respond with that he wants a D rather than leg. sep.

I have to catch up on your sitch. How are you?

hugs right back at ya girl!

Originally Posted By: HOPEFULinCALI

I encourage everyone to keep fighting. I am still standing for my marriage.

I am so glad to still see that! You are doing good. It sounds like the H might be having a turn around or change of heart.

Keep at it HiC and keep us posted. I have really missed hearing from you. I keep fighting the good fight, just like you!

The latest:

Not much new.

Jaw, thanks for sticking around.

I dropped off H for his trip to Greece on Wed. When I arrived at the house he told me I had mail. I knew that it was his response papers and that he had responded that he wanted a D.

First he stalled on filing the papers and now he is stalling on having any discussions regarding the separation of assets and debts. He wants a D but is holding me back and himself back from moving on. What gives?

I confronted the OW tonight by message and haven't gotten a response. I know it is not by DB rules, but he has been making a fool of me for too long. I believe that she has no idea he is married. I do not want revenge, that is the Lord's, but this EA is different than the others. They really seem to be building a relationship and not just flirting like all the others. I believe this is what I have to do to stand for my marriage. I am bracing for his reaction. I told him that I will forgive him for everything he has done without acknowledging that I knew about his many EA's and lies.

HIC~ just checking in on you! I know confronting OW not DB style...I at times want to do same thing too!

take care of yourself!

((HIC))

christa

Thanks Christa.

OW said that she had no idea and H told her, of course, that we were no longer married. She said she was mortified and that I had nothing to worry about, she was not dating my husband, and that, she would no longer be in our lives. She did however, contact H after our "talk". He called from Greece and asked why I did it and to call him back. He has a lot of nerve. I am not the one having an affair. So silly how he doesn't think that all his affairs are affairs at all b/c they are not intimate. I have no intention of calling him or having any contact with him from this point on. LRT is the plan. Although having had a role reversal this may not be effective I have nothing left to try.

Just checking in...it has been awhile. I'm sorry you have gotten to this point......saying a prayer.
LRT is a good plan right now.

How much free time do you have...and what do you do with it?

sg,

Yes, it has been awhile. Great to hear from you. I have run out of options so LRT and prayer seems to be my only hope right now.

My free time varies from week to week. I have been getting more involved at church. Today I start a new class at church and then another in a few weeks so I will be at church 3x a week. Other than that I try to keep myself busy. I don't do anything spectacular. I am stressed about money lately. Problem is I don't have any. I worked soooo hard at building our credit, savings, and net worth. I kept us out of debt and in fact we lived quite comfortably enjoying the luxuries of life and he has undone it all in the past year.

I spoke with my DB coach yesterday. The last time we spoke she came up with three options. I tried two options which had no effect. My last option is to move back in. I know he will not have a problem with this since he asked me to move back in at the end of November to take care of the house during his six months of CHP academy. It just so happens that my roomie is moving to another city and it isn't practical to move to another place for two months.

My coach said that this will be a good opportunity to give him something to miss when he leaves for the academy and also to see my 180. That is a 180 for ya. Last week I wanted no contact. This week I am moving back in. Well it makes sense, financially at least, to move back in since we own the house together and I need to protect my investment. My only hesitation is my pride for one after all he has done over the past year and for another I feel yet again I am being the one to lean on with no thanks in return.

Cross my fingers. This really is my "last resort".

I haven't seen any WAH on this board but I am curious to know if any of the guys could chime in on this one. I was listening to the radio this morning and the dj's were explaining how men and women were different in terms of what makes them fall in love. I have read the five love languages and I have done my best to appeal to his love language without success.

I would guess that things such as affection and affirmation would be a place to start but since my H is now the WAH and I was previously the WAW it seems as if this approach isn't the answer in this case. I have followed the DB rules and the advice of my coach but he doesn't seem any closer to wanting to reconcile.

Any ideas? How can I get his attention? Thanks!

Hopeful,

I have read your sitch but it has been a while. Made some responses but haven't heard back. Hope you will look them up when you have a chance.

If I am not mistaken, are you moving back in with him?

Originally Posted By: nothavingfun

I have read your sitch but it has been a while. Made some responses but haven't heard back. Hope you will look them up when you have a chance.

Do you mean that you made some responses to me? In my LRT thread?
Sorry I missed ya. I didn't put it on my watched list and forgot I had posted it. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I will take a look right now.

Quote:

If I am not mistaken, are you moving back in with him?

I am. This weekend or next. I still haven't had the conversation with him as he gets back from overseas on Thursday but I am 95% sure it will not be a problem. This is a great opportunity (and my last. The D will be final during his CHP Academy) for me to show my changes and spend more time with him.

Originally Posted By: nothavingfun

I have read your sitch but it has been a while. Made some responses but haven't heard back. Hope you will look them up when you have a chance.

Do you mean that you made some responses to me? In my LRT thread?
Sorry I missed ya. I didn't put it on my watched list and forgot I had posted it. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I will take a look right now.

Quote:

If I am not mistaken, are you moving back in with him?

I am. This weekend or next. I still haven't had the conversation with him as he gets back from overseas on Thursday but I am 95% sure it will not be a problem. This is a great opportunity (and my last. The D will be final during his CHP Academy) for me to show my changes and spend more time with him.

If you are moving back, you are miles ahead of many.

You want to know what you can do to build your attraction from him.

For me, it has been the chase. The person I want, wants me to move on. The more I try to LRT, the weaker I feel. I GAL but come home feeling lower. I miss her in my life very much. And I find myself giving in and emailing her (against all recomendations of any book I have read) But I can't get my heart to listen to my head.

Men are, for the most part, straight forward. Ask him what he needs.

Women like to believe we can read minds and understand all the body language you use. WE DON'T! Even if we do, we get upset that you don't speak directly.

If you are on talking terms and working through this, do a "sit down" Make a list. Draw charts and have weekly or bi-weekly sit downs and map out each others progress. Trying to keep it all together in your head is too much.

Is the OW truly out of the pic now?

nothavingfun,

Thank you! I have some things to think about.

OW? Well it is is EA after EA after EA (BTW-The are all out of state or out of the country). He flirts for a while then moves on to another. This last one has me scared I have to admit. It seems as if he really wants a relationship with this one and she has taken the bait. She is 21 for goodness sake and lives on the other side of the country. We are in California and she is in NY. I just have to take this opportunity to show him I am the better option. I KNOW I am. I just wish he could see it.

I responded to your questions in my LRT thread but I am also going to start a thread here too. I think it will be beneficial to have a thread for questions and answers.

Thank you hopeful. I read it on both threads.

Guys like to flirt. Women do too $\:\)$ It is human nature.

It depends on how far they are willing to take it. Me, I could not picture myself looking in the mirror the next morning without feeling shame for the hour of pleasure I might have. (yes I said an hour :)) Another thing I have seen in those who have cheated, it does not matter where it happened, next door or another country, it always seems to find its way home. My wife was 1200 miles away and I found out. Another reason I won't ever take that chance.

You have a tough situation in that. I don't know your husband.

Originally Posted By: nothavingfun

Guys like to flirt.

Don't I know it. I can flirt with the best of them but I don't and H takes it to another level.
Sexual in nature H telling them how he wants to be with them.

Quote:

(yes I said an hour :))

LMAO $;\)$

Quote:

I don't know your husband.

Neither do I. A year ago I would have said never in a million years but here we are.
But he should know me well enough to know that I can read his behavior like a book. I still know him well enough that he can't hide anything from me. It's insulting that he even tries.

quote]

Quote:

But he should know me well enough to know that I can read his behavior like a book. I still know him well enough that he can't hide anything from me. It's insulting that he even tries.

[/quote]

Have you told him?

At the beginning I told him word for word what he said but he would continue to deny or make up some silly excuse. Once I realized that it wasn't going to make a difference I stopped.

That is a tough one.

I hate to run but the weather is so nice today and I know that wont last long before it snows so I have to take a ride on my cycle.

Hopeful- I want to be strong. Have to be strong and hope I can get longer than 2 weeks on my lrt. I hope you will be thinking of me and wishing me luck. I need a boatload.

nothavingfun

Snow. Yes I have heard of it.

I know it gets tough. I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing yourself to be sad once in a while, very once in a while, but use it to give you resolve to keep it up.

!!!I am wishing you all the luck in the world!!!

Hey Hopeful

Just wanted to check in on you.

Me, not having a great day. Really missing. Finding it hard to follow my own advice and what I know I need to do. Stupid heart!

Have a couple dates lined up but not really looking forward to them. Finding myself thinking about the one I really care for.

Did get a little boost yesturday. As you may remember, I am divorced but have come back because of the person I lost after. Well, the 21st would have been my ten year Anniversary. I didn't email the ex like I have in the past. I waited and did it yesturday. Just told her I thought of her. So replied right away and said she was so sad that I didn't contact her on the 21st and she was thinking about me too.

We actually had a talk this summer and I told her what I was going through with the new exgf. I asked her if she still thinks about me and she said everyday. I can only hope that my new ex is doing the same. I know I haven't given her enough time to breathe.

I am hoping though that with all the persuing I did, she will still get curious after a few of weeks of pure no contact. I sure hope the experts are right on that one.

My biggest fear-like everyone else who has pursued-is that I wonder if she is just going to be relieved or make her wonder. We have no reason to be in contact....no kids so I do fear it.

J

Nothavingfun,

I am sorry you are not having a good day. I was wondering how you have been?

You are still in touch with your XW? And she thinks about you everyday? How do you feel about that?

In the Q&A thread Christa and I both agreed that we were initially relieved but soon discovered that we had made a mistake for different reasons but triggered by our spouses halt to pursuing. I understand your fear. H and I have no children either and little reason to be in contact. Have you tried inviting her to something non-date like; something you plan on doing regardless of if she accepts. It should also be spontaneous, fun and your tone lighthearted.

Hi friend!! Just stopping by.... $\:D$ hope you have a great weekend!!

hugs
christa

Originally Posted By: HOPEFULinCALI

Nothavingfun,

You are still in touch with your XW? And she thinks about you everyday? How do you feel about that? .

I guess to be honest, there are some mixed emotions. I still run into her friends. Some were aquantinces of mine before we met but not the reason we met. Most of our exchanges are pretty light. The " How you doings" "How are my dogs" things like that.

I wrote her an email a while back about what I was going through with nxgf. Trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Why was I always being the one left behind. What was I doing so wrong that women I loved could love me so much and then didn't want to be with me no more?

Never really got any hard answers like you are abusive or condesending, too head-strong. You know something you could wrap your head around and understand. It was, you were a wonderful man, a great husband but I needed something more or different. She also told me she thought about (after the d) if we could have made it work but her answer was no. She couldn't see the changes being made that she needed. She has also admitted I have made them. HA HA.

Anyway, there must be some truth to it because I ran into her best friend last night and she said, she hasn't seen my ex in a couple of years and that she has really changed. This has happened with a few of her friends. (I got the impression, that it wasn't for the good according to how they felt)

I would have never left my wife. Would have continued to try and be the best husband I could for her. But I did find a stronger love after. Maybe because I didn't think I would put myself in that situation again to be kicked in the ----. It took a little while for me to let my gard down too. Not that I didn't have strong feelings, just limited showing them all the time.

Originally Posted By: HOPEFULinCALI

Nothavingfun,
Have you tried inviting her to something non-date like; something you plan on doing regardless of if she accepts. It should also be spontaneous, fun and your tone lighthearted.

I've tried a few times with that. Text her and told her I was taking the cycle out for a ride up in her area and she was more than welcome to join me. Most times she didn't respond. If she did, it just usually said, "have fun". She loved the motorcycle too and hoped that would be the hook.

You know the guys on here see you and cookie, bridge, christa, as white robed wonders. I agree :).

Not having fun~

"You know the guys on here see you and cookie, bridge, christa, as white robed wonders. I agree :)"

What a great compliment! Thank you. I do not feel like a "white robed wonder!!!"

If you would please call my H...and let him know your thoughts...that would be awesome $\:D$ LOL!!!!!!!! hehehe

take care of yourself
christa

HIC...sorry to jump in on your thread!!

(((((christa)))))))))
I'll call your H any time you need.

Hopeful,
I was thinking of another way you could handle the issue of flirting your H does. You say you have talked to him but it has done nothing. OK.

Now this is just a suggestion and you have to be able to make a little change too. You could tell him, -flirt all you want but you come home to me. That way, you are mentally accepting he is going to do it no matter what. He now has permission but knows the boundry. It also shows you are not going to let it bother you. I think if he knows he has permission, the thrill maybe wont be so stong. Its just a thought.

Oh and ((((hopeful))))) hugs to you too.

Nothavingfun,

Originally Posted By: nothavingfun

I've tried a few times with that. Text her and told her I was taking the cycle out for a ride up in her area and she was more than welcome to join me. Most times she didn't respond. If she did, it just usually said, "have fun". She loved the motorcycle too and hoped that would be the hook.

You know the guys on here see you and cookie, bridge, christa, as white robed wonders. I agree :).

What about calling her as opposing to texting her. A text is easy to ignore. By calling her you can show your enthusiasm and that you are doing well.

I echo Christa's comments. I don't think of myself as a white wonder; just trying to help. I understand it is an awful struggle to be in the dark as to what the WAS is thinking/feeling. Thank you $\:\)$

I am going to give some serious thought about your suggestion. The only way he will stop the EA's is if they stop becoming fun.

Hugs and enjoy the long weekend!

Christa,

Always wonderful to hear from you. Thanks for stopping by. Have a great weekend!

HIC~ enjoy yourself this weekend as well $\:\)$ I am already studying for midterms....yuck!!! LOL

christa