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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
22 minutes ago
I will.

So now that W knows that Iím letting her go and am not going to hold her back. And Iím completely detached but still willing to work on it. This is the perfect setup for DB correct? Because I am truly ok with whatever the outcome.
6 128 Read More
For Newcomers
38 minutes ago
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
So I sent over email with proposals for co-parenting plan,

Recieved an immediate mail back:

Her: this is for co-parenting, I want a parallel parenting plan as I want as little contact with you as possible, I will get some advice on this and what you have suggested.
You don't seem to take into account that you have been abusive or the impact that has had on me.
This makes me think you don't believe you have been.

Me: it was not my intention to minimise any harm on my part.
I will look at examples of parallel parenting plans and if you could send over what you were thinking of.
Sent a link - is this article relatable to how you see parallel parenting?

So now, I feel really stuck, despite some reasonable communication over the kids, she is ramping up the emotional abuse claims, I fully accept my behaviour in the past has been damaging to the relationship, zero accountability on her part.
What do i do, continue to validate, pull back from any contact, I can't even challenge this narrative,
And sickened she sees me this way.
94 1,381 Read More
For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Yes I think I should stop doing that. Strangely comforting to know that others do it too!

Woke up a little sad and frustrated this morning. Thought about how much I really want everything to work; how I am sad that W simply gave up and that she didn't want to even try MC or piecing for a few months; how frustrated I am that she's stubbornly going through with D because everyone in her circle has said it's what she should do. She has taken the "easy option" (her words).

My view is that if there are problems in a marriage we shouldn't run away unless there are obvious risks of actual physical danger (e.g. abuse), or where things have been going on for so long without change. I am sad that she didn't think to say, "OK, I'm really upset and hurt that you've done what you did, but you must be unhappy with something in your life for this to take place. What can we do about it?"

I still find it hard to understand how she could switch off all feelings for me and mention D within literally 24 hours. She has acted completely emotively and not had any period alone for reflection. She hysterically broadcast everything to lots of people all at once, and now I feel she can't go back and change her mind. I feel upset at that, but I guess what's happened is I've had time to work on myself without her knowledge. I've really changed - apologies for that excruciatingly cliched phrase there - and shaken a lot of emotional baggage off my mind.

I remember feeling upset when I updated her on my 2nd IC session and I mentioned that communication was an issue and she just said, "Hmmph...it's so American! All about feelings. What a load of rubbish!" I thought, 'thanks for your support.' Actually, being in the throes of NGS I didn't respond to that remark of hers; I was just hurt. But then I didn't know about DBing or boundaries etc at the time.

I want to tell her that everything 'good' I did in the marriage - all the hugs, kisses, emotional and financial support, cards, presents (for her 30th birthday I hired a Tesla Model S for the weekend - I remember the look on her face when it pulled up outside our house), my proposal to her, little surprises I arranged for our wedding, everything - was genuine. It was not out of guilt because of my affliction going on in the background for years. I honestly wanted to make her happy and be a good H. I know I can't tell her this as that is pursuing of the worst kind. I don't know if there will ever be a time when I can say all of that to her face.

I think my main love language is quality time - simply being near the person and feeling safe together - whereas hers was words of affirmation and also physical touch. How sad that I've only found this out now and can't bring this up.

I know my posts a week or so ago were very positive and upbeat. Just on a low ebb recently.
44 578 Read More
For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Do not move out, just don't. There is no victory in retreat. I cannot imagine a scenario where you moving out would be the right thing to do.

I am sure that she is right when she says she feels the pressure from you, so you have to back off, stay out of her hair, stop snooping (I know, easier said than done), and get on with improving you. Back off, relieve the pressure, ask her no questions and she'll tell you no lies. It is hard to believe, but the reality is that the affair drug is as powerful as cocaine or heroin. So for all intents and purposes, your wife is a drug addict. And I am not using the term as a figure of speech.

That being said, thou should not be a dick either. Let her sort herself out on her own timeline, but do not be a shoulder to cry on for her beau. Let her wallow in her own mess and let her clean it up. The trick is that she has to become aware of the mess, of the fact that she created the mess and that it is her job to clean up the mess. If she fails to realize either of these 3 points, she will cycle again.

You cannot do anything to speed up the process, but you sure as hell can do a lot to prolong it.
64 1,237 Read More
For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Hi SteveS

Quote
What I do know that I'm doing a terrible job of detachment; some days I feel like I'm making progress, other days I feel like it's a struggle to even get out of bed. But if there's one emotion I feel - and my therapist reminds me that it's very important to name your emotions - more than anything else, I'm embarrassed to say, is fear. I'm scared that I'll never even have the chance to show her the changes I've made. I'm scared that I'll never find someone I loved like her, and I'm scared that I'm too old to start over. I'm scared that I'll always have this heartache, stuck in a loop of beating myself up over all of the things I did wrong. And I feel like a fool for fighting, for wanting to work, for holding out hope when there's just nothing for that hope to be tied to.


I like many of us on here have been fighting with this. Some days i feel strong and confident, other days i have to run to the bathroom at work so nobody sees me crying. I too fear the same things you do. Will I ever meet someone that i can give my love to, and they will love me back? Will I ever get out of this nightmare?

I guess all we can do is keep standing and fighting for ourselves. Not fighting for our M or hoping to R with our wives. But REALLY getting out there and doing the best with what we've got. I know I'll be ok with or without her, it's just getting to that other side that I have trouble seeing- even though I know it is there. hang in there my friend- i'll be doing the same.
88 2,447 Read More
For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Glad you saw those posts. Which posts haven't you saw that might speak volumes to you??? This is a rhetorical question.


This is why it is extremely important to act on logic and not emotions. That is why it is important to take as much time as needed to make important decisions. But if you wait too long, you might miss a critical action that needed to be taken immediately.

You have two things going for you. One, you have a whole team of people here to support you. Two, you can do the work to understand the process better than W and be well prepared to response to her behavior with methods that have higher probability of working than if you we not here.

I wish you well during this most difficult time of your life. Just remember that you will come out the other end of this process as a whole new, better you.



R2C, I really appreciate your help as well as everyone else here that have chimed in to help out a complete stranger. I'm blown away that you would check up on me, my posts, and my whole sitch. There is good in this world, and for that I am grateful.

Just want to journal a bit...

I had just got back from one of my friends re-opening of her salon. It was nice, good food and a nice guided meditation of gratitude and self worth. At home, the W and S were lounging in front of the TV. The ambiance was nice- we like to keep it a bit dark with a few lamps on. I kissed my boy and said hi to the W. She mentioned there being some snacks that she made, I ate a little and hopped in the shower. It was almost 9pm which is right around our S bedtime, so we put him to bed and both of us headed to the MBR. She did her thing, I did mine. Not much talking as usual. I noticed the last couple nights before she goes to bed that she's texting someone- Im pretty sure it's the OW, probably wishing her goodnight. I say this because thats what I found in the text messages that uncovered her A. Anyway- nothing new except she's doing it in plain sight now. She's not hiding things anymore- maybe she figures,"Oh well he knows and I don't really care anymore." I find it disrespectful.

She falls asleep, and no longer wishes me a goodnight anymore. I'm getting used to it. The goodnight hugs and kisses faded away about a month and a half ago. Sometimes Ill say goodnight if I feel like it, tonight I didn't.

While i'm getting all my legal stuff in order- finding out about my rights as a father, parenting schedule, etc. I'm going to interact with my W as nicely as possible. I want to be a rock- no more getting excited, showing frustration, etc. Im going to keep it cool as a cucumber like I did when she was freaking out about me moving her stuff out into the guestroom. i also want to be the one leading the energy in the room. I notice when i'm nice- she's nice. I guess being nice is working- at least it's showing our son that mommy and daddy are happy so he feels some comfort. I'm going to keep doing that even though Sandi recommends keeping conversation short. I'm not going to try to hold on to the W through conversing, but if it makes my son more comfortable i'm going to play it cool and maintain some sort of normalcy in the house for my son's sake.

About splitting from this rental home- i'm going to take my time with this like you all suggested. Again making sure all my ducks are inline before I make any decisions. With my W being as disrespectful as she is, I am leaning towards cutting the rope. I just have to be sure im doing it right from a legal standpoint.
26 420 Read More
For Newcomers
7 hours ago
Thanks rooskers. I feel like I went over a year while living together where I wasn't getting much support. When we did talk during that year, it was mostly one-sided and my W rarely asked about me. Since about April I've reached out to friends who have been extremely supportive. It's a complete change of lifestyle now that I moved out, as I come home to an empty house now, but better than the pre-BD days where I felt essentially no support. And I'm much more capable of dealing with my emotions on my own.

The nightmares come and go. Lately I'm sure it's because my mind is on the upcoming mediation process. which leads to a lot of problem-solving obsessive thinking. But the dreams really throw me for a loop. Dreams of verbal fights, of my W with an OM, of being estranged from my kids, of my W taking me to court. Sometimes good dreams, about the good times we had. One big emotional spaghetti mess, and rather than try to sort it out I'm just trying to accept that it is there and push through it best as I can.
77 1,750 Read More
For Newcomers
8 hours ago
Oh geez Roo I feel for you brother. Have you got close friends where you are that you can pick up the phone and speak to them about these feelings?

Your daughter needs you and deserves you and you need to stay as strong as you can in even the most difficult times. You stick to that promise to your D buddy, ok.

If I ever make it to the US (always wanted to visit the best country in the world!), we'll go on that back country hike together mate.

Sending you a big man/bro hug and letting you know this time that someone across the other side of the world is with you and thinking of you bud.

Keep DBing and keep being the Lighthouse.

DS
17 392 Read More
For Newcomers
8 hours ago
Sunset how are you doing? I hope everything is going well.
54 1,841 Read More
For Newcomers
8 hours ago
Quote
WAH offered to bring some firewood over so the nice thing is still on


I hope he is doing it because he still cares for you.

The first time my XW was having an affair on me and wanted to leave she would do things for me because she said "I felt sorry for him." I guess I was just some poor pathetic abandoned puppy dog she was going to be nice to as she delivered me to the pound. She didn't do it because she cared she just thought I was pathetic.
81 1,008 Read More
For Newcomers
8 hours ago
DS glad you are able to put up boundaries. You must have had some positive influence in SS life because he feels safe coming to you with his problems. I know that doesn't help you out to much but you have had a huge influence in someone else's life.
6 143 Read More
For Newcomers
9 hours ago
Originally Posted by crdcheck
So, my attorney (who was reviewing the mediated agreement) said that this is pretty black and white - we aren't legally separated so all income is joint. But our mediation agreement is equitable (rather than equal). There are areas where she gave, areas where I gave.

From what I know, there is no mediation agreement which can leave you feeling like it was fair or equal. But plenty of agreements that are acceptable.

Originally Posted by crdcheck
Look, I'm angry that she is trying to pull this. I've made more then her, every year, consistently for 10 years, and she pushed me to keep going further - she was happy that I wasn't home if it brought in money. Within 30 days of my taking a haircut role that got me off the road, focused on our marriage, my family, she BDs me. And now wants to throw down over what is, in the long run, a small some of money? Part of me is angry. Well, a lot of me is angry. I get why she wants out, and I made a lot of mistakes. But this entitlement thing on her end... it's hypocritical and gross, especially when she's accused me anyone who wants alimony/support of being gross (I didn't ask for it, she put that out there nearly first-thing). She's a money-grubbing scum bag who just happens to have a nice background at the end of the day (sorry, venting here... just frustrated)

OK, good that you vented here. Keep it here. Anger won't get you anywhere.

Originally Posted by crdcheck
Having said that, the money involved won't matter in the long run, is [FAR] less than the cost of litigation. There is no logical reason to throw in the towel on the mediation for this. I'm fine to give up. But that seems like old me. The guy who says to himself "I don't want to rock the boat, she'll think I just care about money, it's her bonus after all" (while she's fine to ignore that I put a majority of the equity into all of our possessions, that she has more clothes/shoes/cars/etc. than me). I also just want out. I've slept great every night for weeks, until last night, after I got her note that said that she wasn't playing ball. I want to sign the papers and move on with my life.

I'll also add that, I would still like to get back together. No, not as we are, but as we could be. I don't want to sabotage that over a relatively small sum of money.

I guess my question to the group is, is what makes financial and personal-stress sense as or more important than what makes "dropping the rope" sense? To further clarify, if this was a business deal, I'd walk on principle ("drop the rope"). But do I want to lock into months (or longer) of battles where we both (plus D4) end up worse-off and our respective sins out to the world (D4)? It feels like an easy answer to me but I'm biased - I always want(ed) the easy way out. Help!

First of all, take all your hopes of reconciliation out of this particular decision. She got a bonus. You feel entitled to part of it. Your attorney agrees. But it would cost you more in litigation fees than the bonus amount in question. Yes, it [censored]. Your attorney may be able to help you strategize what to do next if there are options outside of litigation (but keep in mind that there is a profit motive there).

If you decide it isn't worth it, that doesn't mean you are caving in to NGS. You are making a conscious decision what's best for you.

There is a common misconception that the way around NGS is to start standing up for yourself all the time. It is not correct to frame every life decision this way. It's always good to question WHY you are making a particular decision, to make sure it is not NGS. You've already addressed it by asserting yourself and asking for what you wanted. Whether or not you got it, you stood up for yourself.

And quite frankly, I can say with 99.999% certainty that whatever you do in this particular situation will have no bearing on your R hopes.

Originally Posted by crdcheck
Also, W posted pics/video of D4 and what used to be our dog playing in the snow. Snow days from early 2019 were one of the two best memories I have of the past year and I really want to say that to her. It's a genuine feeling, no game about it. Tell me it's a bad idea...

It's a bad idea. You are angry with her, you want to reminisce, you want to reconcile... focus on your detachment and emotional balance so you can make decisions from a place of calmness.
93 1,446 Read More
For Newcomers
9 hours ago
That sounds really difficult and kudos to you for pushing through and coming clean. It is amazing how the body can hold onto all this trauma and how the pain comes through physically. Hope you can get some sleep tonight and forgive yourself.

You are becoming the best version of yourself-- honest, forthcoming, compassionate-- and as hard as that was to open up about a lie you've been holding onto for so many years, I'm sure it was really helpful for her to finally understand what happened. You gave her the gift of honesty and as difficult as that was for her to hear it sounds like she appreciates it and the new you that was willing to get through the pain and fear to be honest about it with her. Good for you.
16 1,032 Read More
Midlife Crisis
11 hours ago
Hi Gerda.

I agreed to let H keep his stuff here until July 2020 in exchange for higher life insurance. Thought that was a good exchange. But, it's suppose to be in the garage after the D, but the longer it gets delayed, the longer it will be here. I'm not that upset about it, well, not upset at all. just a bit irritated from time to time. And, it's too much stuff for me to move. It's A LOT!

What will I do with all the space? Probably just enjoy the feeling of having junk purged. LOL.
64 2,279 Read More
Midlife Crisis
13 hours ago
DON'T LET HIM SUCK YOU IN TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS. He won't hear you and you can't have a rational discussion with him in the state he's in. It just gets you all riled up for no purpose. Would you engage in a discussion like this with a schizophrenic or someone with Alzheimer's? No. And you have just about as much chance as getting through to him now.

Always ask yourself before you say something to him "Is saying this going to get me closer to my goal?" If not, just don't say it.

Saying "It wasn't my intention" is good. You can also say "I'm sorry you felt that way, it wasn't my intention."

And don't give him the satisfaction of your tears.

He's spewing and pushing buttons to try to get a reaction out of you. Don't give him the satisfaction. Stay calm cool and collected and act AS IF you don't give a flying fig.

(Note - I eventually trained my ex to text instead of call by phone calls "mysteriously" dropping when he'd spew. Then I trained him to email by responding to his texts with emails. Much less stressful that way.)

As for the kid handoffs - I didn't have to do them but is there some way you can arrange to always be on your way somewhere else that you have to hurry to when they occur? Like, he's dropping the kid at your house, you grab kid and say "Thanks, we're late for my class at the gym" and hustle into the car and leave? Or can you have a friend or family member present to short circuit the spew? (Preferably someone who won't join in the fight lol).
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:48 PM
Quote
"If you stay in your head, you're dead." It essentially means know when to leave all of your analytical BS at the door and let your training and discipline work instead of over thinking everything and distracting..... You need to make "training" as realistic as possible. So when you're reading or whatever, try to visualize realistically because your brain can't really discern whether we're actually doing something or just visualizing. Build good mental visualization habits.
21 377 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:46 PM
She texted that D15 needed a ride from where she was to dance, so she got her an uber. I told her I could have taken her, she said that's what she wanted to tell me :-/
9 178 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:36 PM
Sandi,

Do you think my W would be thinking the same? She is having an A with another woman. Does that matter?
50 972 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:34 PM
Thank you for those words R2C. I am usually a very private person, hence why I was reluctant in the beginning to share my life with a MC. It was very hard to post my story here but those words of encouragement hit home a lot more because they were directed at me versus another poster.
3 73 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:33 PM
Glad to see you posting to kbuenob. I believe we need more woman helping these guys.

Posting to others will also help you. It allows you to think about things without your emotional attachment. It then becomes easier to apply your own advise to your own sitch.

HUGS
15 292 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 08:57 PM
I also discovered this past weekend that w is listening to sermons from a church she used to attend before we met. The sermons are a step in the right direction I think. Just a year to 6 months ago she was cursing God for all the bad things He had done to her.

I know that I have to GAL and stop paying attention to all of these little signs. I have been living my own life I'm just wondering what reconnection is going to look like. I don't want to be so busy doing my own thing that I completely miss attempts at reconnection.
57 2,369 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 08:16 PM
Hi Caligirl,
Nice on the GAL time with the kids and keeping up the focus on GAL as you move forward. Nice that he set up the romantic date and opened up to his bad behavior in terms of how he's been portraying you-- I agree with the others that taking the high road is the way to go, you've been taking the high road all along and no reason to slip off. It is his responsibility to make amends and demonstrate to you that he's worth taking back, so let him come up with ways to deal with the problems he's made for you as a couple with family/"friends". I might even explicitly ask him what HE thinks in terms of how you should deal with them, given what he's sharing, or how he might deal with them?
75 2,200 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 08:04 PM
Thanks Caligirl! Not much to update-- things continue to be positive/friendly/fun. Friends in town this weekend with an S2 who is a little bit of a monster (super cute but I forgot how destructive 2 year old boys can be) and H and I had the opportunity to be on the same team, rather than letting stress get the better of us and take it out on the other person. We actually had a short conversation about it as we both felt the temperature start to rise, and then everything was fine.

No R talks, no late night sex situations, nothing exciting to report. I do notice more contact (he'll come right up beside me, touching, to get my help on a crossword puzzle) but I definitely feel he is like a skittish cat-- don't call it out or he'll run away. In fact sometimes he notices as it happens and backs away himself.

I had the opportunity for 15 straight minutes with his phone when he was out and I knew there was no chance he'd catch me. Maybe I shouldn't have done this but have really wanted the opportunity to see for myself if there was anything on his phone. Nothing-- no messaging apps, went through everything. He wiped his call log about three weeks ago, halfway through his last trip, so potentially there was contact then (as I've assumed); he also could just be deleting the messages/calls as they come in but my gut is that the EA is over (for now), though may be more because she walked away than he did.
74 1,683 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:50 PM
Hi Scout,
Sounds to me like you handled that situation well, not badly at all. You listened, you validated as needed, and he actually calmed down and opened up. The fact that he was thoughtful and acknowledged that he's acting in his own self-interest, not S1.5's, seems like a pretty big step on his part and a huge shift from the beginning of the conversation where he was just trying to justify his own sh**tty behavior because you were "being a bitch". (So cliche, by the way. Cue eyeball roll.) I know it has been hard for you to be calm in those situations and it sounds like you really did well, maybe you said something at the end that came from emotion but whatever. You learned something in the process (he acknowledged his selfishness) and use that to help you continue to detach.
You're amazing. Keep it up.
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