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Good Morning MG

I was wondering if H would not show again.


You bet!


2 for 2! You are hearing and seeing correctly.


For sure. H is doing anything, everything, to prolong from facing himself. Facing his pain/torment.

These anchor checks, H’s behaviour, well done on your part! You are nicely detached.

This is similar to my XW. She desperately reaches out to the kids. Calls, texts, one after the other, until the object of her attention finally calls her. The conversation between them is a nothing conversation. Nothing of significance. No care or concern from Mom regarding son/daughter’s life or school/work or whatever. No sharing of anything from her life; “oh, I just wanted to hear your voice”. (My one son is threatening to send her an audio file of him saying hi, as that is all she is ever after.) A minute or two, call over. Then radio silent for a few more months.

H is on his path. Which has nothing to do with you. You cannot speed him up. Any attempts would lead to prolonging his journey, or worse stalling him. You are wise with pressure free and letting him lead.

To that end, and with boundaries for you in mind, hold H accountable. Not entertaining his scheduling “conflicts”. No more proposing a different day. Demonstrating behaviour you won’t tolerate. Demonstrating behaviour you will. For example:

H: Can we talk this Saturday?
MG: Sure. Is there something specific? Nope, I’m busy. I can talk right now though.

That would likely garner:

H: err. I’m not free right now. How about xxx?

Reply:

MG: Nope. Not free then.


Words vs actions.

Put H on his heals. He can come to you when he is actually sincere and serious about conversing, instead of wasting your and his time.

Look at this past conversation between you and H. If that was someone other than H, you’d not be going along with it. Be kind and cordial. And don’t walk on eggshells.

Enjoy the day.

D

Good Morning T


Yes, I suspect you do.


How do you know it bothers your son? Does he talk about it? Mentioned it?


Are your feelings amplifying your vision of things?


Correct!

Although, what do you mean by “it”?


T, you cannot control XW. Or anyone. Only you. And there is lay your answer.


No.

So what to do?

I suspect son does speak with and confide in you about his disappointment with his Mom. Validate his feelings. And do not demonize his Mom.

Speak with son. Age appropriately. Speak of control. Speak of rights and choice. Mom controls her actions. She has the right/choice to attend or not.

And son has choice as well. He can tell her his feelings.

During your and son’s conversation, possibilities and probabilities will come up. What is the likely outcome of his mentioning his disappointment to Mom? Would she start to attend? Would son want her to attend in that manner? Or would he rather have her attend from a more sincere desire to be there?

Cannot control her.

It’s a difficult conversation/leading/gently steering. Kids do find acceptance though. Which starts with discussing their feelings. Rationalizing their feelings. After all, acceptance is emotional understanding.

Neither you nor son can control Mom being there. However, you both can control/endeavour to accept. To let go that which you cannot control. To influence, positively, if and when/where appropriate. To be better, not bitter.

Yes, tall order. And a worthy one.

My goodness, if I had gotten p!ssed off all the times XW did (or didn’t do) stuff… Gosh, I’d have had a stroke! Let go. Focus on you. Focus on what’s important. You and son!

Focus on being the best version of you. You allowing yourself to get riled up from XW’s shenanigans does not serve you.

Son, focus on football. On practice. On doing his best. Regardless of who’s watching. And focus on being a kids. Have fun! Enjoying the games. Focusing on why his is doing it. The real reason. Happiness comes from within.

I suspect son is not yet ready to tell Mom his feelings. He cannot dare risk losing her, yet. In time, he will grow. In time, he will speak up to her.

Acknowledge son. Listen to son. Tell him you understand and love him. Absolutely love him! Continue being the strong stable parent.

Have a great Sunday.

D

On 10/2:

Radio silence until 10/5:
H: Today might not be good
MG: No problem. Thanks for letting me know.
H: I'm hoping tomorrow but I might be going with X (a guy friend since HS) to Y town. I should find out today.
MG: I've got plans all day tomorrow. If today works, give me a call. Otherwise maybe another day.
H: Oh ok. I'll let you know

Hours later:
H: Today not going to work. Maybe during the week?

Radio silence....

Observations:
10/2 text - it's been a while since H referred to he and I as "we"
10/5's texts:
- expose his confusion and inner conflict "might not be good", "I'm hoping tomorrow but...", "Maybe during the week?"
- fear/avoidance (had plans with me but broke them; could make plans for next day but isn't sure if he has plans already)
- relieved that this weekend won't require him to face fears - "Oh ok."

I tried to keep the door open for future outreaches - providing kindness and no pressure. Would you agree?

I'm doing some reading and see H's actions as behavioral cycles that require a boundary. Could we be back to setting boundaries as this thread is titled? LOL

For 2.5 weeks, H asked how I was recovering until I told him I was 100% - May
For 1 week, H offered 'acts of service' at the house and I declined - June
For 7 weeks, H asked to come by the house to get belongings until I stopped responding to his texts - July/Aug
For 7 weeks, H stopped texting - Aug/Sept
H asked to 'talk' - once in early Aug and again this week (2 months later)

You all know that I don't ever really know how to behave / respond to H. So here I sit wondering if these behavioral cycles will continue until I stop responding (setting a boundary). Do I need to stop entertaining his requests to talk? Or should I be leaning in and keeping the door open? I've held true to not reaching out to him for anything since early May, a full 5 months and counting. Do I stop responding to 'talk requests'? If I respond to 10/5 request, what do I say?

Is it fair to assume he's still in deep replay and anchor checking? Is this controlling behavior and/or manipulation? That's what I hear.

I heard a video that referenced monstering as 'charming monster'. Basically, clarifying that 'monster' doesn't always spew if they know spewing won't be tolerated (H knows that I won't take disrespectful mouthing). Is H applying a charming monster - whatever that is? Charming and ignoring is how H would respond to mom's spewing. Am I onto something? Has H been monstering me all along with taking me to doctors? Hanging with me for hours until he had to do laundry? Breaking our plans because he has yardwork? Could this be his way of keeping the peace and not facing his issues?

Mentally, I'm in a stronger and better place. Unlike 6 months back, I write this with an interest of boundary setting so that I'm not taken advantage of rather than with an interest of getting H back (and fearful of his reaction). I love this for me. I will always be grateful for the handholding. I know I can stand on my own two feet and if H goes radio silent again, it really is his loss.

Church services this morning focused on the uniting of a married couple. It took everything I had to hold my tears. Really wish H would have heard today's service. He's going on a year now without attending.

In a couple hours, I'll be surrounded by laughter and joy with my kids. So looking forward to a work-free Sunday filled with the comfort of family.

Still sprinkling in days off to burn vacation time - taking two days this week and will fill them with a balance of me time and continued yardwork. Oh and pitch tomorrow night.

Have a great Sunday everyone.

Good Morning 2lt

It nice to see you pop in and sharing your rising above. At the start, one is just trying to survive their truly horrible time. And in time, one actually survives and thrives their situation; doing their inner work, becoming a better version of themselves.

I understand your pride in your kids. Congratulations! They have certainly reached some lofty goals. I hope they continue and work towards their aspirations.

And congrats on your relationship. Seven years! I found empty nesting to be, oddly, a welcomed stage of life. I suppose that indicates how comfortable and accepting one is, which I infer you are quite comfortable in your skin.

Hope you have a great weekend.

D

Yes, dating without waiting an adequate amount of time hasn't been easy. The new girl is great, but she does often make comments about wanting to spend more time together, or gets upset when I have to change plans due to custody issues. I know it's tough on her, but there's not much I can do about it. There's only 7 days in a week.

Thanks guys. Quick question, which I probably already know the answer to.

XW rarely attends any of our sons sporting events. It's been this way for years. Either she was working, stressed from working, tired from working, didn't want to have to chat with other parents, etc, etc. Meanwhile, in 8 years and literally hundreds of football games, wrestling tournaments, basketball games, etc, I've never missed any. Not a single one. She also never attends parent meetings, never does required volunteering, never sells tickets, etc. It's all me.

Anyway, he's had 5 football games in the last month, and she's attended zero. I know it bothers our son, especially when his friends/teammates have everyone on their family tree in attendance, and he has only me and sometimes my parents. Is this something I should mention to her? It pisses me off to no end that she puts work and her own hobbies (sleeping, drinking wine, shopping) over our son. I obviously can't do anything about it, but I'm so tempted to tell her how pathetic I, him, and everyone else thinks it is

So it has been a few more years since I have posted here. I have been working and raising my kids as best I can. My DD is a junior in college and got a scholarship in choir of all things. She is a very talented singer and musician. She aspires to be a high school music teacher and I am very proud of her. My DS is a senior in high school and has excelled academically to heights I never imagined. It’s looking like he will get a full ride to pretty much any school he chooses. Couldn’t be more proud. The ex and I have essentially been nothing more than business partners and nothing more. She has long since been over her midlife crisis and now she lives alone and just exists as far as I can tell. I wish the best for her and whatever she decides to do but I can’t have anything to do with her except for when dealing with the kids. My current wife and I have been married now for going on seven years! We are both looking forward to being empty nesters and moving out to the country. I truly thank everyone here for all the support throughout some of the toughest times in my life and encourage anyone that has found themselves in this horrible situation to read through others posts and learn from them that there is hope, there is life outside of the despair you may be feeling, and there are some amazing stories of rising above and beginning anew. Never give up and never give in.

Hey T. Injuries are frustrating. Softball and flag football did a number on me a few years back so I've taken to sparingly doing much more than basketball and some free weights these days. I hope you heal up quickly.

As is often the caution in these pages, enjoy the moment with the new lady in your life. I'm sure you've read past forums on the amount of time recommended between the Big D and another, serious relationship. As you and DnJ have suggested, you're still decompressing from that lengthy experience and tethered to XW through parenting. So, have fun, stay focused on yourself and being the best dad possible, and just enjoy the ride for a bit.

Hearing what XW commented to your mutual friends is unsurprising. They have to say those things to reassure themselves THEY were in the right....to reinforce that their decisions was right and their former spouse the sole cause of the D, especially when 1) hearing you're OK and 2) worrying you may be doing "better" than they are. It isn't a competition. Your lives on on separate paths now. You are the prize that got away!

Looking forward to the next update. Be well!

I think your response was spot on . Validating or acknowledging while keeping your emotions out of them takes time to learn how to perfect.

Thanks MamaG and DnJ,

I just went with "OK, thanks for letting me know"

Slowly learning ways to validate emotions or, in this case, acknowledge, without approval or disapproval of the underlying choices or actions.

We fared quite well with the hurricane, thanks for asking. Only little branches and leaves down. Our little subdivision is built on 8+ feet of fill above the original ground level. ~11 feet over sea level. There is a very narrow corridor a hurricane would have to travel to push flood surge to my home. Every other path means only wind danger.

Others I know in the towns around were flooded. D19's friend had their house flood with 1+ feet of water inside. Of course they live on the bay, ~4 feet over sea level, in a subdivision where everyone has a boat dock at their house!

Yesterday I set my playlist to random from all the albums on my Plex server (FYI my own media server) and got to introduce Blue Rodeo, a Canadian country rock band, to D17.

Hasn’t Hit Me Yet by Blue Rodeo from Five Days in July

Never thought this could happen
But somehow the feeling's gone
You got sick of the pattern
And I got lost in this song

Hey, hey, I guess it hasn't hit me yet
I fell through this crack and I kinda lost my head
I stand transfixed before this streetlight
Watching the snow fall on this cold December night

g

Grok

Always good to read back on some older threads. Not all stiches are the same but they all have so many of the same qualities to them . I think for myself I made changes a long time ago . Even within the last few years I would say most of my growth happened and stuck . The GAL I enjoy is traveling with my kids and my friends . I did a lot of this alone with them and if I’m being honest the trips I took alone without H were the ones I enjoyed the most. The chaos and tone he would bring was very off putting . I became very independent and just continued on with what I wanted to do and brought me happiness .I can look back and really only see the one thing I would change . I allowed myself to be comfortable and ignore being treating so poorly by my spouse and allowing bread crumbs and cake eating. But I do not know if I would even change that because it also taught me what I want and expect from H now . Reflection is a useful tool for me . I take quite a bit of time throughout my day. I am happy with my life and who I am . I feel like I went on the journey to find out who I am a long time ago . So either I am going to allow H to begin to repair or I am going to just move on alone . But no decision needs to be made today .

I really read over the post of questions that they wanted answered . For me it’s not as many . I did decide to ask H a few :

What are you doing or plan on doing in order for me to begin to trust you again ?

H - this is a tough one . You do not ask to look at my phone . You do not ask where I am . You ask me nothing. You do not want location put on my phone . So I try to give you as much information in small doses as I can . You haven’t even asked me not to see my friends but I’m taking a big step back from that too . I do my best to come home on time . You asked for consistent behavior and I know it will take time . I talk to my counselor about ways to improve myself and gain trust . Sometimes it’s hard because it’s not like you are walking around crying. You are just quiet so I let you be quiet and know I am just home if you need anything .

I did get hit with a return question from H. What makes you think I can’t do this ? My response was simple, maybe a bit defensive but simple . I never said u couldn’t then I asked the next question .

Why do you want to repair this marriage ?

H- I never want to live like that again . It was awful . The guilt ate me alive . You have no idea how much better I feel not living like that or knowing I never what to live like that again . It’s not only for us I am doing this . My children deserve a whole family . They learn from me how an H should treat a W. I’m embarrassed of what I have taught them . I also want to teach them you learn from your mistakes and show you are apologetic by new behavior.

Now he’s either got a really good counselor, been given some very powerful drugs or just full of it until I trust him again .

Good Morning g

Ensure to continue sending the alimony payments. You need a continuous paper trail.

As for her returning payments to offset/payback a debt she feels she owes on her van, that’s fine. Just like her requesting to hold back the next two months worth, that’s fine as well.

I’d answer her request regarding holding back November’s and December’s van payments with “No problem. Thanks for letting me know.”

True, she does not have to pay back the debt. I believe you mentioned that to her already. Yet, she feels she wants to. As said, that’s fine. For some reason paying back that debt is important to her.

D

Hi G! Hope you fared well with the hurricane.

If you feel like you need to acknowledge/respond, how about simply liking the message? No words. No emojis.

MG

Happy Thursday!

Simply having a plan to approach text and Sat, I felt better putting my head down last night. It's eye opening to me how H still has a hold of my emotions. It was immediate panic, relief (H finally reached out), confusion (why now?), fear (can I keep my cool until I leave 'talk'), excitement (will he propose coming home?), anxiety (is this when H reinforces that he's still leaning towards divorce).....and on and on. In the moment, I couldn't rationally think through 'plan' on my own. This....this is what I need to work on. Sigh.

Sat will likely consume me in thought until Saturday comes. I'm not even sure Sat will happen. H recommended 'talk' in August and then didn't show up to the house. I didn't question nor reach out to hound. Perhaps he expected that I would. My 180s feel great (to me) but as I reflect, I can't imagine what his mind is deducting in moments of clarity.

H: Can we talk this Saturday?
MG: Sure. Is there something specific?

I opted to not suggest a place/time bc I don't want to be 'stood up' and waste my time. If H doesn't reach back out between now and Sat, I will stay home and prep for Sunday family dinner. No harm, no foul. Again, I won't follow-up. Will just return to no contact. Sigh

I still haven't heard back from H (and may not) but suspect that H is expecting to meet at the house. I'll need to change that idea...restaurant certainly feels better. H won't decide when to leave convo (well, I suppose he still could in the midst of avoidance); I will. It feels good to have taken back control of myself.

Did some thinking about the 'why now?'. Perhaps going to Nephew's event on 10/14 has him uncertain about how I'll behave with his family? The townees? Fear - H's fears continue? We'll see.


I'd like to meet up simply so that I can listen to where H's head/heart are. Still, I don't expect that I will learn much. If the past repeats itself, H will talk about work and what H has done all summer (share about dog? AD?). I genuinely see this as another temp check. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised but have no expectations. I love that I've learned this - no expectations! I'll hope.

H is both humble and has an ego. It's so hard to explain and even wrap my head around it. I remember how arrogant H was when we met. I was so unattracted to the arrogance and H stopped showing up as an arrogant person - never gave it much thought. I re-met arrogant H at BD. Let's see how he shows up....

Funny how just earlier this week we talked about H having turned inward. Hope to see some of this.


Yup! I'm sure XW noticed. Of course, that's not why you enjoyed yourself. She must wonder what you're doing different to be happy....as she continues to seek happy. Good for you! Laugh and love. Life is just too short.


Woah - that's colder than I would enjoy. I'm cold at 15C. Perhaps I need some meat on these bones.

I continue to dedicate an hour or so each afternoon to trim bushes before our winter hits. For what it's worth, I'm learning that my winter definition sounds more like your summer temps. lol
I have gained appreciation for H and what he'd maintain in our yard in 2 or 3 afternoons. H would cover more ground each time. Physically, I need to spread it out more. Either way, it's getting done! I'm determined.

MG

As I mentioned before, XW has been sending me back each alimony payment and asked for it to be applied to the outstanding debt on her van. Debt that I had accepted as part of a 50/50 asset split.

I received the following yesterday:

"I would like to ask for a pause on paying it back during November and December for birthday and Christmas expenses. If I don’t use it I will pay it back to you with January’s installment.

I haven't replied yet. The phrasing as a request confuses me. It is hers by our agreement. To do with whatever she wants. There is no obligation to send it back to me. I have no expectations for it each month.

Is this a female style communication that I don't understand?

It doesn't bother me. I constructed several replies... None seemed quite right. Mabe just "OK"

g

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The solid and sound direction will allow me to sleep tonight. And now I think about where I can get myself a drink and fries. thanks for holding my hand again

Hi MG

I'm taking a break from cutting trees. Kind of thirsty.

Sat down for a drink and saw your post.


I'd respond in the same manner H reached out, I'm guessing text: "Sure. Let's meet at xxx restaurant at 3:00pm."


You have the door open a crack, and haven't firmly shut it yet. I'd not meet at home, choosing neutral ground. Also, you can just get up and leave if things go really sideways. And you're not inviting H to your home.


Some tips for the meet up (no particular order):

- Order a tea. I think you enjoy tea, personally I do not, I'd have a soft drink and maybe some fries. Its a mid-afternoon snack, with no expectations.

- No expectations. Keep those at zero. Who knows why H wants to talk. Go and find out.

- You don't have to answer anything. Remember, you didn't call/propose this meeting. Therefore you cannot be expected to have answers at the ready. You do not have any idea of the subject(s) or topic(s) H wishes to discuss.

- Utilize "I am listening." "I'll have to think about that before I can answer that." And such.

- Let H lead. You didn't call this meeting. Let H bring forward what he wishes to talk about. The less you say, the more you'll say. Don't fret over pauses in the conversation.

- Be the first to leave. When things are winding down (and you are finished your fries), thank H (if appropriate) and get up and leave.

- Go dutch. Pay your bill. Let H pay his.

- Be detached. Leave your emotions at home. You can cry, scream, punch, whatever, later.

- Do not agree to anything. Again, you need time to think about things. (And if it is business related, you will be running it passed your lawyer.)

- Know your boundaries. At a restaurant things are less likely to get boundary-worthy. Still, know what predetermined rational actions you take to unwanted disrespectful behavior and/or words. (No expectations of H stepping over such lines. Just being aware is all.)



Remember, H needs to walk his path. Allow him to. However, not at you health - mental, emotional, financial, or otherwise.

Stay strong my dear. You got this!

D

DnJ- I will read through your update in due time, but I have some news that I’d love your help with.

I know you’ve been along for the ride and you know this information but thought I’d recap before I begged for help

It’s been 20 months since BD. After 15 months, I stopped responding to his texts -5 months ago. Basically went no contact which was a shift since we had been talking a couple times a week. With adult children and living separately, it just made sense to stop playing part time wife and so I could heal.

There has been limited monstering since I’ve gone no contact (actually limited Monster for 15 months). And lots of touch and goes that I’ve not responded to via text.

5 months of no contact generated a text from him today. “Can we talk this Saturday?”

Pit in my stomach. Unsure what he is looking to cover. No idea what he did all summer. I don’t snoop to know of any AP. Regardless, I sit here trying to figure out how to answer. Timid. Unsettled.

Help. Do I engage in convo through text or just respond to question? It’s been so long.

Good Morning MG

I’m painting the outside trim of the windows. Working at getting finished before the weather turns.

I got the first coat of paint on. The next day the wind picked up! The following day even stronger winds; gusts 90km+. Far too windy to be on an extension ladder.

The particular window I’m working on is a second floor one. So with ladder leaning on the stone sill, I’m standing fifteen feet in the air tip-toed on the third rung from the top to reach the high part. Nothing to hang onto either. So, I put it off for a calmer day.

Well, the winds knocks down a tree across the driveway, and rips down a few in the yard. More work. Although less weather dependent.

Next day I wake up to 2C (35F). Brrrrr. Too cold for painting. Now I’m in goldilocks-land to get the painting finished.

Next day, things brighten up. 16C, breezy, from the west so house is blocking the winds. I get the second coat on. The other windows can wait until next year.

Snow, sometimes falls early October. November is more average. The winter temperature hits its lows in January/February, -30C/-40C. Even lower during the nasty storms.

The ground is usually frozen by the end of October. Many Halloween costumes are worn overtop snowsuits. lol.

As for accumulation. Feet of snow. Plenty of feet. The big storms dump/blow enough snow to bury everything. It is pretty common for a storm to drop a foot or so of snow and the wind to pile that up into some huge drifts. I’ve woken up to five feet pile into the driveway overnight. Takes a while to clear that!

So, with winter’s impending arrival, I’m turning my attention back to indoor projects. Outdoor-wise, I’ve got a final grass mowing likely and to clean up those aforementioned trees. And to get the vehicles winter-ready.


My thoughts.

You didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him.

You may be correct. H might attend with you, if you invited him along. However, he is a mess. Time and space. He needs to work through his issues. And that is a glacially slow process.

H has gone radio silent. Allow him his path/journey.

Daughter’s present time avoidance is more “normal”. Hopeful she transits it timely.


Bingo!

Hitting rock bottom is necessary. And there areso many distractions, internal and external, to allow folks to continue as they are.

Ego, pride, stubbornness. Lots to swallow. It takes a humbleness to admit, sincerely admit, to one’s pain and torment. Admit and submit. MLCer’s run from that. Fight that. And fighting begets fighting.


I’m weeks away from seven year anniversary from BD (Thanksgiving). XW and I have not had really any contact for those years.

Two (three?) years ago, a son’s wedding, bridal shower, social, etc; this year another son’s wedding announcement and social, etc. These events have placed XW and I in the same room/place/location a few times. Two years ago, I broke the ice with her. She did opened up and equated the kids’ success and happiness with/due to my influence and example. I told her she was an awesome Mom and raised awesome kids. This year, I let her lead. Her and I were in the same yard site over the weekend, in a dance hall, and she said nothing. Didn’t speak to two of the boys, spoke a bit to daughter, and a bit to the happily engaged couple. Didn’t engage much with others. And no dancing.

My weekend was different. I spoke and interacted with lots of people. Danced with lots of people. Helped with the fireworks, setting up the hall, cleaning up the hall, and so on. It was a good time! Good food, good people!

XW has to walk her path.

H has to walk his path.

Look at it less of holding out, and more of letting go. Allowing. Allowing H his choices. You living/loving your life.

Hope yesterday’s university trip went well. A bowl of hot soup, and hugs from Mom. I’m sure D felt good with that!

D

All the thoughts p2


Most of my adult life for sure...Met in 1998 on my first military assignment. To me it always seemed to be it was by the hand of God. For those who don’t know, much of the US military has an unofficial tradition of assigning a peer to new incoming personnel as their “sponsor.”

That day I heard the duty officer asking around “where is LT X? He’s the designated one for any incoming this week. We have a newbie at the gate. “ “Sir, he got called out for site Y’s issues. He won’t be back for like 16 hours “ “Well s*** @:&$;”

Also traditional, whoever is within arms reach of the person doing the assigning is going to get the duty.... Smart youngins try to be out of sight... I wasn't as smart at the time.

"Hey G! Drop what you have going and go get the new LT at the gate. You know the drill." This includes all the paperwork for various departments, helping set up appointments to meet various levels of command, organizational overview and introductions, AND you are expected to be the social facilitator to all the peers and their various social activities.

I go to the gate and realize the newbie is female. I like her shape 🙂. And over that day realized we have a lot in common. Huh...I'm expected to be her social coordinator for a while ... Built in dates ? I took her to first hang out with my friends...a married pair of LTs who in time were our best man and maid of honor.


It sits there in the dark. Inside. Her sun become a tiny black hole. Originally threatening to consume me. Now it is still there, muted and isolated from the rest of me... I chose to grow faster than it could consume. To detach and not provide it with anything to consume and grow. Perhaps it will extinguish one day as I process it bit by bit. Perhaps it will be there but not matter with a full and joy filled life.


I GET it. You give of yourself to become ONE. The death of that ONE is a form of loss of ones own self being. The discussion of co-dependance and self differentiation in marriage is put aside for another day.

There has been some form/sense of relief with the final signature. Still the actual asset division to finish. Lingering threads...


I have FAITH! And absorbed wisdom here ... There are no shortcuts. It will take the time it takes. Doing the work.


I take the meaning to heart. I didn't ask for this. I didn't want this. I, the MAN, am here though. I will embrance and own who and where I am.


Thanks MrP, I'm still working on balancing work, care for self, and time for the kids. I think this will be a continuous process 🙂 Feeling the loss...well... I let myself feel each day as I encounter parts where I would have had a wife to be part of it.


A side observation on hope and detachment. One thing snooping did accelerate for me was detaching. Because it removed hope. I could SEE her pledging herself to OM. It was True Love (TM). They were Twin Flames (TM). And many other 14 year old girl SQUEEEEE. From wisdom here and elsewhere...Limerence + PEA addiction meant that from some nebulous future NC it would be at least 18 months to go back to neutral. And still have to go through the stages of both the loss of marriage and loss of OM.



g

After I posted I realized that my phrasing could be confusing. Revised
***
This would apply to your H. Are the changes he is making, being made for you? or is he making them for himself, to be a better man, and they will stick whether you are there or not?
***
g

Caligirl, I was thinking a couple other things even before your reply...

Like the advice to the LBS -

your changes have to be for YOU, or they are not genuine and will not stick.

This would apply to your H. Are they being made for you? or for HIM and they will stick whether you are there or not?


... and in organizing my dozens of open DB tabs I found a reply and discussion from the perspective of a person who was in the fog. It may lend some perspective.


https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2463137#Post2463137

g

Grok

Thank you for the resource . H has been touching on many of the items on Sandis list . H is still very consistent. I just can’t even organize my thoughts of where a real starting point would be. Anything I throw at him he just does or anticipates and makes sure it’s not an issue . I find the hardest struggle for me is the insanity H went through in order begin to come to this place of change or peace . It was very destructive on me . I’m not the same person and have not been for a very long time now . I got very used to being alone a lot . Doing everything for me and the kids. Struggling to just hold all together for the family unit. H is really trying . I can see it and feel it whether I want to or not . He’s happy home . He can do and say all the right things but I’m never going to look at this man the same . It’s not even the affair . It’s the mental game he played for years on me . The countless times I asked for help . The times I was just being swallowed by quick sand and he got up and left . It turns my stomach to see how content he is home .

Hi DnJ!


Did you use the 's' word? Goodness, that's early for me to hear such a word. Did you end up with accumulation? Do you have heavy winters? I don't expect any until Dec at the earliest.

I'm not sure that I knew you were painting windows. I assume your home's windows...on the inside since it's snowing. Projects are never ending.

We play pitch again tonight. Let's see how we do. If nothing else, it's a nice night out that we both look forward to. Give it a try and lmk what you think. I've been playing for many years so it comes easy at this point and can help you with strategies.


Divorce is not common in our families so this will be interesting. For now, while I'm not close with most of his family, we celebrate EVERYTHING so I'll likely continue to be invited to bigger events. Not holidays so much as graduations, etc. I've already been told that I'm invited to our flower girl's wedding next year (his family). H's family hasn't seen much of H but they definitely think he's nuts to leave me and they are concerned with changes he's visibly made. Still, I recognize they can drop me at any point...especially if an AP is introduced. (No one knows about any AP - let's keep it that way.)

Knowing what I know about MLC, I'm leaning towards H may continue his avoidance behaviors and not attend at all. If I ask him to pick me up, I suspect he'd be open to it and would attend - much like taking me to dr appts. That doesn't make it the right idea. What are your thoughts? While I've considered texting H about going together (to ease his discomfort), I don't want to make the wrong move and therefore I haven't reached out. D has already decided that she won't attend which bums me out. I'm really seeing lots of avoidance behaviors in D. Concerning for sure.


I would even guess that H's ego and stubbornness will keep him away longer than he'd like. This here is what I'd like to not be true. H is a brilliant man - I wouldn't just say that - and I have all the confidence that he'll look inward and to your point, may have already begun to. That doesn't mean that he's willing to bruise his ego and return home. In time, it may have to be me who breaks the ice with SMART contact. For now, I'm holding out.

Spent the better part of the weekend with D and just learned that she is not feeling well - basically was asked to leave class today due to a cough. I took the day off tomorrow and will be playing nurse for my D. D requested soup, OJ and comforts of home. I'll be making the trip to the university tomorrow. Let's hope I don't come down with something.

D, BF, S and GF are coming for a chili charcuterie board lunch on Sunday - looking forward to the 5 of us. H isn't invited. Oh well.

MG