Interesting weekend / night... ran into WW at a club (we both like the same music and DJ) with OM. I was on my way to the bathroom, and saw her and said "hey". The rest of the night she hid and ran like a cockroach. I guess it's better than her flaunting it. I think they might have left early too. Oh well, not so bad when you expected the chance of this happening. I'm not going to stop what I enjoy.
Next week will be interesting Again, another data point / hot stove to help me move on.
I can only say I fully feel your frustration. It's that feeling of never really knowing where you stand, wanting to see a glimmer of hope and getting stuck in wondering what they are thinking, I catch myself being really hard on myself over thinking every interaction.
Did I do ok, have I blown it or set things back even further.
I'm guessing most of the vets would say continue with the picnic.
So I went out last night, trying hard to Gal and met some friends, also bumped into some shared friends of mine and wife who I hadn't seen in 10 years.
My wife's new best friend also appeared at same venue which made everything awkward. Said hi to her, not much more.
Son video called me this morning, Wife is in the background, obviously still angry with me. Messaged her to say I had seen old friends and that they had said to say hi.
Immediate message back "Please don't send messages from other friends to me"
I replied "Ok, noted"
Can't cope with this hatred and coldness some days. Get the real sense she is doubling down on her narrative of who and what I am, definitely being enabled by this friend.
Had discussed my sitch with a mate last night and he raised how his wife had raised how much time my wife is spending with new friend, my son has raised it too. Feel like she has actually replaced me with this friend and they are sitting in an echo chamber.
Been absolutely zero lowering of that drawbridge for 2 weeks now.
Thank you both for the advice. It didnít feel like the right thing to do - like some kind of blackmail. The real reason I donít want him in the house is that I still struggle to set aside my feelings and treat him the way I want to treat him, as a friend. But I canít say that.
H finally replied to my response about his Christmas schedule. There was no rage or blame, which is what I was afraid of. It was actually more respectful than usual. He said he had a good time with S1 on Thursday and dropped him off to daycare on time (late drop offs have been an issue recently). He asked if he could come move his car out of my garage at a time that was convenient to me. He didnít push back on my Christmas boundaries, but asked if we could compromise on pickup and drop off times for S1ís overnight away. He pointed out that it would work with S1ís nap times.
I was cordial in my reply, validated his feelings about S1, and agreed to his compromise. I thanked him for taking S1ís needs into consideration and for being proactive about the car.
I was out with S1 and friends seeing a play when H came to get the car yesterday. When I arrived home I found some of my things from the garage sitting on the driveway. They must have been blocking his car. I thought it was pretty inconsiderate to leave that stuff out where it could get stolen. He also left a bunch of his garden tools beside the garage that I asked him to please take to his new house. This has been a theme during the move-out process - he forgot to pack essential items like paperwork and his dadís tools, but took odd things like half of a salt and pepper set of kissing lovers that we used as a wedding cake topper. Itís unlike him to be forgetful and unorganised. He still hasnít returned the keys to the house either, which he said he would once the last of his stuff was out.
As for me: My anxiety has abated for now. I had a really fun day with friends yesterday. Enjoying prepping for Christmas. Received some great feedback at work last week. Hoping for a more peaceful week to come.
As with most things, a little time makes a big difference. I'm letting things settle in my mind while I enjoy the weekend with the kids
Somehow the four responses to my post yesterday, as different as they are, have really helped me clarify some things. Sometimes my response to these posts goes off in a completely different direction. It is part of the magic of this forum and I thank everyone who reads and posts.
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Focusing on the parenting is the right thing to do even with all the turmoil we feel about our MR bubbling underneath
Absolutely. As soon as I picked up my kids yesterday, I felt so much better. Things are going to be okay.
Originally Posted by LH19
The majority of the success stories are about people who come here lost and broken and leave here with new and improved relationship skills, health and purpose. You've come a long way in 8 months and I can tell with you the self improvement will never stop.
If you can ever get your anxiety in check there is no doubt you will lead an amazing life.
LH - Good to hear from you! I always appreciate the wisdom you provide. You have an amazing ability to distill your thoughts into a few well-chosen words.
You hit the nail on the head with anxiety.
Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Why take the bait, and play into the blame shame game with S7 behavior that XW's narrative is leading and controlling with counciling.
IHC - More thoughts on this below...
Originally Posted by IronWill
If I had one piece of advice, it would be to keep posting here. It is obviously helping you very much, even through the really down days.
Much like all of these situations, life is not lived on an even keel. It is all about peaks and troughs.
One other thing - when I am presented with challenging situations that I don't seem to have an answer to, I stop, breathe, re-focus, and then I ask myself this question:
"What am I supposed to be learning from this?"
I find it helps.
Stay strong, man
So... what am I supposed to be learning from this?
One problem is all along I've been hoping that during the 5 months of co-parenting sessions, things would calm down, we would start to work together, and at least make this separation more tolerable to give the time and space necessary for things to possibly trend towards R. That was a false path to pursue. I thought these sessions might eventually trend towards MC. That has not happened.
In the meantime, I have a custody and financial situation that is worse than a worst-case divorce settlement.
The only sensible path forward is to proceed with D. The remote chance of R is one several years down the road. I am not holding my breath, but it's the only way forward.
We've agreed to mediation. We also continue to go to the co-parenting coach, although I am going to stop pressing for that.
1. Mediation is where I need to stand up for myself. Co-parenting sessions are an opportunity to validate. They are not the same thing. I need to differentiate that in my head.
2. I am undecided on whether to continue with the co-parenting sessions. On the one hand, it may be the best path forward towards us co-parenting in a more peaceful way. On the other hand, trying to accomplish that during a D process may be extremely challenging, especially with my W bringing up allegations every session. Perhaps it would be more effective after we reach a settlement agreement.
3. I do *not* need to let the co-parenting session discussions trigger my fears about how the D process will go. I am choosing to take the bait.
4. I am choosing to worry about a D process when, no matter what happens, I cannot end up with a worse situation than I have now. I may not get what I think is fair or what I want, but I will be happier.
I have to get a little GAL update in... I hit 2 personal bests lifting in my garage last week. I'm in the best shape of my life, feeling great physically, feeling exhausted at night when I'm done.
Sounds like you've mastered the detaching... and he's going to need to really work to win you back. How are you feeling about him these days? Have you thought about what you would want in terms of a new MR with him?
Journal~ Today marks the 7th anniversary of a few things, one being my marriage. D3 and I did some volunteer work with friends, went to at a few places, shopping, treats, (bought myself flowers; never need a special occasion to do that..lol.. ), we washed the car together and are wrapping up the night with pizza & a movie. All good. It's not the first time without H, but it's the first time after BD, and it's a little sad. Kind of feels like he's gone. Mourning. My mother passed 7 years ago, before we got married. This sitch is right up there with her being gone. It gets easier, but always hurts. Eventually not as much.
Yesterday H brother/ my BIL text me, and ask when H was coming home; he hadn't heard from him in awhile. I replied, "keep trying..." gave BIL another option for contacting H, asked if everything was okay. BIL said he was just missing his big brother. I hope BIL keeps trying. He was with us last year for almost a month around this time of year, and totally recognized H wasn't himself. BIL & I talked about it and I asked BIL to talk to him. He did. I'm guessing H left out a few details. Who knows.
Another mutual friend that was passing through inquired about the return of H. "Haven't heard anything yet; lots of overtime is great actually. We've got bills to pay!." I try to laugh it off, and really I'm okay, as long as I know he's still working. And as far as I can tell from my sources, that are in plain sight, he's still at sea/work.
So, we're okay this week. Hope everyone else out there is doing okay. My reality has yet to really hit. I've got to get mentally prepared for our Turkey Trip to the in-laws. I still have no idea if H knows his dad bought him a ticket for Turkey Trip. Only time will tell.
Well IMHO, I think you have hurt her in a way she might move forward find the healing method,something as being advertised as the deal of a lifetme. I've seen similar posts to the ones your XW is currently writing. This is my only my opinion, so take it for what you thik it is worth.
Yes, you have caused her very deep. I'm talking about the kind she doen't get over. she may turn to other substances to get her though those painful days, but they don't work well for her She felt she was give as much that could when something else happened. She is not in love with this OM. Her main objective is hurt you as badly as you've hurt her. In the meantime, she going to play kissy-kiss with the OM. She is using him, and apparently it must be work. She uses him to smear in your face every chance she gets, and uses him for the glorification . If he dumps her, she go find OM 2. Unfortunately, there are women who want help with these other men, who can gave them a great show. Your W tries to thrown this in your fame. Every time an ad comes in her paper about job, she wants you know it. So, she'll drop pictures of herself to post social media. She'll find ways to praise OM, and bread crumbs for you, just to keep you attached.
This is could go on for years......or until you and your W get expert therapist who knows how to heel couple coming back from an A. I would suggest you call one of couches at MWD. I think you have hurt her very deeply, and at the moment she was the hurt...........she turns to OM, to get rid of the bad stuff and she saw him at free ticket. Therefore, since an ow seem so good for you...........Your W thinks, why shouldn't have her turn?
Even if you just called MWD office to get them to help you know how to handle this situation I agree with what your W said about feeling very confused. Although is sounds confused, I think she's still in love with you. But convincing her, is another matter.
I would like to know what picture comes to your mind whenever you read those two words, "tough love". When you ask me how you should treat her, I wonder if you see tough love as being mean, cold, angry, sullen, etc. It's none of those negative actions.
I see tough love as treating as if I know she's having an A. It's about trying to regain her respect. I Agree that's not mean, angry etc., but I'd be a little bit less happy cashier.
Can you see yourself implementing the 37 rules without feeling you have compromised your dignity, integrity, moral/spiritual beliefs? I've read thousands of posts that say these rules are so hard. The rules aren't hard, but due to the emotional feelings of the LBS, it becomes tough to stick by them. It's tough to follow directions or instructions when our feelings are trying to dictate our actions. It's tough to do something that seems so counter-intuitive. Do you feel these rules are unrealistic or don't apply to your situation? What about the page I sent you on DB detaching? (I think it was you) Have you been able to follow those guidelines? Some LBS's don't even try, b/c it is a measure of tough love. But I encourage you to start with the 37 rules, and the other guidelines (detaching, boundaries, etc.) Cadet posted. I don't recall any of them suggesting that the LBS mistreat the other spouse. It may not be to their particular liking.......but that's why we call it tough love.
The 37 rules, including GAL, detaching and 180s has been my major focus. The rules are absolutely realistic. One thing I need to get better at is understanding I will not see any results from my D-bing for a while, if at all.
I can usually spot a WW as soon as the H begins to tell the story about their MR. I've tried to get you to open up and give us more, if possible, than just her adoption issues. You compared your M to most other people's MR. You said the sex trailed off and life got busy with work and raising a family.........but I still don't know how the two of you interacted with each other. One reason I have tried to share with you as much as I have (without repeating things I posted in the WW threads) is to help you see who she is........or for you to see that it doesn't describe her. Make sense? This is why it helps to know which of you were nurtured the relationship more. Who was the dominate spouse in the bedroom. Who was the leader in the marriage/family, and who called the shots. Which of you were laid back, and who got offended the easiest? Who made the first move to make up after a fight? Did you feel she was rejecting you sexually, or were you making excuses about it? When you had sex, was it really good sex for both of you? I'm not trying to make you feel uncomfortable, I'm just trying to get a better picture of the relationship. These are just some examples to help explain what might give us a better view.
I would say I called the shots with the family, and led the way on the bedroom. We are both laid back and don't get offended easily. The few fights we had, I'd say I was first to make up, majority of the time. I never felt rejected sexually, it was more my complacency/depression. Sex was satisfying for us both, one of the few things we actually about regularly.
Lack of respect kills attraction/desire in the wife, and that's why I bring it up so much. Did she show you respect in front of the children, her family, and friends.........or did she lose her temper and talk down to you? Did she embarrass you, make you the butt of jokes, make you feel put down, or treat you some other way that showed she didn't respect you as a man? Is she the type who won't bury the hatchet, forgive, and chose to remain bitter? If you say there was no evidence of disrespect for you.........and there is no sign of rebellion, then we can move on to something else. If you aren't sure if you've been disrespected in front of your kids, or others...........let me know. Seriously, some guys just don't know, b/c it's all they've ever seen in marriages.
Absolutely no outward signs of disrespect from her, in private or in front of the kids. We never yelled at each other. Sometimes I get the sense she knows what she is doing isn't the right thing, but she can't help herself.
Has her adoption/bio parents been the center of every problem in the MR? How long has she known about her bio parents? Were there M problems before she knew her birth mother, or did the M start falling apart afterwards? This is what I would consider. Waywardness is exactly what the dictionary says it is! Therefore, if a couple has been together 20 years, I'm thinking some of her resentment about her H would be made known to him. I'm thinking there would have been some signs that she wasn't all that happy with him and their MR, and she begin to demonstrate a lack of respect for him. Remember, for the WW......it's about anger and blaming her H for everything wrong in her life. Maybe nothing too big at first, but over time, it became more obvious. She may have a sense of entitlement, b/c he spoiled her and acted like her unpaid employee. That's when their sex life took a nose-dive.
Adoption has not been front and center in our M, but it has been to her to a degree. We found her birth mother 20 years ago. M problems started much later.
I'll tell you something that a lot of WW's have in common, especially when she is moving forward with her agenda. Have you ever been conned by someone? How did it make you feel? Well, the WW cons her H, at least she tries. I'm not saying she doesn't have some other legit issues, but she will con you into believing her b.s.....even if it makes no sense. Then, you get all confused and become a big ole doormat. When does she stop the con job? When the H stops putting up with it.
This was why I asked the tough love question. I don't feel like a doormat...yet. But I want to cut that off at the pass and know when/how to not put up with it.
No arguments or yelling from W after last incident. Last night I went out, so we didn't have any interactions besides me calling her so she could open the door to the pizza guy (D15 was hungry and I ordered one remotely). My W was exhausted, and slept in early (she's like that a lot lately).
Today we had minimal interactions, talked a bit about D15's birthday tomorrow, options. Very cordial, but you can see how guarded she is when talking to me. D18 wanted me to go to her school to cut my hair so I left for that, my W was laying down and looked like she was crying a bit or about to cry. Again, she looks super stressed and holding things in. Don't know exactly, and I'm not going to ask because she won't tell me and I want to avoid conflicts.
I'm going to leave tonight to GAL again. Kids find it odd for me to leave, I told one of them 'hey this weekend is for you to hang out w mom more', she told me the whole thing was "stupid" ... like I think, but she said it not me.
My W's weekends with the kids are still kind of strange because I'm here on Sunday anyways (I take kids to Church) so it's not the same when they're with me, where she goes away and completely disappears.
Was going to get kids Disney tickets, D15 originally wanted to spend her B-day at Disney, but I'm still thinking about it. If we go, I'd have to buy my W a ticket (not necessarely an annual pass). If I tell my W she'll refuse, if I don't tell her who knows what she might do. But I can't go with the kids on her b-day and just leave their mom. We might just go out to eat and she wants to join us ... but thinking about it.
Thatís a great development mate hope thereís many more to come!
Originally Posted by WMLC
Happy to hear of a bright spot in the darkness, IW. Keep it up!
Originally Posted by Thornton
Sending positive vibes your way, IW!
Thank you all for your kind words and support. I am very fortunate to have found this place, and I am grateful for everyone's insight and wisdom
Originally Posted by unchien
I really like how you handled her offer with a polite decline. You acknowledged her kind offer, but continued to give space.
You are an incredibly patient DB'er. It would be nice to think your W is softening because you have been so consistent in your approach, giving her time and space, and perhaps she is seeing you more as a person again. It might mean something, it might mean nothing, but it has to feel good to have a little moment of connection (whatever it means) after so much distance.
Keep being that lighthouse, IW.
Thanks so much, U. I wish I knew if I was doing the right thing. It seems like there has been some softening on W's part and I would like to think that my efforts at DB have at least a little to do with it. I think I can start to see why many here say that Recon is challenging, but it is very clear that I am far from being in that position right now.
W and I are having to re-learn how to communicate all over again. It is like trying to learn to talk again after a 14 month drought. I am seeing what she is dealing with a little clearer now, and that's why I am giving so much space. I think she appreciates it, and it has the added bonus of giving me time to focus on myself.
My patience has never been so tested. Sometimes I feel like I am failing, others I feel like I am succeeding. But I have given up on the concept of "results", quite a while ago. I think it is because I have realized there will be no one thing or event that will end the rollercoaster. That's life though, too. We learn how to cope with the changes, and if we seize the opportunity, we teach ourselves how to accept them and maybe even thrive because of them.
Peacetoday and OwnIt -- That is really good to know that it gets better -- and OwnIt, that's amazing that you no longer feel those things. I keep trying to remind myself that that's what everyone here says and that that's really the only lifeline we can cling to as we walk through the furnace, that the pain lessens and even fades, that I will be a person and not just a person who appears normal (except on these boards! : ) ) carrying that secret pain. I am reading this wonderful book about healing from clusterB disorder abuse, and it really articulates what I have carried all my life, this wound that became physicalized and buried. So I think that is my biggest fear with my kids, that they will "seem" fine and I won't be able to fix the wound.
Which fact is of course part of MY wound and may not be theirs. Though clearly there is gonna be a pretty big wound for them.
D10 is sleeping over at H's house right now and I feel like I dropped her into a vat of confusion and abandoned her there.
But yeah, I know, 50% of that is MY wound, not hers.
CMMs bronchoscopy yesterday went smoothly. We wonít know much until biopsy results are back next week. ( This was done to assess some PET scan changes, with a goal to direct our next chemo or radiation step.)
Meanwhile his daytime oxygen levels seem to have returned to normal after the big dump they took in August, which is a relief.
I'll start of with saying absolutely when you get your own place things will start to normalize for you.
Did you really think your W was going to keep your wedding pictures up? After all you have been through your mind decides it's over she has moved on because she took them down.
So in the past you have mentioned that your W has made comments about how you're selfish. You see you discount her claims but what you are now doing to this girl is selfish. I'll say it again. YOU ARE NOT READY TO DATE. You're very needy and insecure and until you learn to stand alone you will struggle in relationships. This is a process and there are no shortcuts.
If you were in a healthy place and you met an amazing woman it would be a amazing experience for you. The last thing you would be doing would be being on a forum upset about someone taking some pictures down.
Thereís a Hawaiian word: Ohana is a Hawaiian word which refers to a person's extended family, which can include friends and other important social groups.
You donít have to have biological family to have your Ohana. The best Thanksgiving I ever had was in college when a bunch of us were without family for one reason or another and had an ďorphansĒ Thanksgiving.
A man I knew was a lifelong bachelor and had a troubled relationship with his own family. He threw a big party every Christmas Day night and called it ďThe Losers ChristmasĒ. It was swarmed with friends, people who didnít have family near or whose kids were grown and gone or in my case, on years when it was my exís turn to have the kids on Christmas. It was SUCH a fun party and he was much loved in his community. He may have been single but he was rich in friends.
Instead of waiting for a love interest to supply that extended family, how about working on building your own Ohana? You need more single friends (and married friends willing to include you) and need to build up those friendships. Iíve known women who formed Bunco groups (not my thing but works for them). Iíve long wanted to start a monthly salon (food and intellectual debate? Yes!). My mom had a book club. However you start, you need to begin building that Ohana around you (I know you have a lot of married friends but itís just not enough right now, is it?)
Today is our 5th Anniversary and I returned home yesterday from Florida. My W texted me yesterday asking if she could see our S today and hang out for the day. I said she could pick him up from daycare early and spend the day as I wasn't sure if she meant hang out with me too or just our S.
This morning she asked again what my plans were and if I'd be around today. I simply said "Yes, I'll be around for the day".
She picked him up near 4pm and asked me if I wanted to join them at a PlayFit. I decided to go. We talked a bit there and she started tearing up about something so I said: " I see you're sad, why don't we talk about this later if you still want to".
We all came back to the house and had dinner prepped so she stayed and ate with us. She initiated some talks about her finding a job. She asked my opinion on a bunch of things. I gave my opinion when asked and tried not to otherwise.
She also said she didn't want to come back to me just because it makes sense financially. She wants to give herself some time to think about things and work on herself so she can be sure she's coming back for the right reasons (if she does of course). I just validated and listened. She also said we were invited to a cottage her brother rented this wknd and she was going to ask me but she knew I had plans to take S to a Santa parade tomorrow.
She also said she's more aware of her mental health and making sure she's in a good state. She does plan on following through to see a psychiatrist but she is really concerned about going on medication. She feels her old job also contributed to poor mental health. Wants to talk to someone about everything that has gone on and where she's at now to help her through this period.
I did say a couple things - notably that I've learned a lot during this time too and as difficult as this has been I feel like I'm in a better spot to be a better partner. I didn't tell her I loved her but I did say I thing we can work through things and I'd support her with her mental health 100% if she needed me.
When she left she said: "The date today (our anniversary) is not lost on me". She then started crying and came back for a second hug. "I said it's not lost on me either but at least we had dinner" and that broke the tension a bit.
Anyways - I'm not sure what to make of everything although she at least recognizes that she's getting back to her old self again (she said that too) but is still cautious.
I don't know where this is going to go but I think I'll be ok either way. Of course I'm hoping we can work things out but I'm not going to let my hopes rest on her.
It's been nearly 12 months since BD and it's been a long road just as all the vets said. It looks like if R is to happen it's going to be an even longer road too.
1) Patience 2) Enjoy my time with Son 3) Continue to make my own personal improvements 4) Give space and GAL.
I am getting a hotel in the big city this weekend and visiting with my best friend that I haven't seen in 2 years! I live in a more rural setting about an hour away and she lives in another state. She knows everything about my sitch and is determined for me to get out there and get my "groove" back. I'm nervous and excited. I told her I'm definitely not ready or looking for anything with anyone else - but it would be super nice to be hit on (it feels like it's been forever)!!! Wish me luck. Also, wish me a sound mind so I don't do anything stupid that I know I would regret later! Eeek!
Yay Kristin, that is AWESOME!! I'm so excited for you-- sounds like exactly what you need. Have fun!!
Originally Posted by KristinG
Lately I've been struggling with deciphering whether she is just keeping me as a solid plan B, or whether her heart is fractured and she doesn't know how to rebuild.
Even though people talk a lot here about cake-eating and Plan Bs, my guess is that most WSs aren't diabolically evil plotters thinking through their sitchs logically and thinking "oh! I'll drop a crumb here to keep my LBS on the hook as plan B!" or whatever. They're totally confused/scared and trying to make sense of their own crazy emotions and both the tug of the fun/new/exciting life/love affair AND the very real solid anchors of the life and love they have built with you. I think this is why they say here to believe nothing of what they say and only half of what they do... not because they're purposefully lying, but because they truly do not know themselves what they want. and anything they perceive to be pressure or pursuit just pushes them away further.
Have you watched Esther Perel's TED talks? If not, I highly recommend. She talks about the tension between love and desire, and has a really interesting perspective.
Anyway... most importantly, have an amazing weekend!! I'll be thinking of you having a blast with your BFF and getting hit on left and right!!
Thanks for sharing... that is really helpful. I like how you let her take the lead, were never pushy, and are moving together as equals through it. I think I can take a lot of pointers from how you're handling this. I know it has already been frustrating for my H when we have had R talks because I kept pulling out the "expert" opinions from all my research and he felt like I really wasn't listening. Super impressed how you are handling this!!
Hope things continue to go smoothly for you and keep us updated!