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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Cool, Kas! Glad to hear (minus financial ruin) youíve cleared the potential headaches.
103 870 Read More
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Wow! What a day for her. The big boss told them to stay away from each other unless they have a meeting. The OMís wife called her and she said some really nasty things to upset her. She also stated she had a lawyer and the evidence would cost them their jobs and possibly their careers.

Iíd really hate this for my wife and our family. Maybe it was a mistake to tell the OMís wife. My wife was angry and continues to blame me. I tried to get her to leave our bed but she refused. I need her out and it will help me somewhat with moving forward.

Someone said earlier that exposure is like fireworks and it seems to be the case. Just craziness around here right now.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Originally Posted by CWarrior
So, her mom reached out to you. How did you respond--with shame, with guilt, with validation, with defensiveness? I agree you didn't love her during the affair, but it sounds like you did before and after? It probably [censored] for you that so many years together are re-defined by a few bad choices.

I have kept good communication with her parents, he gave always had a great relationship, even through all of this I was actually the one that told them about my infidelity. One to try and take blame for my actions and show regret. Two, because I felt like my wife needed someone to talk to besides me, she was still embarrassed about it and wouldn't talk to her mom, instead the OM contacted her about it and it's been downhill since. Of course through this whole time I have been shameful and took blame for my actions and the situation I created.

Yes I always loved her, before the affair happened I questioned her love and mine, but that was unhappiness that manifested into regret towards her. After the affair I fell deeply back into love with my wife, I seen what we had, what I had in her, that she was worth the fight and we both had a lot to do with our marriage eroding, I blamed her for my unhappiness before the affair. So yes, hindsight is terrible, I should have found help, I should have seeked MC before the affair, I should have done so many things differently, I created this situation, and it absolutely [censored], at this point I'm going to try and follow advice here and am going to put in the time and effort, and in due time see if things change with her and the OM.

Side note, this weekend age said that she could see marriage with him, and he seen the same, and I better get use to him being around because he's there to stay. Still crazy that she met him 100 days ago, and 60 days ago said she was overwhelmed, but loved me and would never leave.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
You described OM as a "serial womanizer". My Q to you was, who ends the relationships and how quickly does he typically move on? Past behavior is a good predictor of future opportunities.

I have heard he usually does, but that last one she caught him talking to 3 other women and she left. 6-9 months is pretty typical is my understanding. The night we all went out together and everything started he was bragging about all the women who text him out of the blue or who come over for a booty call because that is the reputation he has. Hope he hasn't changed, it will give me time to improve and hopefully some perspectives about me and us to change.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Make plans when she wants to come for dinner or go out with you for dinner.

Or just start saying "no thanks, I don't want to have dinner with you while you're with OM".

You're not so sure because you want to believe she's having second thoughts. IF she wanted to work on the marriage you would know.

Listen man, my W said all sorts of positive things that I took to heart and I believed she was reconsidering. However, there still wasn't any physical affection from her and here we are now going through a separation agreement with our lawyers. When I look back, she really didn't give me any indication that she was interested in a R with me.

Don't be her puppy dog.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Man Gekko...I need to get where you're at.

Good for you man.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
I suppose I could go read everything in your situation - but how were you able to get sole custody? I'm at the legal stage in my situation and have asked for full custody.

My son lives with me and sees his mom Wednesday nights and once a weekend. She agreed to this with me two months ago. She's bailed twice now on her weekend day with him to be out with friends.

Glad you are happy!
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Surviving the Big D
4 hours ago
Thank you for validating me. Itís such strange behavior. Like, ok, my kid is a little snobby at times and itís rolling out the red carpet for anymore. Itís just weird. Itís not about a 12 year old trying to hurt them. He should know that. And not a position I want to be in. I would say he's OCPD. And he always has to be right. And everything is guilt ridden with him. And he gaslights when it comes to the money. He makes me think Iím crazy sometimes. I love him, he raised me, bit heís just too much these days.

I feel horribly alone in this world. Raising a daughter alone from birth with no one to lean on, no mother figure, no husband is hard. You pretty much doubt yourself all the time, you have no one to tell you are doing a good job or give support. Itís a very lonely existence within that.

I absolutely do not want to give M the satisfaction of thinking Iím lining over him. I really was too good for him. He should be lining for me.

Saw a great meme on FB today ďstop expecting YOU from people. So much truth
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For Newcomers
5 hours ago
Originally Posted by unchien
Hey DS -

The major difficulty in this whole process is my W playing the victim role. She talks a lot about being scared and frightened of me. She gets upset if I stand up for myself calmly. I have worries about how D will go, as I assume we are heading down that path at this point.

Ok mate, I fully get your drift. My XW is like that too, but hasnt said she is scared or frightened of me thankfully. Was this her attitude too when you were married, or is it new since separation?

This is tricky to handle. You'll need to make the call if this is just bravado on her part in wanting to control the situation. For me, when my XW and I discussed finance split and exchanged offers, I stood firm on what money I wanted (it was a fantastic deal for her anyway), and simply told her "I'm firm on my position". She ranted, raved and told me she hated me, then a few days later accepted I was immoveable.

I'd try the minimalist approach to responding (without things like 'hope you're having a good time...") and see how she reacts, let it wash over you like waves smashing a granite shoreline, then wait a day or so to see if she changes.

If she says she's 'scared' of you, ask her to tell you what about you scares her so you can understand where she's coming from. Then stand back, gesture for her to talk, and adopt a neutral, contemplative stance.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:52 PM
Thanks everyone. Really appreciate your input and support!

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Did she make a big deal because you wanted to split it

Hey AS. It was nothing like that. She just called the server over for the bill as we were getting up from our seats. Before we even had a chance to do anything she just loudly and awkwardly proclaimed she wanted a split bill. I've been very generous with my money since we split finances, so she knew I wasn't going to let her foot the bill. It's just her being her - get in first, make it loud and awkward, she needs to control the situation, and nobody tells her what to do.

My SD then decided she'd like to pay for me. XW decided to loudly tell me how nice it was that my SD was paying for me, even though I just said that to my SD, and we were all standing within 2 feet of each other. I ignored her.

Pre BD, we had a single joint account where we pooled all our income, so there was no issue with who paid the bill as it was mutual money.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
[quote=DS9] It's a reflection of how she feels right now. But even so, this person she is now, do you even WANT to be married to someone like that?

I know man, it's how she has felt for months. She got a detailed personalised day by day astrology report late last year. It basically told her to make these changes immediately in 2019, focus on her own sole happiness without exception, and focus on friends and kids. The small bits I read before I put it down made me feel sick. It was like a movie script of what she'd done.

No, I wouldn't want to be married to her how she is now - I just don't know if she'll ever come back as I don't know if she has MLC. I've realised that for all her love and affection during our M, there was an undercurrent to her that if she grew tired or something, she'd walk without looking back. It's interesting you mentioned your new lady gives you a lot of love AND respect. My XW gave me a lot of love, but pretty much nil respect. I was very naive.

This forum and all the lovely people that inhabit it have made me realise how distorted my perception of how I should be in a relationship really was, and how to stick up for yourself with women in your life. It has also made me realise what I need to do to take responsibility and fix my part in the reasons why my M disintegrated.

Originally Posted by Dan35
Focus on the present and the present only. I realised I wasted so much time worrying about what would happen in 3 or 5 years' time. Now, I don't care. I just think about the week or fortnight ahead. That's sufficient.

Nail on head Dan. I've always had an undercurrent of uneasiness, which I've recently realised is my inbuilt mechanism whereby I worry about things way off in the future that may or may not happen, and always distilling worst case scenarios. I'm taking baby steps to becoming more Zen like with focussing on the now, and not becoming bogged in analysis paralysis.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
So sorry Rick. It is amazing the percentage of sitchs here have EAs or PAs even when people are sure their sitch is different. I know I was one of them. Someone on here, canít remember who at the moment, said ďTarzan doesnít let go of one vine until he has a hold of the otherĒ. It is so true. I think your decision not to say anything is a good one. Keep moving forward with your GAL activities. (((HUGS)))

Dejavu6, I like the Tarzan Reference.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Sorry to read that Rick, but yes it is pretty much expected. Say nothing for now, try not to act differently. Overnight stays are never a good sign.

Let this fuel your detachment and your GAL. Stop being home when she is home. When she is gone, enjoy your home. BTW I'm in your AO so I hope you're soaking up this summer blast we're getting and making the best of it!

Yea, I feel more desire to increase my GAL activities and I'm feeling more detached but I still have more work to do on that part.
I could do without the humidity but I'll take all this heat before winter sets in. I did a 2-1/2 mile hike/run on Sunday, the humidity made it rough.

Originally Posted by LH19

Yep you can pretty much set your watch by it.

Donít confront until you come here and map out a plan. If you confront you need a strong plan in place. There is nothing that makes a man look weaker then if he is willing to share his w with another man.

I don't plan on confronting anytime soon. In the back of mind mind I knew it was a possibility, this just confirmed it, so for now, I'm just going to continue my GAL and detachment.
My son leaves for basic training on November 24th, so any confrontation won't be until after that, if confronting her is the best path. I've got time to set my direction.
I'm taking this time to work on the house and get it ready for sale if it comes to that, although I would prefer not to, I just want to prepare.

Originally Posted by SoTorn

My exww cheated with her boss. One of the red flags was him always pushing for her advancement in her career and him always traveling with her even though there was zero reason for him to go anywhere with her.

Yea, my wife has been to the corporate office a couple times about 2 hours away with an overnight stay. I'm sure he was there with her.
78 1,847 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 11:03 PM
How's it going?
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:15 PM
I don't agree with you dating. I think it's wrong. It doesn't even sound like what you're doing (someone coming over for the night is not a date). I did like what R2C said too. But please no need to go asking your kids about this. Your W is just mad.

Your W is making crap up about being "ready to talk about the marriage". Bull. She would have done it if that were the case. She's the one who left and now she is mad. But I hope you can just find some consistency with this situation and try to work on that.

Also, if the convo is about kid driving, you can try to keep the convo on point and not let it get too far away. My suspicions are that she is hurt and wanted to talk to you about it.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:14 PM
AS, Tryhard, and DS9. Thanks for the support. As far as $ and the W. Both her and I maintained our individual health insurance with our workplaces, but she had me on as a secondary on her policy. I had her keep me on it from January to August for the mental health benefits since my plans deduction was over $1000. So she took my half of the tax return money from this year deducted that from what I owed her (Even though she already spent it.) So owed amount came out to $321 and change. So I gave her $100 torwards that to give her a little cash flow until she got paid. I'm in no hurry to give it all to her at once, despite having the money because I have to plan for all of my amenities purchases and rent security deposit in the next 15 to 30 days. She can sweat it. Besides she's holding my $5k until I sign the quick claims deed. What that is is basically you relinquish any ownership of title to the property. She is now the sole mortgage holder for the mortgage note since refinance. Funny story she had a guy come by the house I filled out some papers and signed off on them. I didn't relinquish anything it was just with knowledge that she is the sole mortgage note holder. Had to fill out our date of marriage on the form. She couldn't remember the even though our 10th anniversary was three weeks prior.

As far as our R talks... I'd rather slam my ball$ in a sliding door then have another one of those talks. I mean yeah it brings Clarity on other people's perceptions of things but it really doesn't do any good as far as the marriage is concerned. I only bring certain things up every once in awhile just to gauge how far off both of our perceptions are since we barely communicate. I'm done fighting for her, standing for her, and holding onto her. She is overall a good woman, but I'm just hurt as a man, a father and a husband. She is not out to get me or screw me, she is being fair overall and amicable. Im just more focused on getting my act together for my own and S2's sake. Im gone though. I'm going out of my way to distance myself from her and her family despite them all still being very good people. I'm not playing into her narrative that we can still be a family, act as a family, etc... So yeah I'm being a little bit of a hard a$$ at times, but that's my mindset, and my family's mindset when people divorce and seperate. Her family's mindset is everybody can still get along and go to family functions and be friends and all this other stuff, bring future relationship mates etc... maybe one day when I'm ready for it, years down the road when im detached. The only thing I'm willing to attend is if its for S2 like birthdays or back to school night. Otherwise..SEPERATED!!! Good luck to you and your new life, I wish you well. as far as dealing with the headaches I'm getting the better end of the deal when it comes to the buyout and she's going to have to go through all the trouble to put the house in the market... So?...TBC... going to my first swing dancing lessons tonight yeehaw
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:29 PM
I'm not sure about the cost of a mediator. My XH and I talked about getting a mediator but what ended up happening is he went to a lawyer and drafted a separation agreement (now our divorce agreement) with proposed divisions of assets and custody stuff. As he was still in an ultra agreeable state (he had not yet confirmed his affair and didn't want me to know about it), I took advantage as what he proposed was pretty reasonable - especially for me. The only sticking point we had was the date of separation (he obviously told OW May 1st whereas it was October 1st in my world). He threw a hissy fit when I said I didn't want to agree to it but in the end I agreed just to move things along and also not risk him becoming less agreeable on the things I wanted. Also...because he is the one who drafted the proposal, his lawyer bill was much, much higher than mine. Mine ended up being about $1,200. That's a win in my books. may want to propose to your H that he have something drafted that you can use as a starting point. Make him play his hand first. If you think it is too much weighted on his side, you can always go to a mediator afterwards. That's my opinion for what it is worth. smile
48 796 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 08:54 PM
The kids know how much debt they are in. They also know the funding that is right there, and that Mom is stubbornly sitting on it.

Are you sure she hasn't spent it?
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 08:50 PM
""They" being your W and her L?"


I haven't asked W anything about it. She probably wouldn't discuss it, what I did was find the payment proofs that she is claiming that she paid (showing that I paid them) and made sure that my attorney had them and also uploaded them to the parenting app (because it's all admissible) and set it as an expense that I wasn't claiming reimbursement on...just so she could see it with her own eyes. I know they're going to try to deny that I paid them still...but that's just because they are stomping their feet.

She's also objecting claiming the (correct) separation date is incorrect and wanting to change it.

The rest of the objections are things they put in that they didn't realize they put in, and also they're claiming that because W didn't sign it, the document needs to be altered.

Welp. Should be a blast in court. laugh
40 1,356 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 08:31 PM
MC is a good way to see id she is willing to try to save the relationship

depending on the therapist
some will push D --I think it depends on their beliefs and what we ask of them b4 therapy
some therapists will also support DB and your standing if that is what you want-

We went to 2 MC
One I picked and he supported the M and trying
but XH refused to go back and said M was over

then XH picked his therapist at the time who was D herself and she promoted D
She encouraged XH to leave and pursue his dream life and OW
She did not believe in MLC and was probably a MLCer herself as I look back
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Sorry Lumis. Hate to say it...but Vegas isnít somewhere anyone goes alone unless they are a professional gambler. I wouldnít be surprised if she was meeting someone there. you said...whatever. You just need to do what you need to do to move forward with your life. (((HUGS)))

It's a little different for her and I as it was a frequent short vacation destination, but I'm not in denial here, it's probably a 50:50 chance she met someone there.
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Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 07:52 PM
I am so very sorry for your loss. May you and your family find comfort in the days ahead from the many memories that you created and shared w/him over the years. He is at peace now, no more pain and is always there within your hearts.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:40 PM
I now know why she said I didn't have an affair and I am not seeing that guy anymore. She did have an EA with him maybe PA I have no idea but it ended pretty much after D13 and I outed her in June. My belief is she had three affairs going on at the same time, the first was developing a family relationship with her new group of friends at the gym (she worked out 6 days a week with them the past year) so she had people to help her through leaving me, the second was with my D13's best friend dad which I think was a cover for the real affair, the third was with this guy she met online. I think they were completely separate in the sense that she replaced our family with these friends and OM's with me but they didn't know about each other.

When D13 and I outed her about the relationship with D13 best friends dad she at first told daughter she did take walks with him holding hands and did talk about her marital problems with him. Word got around and all of a sudden he disappeared from her life and she told everyone I was just making stuff up to turn D13 against her (D13 was the one who witnessed it). She even told D13 that it must have been some other girl she saw with him. This enabled her to show to her new exercise family how awful and controlling I was and that she couldn't go anywhere or I would yell accusations at her. I never even accused her of anything only told her D13 did not feel comfortable around him or her exercise friends which D13 asked me to tell her. Regardless he was quickly out of the picture.

The real affair was with some guy from another state. I have no clue how long they have been in communication but I know it was before the divorce was final and he wanted to meet her badly in real life. They finally met in real life last week to do some big obstacle race in a state up north and he even offered to buy her a plane ticket for the event. He is very big into these races and goes all over the country to do them. I also know they have even talked about one of them moving so they can live together but XW at this time won't because of D13 and he validates that by telling her he understood that from the beginning but then goes on about how great his home is. He actually validates every accusation and hateful thing she says about me. The creepiest thing is he looks about 15 years or more older than her and looks exactly like her stepdad and same age as her stepdad when he died of cancer about 12 years ago.

Her stepdad was a super control freak and verbally abusive to her. Now she is idolizing her stepdad to her new friends and this guy. History has been rewritten so that I was the one who was super controlling. It appears that all the harm her stepdad and mom caused her is being blamed on me and she has now found a guy who is in the same profession as her stepdad was, looks like him, and is about the same age as he was when he passed away to replace me. I was replaced by her abusive dad. I have no idea if this guy is abusive emotionally or physically but in every other way he is the same. Even though we are divorced I still worry for XW but I know that there is nothing I can do

Now I know we are divorced and why the heck should I care or even let other people tell me about this stuff. I should tell them I don't care and move on with my life. XW has no idea I know any of this and almost nobody knows I know. It is just hard because I helped her through some extremely tough times with her parents and was always her rock. All those things they did to her is now being piled on me. XW is treating D13 exactly how her mom treated her. I worry so much that the trauma D13 is going through is going to result in this painful cycle never stopping.

I tried to fix a severely traumatized young women 22 years ago and am just now realizing it wasn't possible or even my job to fix the damage in her. I believed if I loved her enough and surrounded her with my family and friends that everything would be all right. The end result was pain, horrible endless pain.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:33 PM
Thank you - it felt good not really being in a state of worry for once. Yes I was nervous, but happy with how I handled things. I'm glad I was not too stand-offish, but not overtly emotional.

Not hugging her when I left was hard though. She is the perfect height for me to hug! Plus her hair always smells nice.

Anyway, GAL is working well for me, and I'm looking forward.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:31 PM
Thanks for the humor, AS. That made me chuckle. And thank you for pointing out that maybe Iím not as bad a person as Iím feeling after being hit with another bomb.
26 470 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 04:34 PM
Had a panic this morning when I couldn't find my passport for over an hour - and this is in a tiny room. Eventually found on the floor under one end of the bed.

Sore feet and possibly lighter after another day of lots of walking in what was forecast to be low 20s (celcius) and was mid 30s. Drank about 3 litres of water at the hotel room. The Madrid royal palace is just jaw dropping amazing. After my tour there was no apparent ride back to my hotel so I wandered through this amazing park and around and about.

I've got things more or less figured out now. The VISA just plain doesn't work in an ATM so I picked up a bit more cash. I confirmed that the card worked at a souvenir shop. Thought about picking S up a nice scarf which they do nicely here but didn't think it appropriate and I have no clue on her taste. Bought some exciting Madrid themed socks. With cash in my pocket and a working card and confidence in my heart, I stopped at a cafe, chased away the pigeons and had a nice light lunch. I've probably over-provisioned in money at this point but I can convert the Euros to $US for when I go visit my daughter. I also still have almost a week of meals to fund though as well. I'm finding that I'm not very hungry though and am going with that as I really would like to lose weight.

B would have absolutely hated this trip I think wink especially the walking. I know when I used to vacation with my ex, she'd lay around at the resort (always had to be a tropical beach resort) while I'd wander off and then we'd catch up later. The expectation was that if B and I had continued that it would have been like that.

Surprisingly S was up when I sent her a "good morning" and told her what adventures I was embarking on including the panic of the lost passport - she'd asked for me to keep her up to date on her adventures. She'd had a late movie night with her younger daughter and her Dad. I'm not really investing too much mentally on her but as a pretty known quantity it's certainly worth having brunch with her.

Off for my first paella now. Tomorrow is a bus excursion and tour of Toledo so likely less walking overall. Most of the other people on the tour this morning were couples and generally quite a bit older than me.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by Dan35
This is very interesting to read. Once the shame is gone, you can make significant steps forward and progress to regret/guilt and remorse and then owning the mistake and rectifying your approach so you know how to react if a similar thing happens in the future.

Dan, I hadn't thought about it that way, but you make complete sense!

When I say, "I goofed because.. I'm just a failure at X" it's outside my control and so hard to make progress. Transforming from feeling shame to feeling guilt will mean owning my mistakes, but also empowers me to do better. Thanks for the insights. It's clear you've done significant self-work in this area.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 02:39 PM
Try to relax Oz. Detach and keep that GAL

Focus your energy on yourself.

Stay strong there bro!
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