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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Thanks for all of your help.
I bought the book DB. Read it read the online forum. Tried do all the steps. Not successful at all of them and definitely not all the time. I started to get disappointed and angry the ridiculousness of this.

Anyway even her brother told me "If she does not realize what you are, it is her loss".

Worked alot with telephone marriage councilor in covid 19. Spent alot of money. Even she thinks wife is making a mistake.

This week finalizing separation papers and found a condo to move to. Kids still hitting me, yelling at me and grandmother thinks the children are so spolied when they dont get what they ant and treat me badly. I know they love me sort of. The older girl seems to want me gone too. To be fair there are medical conditions and I was tough on them all with homework etc etc etc. at earlier ages until now.

Grandmother says it is not me it is the mother. MC sort of says it indirectly but she does not make the official diagnosis. MC also says the divorced and single friends influence on wife was not good.

I dont have much to say except I hope I can go on. i dont really want to be with her either because I never knew such hate such contempt for me from someone I loved, trusted and thought we would grow old together. I will miss my family, house and mostly the kids. The kids are really my concern but as I say here i cannot do much with them. I dont want them to hate me if they are forced to see me.

Sad but I have to respect all of their wishes even the soon to be ex wife. Marriage counselor gets this question alot form me. Am i really a bad father and husband. After a long time of sessions with me and us, she says not at all. She said there will be lots of women in this age group we are in, interested in me for sure. I am a catch. whoopie doo. NC even says wife will want to come back! Yeah its ok NEXT.

Anyway thank you all. I dont know if I will comment much more. I do watch MWD videos and i think had I learned alot of this years ago I might have made a difference - with most women. Not this one.

Good luck for you who have hope and are doing the DB steps. if mine had been more "normal" I would have had a chance.
27 1,156 Read More
For Newcomers
5 hours ago
I had stopped posting in this forum, but happened to see your update and logged back in after a long time.

You are a good person and your advice and feedback has benefited so many people here. I related to your sitch personally and your feedback helped me in my effort to heal. Good luck with the new job. I know things work out great for you, your kids and the lucky lady you eventually end up with long term!

Originally Posted by LH19

"Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it.

Just as Red in the movie 'The Shawshank Redemption' gave Andy a different perspective about hope, here my slightly different perceptive on your take:

Even on the darkest days, know that the sun is there hidden behind the clouds. Once the clouds clear, you will see what a beautiful world it truly is - full of sunshine and rainbows. However long and hard the downpour is, it will eventually stop. Know that when it does, your world will be more beautiful than it ever was before the rain.

Take care my friend. I wish you all the best!
83 2,182 Read More
Midlife Crisis
5 hours ago
P.P.S. to DnJ -- I have continued to do Dr. DnJ's homework. Much research and no roofing company payment plans later, I am thinking heat pump starting with one room for now and temporary insulation on ceilings where I can do it. I found a DIY where someone covered foam boards with fabric and it was almost cute, plus very easy to put up quickly. This will not reach an R value of DnJ's house but will be a zillion times better than the current nothing. By fall 2021, I should be able to do it properly with insulation added to outside before putting on new roof and then I can phase out more propane heaters and add more mini splits. Do you approve? And if so, do I need to put strips along the ceiling and nail the boards to those so that there is a little air between board and ceiling or can I nail it directly to ceiling (wood planks). It is not going to be air tight so does this mean I don't have to worry about moisture building up between boards and ceiling? And I will pull it out for the summer and only reinstall in the fall if I can't redo the real roof with proper insulation by then.

The latest problem is a mouse infestation. Can't figure out where they are coming from but I had to have the yard dug up to pump the septic so I thought that might be why? It's log so they don't seem to be nesting in the house, just getting in.

This is our new youtube channel. It's called, "In the Woods with DnJ and Gerda." You show our viewers how to build and fix stuff and I offer design tips and keep everyone entertained. I used to have an employee at my old business who liked to watch me interact with customers. He'd turn to the other staff members and say with his kind of mafia accent, "Look at 'er. She's workin da room."
53 2,475 Read More
For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Hey guys trying to pop in every now and again to keep updating. I'm not sure if I've said but this place really did help give me an outlet I really needed during all of this. I am doing basically the same as I have been since the beginning of the month. Just kinda going through life. Not strong ups or downs really. Tomorrow is my wedding Anniversary. Right now I feel nothing in particular about that. Tomorrow may be worse than I expect though. Just trying to brace myself some for it.

In life things have been kinda chaotic. Fires are everyone in Ca. Not sure when was the last I wasn't breathing in smoke all day now . lol Had swamp cooler go out on me and had it replaced this week. A very hefty 1400 dollar bill. Pretty rough without the 2nd income that basically was only used to save for stuff like that. I fear what keeping this place might do to me financially sometimes.

Sandi, I did do just as you suggested. Basically everything is packed away and put in our spare bedroom now. She took the bed out of there anyway so its not like it does me much good for guests right now anyway. Reorganized the craft corner into a darts area and display for my tiki stuff.
91 4,195 Read More
Midlife Crisis
6 hours ago
Hello Sage

Originally Posted by Sage4
I want to be further along in this process than I am. I want to have consistently good, strong, happy days instead of a couple here and there. I don't want H to have so much power over my feelings and emotions. But I suppose that this was a big love for me. And the feelings surrounding a big love don't just disappear overnight.

Kindly is right. We give our spouse that power over us, and we can take it back.

Detachment, indifference, and letting go.

The underlying truth is H has no power over you. None. You have all the power, always have, and you are allowing H’s behaviour to influence you.

You control you. Your can directly control your thoughts, actions, and reactions. Through these you can influence your emotions and beliefs. Thought and physical action are powerful influences that can affect desired changes and stop reinforcing of emotions.

Big love is much more than feelings. And yes, it does not disappear quickly.

However, do not mix H’s influence and your feeling due to big love. “But I suppose that this was a big love for me” is reinforcing that “power” over you. You are telling yourself a reason for allowing H’s influence/power to persist. And your mind is listening.

Start with the easier part. This was a big love. In truth you aren’t looking to rid yourself of those feelings, right? It’s ok, you are seeking compassion and empathy. Accept that you can love H and let him go. Big sincere love may last a lifetime; see it for what it is.

Indifference will mute those loving feelings for a while. From my experience they return. So...

Do not tie that love, or the supposed requisite disappearance of it, to taking back your emotional power. These are two separate things.

Once you accept that you can let H go, you start taking back your power. And those good, strong, happy days start to become much more consistent.

Originally Posted by Sage4
But right now I am not sure what I am standing for. Can you help me understand what it means to be standing for me? Because in this place I am in right now, standing for me looks like cutting all ties with H, moving on with my life, being a killer single mama to my treasures and aiming for the bright future I believe I have ahead of me.

Indifference causes our stand to waiver. At first our standing is based upon feelings and fear. Indifference lessens the very feelings of why we “feel” to stand. Look to your beliefs.

Standing for me. Standing really starts once we are healed enough to stand down. To stand for our marriage, our spouse, our relationship will not find that strong purchase. You stand for you and your beliefs. And this takes time to figure out.

There is a period of limbo and indifference. It is somewhat purgatory-like and seemly endless. However, there is something beyond limbo. Stay the course and discover you in that future. That is standing for you.

Right now, it seems like you should cut all ties and move on with your life. Or do you mean, let go of H, give him to God, and move forward living a good life? The latter begets a strength and a stand.

Yes, be an awesome Mother and live a bright future.

Standing for you, is living those values and beliefs.

Standing for you is a personal thing and means different to different people. Until one is completely sure they are ready to stand down - stand.

For me. For the first while, standing is the default. I was too broken and hurt to do anything else. Eventually I healed enough that I could stand down. I chose not too. I chose to stand for me. To live my convictions. To be compassionate. To stand and find forgiveness and acceptance. For both W and me.

Standing is forsaking another special relationship. Standing for you, strengthens the relationship with yourself, with your kids, with God.

Originally Posted by Sage4
...being a killer single mama to my treasures and aiming for the bright future I believe I have ahead of me.

Standing for you, doesn’t get much better summarized than what you said.

58 1,392 Read More
For Newcomers
7 hours ago

I appreciate you chiming in.

Originally Posted by joejoe1
Well, you can't control her and any attempt to stand your ground will come off that way. The best thing to do, you have already done. Notified your lawyer.

I was looking at it in terms of "you can't nice her back" and how much do I let things like this slide early and set a bad precedent where I'll get walked over even more down the road, but I can see how it could be seen as controlling. Maybe I should've just let it roll off me. I don't really object to her grandmother watching D2 as much as her deviating from our agreed to plan at the last minute without consulting me.

Originally Posted by joejoe1
I just skimmed through your sitch, and I'm sorry you have ended up here, but I'm also glad that you have found this forum. You will get the best advice, more than any money can buy.

Thanks for taking the time - it's been great to hear everyone's feedback so far.

Originally Posted by joejoe1
Stay steady for the kids, if an action can't be back with legal consequence/paperwork than the best you can do is state your opinion, because that's what it will be, she won't HAVE to listen or follow what you tell her. So any attempt will end in frustration. Just know, time and patience will get you through.

Will do. I'm doing everything I can to be there for the kids. I'm doing fairly well over all at focusing on the kids, work, and GAL and not getting wrapped up in the sitch and drama but there are certain triggers like these exchanges which get me riled up. I need to keep working on the patience and not letting those situations get to me.

Originally Posted by joejoe1
IMO, just state to her in a text message, that the best thing is for you two to talk about changes in the future. Put in a place where you can record your statement to her and her response. Don't go back and forth with her, which I've seen you have already not done.

I asked her to stick to our agreed upon schedule and in the future review proposed changes to it in advance, but admittedly went back and forth a few times before dropping it. I probably should've stated it once, and moved on. I think it was a combination of losing more time with D2 and being told the plan was changing vs. being asked.

Originally Posted by joejoe1
Stay strong

Thanks, I'm trying!
98 3,369 Read More
For Newcomers
7 hours ago

My condolences. Sorry to hear about your big puppy/family member. I hope you and your family gets the proper time to grieve. Glad to hear from you. Glad to see you getting closer to hubby again.

15 1,284 Read More
Midlife Crisis
8 hours ago
Hello Kind

Originally Posted by Sage4

Originally Posted by DnJ

Kind and cordial is not an act. And neither is compassionate.

My mantra for the day. Thank you D!

Originally Posted by Kindly
I like this as a mantra too, however it’s feeling fake to me (me being kind and cordial) I feel like kind, cordial and compassion are deeply buried and have no opportunity to shine as H continues to treat me like a ghost. It’s there because I’m not holding onto hate...but then I realized maybe it’s not for H ....it’s for me right now.

I can show endless amounts of compassion toward or for someone else, but not myself.
I’m as kind as I can be always towards others, but not myself.

It’s ok if kind and cordial “feels” fake. Feelings change.

It is not an act. You do demonstrate and live kindness and compassion, albeit mostly towards others. Perfectly normal, as we do tend to be our own harshest critic.

Your feelings for H are entering indifference, and therefore will seem and feel fake. Indifference is a strange landscape with other feelings appearing larger than they actually are when held against the void of feelings towards H. This is temporary, your feelings will and do return. Embrace this indifference and discover your values and beliefs without all the noise and distraction of H.

Find your beliefs. Strengthen and craft those you like, and alter or discard those you don’t.

And yes, our ‘self’ is always listening. Speak well the dialog you are telling yourself. It is not an act!

Be kind and compassionate towards yourself, she’s a pretty awesome gal who has been through a lot. Believe it.

29 766 Read More
Midlife Crisis
9 hours ago

Originally Posted by wooba
I feel like demonizing a WAS would probably be the easier way out. Isn't almost always easier to be hateful and angry (like most WASes) than choosing to be compassionate? It really does take strength to not rewrite history to fit our narrative.

I do believe demonizing would be the easier route - at first.

Anger is such a powerful emotion. One feels strong when angry. It feels “good” to be strong, powerful, and in control. However, that darker path is a deceit. Grudges, hate, judging, anger, all takes a toll. It is easy to succumb, for it is a downhill path.

Compassion, Grace, and light are the true path to strength, power, and control. In the beginning light is so ethereal. A delicate gentleness is such a contrast to those strong angry feelings.

As one lives gently and in peace, the light grows. Compassion blooms, empathy flourishes, and it takes over. Once what was such a climb to find, becomes the norm. One discovers the arduous climb was only within themselves. Living in the light is renewing. The strength of that delicate light is amazing.

Anger and vengeance are heavy emotions and require much to carry around. Light is aptly named, for it requires little effort to stand tall while wrapped within it.

Light is more than a feeling of strength or that feeling “good”. It is strength. It is good. It is conviction and values and beliefs.

This is the strength to keep our history and not rewrite it. This is the strength to stand for you. This is the path to forgiveness and acceptance.

2 30 Read More
For Newcomers
9 hours ago
Sooooo.... tomorrow is the day.

I have not seen H in over 3months. Tomorrow morning he will be here to do the final financial run down... very meh at seeing him. IDK... weird like I want to see him so much and at the same time I really don't... that's a very weird feeling to sit with.

Of course I've got a killer day planned.... I will be getting my mammogram at 7:30am.... then meeting my H... my mom is bringing over lunch... then eye doc to get my new lenses so these old lady eyes can see ya better... then a nice long drive and a 3mile hike with my dog!!!

But, then on Friday its a trip up north meeting old high school friends for cocktails! Then Saturday my male bff who I just got back from sailing will be in my town for a quick family trip... dinner at our famous local pizza joint. smile

I won't lie... not one bit... as much as I'm filling my life with other stuff I still have big chunks of the day where I just miss my H. I tell myself I've given him time and space. I've done some really hard work on myself both inside and out. Isn't there even a tiny part of him that misses some tiny part of me??? <<< I know I'm not supposed to say this stuff, but I'm keeping it real. I still hope my H will want to take another look at the M,
67 1,521 Read More
Surviving the Big D
9 hours ago
this is assuming the other two kids wouldn't want to buy it.

None of them are likely to be in a position to buy the others out of the house, and my oldest is the one most likely to want to keep living there, my middle likes where he is and my youngest actually doesn't care for the suburbs.

I do think some kind of arrangement which allows oldest (and youngest, if he wants to) keep living here in the short term, with a plan to split it/sell it in the future. With any luck, I'll live a long enough life to help them all get set up in their own homes and downsize my own, but for the foreseeable future, this seems the best plan. Maybe a ten year term before it needs to sell?
55 1,635 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1

Then today, I am really just so frustrated with a situation. I had mentioned how my dad said he wants to redo my kitchen. He told me to start finding contractors, etc. I HATE taking anything from my dad, and you will see why.

AT lunch on saturday my daughter mentions something about wanting to go back to disney and have them come this time. He starts planning it at the table. My daughter mentions something baout doing hershey park for christmas, he says he is going ot look into it. I brought something up about my kitchen the next day and he says " I can't afford that if we are going ot disney" I was like WTF?! I said to my dad, I would rather have my kitchen done than go to disney, you can't promise her that without discussing it with me first" he kind of blows that off.

Today he complains about expenses to me.... I text him " are we doing the kitchen still?" He says "well, I have to do catch up on my bills, get D13's bed (which he offered at the same time as the kitchen because he made money in the stock market) and do hershey park, so at a later time. I am not a bank"

What?!? He tells me he is doing my kitchen, he came into money, please accept this, we want ot do this so much for you, get prices and contractors" to "I am not a bank" comment. He totally gaslights me all the time. I would rather have zero offers than one that he always takes back, then makes me feel guilty about it by saying something like "I'm not a bank" He makes me feel like I am going nuts. This is why I accept nothing unless it is an emergency.

Honeslty, it has me really upset. ANd not because i am not getting my kitchen redone, even though I was excited about it and I have begun shopping around like he told me to, but because he always takes things back and makes me sound greedy. I told him I would rather he not pay for any of it. And he tells me " i';; help when I can" I don't want a dime. At least no one will take it away or make me feel guilty if I save up and pay.

I seriously can't wait to get out of here. I want to move to an affordable area, have my own townhome that requires no maintnance that i can afford with one job and need no one for anything. I want to go so far away form the BS. I want to start over. I really need a new beginning.

Thanks for listening

you k now I am just catching up but that meme I posted yesterday? yeah. this. this is why. and I'd feel that way too. {{{{{{{{G}}}}}}}
ps good for you to start a workout routine. I'm in week 2 of PT, currently icing the foot. ouch.
48 1,593 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 11:55 PM
Hello Taz

Yes, the behaviour of an MLC spouse is quite bizarre. The complete opposite of who they once were.

These crisis people are emotionally dragged back to long ago torment(s) and pain, and relive that portion of their lives, over and over. They cannot face what happened or what they’ve done in attempt to run from their demons; blaming, projection, justifications, and so on.

Imagine, W is reliving as her 15 year old self. And she is married and has two boys both older than her, who are in college. Both of these “realities” existing together within her. Such confusion, she really cannot handle all of that. MLCers ignore and run. She “knows” she has kids and you, yet she cannot face that. Her emotions are cranked to 11, and she needs time and space to sort them out.

Her moments of facing reality bring with it all the guilt and shame of what she has done. That necessitates more running. It must be such a horrible journey to be on.

MLCers will expend incredible energies to maintain their fantasy. They have to.

However, they do recall, when their lives are quiet and still, like in the still of the night. Laying in bed, in the darkness, the demons come out to play. Lots of crisis people look sleep deprived; they cannot sleep and they use vices to avoid those quiet times.

My XW has texted one son at midnight and another five hours later at 5:00 am. She often looks haggard; I suspect her dreams are not pleasant.

The good and loving Mom, is buried under layers of guilt, shame, torment, and pains from long ago. As such, she can go for a long while without contacting her children, and when she does it is a shallow and empty conversation. These lost souls lose track of time, as they relive their pain and run. The world goes on, with them unaware of how much time is passing them by. As they try to make up for lost time, they loose so much more.

There is plenty to wrap one’s head around to make sense of MLC. A lot to accept. I found it a good path to seek understanding, compassion, and empathy. Give it time for these to grow and flourish, for if you attempt to rush you’ll drive yourself bonkers.

You are coming up on one year post BD - September 29th. W knows the date too. Plan to do something. If W calls, you got things to do and you’ll call her back, later. If she doesn’t call... either way you had a fun night out.

Take it on faith. The path of the LBS takes time to make sense of too.

You got this.

50 2,897 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 11:50 PM
what seems obvious to me is that S may not be unpacking because she may feel like she's not altogether sure she's going to stay, for any number of possible reasons, including that she may not feel like this is home yet.

it's worth a discussion.

If I bring my dog somewhere, I make sure he has a gentle airing before drop off to avoid such incidents. Maybe that can be stated for future reference. Seems like you're picking up a lot of figurative and literal $h!t that's not yours. As someone who has been doing a lot of the same I recognize the signs. Helps to set the boundaries, at least for me. Takes away chance of resentment down the road. Just a thought.

also, I would not mention anything anyone says to you about her unless it's lovely, glowingly positive, etc. Anything else is unnecessarily hurtful and puts a strain on your relationship with both her and her relationship with your friends, as others have noted.

I suggest a weekly "date night" or some such thing.

and seriously - clamp down on the revolving door! covid #s are spiking all over the place. The time to get serious about personal safety and hygiene is now, for all of us. do you have some sort of hygiene station or rules about hand washing as soon as everyone gets in the door?
85 2,736 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by may22
The GALing has been going well, even with barely leaving the house. I haven't pulled the trigger on the hotel room yet, mostly because we're still on total lockdown here and it just doesn't seem safe. So instead I behaved as I would if I were at a hotel. I slept in (my H hates this), I read my novel, I ordered take out instead of cooking (H picked it up). I played board games with the kids, watched a football game of my home team instead of H's, spent gift certificates I'd been saving up on me. I put away all my affair reading and post-nup research. I just put that all out of my mind as much as I could and focused on being OK, gratitude for the small things.

Don't it feel good to self care? Well done!

Originally Posted by may22
Taking a bit of a step back from H is really illuminating. He was quite uncomfortable with all of this. At one point we talked a little about his conversation with AP. I don't think he's going to reach out to do the clarifying thing, the crystal-clear "please never contact me again" statement-- he feels it was clear from the conversation that the door is closed on both sides. And he feels it is his work now to detach emotionally from AP such that even if she did reach out at some point in the future he wouldn't care, that another conversation with her wouldn't help him in that direction. Whatever. His choice, his life, and for me it simply means I have less confidence in this iteration of a reconciliation attempt than perhaps I would otherwise.

I indicated this, grabbed my computer and walked away (to do some online shopping). H stewed for a bit and then came out and said I'd ruined the morning. That he'd been in a good mood and now he wasn't. I asked why? He said, when I think you're upset or angry it makes me upset. I saw you grab your computer and I thought you were coming out here to journal (and presumably write out all the bad $hit I think about him). I said, no, I was spending a gift certificate online. But you should think about why that bothers you so much. What is that pit in your stomach telling you?

This all makes sense. He's not used to this new behavior so he's trying to lure you back into the same pattern. Don't give in. My only small 2x4 is you telling him why he needs to think about it. My three favorite words are "I hear you". That goes a long way with validating whilst staying in your own lane. Remember... how your H deals with his sh!t is his responsibility.

Originally Posted by may22
Then yesterday morning he came to me and said, I feel like you're second guessing staying with me. I feel like you're thinking you made the wrong choice. (I have told him, I'm here, for now, I don't have a lot of trust in you or in this process, but I'm not prepared at this moment to walk out the door or kick you out. I'm OK with just being, for awhile, and seeing where this goes, seeing if you do in fact do the things you've finally told me you want to do, from consciously and with intention detangling yourself emotionally from AP to demonstrating loving behaviors towards me. But I'm not ready to put my ring back on yet. (His is on.)

Another good place for validation.
"I hear you" or "I understand this is a little uncomfortable for you H".

He may push a little more... but you stay firm on your decision that your focus is on you.

Originally Posted by may22
He's really starting to wrestle with his identity and what it means for him to have done what he did in the context of staying. (Still so weird to me that the context matters so much.) He said he has a really hard time imagining totally reopening the emotional connection with me, being totally vulnerable, and then looking at the enormity of the betrayal and what it means that he did that... how can he even process that? I listened. I was not really able to validate (felt more like saying YEAH what does that mean and to me it means you do everything within your power to fix it, not navel-gaze and feel sorry for yourself). But, I listened and asked if he'd worked on that at all with his IC. He said he's been so focused in IC on his ambivalence and what to do that he hasn't really touched on any of this other stuff and he'd like to now.

I also think this is true. From what I can tell... he is used to being center of attention... and you are used to giving it to him (both positively and negatively)

As you recenter your focus to you - he's gonna push it more and more Prepare yourself for that. Whether that's guilt tripping or accusing you of the same behavior... it might take him a little bit to come around to the new dance you are creating. It's okay.

Originally Posted by may22
Anyway... listening to him, I get it. He has a lot of work to do both in getting over AP and in understanding his own behaviors and identity, and that work all has to take place before we are even remotely in a position to consider rebuilding our M. But I also have healing to do, anger and sadness and grief and how to process this betrayal from the one person I believed had my back no matter what.

Totally agree. I just want to touch on the something you said about how us oldies jump to recommend "S". It's not that we want that... but sometimes it's so d@mn hard to get space or self care in a way that's good for us. It can also calm us down so we can act/behave in a way that's true to our integrity. If you can do all those things whilst being in the same house... I think that's really fantastic!

Originally Posted by may22
It has felt to me all along that there were only two paths to healing for me-- one on my own where I can fully embrace that he is a fu%!kwit and I'm better off without him, and one where he is fully remorseful and crawling back on his hands and knees, ready to do whatever it takes, desperately back in love with me. This middle path is complicated for me and I can't quite see it, yet. Trying to continue to focus on me and sit in the moment without fast-forwarding in my head towards any particular destination.

That's the best way to look at it. The "whatever it takes" or "desperately back in love with me" are normal feelings... but also general and not achievable as a grandiose statement. Give it time. It'll become more clear the more you focus on you.

Originally Posted by may22
Sage, he is trying. And trying differently than he did before, with a lot more honesty and transparency-- which is both positive but also hard in that he is categorically not going to say or do anything just because I wish it were so. It still feels a lot about him and what he needs right now and I'm not sure he has anything to give beyond what he's doing today. I'm still working on being OK with just being, in this moment.

That may be true. One day at a time okay? No need to put the cart before the horse.
81 1,776 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85
If your W were to do a 180 and want to come back, what would your answer be?

Well now, that goes to the heart of my therapy, doesn't it?

For the first 90 days, I would have run into her arms sobbing myself. No question. I was even writing love poems and love ballads to her for the first 60 days -- I didn't send any of them, but I sure composed them. I was even having dreams in which she told me it was all a mistake.

About the 90 day mark, already in therapy, I realized that taking her back was not automatic. I viewed her walking out without notice, and some of the scurrilous accusations by her attorney, as acts of betrayal. Acts of treason. She also emptied out the bank account and took the best car that morning, and tried to starve me out of the house! [She learned a lot from her liberal friends about how to maximize her side during a hostile divorce. That's another story.] I've learned a lot in my few weeks here on DB, and might find it easier to forgive her, but I still fell betrayed. After 30 years!

Now, one year from BD / D-Day, I am very sobered by what has happened. Sandi's rules tell the LBH to judge actions not words, and my ex's actions in the 18 months she planned the divorce, and first six months after serving me, have been unworthy of the lovely Christian woman I married so many years ago.

First off, I would be suspicious that maybe "getting back together" was a ruse, that she wanted me to talk my heart out and let my guard down, all the while taping my words, so as to gain leverage in the divorce settlement. Very important given the crap she has already done.

Second, there would be so many "whys?" she would have to answer for me. She was completely wrong about me in so many ways (e.g., her attorney accused me of having anger problems and that she was in fear of her safety) so I would need to know the truth about that.

I would make a condition as follows -- we must go into couples therapy. I would need to be satisfied with the answers to my ever so many whys. Then, just then, we might be able to work on getting back together.
59 1,457 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by mtb1981
Sounds like you're doing pretty good, L. I agree with Steve that your W is trying to get back into the MBR. The old reverse psychology of "why would I want to move back to the MBR" and the we need to tell the kids because they are wondering why she's not in the MBR are pretty good signs. It's a power move. She had control in the relationship when she said she wanted to D and you didn't. She expects to get ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING she wants. I also believe this is why she is putting the snippets of goodwill out there. She can feel you moving forward and doesn't like it. She's trying to lure you back in. She needs to know that you're still her plan B. Right now, all signs are pointing to the fact that you won't be plan B. She does not like this one bit. Stay on guard and keep up the good DB'ing. Gotta give you credit, you're doing pretty good for a noob...;)

Thanks for the support mtb, I'm only really just starting to fully get the detaching process. I started last week withdrawing more than actually detaching, I've realised this and am tweaking it as I go. It's quite a fine line to establish.

Keeping my wits about me and settling in to this new way of life. I just need for her to slow down! She seems to be running at warp speed.

Just finished my run, thanks for your input
43 728 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 08:38 PM
I think the fact that you agreed to him taking S2 for weeknight dinners and he came back with an excuse why he couldn't says it all. Probably dawned on him that if he took S2 you could go out on a dinner date! Just keep giving him little bits of rope and let him hang himself. And keep all the correspondence. The more things he turns down, the weaker his case for custody.
33 669 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 08:23 PM
Unchien thanks for stopping by.
[quote]Another acquaintance of mine, for 15 years, knew that every September his XW was going to file a move-away request or something else that the court would not grant, but would require him to spend legal money and fight.

She won't change her behavior until her narrative changes. It may never change. Maybe she's in love with the fight. You can choose your own rules of engagement, including whether to ignore.[\quote]

The rules of engagement are some what dictated by her. She files something in court against me and I have no choice but to respond with my lawyer unless I want a summary judgement against me. I have been taken to court about every 3 months since last February. She has lost every time but the stress and anxiety it causes and the financial strain is horrendous.

Engagement by me has been ignoring attacks or accusations but answering co-parenting questions when they come up. I have never sent her an email criticizing her or attacking her just responses to direct questions as it relates to D14. Example, she said D14 was not responding to her texts about their upcoming visitation and asked me if I would get D14 to respond to her. This was a reasonable request and I replied back that I had talked with D14 and she would respond going forward. She followed up with accusations of me not being a good co-parent to which I did not respond.
44 2,833 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 02:04 PM
Kids are so much smarter than we give them credit for. LBSs always worry about whether or not kids will know which parent is at fault. They will. Even if not right away.
91 1,666 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 01:38 PM
I am sorry that your friend has passed away. Treasure the many memories of the times you shared with her.

Now, DnJ, it's time to start a new thread.
105 3,614 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 12:24 PM
Hi Gordie

It saddens me to read about where you are at, probably because your situation had much more potential and at the time you were ready to move out your W seemed to realise some things. Unfortunately she has returned inwards and isn't in a place to want to let alone work towards a better M.

Did you make the right decision when you decided not to leave. Some may argue that it is allowing this situation to continue. But I'd like to look at it another way.

You can see she isn't right (as in ok not being right or wrong). She's not herself and she's definitely not happy. In your situation there is no wondering about that. Once separated, the unknown makes us wonder and the LBS usually assumes things are going well for the WAS because they now have what they wanted. Still at home or separated she still has to go through her crisis.

Your aim was/is to save your M. Being still "together" is closer to that objective than being separated. Whereas separation in some cases can help the WAS see their priorities change and they realise the true value of what they are leaving, in many cases it's an extra barrier to getting back to happiness together.

Living as ye are sure isn't fun and can be extremely difficult because you see constantly the differences between how you'd like to interact and the reality. That isn't easy to live with. I would also add it is no way to live indefinitely. Until the day you decide you prefer to stop living that way, your focus needs to be on how you are going to live in cohabitation. I'll expand on that in the next paragraph. Beforehand know that you are living that way because of a choice you made. This isn't a critic but know that is a choice you can change too. There is no pressure to decide today but know you have that power.

Now back to the how. How are you living? Are you living or surviving? It's important to take care if yourself. First advice that I would give you is to avoid focusing on the negative. By that I really mean on what is missing from your R. That leads on to the huge topic of expectations and intentions and the difference with reality. But that's a topic you surely know by now!! By focusing on what isn't there you don't see what is there.

You do seem to have accepted your situation as being as it is. That's good, but I suspect a part of you hasn't fully accepted it, which brings me back to my previous point.

It's good you have friends that you can turn too when down. That's great. Don't bottle things up BUT I would also avoid constantly pouring out about how bad things are. It's related to the point about what you focus on. I remember a story about a W who constantly bad mouthed her H to everyone around her. When she realized that this wasn't good or helpful she decided to stop. But her mother and others would refer to H as she had done previously and when she tried to state positive stuff about him there was resistance because they had been conditioned to thinking of him negatively. But more importantly the Person talking is also influencing their own brain.

It's great you have a strong dad role. I hear you in that it's probably not a fair sharing of parenting, but you are building a huge base for a great relationship with your kids going forward. That is priceless. Look at Irish and his R with his girls.

So what are you doing for fun. Every day do something you enjoy.

Get back to striving

As for the OM question from another poster, I think it's irrelevant in your case. Even if there is someone which I have a doubt, she isn't well. This isn't to excuse anything and everything. You need to know and respect your boundaries. Know how you would react if it occurred and then don't focus on it. Focus o you.

You have your evenings free or at least W free. Use them. Watch series you like, do hobbies, work out..... the list is endless.

Gotta go.

Best wishes
67 4,773 Read More
For Newcomers
09/21/20 10:30 PM
Do you think you could be reconciling/piecing and YOU not realize it? I read Steve's response, and if I'm understanding what he's saying, I agree, at least to a point.......especially when a couple is living together and still shares the same bed. I can understand it in that type situation. In my sitch, we didn't start cuddling and slowly build up to discover ourselves in piecing. There was a decision made, first! I would either continue contacting OM and leave my H, or end all contact with OM and commit to working on the M. I couldn't have it both ways. There wasn't going to be any cuddles or kisses until that critical decision was made, and made quickly. (Not that I wanted his kisses, but you get what I'm saying.) He wasn't going to court me while I tried to decide between the two men. So, that was done. We didn't jump back into bed the next night, after I had decided to do the right thing, but we eventually got there. Here's the thing, although we still lived together, my H & I had not been sleeping together for several years, so you might say it was an event when we starting sharing the same room. wink I think not sharing the same bed for a long time, and having old wounds from a SSM, makes it more difficult when you've been married a long time. It was awkward, and uncomfortable, b/c that level of intimacy can bring all those old raw emotions right into the bed with you. It's part of the "work" we had to do. It's not that way for every couple, but it was for us.

For the most part, I tend to think you would be aware if reconciliation was taking place. It's up to the couple as to the words that said, conditions made, etc. I think a lot of it depends upon what has taken place that led them to the brink of D (i.e. affair, abuse, prison, addiction, etc.). There are couples, however, who continue to live in limbo for most of their M lives, b/c nothing is ever resolved. Sometimes, things get a little better, and sometimes it gets a little worse..........but it's still limbo, b/c one of them refuses to work on the MR, and at the same time, they won't leave. Even MWD says there has to be cooperation from the other spouse! IMHO, reconciliation comes first, and then you work to piece your MR back together. If that sounds confusing, you are welcome to read this thread about it. It's under my name, but a LBW by the name of Blu helped, and we wrote from the viewpoint of the WW and the LBW. Definition and Guidelines for Piecing

You aren't accidentally falling into piecing your M. If anything, YOU are on the verge of becoming a WAH. Maybe this is what it took for you to drop the rope you have wrapped around her so tightly. It would have been so much better if you had simply detached from the drama, stopped having R discussions, etc. I don't think a spouse can detach when he is keeping a running record of how many days it's been seen they had sex, the last kiss, last argument, last R talk, the BD, or whatever. This method, IMHO, keeps it fresh in your mind, and therefore, it keeps the pain and resentment very fresh. So, now you are so mentally & emotionally exhausted until it's breaking you down.......to the point you will be ready to get out of the M, just to get some type of stress relief. I don't know how successful that works in getting relief, but you can ask some of these other guys who have been there.

Reflecting back to when your W had an EA, how was that resolved between the two of you? I mean, was she remorseful? Did she genuinely apologize for the pain she caused you (and whatever else was involved......lies, deceit, betrayal, etc.)? Did she take responsibility for the A? Was it after the EA that she no longer wanted to work on the MR, or did it actually start before the EA? Perhaps you didn't have a problem forgiving her, since it wasn't an PA, IDK. However, I suggest there was never true healing for the MR after the EA, and that's why the MR continued to deteriorate. I suspect your W was "numb" quite sometime before the EA happened. I also suspect that her sexual desire was not fully restored. I can relate to so much of your story.

I don't know how many children your W wanted to have in addition to the two, before she had to have a hysterectomy. I don't know how young she was when she had the operation. It does affect some women to know they can no longer birth a child. There are some physical side effects, with the loss of estrogen, unbalanced hormones, etc. These issues can lead to low sex drive (or no sex desire at all). The good news is modern medicine can usually make a big difference. I had a SSM for years. I had an Internet A, which had temporarily jump-started my sex drive, but when the A ended......so did my sex drive. I won't get into all of it, but just to say that I felt dead on the inside a long time before the A, and it was the excitement and ego food in the A that jump-started my sex drive. However, it was very short lived. It was sometime later that I was referred to a hormone balancing specialist. The doctor said my sex hormones had "flat-lined", along with other health issues I was having at the time. He said he didn't know how I was able to roll out of bed everyday. So, it was bad. And then, it got real good! smile By that, I mean I took HRT, and knew what it was like to have a healthy sex drive. There is help out there!

So, back to your sitch. You have been under a strain for quite a while, and it's taking a toll. Maybe you can't help the way you are, but it seems to me that you've caused part of that strain on yourself. I don't know a lot of the backstory, but if you're like most newcomer LBH's, you go nuts at the thought of no action. You want a list of the next steps, nonstop. Wish we could oblige, but it doesn't work that way. I will tell you this much, it's all about your attitude. You can look at this shutdown as a blessing, or a curse. You can throw away that journal, or whatever it is, where you keep track of every little move by your W, and where you grade it as positive or negative. It's not a positive force in your life, and you're losing you mind! How can you stop focusing on her when you are constantly grading her every action? You don't understand detaching b/c the thought scares you to death. You are co-dependent on a woman who doesn't want you, and it make you unattractive in her view. So, you are your worst enemy!

You want to know the next step? Get your eyes off the one who doesn't want you, stop pursuing & pressuring her, and get your male confidence. You are responsible for your own happiness. You've read somewhere close to two dozen books, have a coach, and IC and I don't how many MC's.......and you are just as miserable today as you were in the beginning of the sitch. Sometimes, you can have too many sources of advice. Know what I mean? The Pastor, friends, counselors, books............and you just get more confused. So, why don't you give a few of these sources a rest, at least where the MR is concerned? Focus on what makes you feel good about yourself. I'm not saying to be completely selfish, but you don't have to have a spouse in order to become a better version of yourself. If you want to read self help books to work on yourself as a man.......that's fine. (I just wonder if you are the type of reader who will skip parts of the book, b/c you think it doesn't apply.) Anyway, let your W figure out what she wants, rather than you trying to convince her. I'm not telling you to be a jerk toward her, just stop trying to manipulate her decisions.

I maintain that when a woman threatens divorce, but does nothing about it, it's b/c she benefits from being legally married to her H. Your W is a SAHM. That's a pretty big benefit in itself. When she gets a FT job to support herself, then she might actually move forward with a D.........unless, of course, she expects you to financially support her to stay home, although the kids are in school. Guess that's another subject for another time.

96 4,329 Read More
For Newcomers
09/21/20 09:28 PM
Look fear in the eye and don't blink. My W told me a couple years ago about selling the house and was going on and on and I had enough of her making me scared. I told her to call any realtor she wanted to and get the value and list the home. Then she questioned another thing about the home and I answered quickly and unemotionally. Then she started an R talk b/c how could this be so easy for me?

So it's normal, don't let it get to you.
14 273 Read More
Surviving the Big D
09/21/20 07:21 PM
I'm working on my attitude today and so far, it seems to be helping. Of course, I started the day off asking for Friday off and my boss absolutely supported that, so knowing I only have 4 days to be here this week certainly helped. LOL Sparky and I had a nice weekend. Saturday, we had supper with my family to celebrate my sister's birthday. Yesterday, we just relaxed at home and had down time together. We found a new show on Netflix to binge called "Ratched" and it was fantastic. We have one episode left, so we'll likely watch that tonight while we eat supper, but it was a good show. I had never heard of it, but then today I read several things about it online and apparently critics hated it. Oh well...………

I made homemade brownies yesterday and brought them to work this morning and left them in the copy room near my office. Taking all the Covid crap into account, I placed the individual brownies in Ziploc bags so that people didn't have to touch the same plate or touch the same utensils to get one...they could just grab a bag and go. Several people have gone out of their way to thank me, which is not at all why I did it, but it is still nice to hear. I just think that we need more of something around here to get the morale moving in the right direction and I'm willing to do my part, however small that may be.

Sparky's birthday is Sunday. I'm taking off Friday to make bake him a cake. Our food from Katz' Deli is also slated to arrive Friday, so we will have that to look forward to for supper. I'm still waiting to hear back from his daughter, but we are going axe throwing and having dinner with his mom in addition to his Sunday Zoom with Jet Tila. I'm not sure if his daughter is joining us for axe throwing or just for dinner with his mom, but hopefully she can do one or the other.

I'm just counting down the days to Friday now...……….ready for this week to be over and to move on. Next week will be mid-term week on our campus and we are still in person (for those classes that were meeting that way from the beginning) which is both surprising and exciting to me. I was so afraid we already would've been sent back to fully online. (Knock on wood real quick!) We will officially go back to fully online the week after Thanksgiving break just so as not to worry about students going home for a week and bringing stuff back, but my class will be over the week before Thanksgiving, so I don't have to worry about it. Fingers crossed we can stay in person until then...……….(or those who are in person can stay that way, I'm fully online anyway...hard to explain).
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