One of the last and memorable conversation her and I had was with daughter (15 the time) about how Dad could look after her, and how he loves her, and so on. A conversation XW wanted to ensure D15 heard, just in case something happened to Mom. And lo and behold, poof, something happened to Mom. One of those overlooked signs of a MLCer slipping away.
This really illustrates what a lot of us refused to believe. That the roots of what happened were buried deep and things were in-train long before they blow up.
My own now ex-wife pushed a few times telling me that she "was not good" and that I needed to find someone else months before bomb-day. Her affair had already started at that point and while I had suspicions I discounted them.
We often don't see things that are right in front of us.
Stay safe out there. Your kids are staying put or have they all come home to roost for the duration?
Beth - I wouldn't respond to his text. Maybe take a day or two to process some more. I think it probably helped you to hear what H had to say and how he felt, even though it's confusing; ultimately, he doesn't know what he wants either way and his behavior underlines that. I am sure he meant all of what he said at the time that he said it, but is still on that pendulum. The more he can still that on his own, the better. I wouldn't give any thought to his motivations - he probably has no idea what they are anyhow (I know that is supremely hard).
Journaling - Not only did I have first class tickets to the crazy train, I now realize I'm driving the crazy train.
At the end of the evening I text H that I had a few minutes - what's up. There were texts back and forth. He asked to call and I said not available. Texts continued. He called... I ignored but stated I would call back but if he began to bully me I would not continue.
I have agreed he can come this weekend for his things. He was pushing about getting his bike today (I had offered it Monday but he was busy... he does not care if I'm busy today)
My stipulations were:
I will pick him up and bring him here to get the bike and his mail. He can bring totes so I can pack up his clothes for later pick up.
He went off on how he can't stand to be in a car with me for any length of time. He had a ride and she would drop him off (he didn't mean to drop the word she... he had been trying to say friend). I made it clear that SHE will NOT be coming to my house. He tried to play off it was a female friend and I didn't know her name.... WHATEVER. I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
He went on to state his parents were going to help and they were hurt when he told them I did not want them here. I told H I had nothing against his parents. It did not feel cool to have his parents there helping to move my H out of our marital home.
He got upset said I was being difficult and controlling. I asked that he see my perspective and working in my comfort zone. He then said I could keep the bike and boat and the payments... I told him I would pack up his stuff and let him know when it was ready to be picked up. He replied that he did not trust me. He then said "you know what? keep it all. I will just 100% start over".
He was being irrational so I ended the call.
He called back. Not sure why because it continued. I said I needed to go and I would think things over but I needed some space. H retorted "you have space... I've been giving you space... let me have my stuff and then its all your space" I ended the call again.
Somehow I called back. I was calm. AND, I did a major DB no no. I told him I was dealing with a lot of hurt. That he got his wish and my hurt was probably exceeding his now. He really calmed down and was quiet. I said it wasn't always bad - he replied he hadn't said that it was (yes, he had). I said you shouldn't have left. H replied - did you expect me to go on being unhappy? I said no but you should have let me get my SH*T together. H said - you should have done that 6yr ago. <<<<<<<<<<< THIS, this was my downfall.... I know better than to go there. How did I again dip my toe into that river of stench?
I said I needed to go to bed and he could call in the morning and said good bye.
One thing I will say is that H is completely okay with sitting silent on the phone. He is never the one to end it unless he is super angry which has only been twice. I'm always the one to end the call - he seems in no hurry. Business is taken care of so why keep me on the phone. He isn't asking which dog kept me up all night being sick. I don't get it - probably means nothing. I just make sure I'm the one to wrap things up.
I haven't spoken to my in laws since this went down. I certainly didn't want them to have hurt feelings. So I texted MIL just a simple hope they are safe and healthy given the current situation of the virus.
MIL immediately texted back the longest text I've ever gotten from her. Stated she was glad to hear from me. Had been thinking about me and S18. Asked me to hug S18 for her. Felt bad for all the 2020 seniors that will not have graduation. Asked me to let her know what we will be doing for S18 to celebrate. She was praying for us. Left a short prayer and ended it with love you.
I just responded back that I would hug S18 for her. Will probably have a big party for S18 once things are safe again. I sent love to her and FIL. I did not say one thing about H or our sitch and she was lovely enough to not bring it up.
I woke up this am to more texts from H - he needed my help so he could use the printer and scanner and that I needed to sign affidavit and to call him when I woke up.
UHMMMM --- I'm sure his father has a printer. WTH.
I called. He was clearly asleep though having texted me an hour before. He said he needed to print real estate docs. The affidavit was something the lender needed stating he had access to funds in our joint acct in his town. It was early. That was weird. I just said I would think about it. He got mad and said he knew I wasn't going to help him hung up.
UGH... I texted I hadn't said no but he would need to send me what he expected me to sign.
I called back... he was asleep. I tried talking to him about if he was okay using the printer/scanner in the home with me then he certainly would be okay to be in a car with me. He could come use the printer but I would need to pick him up and then he would leave with the bike and it was an over and done deal.... he literally feel asleep on the phone. Got him to wake up again... repeated it... he mumbled... I just said call me when you wake up.
He was clearly up all night steaming bout our convo... but lets face it... I didn't sleep to well either.
So there you go anonymous internet board - all my poor decisons in the last 12hr laid bare and off my chest.
I still want to please him. I still want him to reconsider his path. <<<< THIS HAS TO STOP.
I'm the one driving the crazy train. I have to figure out how I'm going to drop this rope ---- why do I have to help him at all??? Was he willing to do anything I needed to help me???
Glad to see you are back on the boards - especially if you find your anxiety spiking again.
I don't know if I've posted this to you before, so forgive me if I already have. Remember that WASes or MLCers are on a very extended timeline. So when you speak of 9 months, it really is a drop in the bucket for this thing - and it is very possible that the reason that your W is ill-informed on the process is because she still has no clue what she wants. My sit had been going on for 20 months. That I know of. And my W told me at BD that it had been nearly 1.5 years even before that that she had been "feeling differently". So take that into consideration.
Also - don't forget that this has no basis in logic. If you read your posts, you will see that you are rooted in logic - indeed you are the captain of logic here at DB: you want S, then we have S. You want D, we get D. I get L, you get L, we go to mediation, we sign the papers, we are done and we go our separate ways.
But W is not operating on logic. I think you can see that very clearly.
Here are a few questions to ask yourself: Do you find it odd that W has no clue what is going on? Why do you think that is? Is she behaving like the person you knew before all this went down? Do you think it is based out of spite or vindictiveness?
I say all that not to get you to change the outcome of your sit. It will be what it will be. But I say that to show that your anxiety is elevated because you are still quite attached. And making decisions quickly when you may not be ready for them is probably not going to help matters.
I dont know what the answer for you is, U - you'll have to figure that out for yourself. I know you need to worry about your finances and your kids, that obviously is top priority. But I would caution you to remember that your W is absolutely not thinking with the same logic and reasoning that you are. And I think understanding that will help you a lot going forward.
Food for thought...
Take care buddy - stay safe with all this craziness out there.
I think it's really simple. Keep doing what you're doing including sticking to your boundaries. Keep your expectations at zero. You are definitely not plan A you are still plan B. I'll give her letter a F for fuching bs.
DS9 and U - forgot to thank you both for your words of encouragement. I hope you all are well during these crazy times.
The pandemic continues to dominate all aspects of life. GAL has been reduced dramatically - but I do what I can to give myself space, give W space. Walks mostly and not being home as much as I could be. It is difficult where I live, though, our towns are quarantined - everything is closed, all stores, parks, etc and police are stopping all cars and questioning where everyone is going. If it's not essential work-related, they turn you back and tell you to go home. Fines are being levied for those who disobey.
Detachment being what it is, I have grown accustomed to WAW's fluctuating periods of wanting to interact and not. I should note that these interactions are still very few and far in between, and they may only be because of the current crisis. Or not? I have no idea. Everything has been upside down for me since September of 2018 - I can't trust anything.
It is difficult to believe that the situation has been this way for almost 20 months. On WAW side, It seems to have taken 6 months for every phase during all of this. 6 months for W's detachment and pulling away, 6 months of intense anger S, D, and selling house talk, 6 months of slowing down/calming. I'm not sure what phase W is in now, I won't know until it is over and I won't know how long it will take.
For the LBS side I seem to have been in similar time frame of phases - 6 months of devastation and severe depression, fear, anger, etc, 6 months of detachment, 6 months of accepting things are over. Now I'm also in an unknown phase and trying to juggle all of this craziness with the pandemic.
It has grown a little more comfortable in the house. There were a few periods last year where I was right on the border of pulling the trigger and leaving. I'm glad I didn't- it would have been a knee jerk reaction based on a momentary emotion. I have all of you wonderful people here to thank for walking me through that and helping me to get out of my own perspective during that phase.
A few weeks ago W made another momentary touch and go. It was fleeting but I kindly and calmly turned it down. It would have put pressure on both of us and I'm not wanting to do that. Plus I'm not interested in pursuing someone that doesn't know what they want. Too confusing. I can tell W is still working through things and I have no interest in getting in the way of that. It will only complicate matters and I need things to be simple. I need to be able to trust - and I am not there yet.
That's about all for now. I am going to try and catch up on some other situations. I apologize for dropping off the map but as I posted above, I have to keep myself guarded more these days and coming here requires the opposite. Know that i do care - and i wish you all nothing but the best.
I agree with vapo and you try to low ball her to get her out. I think you have to wave the proverbial white flag and work on detachment and yourself.
I lived with my ex for 16 months prior to her filing for D. Not ideal but it was 16 months of seeing my kids everyday. Command respect and show her your best self. Now in the time to become the person you want to be. If you want to kick your porn habit then work on kicking it.
I'm not going to lie your, next few years are going to be challenging but you will over come it and come out the other side.
The truth of the matter is that life can be really $hitty sometimes. It's about how you respond to it is what counts.
~j~ I had an oopsie moment with 00. I text him something about D3, and a few mintues later he finds me. I assumed he had read my message, because 99.9% of the time he has his phone/is on his phone. Oh boy was I wrong!
He asked what I was doing, stated mumbling about something.. I explained what I was doing & asked in a very hasty manor, "Didn't you read my text!? You always on/have your phone.."
00: "I'm DONE!!...I was doing xyz! "..(some house care) and he stormed off. I felt bad. I gave it a few mintues, and found him to sincerely appoligize. I REALLY thought he had read it. 00: " I don't want to talk..I don't want to say anything.." okay, I understand, I assumed you read it...I walked away.
Within minutes he was super chatty, suggesting solutions to the sitch I text him about. It was as if the oopsie didn't happen. But MAN was he mad. His feelings really got hurt, or he made me think that.
Any way, lesson learned! Keep my thoughts to myself.
Journaling ~ So interesting couple of days in the covid quarantine household. The change in Hís mood and behaviour towards me in the last two days has been nothing short of dramatic. Sunday it was L this and we need to talk about selling the house and yesterday and today it has literally been normal conversation, some jokes shared with laughs, helpful with numerous little things around the house and some things that I was specifically working on...lingering longer in common spaces.
I can honestly and wholeheartedly say that my expectations remain at zero. Iíve read enough on here to know that this in no way signals a sudden change of heart on his end. Heck It could just be loneliness with this lockdown.
But why such a seemingly dramatic change? Major major glimpses of H and much less confusion and hurt on his face if that makes sense. Despite me carrying on and focusing on myself (and making awesome meals I might add) I canít help but feel a little nervous like heís up to something. Does anyone have any insight related specifically to a big change in behaviour even tho itís only been two days? Is it usually followed by some form of another BD? I just like being a little prepared. Again Iím in NO WAY feeling like ďheís coming aroundĒ but this is the first time in almost 8 months Iíve seen anything close to ďnormalĒ behaviour so Iím finding it kinda confusing/ interesting. (For lack of a better word)
I don't have a lot of good advice to offer but I can give you a (((HUG)))
Its okay to cry... just be sure not to do it in front of H.
I think your plan of starting exercise is an excellent one!!! I hate exercising but it does help and it keeps me in focus... I just put it off as long as possible and moan the entire time... but I'm always happy when I'm done.
I could tell she was starting to get annoyed from her short responses ("Mmmhmm, yep.") so, I explained that I'm trying to grow as a person and so I'm trying to work on being more aware of things I should be thankful for and expressing my gratitude. She said I didn't have to do it anymore.
I have been where you are. I see three things:
#1) she doesn't believe your changes are real. She sees them as manipulative. #2) You should stop explaining. That sets you back. Make changes. Do not talk about them. #3) Keep doing it. It is the right thing to do. Do not let her control you.
How she responds should not be your measuring stick.
Your measuring stick should be internal. Did I make a positive change in my behavior? Plus one. Did I do something I know I should not have done? Minus one.
I found a package on the counter for me when I got home today. Well, I didnít notice it until after the kids and I had dinner. I didnít think that I ordered anything.
It was a gift from H. The note said: ďThought of you. Early Motherís Day gift!Ē It is a nursing pendant Ė heart and angel with a prayer engraved on it. Boy, was I shocked.
I sent H a text message thanking him for it, and he responded that he was thinking of me, but if I didnít want it I could return it. That made me a bit sad. Those ever present feelings of rejection must be a huge burden to carry. I assured him it was lovely, and told him how the message on it was timely today and told him why. (this was truth).
This on the same day I get a note from my attorney stating his attorney wants a copy of the draft settlement agreement so he can discuss it with my attorney. I had discussed it briefly with H over the phone over the weekend, and had told him I wasnít so sure what I really wanted in it. That my attorney was strongly advising me to split all assets at this time. I told H I didnít know I wanted to do that. Before I received the gift, I had emailed H what his attorney asked for, and asked him if he wanted to discuss it before the attorneys did. He hasnít responded yet.
Iím o.k. as I mull this all over. Praying, and sitting quietly, waiting for God to guide me.
Originally Posted by OwnIt
Just remember to keep those expectations in check and try not to have a timeline in your mind.
Good reminder, OwnIt. I do tend to want to know things NOW, and learning to be patient and let events unfold has been a struggle more often than I care to admit. I believe I am in a good place now where the waiting doesnít make me so very anxious.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Relationships are built upon trust. You are creating a new relationship with H, therefore are concerned about how he sees and trusts you.
Originally Posted by DnJ
For what itís worth, I think your fear isnít him reading about this, it is that you did it and donít want to cover it up.
Trust. This has been on my mind a lot lately. I think you hit on something here, DnJ. There are so many things that H covered up, I donít want to do what was so hurtful to me. Iíve been thinking a lot about how I would ever be able to trust H again. I would love to hear how reconciled people work through this. I guess the answer is if we got to a place where we decided to reconcile, I may never fully trust again, but perhaps I could still have a satisfying, joyful life anyway. Maybe not.
In any event, itís not an answer I need today, or next week, or even next month.
Oz, just checking out the newcombers thread... I am usually in MLC and am just so touched by your strength and your courage. I pray you are doing well in your fight and that you are receiving all the love you can from everyone and that you know, even strangers are sending out prayers and light. Blessings to you... godspeed
Hey Cardinal- I hope you are well. It is a special time of year at least for me. I know it's hard to live with someone who you knew better than you knew yourself and now they are a total stranger. The thing I realized too is that my H is a stranger to himself too.
I know he is. When I stop looking at him wanting to see the man I knew, I see the one he is now and the pain in his eyes is debilitating. He is so lost. Even when he is withdrawn, angry, resentful (hasn't been like that in a while as we don't talk enough for me to see that), I can see how very hurt and tortured he is.
Seeing that, knowing that his pain is at least as deep as mine, and maybe even worse because at least I can acknowledge where it is stemming from and what I need to do to address me and heal me... but he really can't. He is so very lost so very confused about how to even begin. When we tried to share his pain in MC, he couldn't really articulate it. He is avoidant so his pain will go on and on even possibly longer than it should because he can't address it.
All they are trying to do to avoid the pain will be useless. Because the pain is internal, in their mind and their soul. So until they know this and are willing to look inside versus outside (i.e. OW, drugs, friends, etc), they will be tortured and lost.
I hate that we are all suffering and going through this. I hate that so many of us are broken. But I also know we can be reborn, remade into something better. Something new. Something so strong that nothing will ever threaten us again. I am praying that for you and for all of us.
Until then, take care of kitty. Take care of you. Let H do what he does. Let him go and embrace YOU.
Thanks, Kindly! I am continuing to keep expectations low. Seek out support online and with friends/family who are willing to listen. Trying not to overwhelm people. Trying to manage my own mental space. I have a lot of healing to do. A lot of things to analyze. I am starting to put a list of places together I want to see once this is over. Places in and around where i live that i haven't seen yet.
At least I am trying to GAL even just in my mind. It helps, but the hours do drag on sometimes. It's hard. I know it's hard for all of us. I do so love my family. I do actually so love me... so very much.
We took a walk around our neighborhood with the dog. It was so nice even though the sun came and went. It was nice though to get out. To feel like the world is a little bigger than this house.
Life is good despite these challenges. Maybe even because of it. Blessings
Last night the W called the kids on FaceTime. I was outside just sitting on the deck enjoying the stars, while the kids watched a movie together. Apparently my daughter finally answered and said just stop calling no one wants you to bother anymore. This was really out of character for my kid, so I asked her what was going on. Well she broke down and cried, doesnít understand why mommy left her. What happened to her mom. Why doesnít mom try to see or talk to them more than a text in the morning followed by a phone call at night. Idk if it was a mistake or it, but I figured itís time to go to the source. Iíve asked all these questions myself and all I ever get is ignored or Iíll do better. Never does, but hey, why not let her daughter try. Theyíre counselor says they need to be more open with their feelings, so I call, she answers, I say you me youngest has some questions for you. They talk. She asks why canít she have her old mommy back. The one who thought they were the most important people in the world. The one that was always there. Her mom actually gets mad at her and says itís their fault because when she does text or call they donít respond all the time. Then tell my youngest she has asked to see them but we fought so she wasnít able too. I was floored. Well that was obviously a mistake. I took the phone immediately, and told her you arenít going to blame a child for your actions. And you sure arenít going to start lying when her sisters have texts proving you blew them off. And i immediately got blamed for treating her like she was stupid because I was calm. Iím not kidding, you canít make this stuff up.
I really donít even know where to begin with this person. I really donít. I have no idea who this is. But on the bright side today I absolutely blasted music for 90 mins while making dinner and felt more like myself than I have in years. I know the peace I feel wonít last for long, but I really enjoyed it while it lasted.
Things not going well. Foolishly I let him come over for dinner on Sunday (2 days ago). The kids wanted him over, he wanted to be here. He cooked, he cleaned up, he enjoyed his garden and the wildlife, he drunk wine with me, he left. He texted me to thank me for dinner and a lovely evening.
For some reason I went into meltdown. I felt used, that we were just a convenient stop-gap until he could get back to his other life post-lockdown, that dinner with us was better than dinner alone. Next morning I send him a cold text asking not to come over anymore, that we felt used, that Iíd bring the rest of his stuff to his house later that day. That neither of us could move on while we were in constant contact. He said he understood.
I have felt terrible ever since. My D16 says it was the right thing to do. That heíd never miss us if he keeps coming round. Today I cried buckets and felt the lowest I have ever felt. I txt H and told him I felt low. He was supportive, like a good friend might be. I saw him when he dropped the kids off and cried some more. I feel like I am really failing at DBing. Iíve had to re-read the Ďyou will not dieĒ sticky, because that is how bad I feel today.
I meant the first interpretation (and didn't mean for things to sound so ominous!).
In my case, once I accepted that trying to have a nice, amicable split was leading me to make poor decisions, I was able to see things more clearly, start being more assertive, and start taking control of my own life. (It's a process, I'm not there yet!) I was trying to continue being a "We" instead of "her" and "me".
Once your mindset starts to change this all becomes easier. You are just handling your business in a pleasant, non-confrontational way.
Ok, I'm going to jump on my soapbox here. It saddens me to see advice being given, and accepted, that you should not attempt to co-parent with a WAS if they are attempting to do so, particularly where the children are very young.
If you want an amicable resolution of child custody issues, don't think for a moment that refusing to discuss them with a willing parent is a good idea. And if you can't see yourself as a team member in your child's upbringing (where the other parent is willing and not abusive), then perhaps you should look at your own motivations. Be angry with your spouse for cheating on you and leaving you, but not for trying to be a parent to your children. Read the threads of the parents on this site and others that brought their children into the mess and see which parent the kids stop speaking to. You may find it eye-opening.
Courts want parties to work these things out. Yes, attorneys can be useful to facilitate that process. But why someone who claims to want reconciliation would refuse to discuss or inject the court system into a parent's desire to have a co-parenting discussion is really beyond me. Save the lawyers for the time you can't have a discussion with your spouse. Before you get mad at your spouse for doing something you've asked them not to do, confirm that you are on the right side of the law in your state.