It does feel very wrong . It will feel that way for quite awhile .
Oh how I feel for you with the lack of a real fight . Look at it a different though . You have grown to not allow yourself to even get to that point . Same here I took back control of how I handle my emotions and what allow around my children . I wasn’t much of a yeller to begin with but was a push over . Took a long time to balance getting my point across in just a few words and most of it not being negotiable. Boundaries . Your H saying it was to keep the peace is just an excuse . Ignore it . Really just ignore it . They say all types of craziness .
Just a few words of advice when he asks what you have planned . I used to be an oversharer. Keep it short . I have plans or errands . I have a little name I call it . Ghost mode . I just drop off . If it was not kid related that needed attention I would not respond . I will always respond to my children though .
It’s very sad . Even while I’m somewhat I would say in repair . I am a way different person .
It’s been I think about 8-9 months for BD for me . Some of the things that I can tell you that have slowly come out when H does talk are : you gave me space , you didn’t pressure me , you didn’t need or want anything from me , you were rock solid if I stayed or left . Very different than the spew he spit out with a list of everything I did wrong . I get a lot more of he’s fearful I will boot him .
Hang in there . It’s a long haul . Sending you hugs and kisses .
Thanks DnJ, Still pains and bruises in knees, palms, and mild headaches. The helmet did do its job though. It has a pretty good scrape where it covered my forehead. Prescription pain meds is good stuff too. I’ve been at half speed for a few days….
V, My days are full…one way or another! Instead of trying to put it all down, I’ll just start working backwards… since last night there was a minor blowup that applies…
Originally Posted by Valeska19
So what's the status with D19? Is she just working or thinking about college? I'm sure you see this but she is overcompensating and acting as a second mother. How are you actively combating this whilst gentle guiding her to be doing what typical 19 year olds should be?
about D19 -> D20!
First… Happy Birthday to D19! She turned 20 on Easter. I, S13 and D18 made a little family party for her. Decorations, cake, presents…. XW texted them in the afternoon and took them out to Texas Roadhouse for a birthday dinner.
D20 isn’t all that academic and wasn’t interested in college upon HS graduation. She did not complete the pre-requites for a college track. She has been working full time since then with child/after school care and swim lessons. (Side note: the place she works is owned/run by a woman and her two sons. OM is one of those sons...) She worked hard and got all her state certifications required for both skills. Her side gig is babysitting from all the recommendations she gets through her day job.
As a full time working young adult, she pays me each month household for expenses I itemize for her (water, electric, rent, etc…). This is about 2/3 or 3/4 of the actual costs but it is a step towards launching ... owning and being responsible for her life herself.
In the last six months she has expressed a desire to earn more, explored the idea of moving in with a friend and a shared apartment, and talked about a degree she might like to pursue. I responded to each by saying I would be happy to help her accomplish them. To walk her through what each would take …
For her, I control minimally other than household standards and requiring the shared chores get done. She does go out with friends, spends overnights, has friends over, ... her bedroom is her own space and so on. I try to treat her as the young adult she is. Guiding, not telling.
sisters minor blow up... and mom
Tonight I arrived home at 9:30p with D18 (trivia night at the pub and pick up D18 from gymnastics) to find XW’s vehicle in the driveway. XW apparently inside and upstairs with D20 and S13. D18 heads upstairs and I stay downstairs to finish some evening chores and finish chopping / putting away watermelon. I hear a lot of excited voices upstairs. Emotions seem to run hotter when XW is in the home. I call upstairs to D18 that it is her night to walk the dogs with me. One of our daily routines.
Several minutes later I hear excited voices... then D18 shouting with emotion and some anger... then a slammed door. Hers I think. More voices. Heavy footsteps. Sounds like XW going to the front door...then back... But now I also hear what sounds like the dog leashes. ???
Then I hear D20 come down the stairs... insistent and stressed, "What are you doing? "
XW emotional and maybe angry, something like, "taking the dogs out. .... **something** calming down"
D20, "That's not how this works mom. We have our routines! That's not how ANY OF THIS WORKS!"
XW, emotional, "I'm not doing this. I'm LEAVING!"
And she does with a huff and hard door close.
the rest of the story
D20 comes into the kitchen where I had just finished cutting up the watermelon, Dad, I'm walking the dogs with you tonight. Lets go. "
I know we'll talk while walking. This has been one of our routines. Each in nightly rotation has dog walking time to say whatever they want away from their siblings. I go upstairs to get my shoes and knock on D18's door, "D18, I'm going to walk the dogs now with D20. Do you want a hug first?"
I instruct S13 and then leave with D20 and dogs... after being squeezed tight and tears left on my shirt by D18. Barely out the door and D20,
OK, Dad, here's what happened... D18 and I misunderstood each other the other night when she walked instead of me I thought it was for my birthday as a present She thought we were exchanging days When you called for her, she came into my room insisting that it was my night I got flustered and emotional and I could tell I needed to calm down so I asked her to leave first so I could calm down She wouldn't leave and I asked her like twenty times I remember you told us our own rooms were OUR space and we could tell our siblings to leave and they had to, right?"
G, "Yes D20, that is true. I'll talk to D18 about it."
"Well, I couldn't answer D18 because I was all emotional, but I kept my cool this time, I managed myself!
And then Mom stepped in and told D18 to "come here right now" and pointed at the floor in front of her and told her to "calm down"
THAT never works and didn't and she is treating us like we are 12 and that is when she came downstairs and tried to walk the dogs
G, "Well, your mother might have been trying to do something nice for you. ... and there are memes about women being told to "just calm down"... LOL"
Yeah, well, it NEVER WORKS. And this is OUR space not hers We have OUR routines If she wants to do something nice she should go get us Starbucks or something.
G, "Yes, this is our space now. Our home. I appreciate your help in making it OUR home. You've helped with many of the things your mother used to do. I don't want you to take over her roles though. You are the big sister."
I know Dad. That IS how I try to do things. As big sister."
She does try to fit into a role of young adult participation in a household. She does try to keep it to big sister. Though she didn't start out that way... and we have talked about this before.
g
Sometimes I feel like skin and bones.
Skin and bones - Switchfoot
The wasteland is mine, mine alone The desert comes alive when no one's home Apocalyptic skies burning gold I walk these empty miles, I can't find a soul ... In my mind I'm miles away I'm miles away
Perhaps the work is on figuring out why you build resentment whenever you don't get to tell your wife what she is doing wrong? Or when she doesn't do it YOUR way.
I forgot to address this one. It wasnt resentment about not being able to criticise. It was resentment about not feeling able to have conversations about honestly fairly benign household issues because I knew it would be received as a personal attack. I didn't have the communication skills to bring these things up in the right way so i didnt and we rarely ever fought. Really some healthy conflict would have been good for us but it wasnt within our skill set. I see this in so many threads here where the couple would rarely fight until it hits the fan.
And yet - this is really good opportunity for you to see this dysfunctional dynamic you have - lead and follow.
Until I journaled it, the concept of 'H follows my lead' hadn't been a thought. And then you not only caught it, but highlighted it. Is this typical? Bc they've lost themselves and have just lived someone else's life, dreams, goals?
It seems a bit more complicated than that. Here are my thoughts from the bleacher seats.
It seems you and H are opposites. You seem like a "take charge" lady. On top of the bills, have the better job. Take care of the house. Total high functioner.
Your husband seems more chill.
Probably why you two were attracted to each other. You each posses traits the others wish they had more of. You probably push him. He probably relaxes you.
This dynamic works fine as long as the balance stays. But when it becomes unbalanced - cracks turn to chasms and things happen. Like the parent-child dynamic. The over/under functioner dynamic. Resentment for the one always doing most of the work. The need to rebel from the one being told to do more work. And the list continues.
You don't necessarily describe your H as someone who as always taken charge. In fact - you say that he often follows you. As you said - you take care of the bills, take the lead on the taxes..etc.
So from my perspective - it looks like your opposite attraction turned into an unbalanced relationship. And when that happens... BOTH people loose themselves to some degree.
If you are always telling H what could be beneficial to him, Where does he get the space to figure out his own answers on what's best for him?
If you are always swooping in to save him, how does he know he is confident to save himself?
Please do not take this as this is your fault. It is not. He is a grown man who is 100% responsible for his choices and processing his own feelings.
AND yet - when there is a dance... it's easier to follow when the steps are given to you. And yet - there is a part we all play.
So many people dodge this question on this board. We automatically go to MLC, previous trauma... etc. But what we fail to realize is that only addresses the coping strategy used to "deal with" whatever happened. We forget that something happened that caused them to use that unhealthy coping mechanism. So even if they learn better coping tools, the problem may still exist. Sometimes that is external. A family death. A traumatic event. Sometimes though... it is the marriage breaking down. Sometimes it is a dynamic that is no longer working.
Your marriage stands the best chance if you let him go. Loosen your grip on him that you've been unknowingly tightening over the years by doing so much for him. Yes - he may not choose you - and that is fvcking terrifying and heartbreaking. But if he does... he will do so because HE feels he's ready. Because he's confident again. Because he can see that you believe in him again.
You can't just say the words. You have to show him in your actions. And a big way is to stop being so "helpful", It's time to stop hiding behind that. It's time you see it as a more complicated answer. Yes.. part of it is from a loving place. But part of it is from another place too. Google "HFC" and "Too Much" and see if any of it rings true for you.
Originally Posted by MamaG
Originally Posted by Valeska19
He gives you the lead because he is too uncomfortable to take it - really. That's probably what the acting out is. False leading, false masculinity... that is much easier than taking responsibility and accountability. He's confused on who to be, how to be... and MG - there is not a d@mn thing you can do about it.
It's unfathomable for me to think that H living in a world of hurt for this long is chosen over making a change. When your actions bring this much loss and pain, how foggy are things that you can't open your eyes to a better path. Whether it's a path with or without me. I'm not expecting a specific outcome. But I will say, if stopping over for a couple hours brings H to experience warmth and love, how do you not flock to that world as a way to run from your current choices? How his logical so far removed from his brain?
I heard this in a book I'm reading and it's profoundly true. Paraphrasing of course.
Who are you to say that your H isn't exactly in the place he is needed to be in so he can learn this lesson. Perhaps it will lead to a final healing. Perhaps not.
Either way... you are not God... so who are you to say what lessons he needs to learn when.
And Finally leaving you with one of my favorite quotes.
“Compassion is not a relationship between the healer and the wounded. It's a relationship between equals. Only when we know our own darkness well can we be present with the darkness of others.” - Pema Chodron
Focus on yourself. On why you choose to avoid your why you own hardships, demons, traumas, etc.
It will take you alot farther than you continually trying to understand his.
I’m fairly new here but I feel like we might be feeling the same things. My H has been super nicer than usual lately and it’s so confusing. One second he’s telling me he will be out of the house by summer and the next he will be doing all the laundry. I’m starting to see it as his guilt but it’s mind boggling.
Rainbows and unicorns. Yep that’s what I think my H thinks he’s heading off too and leaving the kids and me behind.
I have had legal advice conversations with L from the start and I did have one this time last year correct. I don’t have them on retainer at present but can arrange for them to look over documents before i sign,
This is what I did. Though it may not fit all situations for sure. A little snooping on my part and I was much smarter on the law and finances than XW so I was sitting pretty good for negotiating with a reasonably cooperative WW who just wanted out to pursue OM in her passive aggressive way. I did refuse to sign anything or make the final mediation appointment until I had a legal review with a family law L recommended by a work friend. The L helped me understand the risks in the mediated documents based on several decades of L work. I ended up making very few changes.
I found a bit of peace when I came terms with it’s not that they can’t handle it while in crisis . Specifically they were never made to handle it . We always picked up the pieces for them and in my case his first wife and mother did the same . Excuses and never real accountability for hurt they caused . Lately I’ve shifted very far away from that . Whether the marriage survives or not . I’m just not sweeping anything under the rug to spare H feelings . I am far from cruel . Just direct . I deserve this . I’m not tolerating that . It’s not even a discussion. It’s extremely sad to watch from the outside . Like just watching a building burn to the ground but you know it has to .
Women want strong men . You can be nice but also strong . There’s a line there . I can tell you looking at the emotional mess H is it’s not portraying strong . It’s pretty pitiful to see someone who self destructs. Stay strong .
Just an update for me. I'm still awaiting the divorce decree. Its just a matter of time now. Regardless I've made the most of my time here and have adapted well to my new life. Business is going much better than I expected, I am finding plenty of time to reignite hobbies I pursued overseas, have begun golfing regularly. I have learned how to make drone videos and have added that as a value proposition for my clients.
In terms of moving on from my ex, having the ability to view the relationship and marriage as a whole from a less filtered or tainted lens and far away, I have begun realizing my own worth and value, something I struggled with while still knee deep in the quicksand. I realized that my traits and values are a part of who I am and I will never relinquish those, not for myself and not for anyone else. I tolerated way too much abusive and disrespect in the name of fighting for my marriage, something i believed was my duty and was a noble thing for me to do, for my own sake and for the sake of my vows and the sanctity of my marriage.
I am at a place now where id like to add someone to my life, but i will not compromise my values and change who i am for someone, I find that putting in the effort to really work on yourself opens a lot of doors to the right people, i have no shortage of friends, potential romantic partners in my circle, but doing the work in myself has allowed me to be selective and only allow the right people into my orbit.
For anyone here who has made the decision to move on, just know that it does get better and you do return to your normal self. At thr end of the storm there is always a sunny day. Sometimes you just have to accept what life has given you, if life gives you lemons make lemonade. Try not to carry resentment forward with, it will show in the way people see you and the way you feel, and it will offer very little value to your life.
Thank you - thank you - thank you! Everyone's advice has been spot on. If I am being honest, when I first started on here, I was skeptical. One of the things my W wants is more attention and DBing is counterintuitive. But the more I buy into it, the more I can see some changes. I don't question advice anymore, I just follow it.
Yesterday was another NEW normal day. She had a few bouts of anger and I was calm, didn't react to it like I normally would and continued on with my DBing. We all went out shopping and to dinner where for a few hours she totally normal. She brought up the R and said at one point said that she wants to this work out and keep her family together. I listened to her but then changed the subject. My kids were able to hear some of the conversation so it was best to move on anyway.
