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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
50 minutes ago
Scotty B,

Iím glad you had a great night with your cousin. Again, I think you will find that everything is not as bad as you imagined it.

Steve is right that if you truly love someone you want them to be happy not matter what. True romantic love only works when itís reciprocated. Sheís not there right now. Doesnít mean she wonít be there again someday. Nobody knows what the future holds Scotty B you just have to keep moving forward.
96 2,253 Read More
Midlife Crisis
57 minutes ago
Letís do the math. The property is an asset worth the sales price (minus realtors fees) minus what is owed on the mortgage (and on the second loan if it is secured by the property.)

So - letís throw out some sample numbers and see how the math might work. Adjust by putting in your real numbers.

Property worth 600k
Mortgage of 400k
Equity of 200k (minus maybe $40k in realtor fees/repairs etc if sold)
Rental income from small unit of $1,000 a month
Rental income potential of house $2500 a month

To buy him out (pay him $100k or, if heíll accept your argument that realtors fees would eat 6% of that if the house was sold, get him to agree to $94k)
Get help from a parent to refi - if they could co-sign - and have a mortgage of $500k with a PITI payment on a 30 year fixed mortgage of around $2600 (or more depending on your property taxes ) .

At that payment, you could live in the small rental and pay the mortgage expenses from renting the house, with only repairs and maintenance for your housing costs. OR you could stay in the house and after rental income your cost to live in the house would be $1600 a month plus repairs/maintenance. If you could get a roommate for one bedroom in the house, you could cut your expenses even more.

Now I realize that unless you are in a very low cost area of Hawaii, all these numbers are likely much higher, probably double.

I echo what Gerda has to say about considering living in the small rental if you really want to keep the house. People live in tiny houses, itís different but doable - and if it

Another alternative, if you really cannot afford to stay, is to sell, and take your share of the equity to move to a much lower cost area. If you stay in the US, donít forget about health insurance costs in your calculations. My medical assistant just moved to Florida to be near her elderly parents, and bought a nice 2 bedroom 1400 s.f. Condo for about $210k. (Florida isnít my cup of tea but if you want warm weather and a lower cost of living...)

Plug your numbers into all of this. It may or may not make sense to keep it.
59 2,011 Read More
For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Hi Tony,

I am sorry youíre here. I have been living with my MLC H for 18 months. Heís had at least two OW that I am aware of. I have just learned to live with him here. In these past 18 months, he has had a regression to being a teen; messy bed (he sleeps in our D25s room and sheís is actually sleeping on the couch.), spray tan, diets then overeating, washes clothes once a month or one load for one pair of pants. He leaves in the evening to eat away from the house. The OWs were in another country, so he really is stuck here.

I have struggled to understand. I have been seeing a therapist once a week. That has helped immensely as she is very aware of MLC and how to deal with him. I have learned to protect myself, (he still has me pay all of the bills and watch the money), I have also learned to not ask him anything R related, and I just give him a wide berth.

You can read my sitch, he will bring home baked goods, and surprisingly he ate with D and I on Thursday. He does not know that I know about the OWs. I just know it will come out later but now is not the time, I see periodic glimpses of him, but nothing to what he used to be like. If you plan to stand, you will have to develop a strong outer armor. It helps.

Wishing you the best.

12 170 Read More
Surviving the Big D
4 hours ago
Originally Posted by Ginger1
She was going before she met you, why are you paying for 3 of her sessions? And why is she allowing that?
You'd have to ask her crazy Like quite a few things, her history in counseling was perhaps presented as more than the actuality.

I offered it as the logical extension of the couples counseling. I put a cap on it and it was her choice to take me up on it. Personally I think that both of us will benefit from professional help and without me offering to pay she wouldn't have access to this.

It's a relatively small price to pay to help someone who I cared about move on. Certainly less than paying for her usual consumption of take-out food laugh
99 2,439 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:10 PM
Time for a New Thread
New thread
101 2,289 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:09 PM
Previous thread

Short recap:
Me: 34
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019 (I start wondering about OM)
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
I filed for D: 29th March 2020

-I am living in the house 100%. She is living 50% with OM and other 50 is IHS.
-She will move to an apartment end of January
-I have filed final papers without her knowing

First of, thanks again everyone for your endless knowledge and support!

I messed up with the recent child thing.
Ginger and LH you are of course right. I should have called or texted.
Of course it was unfortunate that the very day before hospital was the first day I decide to neglect W and work consumed my focus. So things were made two-fold for her.

As long as she doesn't ask about them EVERY time or several days in a row I will answer her.
Though if it continues I will rather suggest a FaceTime day per week as some her have instated.
My principle is that if he kids ask they can ALWAYS call her. But I will never suggest it.

Time for me to continue growing.
This whole thing made me very tense as I know I upset her, so there is still WAYS to go.
Especially with NGS.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:15 PM
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. I cooked a full Thanksgiving dinner (even baked a dessert!) for myself and my kids. Organized a Zoom call with my siblings so everyone could catch up. Had a terrific holiday.

Mediation scheduled for this upcoming week, and we should be signing all the final paperwork to be sent to the court for final approval. W is getting prickly here at the end (not unexpected) and making all sorts of wild statements about blowing the deal up. I don't respond, nor do I expect things to fall apart. We shall see.

For me, I do not view D as an impediment to any possible R. I also do not view R as my end goal. I'm just moving forward, working on myself and doing all I can for my kids.

Peace and love.

69 2,659 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 07:14 PM
Iíve been on covid isolation too and devoid of all adult contact and actually spent thanksgiving all by myself. So I feel your pain, trust me. My exH actually invited me to thanksgiving with him and his wife ( which is his AP) ( it was my year to have our daughter, but I sent her there so she didnít have to stare at the wall with me) . I politely declines, because without boundaries I wouldnít have such a good coparenting relationship.

Which brings me to that aspect. I probably have one of the best coparenting relationships youíll see here on these boards. And my ex probably did me the dirtiest. When I was pregnant with our first and only child , he was seeing her behind my back and left me for her when our daughter was 6 months old. On my case, the AP never went away. They married and are still married. I had 13 years of coparenting with my ex and his AP. Imagine that. Iíll cut to the chase though. The level of coparenting j have achieved came only after full detachment and not wanting him back at all. We are all friendly, his wife likes me, he likes me, and would just hang out with me if I were to allow, he all of a sudden after 13 years is very helpful and kind to me, helping with projects around my house, bringing me food, etc. I am the same way with him. But seriously, this degree and on this level cannot happen unless you have accepted the marriage is over and you yourself do not want this person back at all. And like I said, I have boundaries to keep it this way and one of those boundaries is never to celebrate a holiday together.

The comment your child made to you. Itís very observant. And I imagine what he said was his way of saying ď Iím also very confused by this behaviorĒ and I am sure it truly is very confusing. Which is also why I limited playing family in the beginning. We did things like take her for Santa pictures together a d celebrate her birthday together and sit together at school stuff, and maybe 2 dinners together a year. But we knew it would be awfully confusing for her. Itís not anymore . Sheís simply very happy to have 2 divorced parents who get along. I want you to think about what your child said. If it could be that confusing to you, how about them?

And on the messy house thing. I canít help but laugh. I heard the same thing! And guess what. My house is decent and his is like a hoarders zone! His wife has a hoarding problem. I still have personal delight when I walk into his messy house and he walks into my mostly clean house . And I became obsessive after a while because the clutter bothered me. But I realize I live in an active home where people
Are living. Time spent with my kid was more important than having a perfectly neat house. My parents were also OCD clean. My dad is still alive ( mom is not) and I get crazy before he comes over because he will comment on my level of cleanliness and itís not always nice.

Your kids are loved and cared for. Thatís number 1 and trumps all.
34 897 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 06:28 PM
Oh my! Repairing the cracks with gold!

Now there is a metaphor for how the LBS heals.
5 87 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 06:15 PM
Good Morning

The weather has incredible warmed over the last week. Yesterday was +5C. Today is to be around the same. This brought some pretty strong winds which cause quite a bite when walking the dogs. -10C and no wind is still a better day.

There is still snow in the ditches and bushes, the places the sunís rays do not heat enough. Otherwise the landscape is brown and bare, what snow was here is melted or blown into the bush.

At the start of the week, we had such a beautiful and of course dangerous ice fog. Oh, there was such a layer of frost and ice on everything. The thin branches were thick and shown white in the sun. The deck was a beautiful sheet of ice... no wait... the deck was a sheet of ice that almost sent me down the staircase in the dark on my way to the car. Lol

However, not one to miss an opportunity. I did enjoy the icy deck. Iíd run a bit, then slide across the icy surface. OMG, that was so much fun! With the thin layer of water from the slight melting of the ice, you can slide so far it seems unreal.

The power line were also covered in ice. Things did look troublesome for a bit. But, Mother Nature came through and the warm temperatures cleared the ice. There was still plenty of broken and damaged poles and conductors, but no need to widespread ice rolling and melting activities...yet.

DV - Hello my friend. Seeing your name and post was a very nice way to greet the day.

Andrew - I have offered ornaments to my kids as well. S23 actually looked a bit hurt and sad at that thought. He said he like them hanging from my tree. I said I like that too, and they can stay at my house for as long as he wants, for Iím not wanting to get rid of them.

I actually have ornaments from my childhood still on my Momís Christmas tree. smile A small angel made from a gold pipe cleaner, is still a special one which I still love seeing hanging in her house.

I love the hope chest. The history and story behind the wood. The poem within. Every time the crafted lid is opened such a hope can pour out.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Your take on detachment is interesting. When my ex-wife and I split, I allowed the anger and pain to cause me to purge her existence from my environment. Christmas ornaments among other things. If I were instead a widower, I would have lots of memories of her around and hold those dear, memories of the good times that we did indeed have. Am I more detached because I have cast that aside, or are you because those things are in part still there but affect you only in positive ways.

I did not purge material things, nor had to as everything was left to me in the divorce. My emotions followed a similar path. I did not purge them either.

I do understand your view of - if I had been a widower I would have held memories more dear. I felt that way too, all those years ago. And, rightly or wrongly, did see myself somewhat widowed. W changed so much, so drastically, she is a different person. She somewhat died. XW is now in ďherĒ place.

So the dishes, the ornaments, the memories:

Originally Posted by DnJ
No point in just having stuff stored away and never used.

I chose to use the good plates. The fine sugar bowl. Display the precious ornaments. And live and love the good and precious memories.

To be clear, not at first. Oh no! Detachment is needed. I knew, even in the depth of my despair, Iíd feel different eventually. So, I held on to things and my memories and my history. And now I can use all of those and cherish all of those - most importantly, the memories. Acceptance is such a blessing.

I hold my time with W most dear; hold my time with my family most dear. We had many many wonderful years. Made wonderful children. Made wonderful memories.

Then she left.

Now, I hold my time most dear. I have wonderful years and hope to have many many more. I spend time with my wonderful children. I make wonderful memories.

For me, if she had died - why should that have made how I reacted different? I love/loved her. Without question. Without doubt. W was an incredible woman, and a fantastic mom. And I greatly miss her. XW is in her place.

Something I naively thought before - Donít let this horrible MLC change who you are.

Nope, I was wrong.

Let the horribleness of MLC, the cruelty of your once loving spouse, the pain, the sorrow, all of it, let it change you - for it will, no matter what. However, one gets to choose how they change. When they let themselves.

Gerda - Thank for the kind words.

Originally Posted by Gerda
This is most definitely the goal and you are a light to all of us to show the way to it. But I do think this is a grace. I am not sure we can do this by our own wills. I think it's a grace that you received. And did great things with the receiving.

I sincerely gave myself to God, that dark night years ago.

It is our free will that allows His Grace to enter. It is our free will that will put it to great things.

Originally Posted by Gerda
Lord knows I have battled my own will to get to it. Sometimes when I put my life in God's hand I feel that peace. I am not sure anyone can do it on his/her own.

Yes, He knows the demons you battle. He knows the battle of free will. There is such a peace within Godís caring hand.

I am fortunate to be able to see so many positive influence I have received. God helps us, always. Itís up to us to accept it.

Gerda, Iíve told you this before, and will share it again; one of those many positive influences I recognize. You influenced me with ďLive in the LightĒ. I believe that did not come from just you. Let that sink in. Realize the magnitude of my statement. The magnitude of such a thing.

Godís influence is everywhere and within us.

Of course I do see possibilities - the other side. Openminded to almost a fault. Although my brains seem to not fall out, being firmly attached to logic, reason, belief, and conviction. smile

I submit for the atheist a definition that God can be viewed as the collective goodwill and goodness society does and strives to achieve. The compassion for our fellow man. The helping hand a person lends. The care and understand we show. The empathy we extend. The forgiveness we find. All that creates a god-like energy. A collective presents of something. With that definition in mind, God is real without doubt. Real, being there is an affect that is exerted beyond what can be attributed to ourselves.

God, is another hot button topic. I do tend to steer clear of hot button topics. Of course this is my thread. smile

As a really dear gal told me, and I am paraphrasing a little, DnJ you would be the one to find the middle ground.

cardinal - It was interesting to not follow the rabbit hole. I was a bit surprised at how I couldnít. I believe it is because the rabbit hole is no longer present. What a truer testament to detachment and acceptance of oneís emotions than finding there is hardly any pull left towards that abyss.

The note from H in the onions was interesting.

Originally Posted by cardinal
Is he still in there somewhere? Or is this his way of trying to manipulate me? (I found I didnít believe that.)

Iím sure he is somewhere lost in there, within himself.

I am very glad to see you didnít believe it to be an attempt to manipulate you. A very good sign of healing and healthy from you.

Originally Posted by cardinal
So I recognize how much further I am on my own journey, and I wonder about the day when I will not be pulled in that direction at all. Is it feeling secure in knowingness that the memories are there, they exist, no need to replay them? I can imagine a day when I wonít need the memories to remind or convince me of how different things used to be; Iíll just know it as a fact.

Yes, you are plenty far along your journey. And itís a good journey, if I may say so.

And yes, there is a security and peace that comes with acceptance. Things were different. Memories do not play all the time, nor are they needed to.

I am so very pleased to see you able to imagine that day. Imagination is the first step in creation. And another excellent step along your good journey.

Sage - It bring me joy as well to use the good stuff. smile

Originally Posted by Sage4
Can you tell me more about the difference between non-attachment and detachment? I have trended towards using the former in conversations because detachment elicits a sense of aloofness or indifference in people's minds. But I would love to hear your thoughts and definitions.

Iíd be happy to share.

Detachment is the uncoupling of our emotions being triggered by the actions, words, behaviours of our spouse. The emotions still exist, you are not dragged around by someone elseís behaviour and such. You can exert a control, a detachment, of your emotional self.

That gets blended into indifference. Indifference is not feeling those emotions. Detachment is not succumbing to the triggers.

Detachment does have a certain feel or connotations in its use; more so than non-attachment. And that is the point. Consider the following:

- The trailer is non-attached to the car.

- The trailer is detached from the car.

Non-attached is the opposite of attached. The trailer is attached or non-attached. It is static. It is the current state.

A non-attached trailer is sitting there, and can be re-attached. All the hook up equipment is still intact.

Detached is different. It denotes either a state of being, or an action.

- The trailer detached from the car.

OMG! See how the trailer ripped away from the car. The hook up equipment is destroyed. One cannot just re-attach the trailer.

We are the trailer in this scenario. Do you want to be non-attached and can be hooked up anytime the car backs into you. Or do you want that emotional coupling destroyed?

Just like the trailer breaking free from the moving car; ie us getting dragged around; there is damage from bouncing off the road. Donít worry we heal just fine. But there is pain in detaching. Non-attachment not so much.

Once detached, indifference can be found. And the healing that comes from not being dragged around and being able to search within yourself without all the noise from our MLCer. Itís how one finds their beliefs and values, IMHO.

Then, later, after compassion, understanding, empathy, and such we roll back the indifference. Our feelings and emotions return, and yet we are still detached.

A few things happen along the way. The emotional coupling equipment to our spouse is destroyed. We are no longer dragged around. We also become a ďcarĒ. Along those four paths - physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual. We are in control of our own lives. We are the driver.

If/when the opportunity comes for reconciliation, or a relationship with our spouse or ex-spouse, it will be two cars travelling together.

My thoughts on detachment vs non-attachment. Such as they are. smile

Have a great day all.

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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 06:03 PM
Steve are you writing down these horrendous interactions with kids?
You w deserves to have her kids taken away from her. For ever!
Again, read Josephís thread.
32 785 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
Hi May

this is really good food for thought. I struggle to see how I would suggest we take a break from sex without him taking it as a personal criticism - given that he takes pretty much everything as a personal criticism - but perhaps anticipating his feelings isn't really anything I need to or should do right now. I feel reluctant to do that without there being a next step involved - like seeing a therapist or reading something together and again, I can't think of anything that I'd be able to suggest that he wouldn't read as criticism or manipulation. You can see I am a bit weary with his attitude or sensitivity on this.

I get totally what you say - trying a different, more giving approach now we're in piecing and how he is articulating his feelings much better. I am feeling a bit bruised right now. We had a really nice night last night - he came to me and was keen and eager and very loving and while the sex itself didn't do that much for me - he really didn't bother to do anything other than please himself, to be honest - he was very affectionate and nice and I appreciated him being open about his needs and feeling close like that, so it was fine. This afternoon he snapped at me in irritation over something and nothing - I'd left the vacuum cleaner out of the cupboard - and I told him not to speak to me that way - and he started one of his really really nasty rants, including references to sex, with gruesome, childish and pretty explicit hand gestures. It was his real nasty side, out in force again. I was really blind sided - tears came to my eyes immediately - and I asked him to be kind and gentle with me. This never ever works and I wish I hasn't bothered. He just carried on with his nasty tantrum, while I stood there crying and asking him to be nice. In the end I snapped and said, 'oh, so this is the real you - you can be kind and respectful to me when there's something you want from me' (he knows i was referring to the sex) 'but once you've had that, you don't need to keep the act up anymore?' and he laughed at me then I went into another room.

I am trying to note the positive here, and it does exist, and in all kinds of ways things have improved - and you're right, with Eldest and him it is like a totally different relationship the vast majority of the time, and I really appreciate that. But there's still this nastiness in him - a really vile, vindictive and horrible part of his personality. I try to tell myself it's a defense mechanism he uses when he's feeling threatened, but I can't seem to exist in the same place as him without threatening him some days, and I don't want to be vulnerable to his nastiness ever again, and quite a lot of the time he feels utterly justified in it.

WTF you women on here driving me fuching nuts. In what world do live in when the most important person in your life other then you kids verbally assaults until youíre in tears and it is viewed as progress????????
19 728 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 05:14 PM
We put the tree up it was a lot of fun. There were a few orniments that xH had made, and each had our picture on it. Holidays through the years.. She hung them at the back of the tree. When she's oldershe can have them.

Havent heard from XH, other than he's still at work. He hasn't mentioned wanting to see D4 and hasnt msg her. Too busy? Sad. She misses him, and often says "he's at work". I'm ready to tell her changes are hapening, when sh asks. Christmas he's usually home. Not this year. I dont know his plans.
12 496 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 04:02 PM
Hello everyone. Hope everyone in the states had a good thanksgiving.

Itís been a little while, and Iím happy to share that Iím not depressed. For a few days I thought I might be, but Iíve since evened out. I think it was the shock.

Iíve started a new exercise program, a new daytime listening curriculum of self/help and discovery while I work, and Iíve renewed my interest in my side business. I am maintaining my position of not pushing life, even though it has been difficult a few times to hold to and remember that.

Iím focusing on myself and my kids. The last few weeks since I resolved myself to not push, Iíve noticed my wife being more and more open and expressive around me. She seems relaxed, and acting much more like a normal person and more responsible roommate. Iíve even noticed sheís started to do chores around the house - I canít overstate what a change that is, she normally lets rotten food pile up with clothes on the floor while she plays on her phone, and thereís only so much I can do since I work full time and the kids are more than a full time job. It occurs to me now - though Iím trying not to put much thinking into it - that her ďlooking for apartmentsĒ might have been a shot across my bow, and since Iíve backed off (and shut down for a few weeks), she relaxed. Itís possible, maybe even likely.

With the relaxed state comes more confusion. I was a little rattled on thanksgiving that with all the family togetherness - cooking, laughing, playing charades (her idea - she never plays games), that when it came to say thanks she had one for each of the kids but not even a passing thankfulness that Iím here or I exist, and it was just the 4 of us. That hurt for an hour or so until I was able to let go and accept it. I think it was the hot/cold change that jolted me, but I should have prepared for it. No expectations, right?

The incongruity of her attitude (family togetherness, coldness at dinner) got me to do some reading over on the MLC board, and luckily I stumbled across AmyCís post about what she did/felt as the MLC spouse experiencing and doing that. It really touched me.

Iím not putting any stock or thinking into how to affect change in my W anymore - her journey is her journey, at her pace. But I am acquainting myself with any and all reading that will help me understand my situation, in addition to working on myself. And I was shocked to read AmyCís experience and see just how many things matched up to my sitch: irrational disregard for things she used to care about (clean house, good financial choices, othersí feelings, family time), the pushing away of anything or anyone that would make her think, feel, or question herself, etc. MLC feels like a good match for my Wís behavior, and it helps me understand a few things if so - mostly, the notion that MLC comes from someoneís upbringing, and that that particular person would have gone thru MLC, married or not. That was a jolt to read, and helps me really solidify the ďI didnít break her, I canít fix herĒ narrative. Itís NOT about me, and likely never has been.

Also in the MLC reading was seeing how HARD MLCers hide from reality, and that for many it REALLY does have to get worse before it gets better - they have to run to the end of their rope and lies for their rewritten narrative to unravel. I hope thatís not the case, but if it is, this is only the calm before a storm that may need to happen. Maybe my W will ďwake upĒ before that.


The thing Iím pondering now is how to blend my previous practice of self-actualization and getting rid of NGS with my newfound stance of not pushing. This is more of a philosophical conundrum, since one is a ďpushingĒ energy (pushing myself and my needs and my non-NGS essence into the world) and the other is a ďpassive/acceptingĒ energy (letting what is and what others are, be, and allowing life to unfold.) I can feel the energy shift inside me, and I find it confusing to go from ďpushĒ to ďacceptĒ and back again - Iím just not sure yet how to rectify these two seemingly incongruous ideas. But I feel that, if I can get them in balance, Iíll have solved an important step for my own growth.
97 2,236 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 03:18 PM
Good Morning Taz

Iím glad you had a good Thanksgiving Day. And I agree, Momís cooking would have been nice and was missed.

Good for you having W over. You are walking a fine path my friend.

No oneís situation starts out easy. A low energy vanisher without a suspected AP is still difficult. It is us that turns it into something easier. It is our outlook, choices, compassion, empathy, and beliefs, that turn our individual situations for the better. It is excellent you now see your situation as easy.

Imagine, if everyone had to dump their problems, stresses, concerns, and so on, into a big pile where everyone could see everyone elseís. Then we had to choose ďourĒ problems. We all would rush to grab our own problems back.

Itís the 83 problems we all carry. The 84th one - thinking we shouldnít have any problems - when one sees the truth in that 84th problem, accepts it, and solves it, things become easier. We all have 83 problems. Always. And we get to choose which ones we carry around.

Originally Posted by Taz
The boys do not know that she filed and I will hold off telling them until I feel it is necessary. I at least want to wait until they complete the semester final exams in a few weeks.

Originally Posted by Taz
Not sure how S19 feels about his mom as he is guarded with his feelings just like his mom. I just try to show him Iím here for him when he is ready to open up.

You suspect the boys do not know she filed - you donít know. Unless you asked ďDid you know that Mom filed for divorce?Ē. Of course then they would know. So until then, you can at best suspect they are in the dark about this. They may be choosing not to open up.

S21 seems rather open. He did suggest inviting W/Mom over for dinner. S19 is guarding his feelings more than S21. You are leading their way, be their beacon.

Did S19 interact with Mom when she was over? Did S21?

You could break the ice for S19 with small queries or observations of their interactions. Or the events of the day. It may start him talking, or not.

From my experiences, my kids had some mixed up feelings. We did talk. And I shared my feelings probably more than they shared theirís at first. Once they see Dad being ok with being sad, sorry for Mom, compassionate, and forgiving; it is ok for them to be as well. They are looking for guidance. And that is not solving their feelings or problems. It is leading by example. Putting aside your fears and doubts and sharing, empathizing, and demonstrating how to walk in the light. How to forgive.

As I said, you are walking a very fine path Taz. I believe that having the three of you under one roof until mid-January could be a very good thing.

You have six weeks. What do you want to accomplish the that time? What do you want to demonstrate to your boys?

Compassion? Understanding? Forgiveness? Hope?

What good times do you want to have? What memories do you hope they will gain?

Now, donít go changing gears. Be yourself. With a bit of a vision in mind is all.

This at first so horrible path of the LBS is actually quite an incredible opportunity. I believe you realize that.

Itís also quite horrible for the kids. Do you think they yet see, experienced, or believe in their own incredible opportunity?

That, is the beacon for a parent to become.

We show them by living it.

66 3,772 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I've seen a lot out there on how if the spouse never really saw the MR as a M, or truly understood what a MR is you're MR is already wide open to cheating. H never really understood M, or what a MR really means. Through this process has started to understand that love isn't just about individual happiness. It's not about being in a transactional relationship. That it's truly about being willing to sacrifice you're own happiness for the MR, your spouse and your children. He says that I got him there. That it hurts knowing that I loved him so deeply and until now he really didn't even know how to give that kind of love. The self sacrificing kind. It's in moments like that that I realize keeping that lighthouse imagery in my head in my hardest times was the very best thing I could've done for myself and for us. I'm not all about the good Christian wife stuff. That's just not who I am. But being an example of how to love trauma after trauma after trauma makes me feel like I'm not just doing something right in my MR or my family, but that I'm just doing something right. Not letting all the bad in my life chill my heart. Knowing that it's still beating and ready and willing to love no matter how many times it's been broken.

This is such a beautiful paragraph, WF.

I remember that you mentioned H has insecurities. What role do you think insecurities play in H not really understanding what real love is or a MR? Do you think that your H has worked on some of his insecurities to reach this level of understanding? And how are you navigating those insecurities now when they pop up? Do they interfere with your own need for healing (ie, you can't be authentically hurt and say so because H will take it so personally because he feels so bad about himself for doing what he did to you?)

At this moment in my situation, paring back everything to the root and what I see is my H's insecurities leading us to this place. Of course it was a dance and I participated with my own issues, but if H wasn't so damaged by his childhood and didn't carry his insecurities with him everywhere, I don't think we would be in this place. And I am worried that he will never eclipse his insecurities in this life and that I will second-guess everything he does or doesn't do as being driven by those insecurities and not his authentic self (although maybe his authentic self is the insecure one).

Just musing on a Saturday morning. I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving!

40 1,426 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 05:38 AM
Scout, I am afraid of my H. Very afraid. No one understand it because he never hit me.

We never thought they could do any of the things they did. It makes sense that they could do more than what they did so far.

I filed a police report and then another. About the harrassment and gaslighting. I think the police even called him once and let him know that they were on the radar. I just wanted it on record that I had been afraid, especially because mine keeps threatening to move back if I don't come up with more money to pay him his ED, even though ED is not settled. I want to be sure that no judge would let him come back.

My point is -- your fear is real. It might be based on something psychological or it might be a fear of physical violence that could happen. No one knows until it does or doesn't happen. But your fear of his abuse is real, it is there because he has driven you to that fear. And his behavior with S2 is scary to me.

I just want to validate your feelings. I have been there. Even just now, seeing a text from my H, my limbs were shaking like they were full of battery acid, my heart racing. I ask myself why I am so afraid and I don't know. But when I went to the family justice center and told my story, they signed me up for services. They see abuse for what it is and don't question it like we do.
13 334 Read More
For Newcomers
11/27/20 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85
...But certainly we see many of the same types of behaviors from certain LBSs that suffer from PTSD as we do from PTSD caused other places. Risky behaviors. Self-medicating. Struggling to know the right things to engage in. Etc.

This is why IC is so very important, and I commend you for being willing to go get help for all of the PTSD sources you may be suffering from. We see so many LBSs that come here that are obviously traumatized by what their STBX is doing but refuse, for various reasons, to get help in the form of IC. They struggle mightily. Reading your latest update is an inspiration! It shows that it okay to struggle...we all do that. But it is not okay to let your struggles go unchecked. You are doing things the right way and for that I commend you!

Keep up the great work, sir. And again, thank you for your service to our great country!

Hi Steve.

What you wrote here is very important. Getting help in the form of IC is probably the most important thing an LBS can do. It makes so much sense - there is nothing the LBS can do to bring the WAS back anyway. Turning to OP or risky behaviors only postpones the inevitable. In order for one to grow and move past the trauma - IC presents the best chance for one to start the healing process - not for the MR, but for oneself. No time like the present to work on oneself.

PTSD is a tricky demon. In my experience, I have had long periods of time where I thought I had beaten it - that I had processed everything I needed to and that I would finally be able to leave that chapter behind. But the symptoms would always reappear - randomly and at times quite severe.

Once I started digging into it, though, and once the calm periods would turn into tumultuous ones, I became aware that there was so much more to deal with. And that it was something I will most likely be living with for the rest of my life. It is a sobering reality. But accepting that it is something that happened and there isn't anything now that can change that it did happen, is an important first step in moving forward.

I have a lot of work to do still. Recently I've been presented with opportunities to re-engage with some family. It seems to be a lesson I am supposed to be learning right now. So both IC and DB are helping a lot.

Thank you Steve. It was my honor to serve.

Take care smile
89 4,276 Read More
Midlife Crisis
11/27/20 07:13 PM
Update: He left yesterday morning, I had no idea if he was going to be gone for the day or if he planned on coming back for food.

It ended up he had to work. When he came home, I was prepping to put things in the oven. So I just said, we are eating in about and hour, will you be joining us (me and D) he surprised me and said yes.

When food was ready, he actually came and sat with us. He put the tv on something he was interested it (we were casual since just three of us). He commented he liked the food and he actually again seemed like normal H. He even inquired as to what my family was doing since we normally spend the day with them.

When he was done, he announced he was going to bed.

I did have anxiety earlier in the day, thinking how rude he would not even tell me he was not going to be here, but it was for nothing. Last year, he skipped out to be with OW in her country.

Anyway, I hope all that celebrated yesterday had a good day.
82 2,019 Read More
Surviving the Big D
11/27/20 04:30 PM
(BTW my ex has come to his senses and decided not to drive across the entire country to visit his father at the height of a pandemic. Instead heís camping (in a camper truck) in the desert this weekend with his wife - and the elderly cat. )
67 1,609 Read More
Surviving the Big D
11/27/20 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
He still isnít working so I think is going a bit stir crazy. Heís been thinking about a major career change and has been talking about going into healthcare.
BWOOP BWOOP BWOOP - Danger Will Robinson!

As I am well aware there seem to be a lot of mid-life people out there who aren't doing for themselves. I presume that there are good and valid reasons as to why TDH isn't able to work at present?

I read all sorts of stories about women who end up supporting their partner and then end up getting the short end of the stick either when they've supported them through a career transition (and paid all the bills) or they just sit on the couch all day. I'm a bit of a poster boy for this story albeit in the other direction.
16 382 Read More
Surviving the Big D
11/27/20 02:34 PM
(((Ginger))). You will get through this. Tomorrow is always another day. I know what you mean about old pictures resurfacing and bringing up memories. Facebook does it all the time and itís always photos I took when XH and I were together. I try to focus on the good feelings I had when I was there and not on the reality that our family is no longer together. Nice that you still have a connection to Mís brother so you can see pictures of his son now and then and know that he is okay. (((HUGS)))
27 790 Read More
Midlife Crisis
11/27/20 03:31 AM
Iím too full to even eat pie at this moment. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! I thought of you all today. I hope you found some moments of joy and peace, and really felt whatever you needed to feel. What a strange year.

My L filed my response on the day of my deadline, which I realized happened to be exactly a year after H gave me a letter stating his intent to file for Dóhe still sounded somewhat normal in that letter. It was kind of a weak, I canít believe weíre here, but I just need to do this in order to be happy letter. Itís pretty clear to me that if he had found that happiness in splitting, he wouldnít be so angry. I hope he can really face his feelings and work through all the anger at some point. Itís hard to imagine living that way. My IC is pretty convinced H will blow up again soon. I donít know if his L has shared my response yet, or what my L emailed. H hasnít changed his polite demeanor at all. He does seem a bit like a ticking bomb.

May and DnJ, your notes mean a lot. D, I will be reading yours again and again through this process. Itís good to be reminded of this:
Originally Posted by DnJ
However, you need not ask for what youíre entitled too. You are entitled to it. You state it. Not ask for it.

Iíve struggled with a lot of feelings of guilt this week, even as I remind myself that all of this is Hís doing, and I am merely responding in the way I am required to. I let those feelings come and goóthe blame, the guilt, the sadness. At least I can separate feeling guilty or feeling all the things H projects on me from believing those things. I might still feel them, but not believing them is progress.
24 733 Read More
For Newcomers
11/27/20 12:07 AM
Thatís good. Her anger is misplaced anyway.

I had great day! Cooked dinner with my daughter for my aunt and parents. My kids will be back later tonight and we will put up Xmas tree tomorrow.

Continue to lead with strength and everything will work itself out.
28 724 Read More
Midlife Crisis
11/26/20 08:20 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. Stay safe and healthy.
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