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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
3 hours ago
[Changed my username display slightly, in case anyone I know comes across this in google search and can identify me]


Had a great IC session yesterday. Really examining lots of NGS traits and what we can do to overcome them. My IC feels I've made such good progress that I don't need to see her weekly anymore Also good for saving a bit of cash!

We're not really talking about the porn thing anymore - she feels I've moved on from that and am owning that problem and really have made huge leaps in leaving all that behind. We've been focussing on unlearning certain trains of thought. All the GAL activities I've been doing have really sped things along - even in just a few months. It'll take loads more time and effort but I'm up for it!

Went to the gym last night at about 8 - was very quiet so a good time to go. Only been three times but it's done me a world of good. I'm intending to up my visits to 5/6 times a week doing various things. When I was on the machines I wasn't even thinking about what others were thinking about me, or if they were watching me. I just got there, did my thing, then left.

W texted me this morning (Friday) saying my certificate for my exams has arrived. Bit annoyed as I had asked them to post it to my work address a while ago! I'll ask her to post it on to me, as I'm not driving 40 miles to pick up a piece of paper. Naturally my boss needs to see it, so I can hopefully get that pay rise!

48 693 Read More
For Newcomers
5 hours ago

Yeah itís not surprising sheís ďpulling awayĒ. I use it in quotes because she was never there in the first place. She was just using you for moral support. If you guys work this out it will take years. Until she comes to you and says ďballer Iíll do whatever it takes to work this outĒ. Keep detaching and GAL. Remember, you donít even know if the A is over. Until she goes completely through the withdrawals you cannot truly reconcile.
29 504 Read More
For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Det,

There are some relatively blameless people here. Iím not one of them. Iím sorry youíre here. Owning mistakes is a great first step towards doing better in the future. It sounds like youíve decided anger and depression donít suit you, and maybe are ready to make permanent changes.

1. The timeline is unclear. What year did you get together.. and get married? When did the anger and depression begin? Were there good periods before things became rocky in 2009?

2. I didnít see the below in your story. When and how often did she threaten to leave? What did you try to make permanent changes? Why do you feel they didnít stick?

Originally Posted by ďDetĒ
She has said that she sees the changes I am making, but recognizes this as yet another one of my cycles wherein after she expresses frustration with the marriage or the want to separate I turn my act around until...and then revert to similar behavioral patterns

3. When you relate this story, are you or her OM as more likely to verbally abuse your kids? I get you never physically abuse your kids, despite a physically abusive parental figure.

Originally Posted by ďDetĒ
She asked, for the first time, why I was resisting mediation and divorce. I shared several different reasons.. my mom remarried a physically and abusive alcoholic who just wrecked my mom, bother, and I for 15 years.

I didnt quote you above, so you may not have known that I replied.
7 142 Read More
Surviving the Big D
7 hours ago
Thanks. Really, I am not willing to tolerate this. I do need very firm boundaries . Problem is with my dad he sees ďboundariesĒ as a restriction on speaking his mind, and he doesnít like that.

The right to free speech, or speaking one's mind, comes with the responsibility for ensuring one's words are constructive, true and necessary - particularly when the person you're talking to isn't going to like hearing those words. Stated another way, "speaking my mind" is not a free pass to be an a*hole.

You are letting your father cross boundaries that are important to you. I suspect you're doing that because you know that sometimes parents will cross boundaries in an effort to express tough love, which (if that were true) kind of gives him some leeway. However,in this case I think your father is far more concerned with expressing his dominance or satisfying his ego.

Whenever your father tries to belittle your parenting or to accuse you of ingratitude, maybe it's time to step back and wonder what is in it for him - what he wants from you. If his incentive is to boost his own ego somehow, give yourself permission to dismiss all and anything he says. None of it will be useful for you.
93 1,651 Read More
For Newcomers
7 hours ago
Hi Choco,

I'm sorry you're here and going through this. I have a few questions below because I really want us to understand your situation so we can do our best to help you. Take care, and well wishes.

Originally Posted by "Choco44"
Husband had an affair 11 years ago and we reconciled.

Are there any indicators of an affair now?

Originally Posted by "Choco44"
Also, he spoke with my daughters councillor who told him us getting divorced right now would be catastrophic for her.

Do you agree?

Originally Posted by "Choco44"
Also, How do I know heís not moving around finances, can I get my ducks in a row in case this really does go South?

Retain an attorney. Get a free consultation.

Originally Posted by "Choco44"
I kind of feel like this is allowing him to live a double life...getting all the benefits of home life (no sex) but experimenting with freedom and what it would be like to be single.

In what way(s) do you see him experimenting with what it would be like to be a single man?

Originally Posted by "Choco44"
I want to talk about selling the house, and money, etc. to give him a little does of reality, but so far I havenít said anything.

Sounds like drama. I'd skip anything like this.

Originally Posted by "Choco44"
I wrote an apology letter (2 wks ago) and he knows I would do anything to save the marriage (which he said makes things worse, because "why couldnít you do that before."

What did you apologize for? You mention your 180s involved less contact with him, and you want to give him doses of reality.. do any of your 180s address what you were apologizing for?
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Surviving the Big D
8 hours ago
((Bttrfly)) Iím glad to read your mom is doing better. I hope you get some much deserved rest.
51 890 Read More
Midlife Crisis
8 hours ago
Originally Posted by peacetoday
alanon may be helpful for you

When they are alcoholics, it is a difficult road and with no intention to stop drinking
it is a no win situation for the spouse--

Alanon is similar to DB

Focus on yourself
create a new and better life for you-

I've actually put that on my list of - To Dos with the additional note to go to the meeting at the southern part of the state which is located at the VA Hospital there since he's a veteran which has it's own set of problems & the people attending would also be dealing with those issues & may be able to recommend additional resources available to veterans & their family members
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For Newcomers
9 hours ago
Hi CW.

More to come tomorrow but the quote of the night was from the W:

"I've said I'm sorry as many times as I'm going to. I'm not going to sit around and kiss someone's a$$ that obviously doesn't care about my feelings."

This was in response to me saying. "It's not my responsibility to cover up your infidelity."

We're invited to a family tailgate party this weekend and to spend the night at her sister's house. (The sister and BIL know but no one else knows.)

The W doesn't want to stay but I do. I told her I was staying and she could either leave the kids with me or take them home. She was livid. She was asking how could I do that? There'll be all kinds of questions. That's where I said the "it's not my responsibility..." thing.

She texted me that she wants to separate the cell phones. I texted back that if she wanted to start separating things we need to sit down and have a conversation. So we did. She started talking about us being together in the future but she couldn't see how. I asked her what the biggest road block was and she said she didn't think I could change.

Hmmmm...I asked if there was anything else and she said of course. There's many other smaller things.
I was stunned. She's been displaying classic affair fog behavior but that really highlighted the depths of the dysfunction.
60 1,069 Read More
For Newcomers
9 hours ago
So happy for today. D13 and I had are first evening together filled with laughter.
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Surviving the Big D
9 hours ago
44 922 Read More
Surviving the Big D
9 hours ago
Originally Posted by pinn
Note to pin.... you have 2 years left haha!

Iím one year away!

But itís been hell since 30, so I guess Iím used to it
52 2,172 Read More
For Newcomers
9 hours ago
Hi all,

Saw XW again yesterday. I see her about 4-5 times a fortnight. Reason is that she gets my son from school during my week because she doesn't work weekdays. I pick S up after I finish work.

Babysteps continue.

I wait on the porch, dressed in even finer finery today, and she comes out and initiates conversation 'oh, I thought you were X (her girlfriend) - I'm going out for dinner with her. I went for dinner with Y yesterday, and I'm going for dinner tomorrow night with Z'. Me - no, it's me, great, have fun.

She sits, then a little awkwardly and girlishly asks - 'Sooo, how you been? - Good. Really good actually (with a huge smile on my face). The old me would have rattled off a few things I'd been doing.

XW - it's getting hot soon and we'll be sweating in here. We might have to come to your place for your airconditioning! Me - oh no! Said that humourously with a bit of a laugh added in. She then said she'd buy her own AC. The old me would have said come over anytime.

XW - I'm so over cleaning the house and the mess SD and SS make, whilst finger jabbing the air in the direction of where they were inside the house. Me - You sound tired and frustrated. The old me would have engaged further with how often I clean my house and what I do, but I pulled that up before it left my mouth.

XW - I've told you how I quit FT position at work haven't I (yes, you have). Well, I'm speaking with XYZ about blah blah blah blah. Me - good luck with that!

It was time for me to bail, so I got S primed, bounded down the stairs with him, and gave XW a big airwave with my back turned as she said bye again, then we flicked the gate open and hit the road for my place. Application of DB principle to end before she ends applied, plus practising the maxim of "you'll never be more attractive than when she sees your back as your walking away" (or something like that).

Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Wow DS9!! I just got caught up on your entire sich. More to follow.

Thanks buddy, I look forward to hearing more from you. I find your posts very insightful and reflective, and they give me much food for thought.

Originally Posted by Tryhard
And that is how it is done folks . Well done DS9 , keep it up , you can do it

Thanks Tryhard!
59 1,348 Read More
For Newcomers
10 hours ago
It doesn't sound that bad to me.

DB techniques include setting boundaries but you better be willing to enforce them.

Everyone has a hiccup now and then during the process so if the vets say you could have handled it better, than you do that the next time and learn from it. Don't get caught up in how you are affecting his emotions. He's responsible for those.
41 726 Read More
Midlife Crisis
10 hours ago

MC session was meh. W is still cordial, but ILUBNILWU was her standard response/defense. MC gave her many opportunities to express any hope of R, but she wouldnít go there. We are going to begin discussions on custody and division of debts, etc. I am only somewhat begrudgingly going along with it, as I am not going to beg her to stay . Only a miracle could save it now. I know i will be okay, but not looking forward to the coming upheaval.
25 564 Read More
Midlife Crisis
10 hours ago
Thereís no treading on eggshells and I can be me. I can breathe.


He came to babysit while I went to a school reunion and I stayed out at a hotel. New outfit, new makeup and I felt great. I could tell he hated it and tried to get me into bed the minute I got home. I resisted.

Response: "I'm not sleeping with you until the OW is gone from our lives and you attend couples counseling with me. "

And you're right, the thought of you being around other men who might find you attractive drives him crazy Make him use that energy to DO THE WORK.
86 1,450 Read More
For Newcomers
10 hours ago
Yesterday, out of the blue she started trying to convince me to go back to the OW. Said clearly I loved her, that she wants me happy, and now she understands that you can't help falling in love with someone. Said the OW is a pretty girl, that the OW has done well for herself, and she wouldn't make things difficult and to reconcile and date the OW. Just told me to make sure she is good to our girls.

Why? This is crazy, goes from hating her (understandably) to now wants me to date and make things work.

Is this just guilt and shame?

Of course I told her that I never loved the OW, it wasn't reality, but I understand why see would think I did. And that I have no desire to every date the OW.
28 531 Read More
For Newcomers
10 hours ago
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Originally Posted by LH19
I am in denial about the d. I still canít believe I am getting d. Iím stuck and I am trying real hard to unstick myself. I am the opposite of my w, I think of all the good times and vacations while she thinks of all the bad. Obviously we are in 2 very different places

Mate, I feel your continued pain, and denial, and search for answers. Does it feel like you are under her 'spell' still? It still kind of feels that way for me, but its a lot less strong now. Are you getting IC? If not, this will help, but make sure you get an appropriate therapist. They can help you in distilling what it is in your subconscious that causes you to keep hitting the replay button.

Until you become detached and indifferent, I think you need to try and block from your mind all the good memories. I had to, and I think we have similar minds. Sometimes it gets through, but just keep blocking til you get help to deal with it more subconsciously.

Don't ask her about anything, including bandages, injuries etc. Absolutely resist the temptation. My XW came back from holiday recently with a huge infected pusball on her chin. I said nothing, and didn't even look. She volunteered what happened, and all I said was 'hope it gets better soon' - DILLIGAF.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
[quote=Wolfman]I read about women going through peri-menopause can experience major hormonal changes that can alter the way they act and feel.

I'm convinced it played a huge part in my situation, and I also don't think it's a coincidence that so many WAW's and WW's are in their 40's and 50's. But the real question is how does it impact your approach, and the answer is it doesn't. You DB whether that's a factor or not.

Nail on head guys. For about a year before BD, my XW would regularly say she thinks menopause would come on soon. I was supportive in her concerns back then. A few months after BD, she told me about being in first throes of MP, changes in her cycle etc. You know what I said - 'hope you'll be ok' then I walked off.

I agree with LH19 in that you need to get your own haven. I don't know how you've lasted this long being under the same roof.

Stay strong Wolf, and good luck mate!
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:56 PM
You are not in a competition with the OM. Plus if he lives 1,000 miles away he canít see her that often.

The point is the statement. I love and respect myself too much to share you with another man.

To simplify the boundary:

W I will not live in an open marriage.
59 1,098 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:12 PM
Thank you guys for your thoughts. You are right, it has been an unsatisfying relationship for a long time. And it is very exhausting. I am tempted to just give up. But I love my W deeply and I know she loves me deeply as well, it's just not complete for some reason. I am actually very happy with my life overall, outside of this issue. Don't get me wrong, it is a very painful problem, but my W tries hard to show me love in a lot of the ways that she can. I guess I would say our "familial" love is very strong.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:59 PM
Bumping this up for the newbies.
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Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 09:46 PM

I am so happy to read how you are faring as a solo tourist. Sounds like you are thoroughly enjoying yourself and meeting some new people along the way. I had to chuckle about Tour Guide's comments and how you gently stopped him in his tracks about your former girlfriend. LOL!

Enjoy your day tomorrow. Take plenty of photos in and around the Prado museum. I have truly enjoyed the photos you have posted thus far.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by ozman
Ok thanks guys!

But she asked me to share info with her from now on and I agreed. Soooo?

Oz, it's amazing how many pins you're juggling. Congratulations on making progress with your wife!

Just an idea--could you thread the needle? I.e., instead of saying nothing (the distancing which got her to pursue) or going into full info dump mode (what got her to back away), could you keep your promise by giving her a 1-2 line unemotional summary on the days things happen, as you might update an acquaintance? That would empower her to ask for more info only on the days she wants and can handle it.

Hopefully others will chime in with a variety of options to choose from. Stay strong!
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 08:04 PM
When WAH first left I sought other men to talk to. I needed to fill the void (that's passed now). So I checked my motives for reaching out to my mom and nope I'm past the part of trying to fill the void with unhealthy things. It's that darn house that put her into my brain.

As much as this hurts and as much as I hate change I'd rather do this right than have to do this again. I'm doomed to repeat the same mistakes if I don't fix this. I told my IC that I thought this was karma for all my bad behavior and she said if that were true then everything I'm doing now will my life thats positive will be transformed into peace.

I still want WAH to save me from this pain knowing full well that even if he came back today I'd still be in pain. I was in pain before he left and I'm in pain now. The difference is now I have a choice to either fix it or run from it because he's not here to heal me. I have to do it.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:20 PM
Do you think it was hormonal the last 3 times she left you? Probably not. I think you're just trying to find a reason to justify what she is doing. We all want that answer, but most of us never get it. Why she is doing it is not as important as how you react to it. Focus on you and let her do her thing...

You're right, Mtb. That's exactly what I'm doing. Thanks for the response.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 05:36 PM
Thanks AS - I always appreciate your insight.
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