May, just wanted to post something funny. I've been using a new streaming service to watch trashy reality TV like the Real Housewives (no shame, please). The software obviously has a few bugs and keeps throwing up error messages. I keep getting the following notification: Entitlement Validation Error. It makes me think of your H every time. LOL.
You are NOT a bad mum. I know you know that, though.
[quote=Gerda] rThe fall from that pedestal has hurt my son tremendously. He needs a strong male role model. My dad has passed on. His uncle is even more messed up than my exh. I have no siblings. His godfather has not stepped up in any way. This kid is seriously lacking a solid male in his life and it's clear to all who know him. If exh would step up, it would go a long way, I think, towards helping. My son is craving the family structure we had. I cannot parent him the way a father would, because I am not that. I can and do parent him as a loving mother. I don't think it's enough right now, given what I see him going through.
My son is in the exact same boat. No family, no structure, no men. In my case, his godfather actually paid for my husband's divorce lawyer. My son missed 75 days of school in 7th grade, about the same in 8th -- I got reported to child services for that. Shoplifted, wouldn't get out of bed, raged, wrecked my house. I felt exactly as you do. I still do at times -- but my son is starting to come out of the darkness and I have a lot more hope now about him and his life. He connected somewhat with my dad, who is 93. They do need a man, desperately. But life didn't give them one. Life did give them a strong mother. That's all I mean. You aren't enough, of course. But your son has a journey that includes that truth and it may give him gifts it's hard to imagine now.
I don't think my posts are feeling welcome to you at the moment so I will sign off for a while. Lots of love and good wishes.
It WOULD be amazing to have a travel buddy, right? I love traveling alone. Truly love it. But sometimes I want to travel with a friend too. I'll be your virtual travel buddy? Your travel support buddy
There should be "dating" sites where you can hook up with travel people! They must exist, right? Find someone you click with, enter your budget range and desired countries and go discover the world. A little dangerous in App form I suppose but cool in concept.
Yes, go back to dating the 25 year olds. As in....don't "date". If it feels boring then I say don't do it but by all means have some fun. I need fun. No fun for me - blame the lack of leadership in this *bleep*hole country and blatant idiocy everywhere. I'm in a safe place, but still. No hookups for the foreseeable future. Even some flirting would be fun for now, but that tends to be better within 6' of one another.
I've been thinking about hooking up. It's new for me. I was always a serial monogamist. And too restrained in my love life with XW. Far too restrained. After 18+ months of soul searching I'm discovering who I am and it's still evolving. I still love her. I'm still a bit *in* love with her and I still see her as "my" person. A very big part of me still wishes she'd approach me and a very big part of me is terrified that she would. I feel...not fully baked. Like I'm still learning who I am, and I could not have any kind of healing with her unless I really know who I am. I'm struggling with the fact that we might not ever have healing between us, and the fact that we were a great couple in many ways, and with true reflection and work we could be a great couple again.
But that is only what I see, and I don't know what she sees. I have to leave her to live her life without assuming I know what's best. I'm still trying to leave her gently.
When I focus on me, I thrive. I had lost that for most of our R. Not because I intentionally deferred to her (though I did) but I think in part because we got together when I was so young. With the age gap she had come into a bit of who she was as a person, and I loved that. I didn't flounder enough to find myself ever - she scooped me up into safety and we lived happily in a bubble. Now I feel myself being pushed and pulled and I feel incredibly strong and confident and I know exactly what I like and don't like. I'm more open and curious and bold. I'm kinder, and I've discovered that the physical world is very important. I had lived in my mind - in academia or some mental problem solving state - and thought that was somehow wholly "me". But now I'm hiking and meditating on what my sexuality really means and how important it is to want - everything is so different.
So hooking up feels like a way for me to exert my new found power. Use my voice for good communication, listening well and being present without making assumptions. It feels new and it feels like it will be part of my process. I can have a lovely time with someone in an honest way and not feel guilt of what it "should" be. I can be honest upfront about not wanting more than casual friendship. For right now, I think I can easily not fall in love by accident because my heart just isn't in it. I still want to save and buy a house on my own without another person's input. That, to me, feels like the ultimate stability after our break-up. When I am able to buy it will be MINE. XW was generous/fair in our splitting of assets (none of which were in my name). I'm grateful for that, and lucky. But I still feel stupid for putting myself in such a vulnerable place financially.
I just reread what I wrote. I said, "I'm still trying to leave her gently". She left me. But wow, that sentence is so telling to me. What a shift in my perspective.
I didn't think I'd write all that, it wasn't planned. That's the kind of stuff that has been percolating for a while now, and why I'd been off the boards as I worked it all out. I'm not sure if I'm back to posting or not, or if I'll end up hiding again. With every step of healing it feels better to not remind yourself of what was, but to fully embrace what is.
Lack of self control is the #1 enemy of DB. If self control were easy, no one would smoke, drink, or be overweight. Its very hard, but that's what it takes to turn things around, commitment to being counter-intuitive and fighting your impulses.
Very well said.
Another thing to commit to is personal growth. If you are like the rest of us you need to learn some very important skills and make huge changes to your behavior and the way you interact with her (and most likely all women in general).
I have read your story hundreds of times. You understand that talking will not win her back. You are ahead of most.
I believe "the fear of losing you" has the best odds of changing her mind. She is making decision based off of emotions. You need to fight this battle with logic. That is why I say what works is counter-intuitive.
Theses are a couple of my mantras:
1) I will not share my woman with another man. 2) I will not be with a woman who does not want to be with me. 3) All if fair in love and war.
I want you to attract your wife back and rebuild your marriage.....you have a lot of work to do and the odds are against you. Letting her go does not mean giving up. Everything is counter intuitive. Time is on your side. This process takes a long time, but do not waste your time.
Set her free. Set yourself free. Be happy without her. Enjoy everyday.
It is a game with high stakes. Learn to play it well.
Thanks for replying. Forgive me for being obtuse, but is the game you’re referring to the distancer/pursuer dance? If so, I’m still not sure if she’s being willfully ignorant when she asks me what’s wrong, is trying to bait me into an argument, or is somehow oblivious to the dynamic between us (which seems unlikely).
Hey Beth - I have no actual advice unfortunately. That sounds super tough and frustrating. I realize I am probably answering this after your talk, and hope it went well. Hang in there, and do what's best for you.
Me and boys went to Mass and dinner with W on the fourth. This was our only contact in the past 3 weeks. Had some friendly chit chat about what we have all been up to. Afterward S21 said she might as well have Dimentia, it seems as though she has forgotten we exist. She did text the boys Yesterday to share a password for a streaming service she just enrolled in. This must be her fourth one now, she watches a lot of TV. I find this to be a bit unhealthy.
Still DBing and GALing. I’m really starting to appreciate the gift of time. S21 and S19 will be heading back to college in a month if things go as planned. This will give me a break but will sting a bit as well.
As for laundry - teach the boys to do their laundry and have a day of the week set aside for them to do it. They're old enough to do their own and it's a life skill they need. (I remember being horrified when I went with my oldest on a college tour and the student leading the tour showed us the laundry facilities and commented on how most college students don't know how to do laundry when they arrive!!!
I may have regaled this little story before but I remember staying at the parents of a 40 year old band member when we were out west on the road. I put some clothes in their wash machine as this guy watched in amazement. “How did you know how to do that?” As if I just took off flying an airplane. 40 years old, a licensed plumber, and has never washed a load of clothes in his life. Keeps finding women who will mother him just like his mommie did for all those years.
Originally Posted by Dawn70
Seriously. S has totally hit the jackpot in you. I suspect that she has not encountered a lot of men in her life who are as forgiving of her lack of routine as you.
I agree! As I’ve said before Andrew should not lose a wink of sleep worrying about S leaving - it’s completely the other way around. She needs to know how lucky she is. I suspect S25 knows this, is a bit disgusted by it, and rather not see it. Just my guess. Most everyone I know would have passed on this “opportunity” long ago. I hope S knows how lucky she is. I know I’ve said this before too but I really hope the cost to you (in all ways, not just financial) is even Marginally close to the return you get.
Court went very well and the judge said the divorce would not be reopened period. He called all the accusations ridiculous and on the 19th of July it will be one year from the date the judge signed the papers. What a relief. Since the judge ruled on the case ExW has been emailing me to renegotiate the financial aspects of the divorce without using lawyers. I politely say "All negotiations or questions regarding the divorce can go from your lawyer through my lawyer." Another step for me in keeping my boundaries and not getting emotional but keeping it business like. When that didn't work she has started to email me about small talk but I never respond. I just have no desire for any type of connection with her in my life unless absolutely necessary.
D14 has continued modified visits that that they discuss and agree on. Since the divorce her mom has taken her a little less than 20 days even though she was legally entitled to 52. I have used that time to grow closer, go on adventures, and create amazing memories with D14. We went to the top of a mountain to look at the comet Neowise. D14 loved hiking at 1am in the morning.
oh Wayfarer, you know I'm a hopeless romantic and optimistic to the point of being probably stupid but... I wish we had the heart eyes emoji here. I am tearing up and just so so happy for you and I know this *is* going to end up being just a blip in the story of your M. I'm so proud of you and you have gone through so much. I hope your H has a fraction of understanding of how f-ing lucky he is to have you as his W.
I appreciate it Indy. I love helping other people.
Originally Posted by Indy470
I do see what you're saying with maybe, maybe not. Feelings do certainly change. I cant really predict how I'm gonna feel down the road. I just know this is what I'm feeling today.
Yep. Just like her feelings about you changed, your feelings about her might change.
Originally Posted by Indy470
You're probably right on detachment. I dont know why but I'm having a feeling of detachment today. I feel kind of outside of my situation. Feel a bit numb to it all. My emotions have been everywhere lately so ya probably too early on for total detachment.
Yep. That's why we call it a roller coaster. The ride is just beginning!
Originally Posted by Indy470
Definitely trying to let those expectations go. They havent stopped me from DBing but they have stopped me from having any peace. Trying to drop those expectations today.
Indy it's going to take a really long time for you to be at peace.
Thanks a lot for your posts. I have re-read my last post and after your reply I can see how pathetic and anti-DB my attitude centered on WAW is. Believe it or not I can have some good days when I see your points and my mistakes crystal clear.
I do have big issues I want to fix for me. I have made exercise a big part of my life now, as it was when I was a teenager, I dont know why I stopped that, it keeps me in a good mood and boosts my confidence. I was also excessively focused on my career and making big money, now I am starting to enjoy calling my friends who live closely to go for a coffee or a beer and I had serious active listening issues I am trying to delete. This is only a little taste of the many things I want to change for me and it is really for me. I was not happy inside my M either, I am trying to analyze my faults were applicable to delete them, not for her, to make me a better person.
Not that I blame W but she has hurt me so badly with words that I give too much importance to every little thing she says, I need to get better there. I will work on getting better at being independent, detaching and GAL for myself.
@Steve, thanks a lot for your opinion and help, you have made me see my previous post in a very different way.
@Sandi, I never meant to ask for financial help, I wanted your objective opinion on whether she is manipulating me, I am sorry I did not made that clear. I genuinely expected a different course in those conversations, it seems all she cares about now is having her expenses covered. Again that is not a excuse to keep undergoing such conversations.
I have started an instagram account, my friends told me is a great way to socialize nowadays, let's see! So far I am posting about cars and fun moments with friends and I think that is all I want reflected there. I saw one of W's best friends yesterday and she pretended not to see me and looked around for all the time I walked pass. This has happened before, I always think I would say hello, I have nothing against you, but W must have told friends I made her very unhappy (more crazy WAW talk!).
I am picking up the kids today! I bought a plastic pool for the house in the Sierra and we can also go to the beach with my parents, not sure what they will prefer but for sure we are going to have a great time! S1 will be 2 next week, S6 wants to throw a party under the theme of Hotel Transylvania so I will go and get decorations, make Frankenstein punch and other things to have a great time!
Sometimes I think it would her so much if W was with OP that I force myself to avoid seeing our M as over, I cant seem to make that pain go away from my chest. I truly think if I could let go of that pain and fear, I would do much better.
Again thanks a lot to all of you, I know I am a bad DB but I will work on improving that, you deserve to see some good work on my side after all the time you have invested on my sitch.
Thank you guys for the kind words...I guess I used the Final Update think in jest.
DnJ...my oldest (S22) and my dog have truly been lifelines to ease the craziness. You are correct in that it may or may not happen. I am continuing to pray for her and my children...because that is what I do and who I am. Nothing will change that.
bttrfly...I agree that God has a plan for us and sometimes closes and opens doors so that we stay on track to accomplish the goals we were created to accomplish. I will continue as I have for a long while and check back monthly. I have tried to stay off daily because I find myself getting sucked in longer and longer each time.
Gerda, during our men's faith group last night, one of the guys posed a similar curiosity about several of the guys. Many of us are divorced and he said he knew why his marriage crumbled because he was a @$$, but he could see no reason why several of our wives had left. I pulled from my experience here to explain to him that maybe, just maybe the wives left because of internal turmoil within themselves. It is difficult for some people to accept, but that is it in a nutshell. We could have been as perfect as possible and they still would have left because of something within themselves.
This guy that my ex has latched onto is a very successful guy financially. Maybe this is what she thinks will fill the void that she feels. I truly don't know, but fortunately I have been able to detach enough that the pain isn't pulling me apart. He is her 4th serious BF during the last 4 years. It kind of reminds me of the Samaritan woman at the well...she was continuously searching to fill the void with things and many husbands...only to be left empty.
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:13-14
Yeah DV you're so right. My ex wasn't my "type" at all and I probably wouldn't have picked him if online dating was a thing. I wasn't interested when I first met him because he looked like every dumb surfer stereotype, blond and blue eyes (not my thing, I'm sure others would love his blue eyes but they were never a selling point for me). Yet he became very attractive to me as our relationship grew. (Ok, he turned out to be a mistake in the long run, but I'm just referring to physical attraction here).
Thank you, everyone, for the valuable perspectives and feedback. To her surprise, I'm proceeding with the 7-day trip, and will aim to preserve the epic bits while inserting rest periods and days. To my surprise, she said she'll call her therapist and book an appointment for us to solicit her thoughts on making the trip a success.
@Ginger - I suspected you knew something of MS. Your focus is on point, that the issue was not the words used on Sunday, it was that she was worn down and "spoonless". She did not want to disappoint me. Even stronger motivators were not wanting to admit she needed to slow down and didn't want to miss out.
@May - #1, You're right--I've been seeing the woman I met and not the one in front of me. I'm open to the idea she can't keep up, but I'm curious what we can accomplish if we accommodate each other a little more. #3 - Is for me, dialing back from 4 hikes to 3 hikes would've made her day easier, and been enough for me, and I should've strongly considered dialing back after her first meltdown. #2 Is for her, she says she owns she needs to admit when her disease is making her spacey and say "No" when my plans are too much for her.
@AS - You nailed it when you described your ex-wife and her difficulty accepting new physical limits! Unfair ones, considering she runs for hours 3x/week, and especially hard on an over-achiever. Note, MS can affect memory and cognitive ability, and she is jealous of my energy and ability to learn. I don't run as often as her!! Great tips on diplomatically inserting breaks into our trips.
@Wooba - I'm going to act based on what's in front of me. Nobody knows the future. 13-25% with MS end up needing a walker or wheelchair, but 59-67% never have any trouble walking. I think our problem this weekend was more about understanding and communicating limits than that limits exist.
^^^THAT is a great response and plan! Good! I think if you can dial back your expectations and keep that communication going then it'll make a huge difference.
Originally Posted by KitCat
People with MS can live wonderful full lives. Many can go months to years between severe flare ups. Sadly some become bed ridden or live a physically limited lifestyle. ITS SO UNFAIR!!!
The treatments have really improved. My XW's dad (I'm not saying my father-in-law because he passed away long before we met) was diagnosed in the 1970's and he only lived another 6 or 7 years after the diagnosis, which was pretty common back then. He was bedridden the last few years and developed mental issues as a result of it. His wife cared for him until his passing, and that was a tremendous burden on her and their two daughters (including my XW). The stories my XW told me were absolutely heart-breaking, just awful. Randy (XW's BF's H) was diagnosed around 2000 and with treatment continued a relatively normal life for about 10 years. Then he started having mobility issues that continued to increase until as I mentioned before he could no longer drive or work. Things were compounded when his W was diagnosed with a heart condition and no longer able to help him shower and dress and such because the strain was too much on her heart. So he had to go into an assisted care facility, that was about 5 years ago. He's pretty much completely disabled at this point. It's been a very sad thing to watch play out. I think the treatments are even better now so the prognosis continues to improve. But not long ago it was a death sentence.
Its exhausting in the morning coming out of that hazy land of sleep and then realizing he is the first thing I'm thinking about. Literally everyday.
I promise you, that will change with time. It is what it is, don't be upset with yourself over things you can't control.
I was very business like in the two times I needed docs. Not rude but anything I wrote out I made sure to go back and eliminate 30% of it keeping it as short and to the point as possible.
But, I noticed I would feel so grimy and dirty after these contacts. I mean like literally GROSS. So I talked with someone why this is - it as brought to my attention that it wasn't that the contact was wrong and what was making me feel so awful was the fact I'm doing something against my core beliefs. Divorce is against my core beliefs. It was suggested that I stop and tell him to just get an atty to move forward because I can't willingly participate.
Well but you're not pushing for D, you're just trying to get the financial settlement resolved. He's harboring a lot of resentment over his belief that you're holding "his" money hostage. So get it all worked out. Sure it may give you some heartburn but it doesn't mean that it's not the right thing to do.
Right now its just "words" but the settlement could be in my favor $25-50k. I shouldn't walk away from that. Its stupid to let attys eat that up and to p*ss it away
Thank you all for your comments! I went through our old phone bills tonight, and she was on the phone with the other guy multiple times a day in the months leading up to her leaving me. I called her this evening and confronted her with this information. She continues to deny any romantic involvement between the two of them, and I have a very difficult time believing her for obvious reasons. At the very least she developed a deep emotional connection with another man who was an old friend while she was planning to leave our marriage, and then moved in to live with this man, without communicating any of this to me while it was happening. She still says she has feelings for me and hopes that we can reconcile our marriage. I believe she intended to divorce me and elope with this man, but my response to her leaving gave her second thoughts and now she is trying to decide between the two of us, and that is why we have been in limbo for four months. I could be wrong, but that is my assumption. Either way, this guy has intentions for her, I am now confident of that. Whatever the level of involvement between those two, I am not comfortable being in the situation that I am in. Having my wife live with another man where the two of them are so emotionally attached while I'm halfway across the country is not a healthy position to be in.
I asked for proof that he has a girlfriend and nothing is going on between them, that I need something from her to give me a reason to stay in this. We are going to talk tomorrow since the phone call ran long and things were getting heated. Without knowing every detail and being unable to trust her, I think I need to make a mandate. Either come home and we can work on this or I'm done and filing.
Whoa, hold on.
You are doing all the wrong things.....and then you are leaping to put a mandate in place based on your emotions from doing the wrong things.
Have your read DR? Have you read all of Cadet's welcome message links?
You are breaking key principles of DBing.....and then reacting to things based on breaking those key principles.
No where in DBIng do you comb through phone records. No where do you call her to confront. No where do you demand proof that her live-in male friend has a girlfriend and there is nothing between them. And rationally speaking, how does someone even prove that?!?
Bgr, step back.
You should be NC right now. You should be not taking her calls. You should even consider blocking or not responding to her texts. You are breaking every rule of DBing, and since you came here I assume you are wanting to DB.
SO no mandates. Likely you would lose that anyway. So rather than "Either you move back and we work on the marriage or I go file and am done." (NOTE THOSE ARE WORDS.) You just decide you are done and go file. (NOTE, THAT IS ACTION.)
IF you are not ready to go file, then you DB. You GAL (stay busy). You continue to work on your own self-improvements (180s) and become a man only a fool would leave. And you work on detachment. Please do yourself a favor and study detachment. Self-differentiation is another name for it. Learn what it is and work on it. Because I can tell you that studying phone records, calling her to confront and then demanding proof that doesn't exist, and couldn't even exist if what you wanted to prove was true, IS NOT DETACHMENT.
So before we go any further: Do you want to DB? Or do you want to pull the plug? Giving her a mandate is fruitless, she is already gone and living with another guy. What else do you need to know? Do you really think the mandate is going to get her go to go? "Oh, you're right, be home tonight."?? OR that she'll even say "Give up and move on from me."?? You aren't likely to get an answer from her either way, even though through her actions she has already made her choice.
Thanks for the feedback Steve. As always, you're spot on.
Couple of follow up questions. I've been doing all the cooking for the past couple of years, but since the bff moved out last week, she's cooked dinner twice. Now last night she stated that having to cook was another obligation that made her feel overwhelmed with too much to do. I didn't respond to that even though I wanted to. But, then she says that she's been feeling worthless, like she doesn't do enough. And last week I sat out on the back porch reading one night, and she got upset because she thought I was mad at her since I stayed distant.
Not sure how to respond to these mixed signals. I guess believe none of what she says, right? Just try to do my own thing and not worry about how she feels about it?
Lol just validate her. She's complaining about cooking being hard. She's mad that you're too close and she's mad that you're too distant. You can comfort her and say "I wasn't be distant b/c I was mad, I was just reading XYZ - it's really good".
I'm going to join the choir and say detach, think more talk less, and learn to validate. You really gotta take the pressure off here.
He saved up, got his own place and has been doing quite well. A life he never would have had if he'd hung on to the old job.
It always amazes me that people will hang onto a crap situation forever just because it's the "easy" thing to do. A lousy job, a house they can't afford, a kid in their house on drugs (all of the above for my brother), or as we often see here, a relationship with someone who no longer loves them or even cares about them. Glad your son was able to break out of that rut and make a better life. Often when people finally do end that lousy relationship or move out of that expensive home or quit that messed up job, they look back and are astonished they didn't do it sooner. Things can get better very quickly when we finally let go.
I inadvertently got on the roller coaster ride again lately, so I've been working through my feelings and trying to keep my focus.
I haven't responded to H's last email. He said that I don't need to worry about child support because I have taken enough funds from his account (which is true...I did it anticipating that he would cut me off out of nowhere - which thebn really happened). and then told me to let him know how much I need.
Few days later after sending me that email, he came over and brought me some food as usual. He showed it to me and it was my favorite pasta salad. I burst out in tears.
And then I spent way more time than I should thinking about why the heck he would do that. Did he feel guilty for writing me a mean email? Did he feel guilty for cutting me off? Does this mean he's softened?
meanwhile when I read may's thread and what scout's said about the mindf*ck channels, I wonder if that also applies to my H. rage, charm, and self-pity. I feel like I can see H's behavior following that pattern. Who is my H? Do I really know the real him? Or did I really have my blinders on the whole time? Was I a victim of emotional abuse? I had these questions running around in my mind but I couldn't arrive at a clear answer.
All I remembered was the vets said, "when you are still confused about your WAS, that means they are not back yet." So I stopped thinking about his "making my favorite pasta salad" gesture and decided to go back to my instinct - nothing's changed.
I feel embarrassed (to myself) that I still went through that cycle. I took his gesture to the heart and interpret it to be something entirely out of its own realm.
What is real? What is true? What's real is the love my children and I have for each other. What's true is our actions will match our words (most of the time). We got each other's backs in highs and in lows. We do not desert each other when things get difficult......