sometimes Mach that heavy sigh is because I can't reach through the phone with my magic wand, wave it over you and make it all better.
other times the heavy sigh is because I can feel how much it hurts, and I hate that the only way for you to heal is to literally walk through the valley of the shadow of death, and all I can do is just sit on the other end of the line and hold space for you and frankly - some days that doesn't seem like nearly enough.
never is the sigh because i'm sick of being there for my friend.
W and I both worked from home today. Son had 1/2 day of school. He just went to the neighbors. W told me she told him when he gets back, if we want, we can go out to dinner. Or if we don't, she can go pick something up. I just said 'ok'.
Nothing new to report. Again, we both went to a mutual friends party on Monday (drove separately). We didn't speak much, but did chat about our son (who was also there). She also mentioned that her student loan ($170,000) is going to be forgiven in 2 years (she works for a non profit, community based company). In a moment of weakness (or 'buzzness' after a few), I said something along the lines of 'that's great. I also heard that we'd get over $80 grand profit for our house. As tough as it's been for us financially, if we would have stayed together in 2 years we'd be like the Rockefellers'. She just said something like 'yeah true, but there's more problems than just money'.
We haven't talked much the last 2 days. I've said nothing unless it involves our son. I still haven't been served papers yet.
Good job. Remember, only respond to direct questions with the shortest answer possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers. Texts with no question require no response.
Yesterday afternoon W sent me a picture of a funny meme. No text or anything else.
Temperature check? Hoping I will respond with a smile and relieve her guilt? I did not respond at all as I felt like there was no way to do so without denying our current reality as she seems to be doing.
I think at best you’re plan B as she searches for OM2. I know it sounds harsh but that’s the reality of it. What’s the plan moving forward as far as IC/MC is concerned? The affair can not be swept under the rug. For you to have a successful relationship you have to see each other as people of value. Not a consolation prize until your son is of age.
Keep GAL like a mad man and really start to think if this is what you want moving forward.
I don't think she is looking for an OM2 right now. She will probably continue with me until she has found enough excuses to defect once again. And at that point, she might look for an OM2. I am planning to bring up IC/MC issue next week.
I am GAL'ing to my satisfaction. But I have not started thinking about what I should be doing about the MR in the future. Been putting it off because it is a tough subject.
We've seen this reluctancy in truly recommitting back to the marriage after an affair before from WASs. Almost always they are biding their time until the OP has a change of heart, or OM2 comes along. WW in particular have a way of attracting no end of losers. It's a sad reality whether she's actively on the prowl or not.
The good news is that none of it matters. You just keep DBing. Focus completely off of her. Look up "self differentiation in marriage". That's your new normal.
When it comes to WWs they have no shortage of reasons to end a marriage. As for actively seeking OM2 you would be surprised on how calculating a WW can be when they want out. For this to workout long-term it has to be difficult and you have to be willing to make it difficult for her. If not at best you are kicking the can down the road. It’s very difficult to turn around a WW without them hitting rock bottom first. Read Terrapins thread for good insight on bomb number 2.
I think at best you’re plan B as she searches for OM2. I know it sounds harsh but that’s the reality of it. What’s the plan moving forward as far as IC/MC is concerned? The affair can not be swept under the rug. For you to have a successful relationship you have to see each other as people of value. Not a consolation prize until your son is of age.
Keep GAL like a mad man and really start to think if this is what you want moving forward.
I don't think she is looking for an OM2 right now. She will probably continue with me until she has found enough excuses to defect once again. And at that point, she might look for an OM2. I am planning to bring up IC/MC issue next week.
I am GAL'ing to my satisfaction. But I have not started thinking about what I should be doing about the MR in the future. Been putting it off because it is a tough subject.
Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate having this resource to consult before taking any action with respect to the marriage. I will let it go while she is in town and not allow my subconscious to contrive any ways to initiate contact.
D, not as many fish as in years past but enough for an excellent dinner.
Also, do not move out of the master bedroom. W wants out, let her move to the spare room, or the basement, or the Harry Potter room under the stairs. D
I have not and will not.
Also have appointment for consultation with attorney on Tuesday.
Like you, when I was earlier into this, I often thought it would be easier if my spouse had passed on.
Last year at this time, I may have said that it was equally as hard, yet different.
This year, I can tell you that if I had the choice to make, I would choose Divorce to go through over this.
Some of what you talk about is true. When it's fresh, there are people around you that care, yet that fades like the Sun right after the funeral. Most people are not equipped to deal with loss.
Whether it come from Divorce, and certainly not with Death.
I felt through my Divorce that there were things that came into play about which set of friends that each of us got to "keep", and that aligned with who they were listening to, and getting the story from. And the people who wanted to remain neutral stayed far away so that they didn't "catch" the Divorce bug.
With death, for me, people seemed to be much the same. Most of them say "If there's anything you need, let me know" , or "were here for you if you need anything" which I have learned is an old Indian term for..... I'm gonna stay all nice , safe, and warm here in my own corner because I don't know what to do. So I will do nothing and let the heavy lifting of contact lay with the person grieving. It relieves their guilt over not contacting you because they really don't know what to say, and want to listen even less. Because they gain nothing by just being there, which is all that we really need. Some of my most important phone calls were blocks of time with no words spoken.
Being totally honest, there is a small part of that being an isolation that we create. There is "widows fire" (look it up), there is those old familiar feelings of abandonment that creep in. We push people away before they walk away from us. And if you think that you got tired of well wishers telling you to move on with Divorce ? The silence of them wanting to tell you, the not answering a phone that you have witnessed them being surgically attached to in person, or hearing the heavy sigh on the other end of the phone when you start talking about your partner, the "one day at a time", or the "it will fade in time"....
I would say mostly because their lives haven't changed, and we all mostly have a short attention span when it comes to another persons pain. We say that we are here for people, yet in reality, we are here for other people when it's convenient...
And if you don't believe me, all 3 of the people that responded to you have my personal contact info, ask them how long it's been since they have asked me how I am doing .....
My love for her will never fade in time. And I won't just move on without her. My life from this day forward will be with her living in my heart, and learning how to live while I miss her.
So yea, for me at least, the pipedream of the Hollywoodized "having constant support" is laughable, and I can tell you that every support group I've been in, all say the same thing.
Death vs. Divorce....
After living both, I feel that the purpose of DBing and the route that I walked during my Divorce was to lead me away from the co-dependency of that relationship. I actively was pursuing detachment with a slow steady letting her go with Love, while learning what, "if you love something, set it free " truly meant.
My goal was to let her go...
Through her death, it has been the complete opposite of that. One tries to cling to everything, anything, anyone that will somehow teach you something new, a new story, a shared picture, something that you haven't seen before. You search through and listen to voicemail just to hear the voice one last time, and quite possibly be able to save for down the road. You isolate (which only enhances the exit of friends and well wishers) because the pain of losing them is too intense to deal with. You can be in a room with a million people, yet still feel totally alone in the world. The only thing that you can think is that you want this pain and loneliness to end, by whatever means it happens. That one new thing that you find or hear is what keeps you here and willing to face another day....
The Divorced spouse is still here, and they have life, free will, and a chance at turning around and being in your life....
The deceased spouse has nothing left to offer the world except their memories, stories about them, and pictures. Your love has to carry you through a lifetime of living for you both, and seeing the things that you planned together, living the dreams that you made together, and finding some level of happiness that they can no longer be a part of....and all of that, lives within every facet of your heart.
My Ex wife still lives in a small corner of my heart, and I will always love her in some small way.
K took my heart with her when she passed.
I would never wish either on anyone, because they both share similar pain.
Every road is different for everyone walking it....
When my Ex left, the moving truck backed up and took all of her things....
The Coroner van doesn't have a trailer hitch....
You see one of her things....she's gone
You think of something you want to tell her....she's gone
You see her picture...she's gone
You forgot a couple boxes of your things here....she can't swing by and get them.
You need advice parenting a child...she's gone....
You can't remember the password to pay the power bill....she F'ing gone...
I didn't lose her once and done....I STILL lose her a thousand times every day....
With my Divorce, comparing the 2 for myself, after a year, I was detached enough to start moving forward with my life, for me, and I didn't feel like I lost her over and over again. I wasn't devastated at the occasional interaction with our history.
I don't wanna get all soapbox with you, and I'm not trying to diminish what you have gone through.
I just want you to understand that the differences are not what you might think that they are. And if you are trying to understand, then I want you to have as much information as you can get about both sides of the subject.
Until you've experienced each side that you are discussing, you can never fully understand it. I tell young men waiting for the birth of their first child, that nothing I say to you can describe what you will feel when you watch your child being born, yet IF you've been there and have witnessed it ? I don't have to describe it to you, because you know... There are no words to accurately describe each pain, because they are as unique and individual as the person experiencing them.
It’s interesting how W demands you swear on your son’s life that you are telling the truth. Meanwhile, she is betraying the vows she took. Again, a rather common trait among the WAS/WS.
This is, perhaps, one of the most difficult things for me to understand.
W grew up in a close-knit family. I did not. All of her relatives preach the importance of family. Another one of her favorite quotes, uttered multiple times during our marriage, was "I take my marriage vows seriously."
It is easy to say that, of course, before the test comes. I guess I did not figure her to be someone who, when the going got rough, would just keep quiet and then grab the parachute.
I haven't had much to do with organized religion since I was 19, and W hasn't either. But W always had dreams of a church wedding, and her family wanted it. I remember us interviewing with the priest. He spoke with each of us alone, presumably to ask the same questions.
I remember him asking, "In this church, the only way a marriage ends is by death of one of the partners. Is that the kind of marriage you seek?"
I responded with absolute confidence, "It is."
Twenty-five years after that interview, that is still my answer.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I’d also suspect W is muddying the waters to cover her tracks. Who has she told? And what story has she told? She who protests too much…
D
At this point, who knows? She has a lifelong friend that she saw the other night. They went out to buy a recliner to put in the living room for her upcoming surgery recovery. Did her friend really need to go with her to buy a recliner? She'd be my first guess as someone who knows everything. When she comes home, W sometimes has long phone conversations outside in her car. She's talking to someone.
I've seen her parents and brother since everything started. If they know all the details, they are candidates for an Oscar. (I'm not ruling it out). I think her mother (who knows something about W's discontent) would be especially devastated.
W informed me that she would be back in town for a few days this week. No clue what exactly she is up to but I realize it’s none of my business and is irrelevant.
Despite the progress I have made, I still feel knocked out of equilibrium in these circumstances. I guess if I’m being honest it is because there is some part of that hopes her presence will lead to some situation where she shows up and tell me this nightmare is over. Obviously I know this is not reality. When she is thousands of miles away this fantasy does not cloud my mind.
I’m working on maintaining the resolve to stay true to myself and not reach out to her. I ask for you all to bear witness to this resolve. I know it is the right thing to do. It is not easy.
It is not easy at all. But absolutely required.
You are being too nice.
Originally Posted by URS0
W and I are in our late-30s. No kids.
So what I hear you saying is there is absolutely no reason that the two of you need to interact. (If you had kids, then yes, you need to interact.)
Since she has been gone, are you more attractive to women in general? What is your metrix?
I believe the best action you can take is to ghost her. Reject her completely, not in a mean or ugly way, just in a way that lets you completely heal. If she comes begging you to take her back, then you can reconsider.
Well hello there old friend. I very rarely visit here but decided to today. Nice to read your updates and glad you are well. How sad for OW to lose her life at such a young age. I always wondered if his draw to her was some strong need to feel so needed. I am glad he is prioritizing his kids now. It is so strange how even after so many years passes our history revisits us and our stories continue to unfold. I do like believe that the more we endure and overcome in life, the more grit and character we develop. Take care of yourself.
I’d not worry about her mail over the next few days. Nor worry about the business matters either. Deal with those items next week. Your mind is looking for, and will seek, things that you “need” to do in order to justify contacting her. Let it go.
This is not to be mean to her. It is for you to prove, to yourself, you can do it. And will do it!
Do whatever you’d have been doing if she wasn’t in town.
As for the pile of mail. She moved out. Right? It’s up to her to change her mailing address with her various business and personal contacts.
If you’ve never discussed anything regarding her mail or address, then next week I’d let her know you received some mail for her and she needs to change her address. This is not a new concept to her. She’s made several trips to pick up items and even a car. If you’ve discussed the mail before, just drop the mail back at the post office and tell them that this person doesn’t live here anymore.
If you don’t want to contact her about this can you just write return to sender and move on with your day?
Personally I’d send an email, let her know she has a week to change her address with the post office and in one week her mail will be at such and such place. Or drop them off in a relatives.
I don’t want to initiate contact. She does have a pile of mail here that she somehow needs to get. I was planning on just leaving it outside (as I have previously done with keys to the 2nd car) and letting her know in an email that it is there to be picked up. I have a couple other business items to include in the email that I would batch together.
I don’t know her new address where I could mail them nor do I need to. I don’t know where she is staying here in town that I could drop them off nor do I need to. If you have any alternative ideas to what I have proposed I would be appreciate them.
Kind is correct. Perfectly normal to have such thoughts and feelings. Purposefully allowing a short scheduled time for such wanderings is beneficial. It regains and exerts your control and influence upon the situation.
Originally Posted by URS0
I’m working on maintaining the resolve to stay true to myself and not reach out to her. I ask for you all to bear witness to this resolve. I know it is the right thing to do. It is not easy.
Good for you. Maintain your resolve.
I want to hear how you successfully didn’t reach out or initiate any interactions for the few short days she was there.
I guess if I’m being honest it is because there is some part of that hopes her presence will lead to some situation where she shows up and tell me this nightmare is over.
If anyone on this site (or any other) tells you they never had these thoughts from time to time after BD - they’re lying. It’s totally normal mate.
Don’t try to fight it or hide it. The key with managing these thoughts is to do it for a short, fixed amount of time each day (search my post about rumination on my exercise thread). You let your imagination run wild for say 10 mins, then once your time is up, you get on with your life.
You need to reframe how you think about avoiding contacting her. At the moment, you say it as if it’s something terribly hard to do and you can’t get by.
Think of avoiding contact as depositing a small amount of money in the bank each day. At some point in the future, you’ll either be back together or you’ll be divorced and happy again. Avoiding contact each day is a small deposit towards that end goal. It will actually bring you resolution (however that might look) more quickly than if you find an excuse to make contact. Making contact undoes all that good work - like withdrawing all the money you’ve been saving and gambling it away.
Fours years in, I still have the occasional dream where my ex appears, begging for forgiveness and desperately trying to win me back.
Ironically, for me now, that is not a pleasurable daydream like it once was - but a horrifying nightmare 🧟♀️😳🫣
Hey BeingMe, I just thought I would check in and see how things are going. I know it's been quite awhile since I've been on here. I have a friend that is going to need this forum, so I thought I better check in and make sure things are still up and running.
W informed me that she would be back in town for a few days this week. No clue what exactly she is up to but I realize it’s none of my business and is irrelevant.
Despite the progress I have made, I still feel knocked out of equilibrium in these circumstances. I guess if I’m being honest it is because there is some part of that hopes her presence will lead to some situation where she shows up and tell me this nightmare is over. Obviously I know this is not reality. When she is thousands of miles away this fantasy does not cloud my mind.
I’m working on maintaining the resolve to stay true to myself and not reach out to her. I ask for you all to bear witness to this resolve. I know it is the right thing to do. It is not easy.
