She left, came back, still loves OM, what do I do

[toughlover]

Again, I've just got to ditto GH here...he da man!

Just do things, THIS thing because it's the right, compassionate, loving thing to do. Remember, one of the major parts of marriage is the "better or worse" part. Just because SHE forsake you in that, you don't have to return the favor. You can be the one who accepts the "worse" times and responds with the love and kindness that you committed to when you said "I do".

Those words were not conditional then...as in "I do, so long as she does first, and keeps doing it no matter what..."...is was I do, period.

Oh, man, this is so right on and is exactly the conclusion I came to right after the bomb. Living up to that commitment is good for everyone, and like GH said, it ain't conditional, and it ain't just about staying in the marriage and being a royal pain about it, either. Not that you don't have justification for hurting...but she does too.

But "love, honor, and cherish" has some really deep meaning that goes beyond coming home everynight and earning a living. I mean, if you really think on those words, and the fact that the commitment IS unconditional, then you need look no farther cause it's all about YOU and who YOU are and what YOU give. Man if people could just cut loose and really DO that, not just talk about it, they'd be AMAZED and what came back to them as just the natural flow of life.

You need to start walking the high road right now. You need to do that because you want to be a "high road" kinda guy, not because it will impress your wife.

No doubt! GH rocks.

How about trying to impress yourself.

Really digging this, too. Nothing makes a man feel better than meeting and beating challenges. Well, kirb, this is one of the biggest challenges, hopefully THE biggest, you'll ever face.

It's also amazing how focusing on little challenges will influence your response to the big ones. I started running several weeks before the bomb and just the fact that I was running farther and farther, losing some weight, and making progress on something really spilled over into my general attitude about everything. Things can change. Things can be changed. You start really making and seeing things happen like that and it can really energize and comfort you.

It's all about being positive and doing good things. And the more you do, the more you want to do, and the better you feel, and the more it all keeps the ball rolling.

What I believe you're being called on to do, as a husband and father, is to lead your family out of this mess. That's doubly hard because in many ways you are the one most hurt by it. But imagine what the future will be like when you take the high road and lead your family into it. I see two possible outcomes:

1. You and your wife reconcile, and she, you, and your kids are all in a much better place.

2. Your wife leaves despite the fact that you did your best, but you and your kids are still in a much better place because of who you are.

Given the realities as they exist now, it's a win-win for YOU no matter what as long as you allow it to be.

So, where do you get all this good stuff? Not just from the DB book.

Nothing I've said here or that anyone has said here is anything really new or earthshaking. The DB stuff is, IMO, a brilliant plan for taking real action, but if you think about it the underlying theme and the goal is nothing more than becoming a strong, loving, independent, and emotionally mature person.

The sad truth is that we get into these situations because at some point along the way we started behaving out of weakness, dependence and neediness, selfishness, and immaturity. Two weak, needy people cannot love each other. They can call it whatever they want, they can feel whatever they feel, but in reality, in LIFE, all they're doing is sucking the life out of each other and those around them.

The reason DB works (I think) is that it forces the LBS to become strong, then you are truly able to love someone else out of that strength. When the WAS starts experiencing that love, which is REAL love, the kind that puts someone else's best interest above our own selfishness, and also sees you becoming strong and independent and no longer dependent on them!, very often they want that back because, finally, when they're given space and time to focus on themselves (as the DB-er has been doing) the light finally goes off:

A-ha! Love is a choice! It's not so much about finding the right person but about being the right person (I think that's from Gary Thomas, "Sacred Marriage").

And often (I think) they intuitively recognize (even if they don't actually think this) that what their DB-ing spouse can give them now is actually BETTER than whatever they thought they'd get from the OP...who, incidentally, many realize, was so selfish that they were willing to allow or encourage our spouses to lie, cheat, whatever just to be with THEM and give THEM what THEY want. And maybe our WAS recognizes, at some level, that building a life off of this would be possible, but cheap because it would be a permanent reminder of mostly personal failure.

And, if the OP were capable, at that point in time, of truly loving your spouse, he would not pursue someone's wife and mother and help them dishonor or disgrace themself.

And then the spouse, over a long, long period of time and hard work, looks at their LBS, sees how much better they are handling themselves now, and recognizes that, by golly, what I have here is a damn nice person who has faults, but is willing to work on them, who has made some important changes, and who has stuck by me regardless! What luck!

Now, maybe the WAS actually realizes some or all of this, maybe not...maybe they really just sense it subconsciously, or maybe it's all a big steaming pile or donkey crap, but it's how I see it

[25yearsmlc]

Dear TL,

thanks for saying that there is more to being a good husband than coming home and earning a living....My H seems to believe that H has done his job by making money, even if he lives 3000 miles away...parents by phone and supports by check...

You know, if we all just kept our marriage vows, we wouldn't be here.
Sounds simple, doesn't it?
j-

[kirby]

Now you tell me.

Another little light bulb went on. I didn't live up to my vows. Of course, having had my own A, I knew that, but in many other ways, I didn't keep my vows either.

Changing the subject a bit, I just got back from rescuing my wife. She ran out of gas and called me. It felt good to be able to help her. I think everything went fine, but she didn't know how to turn off the emergency flashers. I leaned into the car, across her, to turn them off. When I was done, I caught myself waiting for a kiss. Then I remembered that I was in a new relationship, backed out, we said our thankyous and welcomes, and went our separate ways. She did honk to me as she left.

So, I was able to do something nice for her, and I didn't mess it up to badly. I feel better.

[flying_solo]

TL and GH, great advice. I have been following Kirby's post given it is similiar to where I am at right now. I not only forgot my vows, I did not understand them in the first place. My w is waiting for me to act as if as opposed to just talking about it. Kirby I am not meaning to hi jack your post just wanted to comment on the great advice.

[toughlover]

Hey, yeah, we're not perfect. We're gonna screw up and we know that. However, I'll bet if we focus on truly fulfilling those vows we recited and committed to, we'd see things differently and things would be different.

I know many of our petty problems disappeared almost immediately when I started living up to my vows.

That made me think that the serious problems were not insurmountable with hard work.

[25yearsmlc]

I think it was Ricardo Montebon who was married for over 40 years. When asked how they had succeeded in staying happily married, he said:

"WE UNDERSTOOD OUR MARRIAGE VOWS WHEN WE MADE THEM AND WE MEANT THEM... THEN WE KEPT THEM." I'll never forget that quote. Hard to do? Yes. Complicated? No.
j-

[kirby]

Unfortunatley, I'm thinking again.

My wife called to tell me she made it home OK. She thanked me again for helping her out. I said "my pleasure", and what I think I heard her say (not in words but in tone) was "yes, I'm sure you think I'll just fall in love with you because you brought me gas, when it was probably your fault I ran out of gas anyway".

I shouldn't read negative intentions into her words without proof, but I feel I'm much more sensitive to tone and non verbal communication than I was.

I can just let it go, smile, but I want to tell her that I didn't expect anything in return, and she should give me credit for doing something nice without any strings attached.

I know, I should keep my mouth shut. Please, someone,tell me that so I don't open my mouth.
thanks

[toughlover]

Keep your mouth shut, Kirby. She didn't mean that, and if she did, she was being silly, to a degree.

but I want to tell her that I didn't expect anything in return, and she should give me credit for doing something nice without any strings attached.

That's a lie, bro (sorry for the 4x4 ) because if there were truly no strings or expectations you wouldn't have a need to tell her even that.

High road, bro, high road.

You're hypersensitive, but there's a reason you feel that way...because while it's good that you were there to help her, it would be better if she didn't find herself in a situation where she needed help for something like that.

I'm not saying it was your fault, cause it wasn't (she's an adult, she can put gas in the car), but it doesn't matter.

From now on, without saying anything about it to her before or after, just always make sure that there's plenty of gas in her car. Treat the half-full mark as though it were empty and when you see it at half or less, top it off.

Start doing things that show you're paying attention and you're taking care of her, adjusting to her and making her life easier...not because she'll love you for it, but because you're the kind of guy who takes care of those details for his family.

[25yearsmlc]

K,

steal her thunder by making a joke like - "honey, we both know I alone am responsible for ALL bad things that happen to you and I have NOTHING to do with anything good that happens or that I appear to be doing....." If you say this with humor AND NOT so much sarcasm, it can work. It's all in the attitude and act as if you believe the words, just a little bit. They're so extreme she'll recognize the nuttiness of her view without being able to blame you...I do it a lot and it works for me...so far.
j-

[peter2DB]

Kirby, TL, GH and friends.....

Folks for me this thread is very profound and it totally distills with great wisdom where I am and where I should be going to in pursuing my pesonal development and growth in my life generally and in my sitch in particular.

I want to thank you guys from the bottom of my heart for sharing your wisdom at such length and so generously.

Bless you all

Peter