She left, came back, still loves OM, what do I do

[kirby]

I think I'm geting it. I think I'm getting the idea that I have to let her go and be strong for myself if there can be a chance I can get her back. It doesn't make sense, but it might work. It might allow me to keep some dignity and make myself happy, and, be a strong, good father for my children.

But actually putting it in practice is hard, especially having patience. I just KNOW that if we would talk, my logic would convince her. I just KNOW that she must want to love me and want the kind of R we can build.

But, since I've tried talking, I know it has the opposite affect. .

Tonight, after dinner, that we cooked together, she asked if I'd like her to sit at the table with me and talk. I said I'd like that but she didn't have to do that. I'm OK. She stayed with me anyway. We had a slightly awkward conversation about nothing. Should I have said that I'd like her to join me? Is that expressing too much affection and need?

And then the totally irrational and paranoid thoughts hit me. Suddenly today at work I thought, she's just waiting until after Christmas to leave again. I couldn't get the thought out of my head. I had to find someone to call and express my fears to before I could get a grip on myself again.

OK, this is getting long, but I need help with the strategy part. I'm really having a hard time thinking what I can do that would be different or changing. I have always wanted to take Aikido, but our budget really doesn't have room for that now. If she gets a job, I could take Aikido, but I can't pressure her to get a job, and then could I use that money for me?

What can I do that's out of character for me that she would like? She mainly likes to be alone - extreme introvert in most ways. I think I'll set up a little birthday party for her. We never really celebrated b-days much. Would that seem manipulative if I did that? I was thinking of calling her 2 closest friends (not that close) and setting something up, without me in attendance. I think she would like that but it may seem I'm trying too hard.

She is starting to resist the MC, and my 'niceness'. I can hear it in her voice. She feels the MC is manipulating her. Why she is mad at me I can only guess based on a post I read; she is mad that NOW I'm being, or starting to be, the man she wanted. Where was that man all those years she was miserable?

OK, long enough. Thanks.

[25yearsmlc]

K,
You're getting great advice here. Take it. As for the "not believing what they say and only half of what they do," that applies to Mid Life Crisis people. MLCers are, in the DB world, like people who've been abducted by aliens....So, may not apply fully to your sitch.

Your W's A is diff in that it was a first love and so it was "pure" and original. IF she knew of your A first, then decided she'd been denying herself "real" love out of duty, while you had a fling/type A, then no way didn't she mind that you had an A. She must have resented her denying herself a "real" love and so, She just got a great excuse to act on it....I think she knew. ??

And as the men have told you, STOP telling her what you are doing. It may feel honest to you to tell her everything you are thinking about, and doing and why, but to me, as a woman, it would look and feel like manipulation. WHO CARES IF IT ISN'T that, if SHE thinks it is? What she thinks and feels is what matters, not who is "right", so, lose DB talking around her, or giving her the books, etc. And listen to these wonderful men who are giving you such great insights.

Good luck, you are in the right place but you must be much more patient. At some level, you were not meeting her needs, and if you think you were, then you are not really looking or listening or something. No way.

For the record, my H's mlc is turning better with a lot of progress the last 3 months. It has been almost 18 months total, so far. I'm getting into the "piecing it together again" section, which is good. It's all I can do for now. And that's MY timeline. So you have a reference point. I think it'll take a year of us together, seeing H's changes and mine, to feel safe again. Doesn't mean it sucks now, but doesn't feel totally safe yet either. And to my knowlege, no A either. That would delay a reconciliation for me, if it could even happen with that. Just me.

good luck,
j-

[kirby]

I'm starting to learn how to navigate around this bb. I found your first post, I think, and read your sitch, grasshopper. I was stunned to read my own story, at least at first. It sounded so similar. It helped me see what I was doing wrong, talking too much, over analysing, sounding like whining when I tried to talk about R instead of loving. Wow. It seems like there are a lot of us that are in this boat. It's nice to have company. I wish none of us were here.

It's encouraging to hear that your M is getting better. I have to admit it's a little discouraging to see how long it takes. At least things can get better.

Thanks for sharing. As I learn to navigate in here, and learn to put these ideas into action, I hope to be able to help other newcomers.

Thanks,

[kirby]

j-
Thanks for the input.

Like you, if I understood your comment correctly, I don't think I could continue with working on the R if my W contacted the OM again. I'm so jealous and hurt, and fearful that she will go back to him, that I think I would respond with anger and divorce. I'm trying to prepare myself for the possibility and so I won't over react.

thanks again,

[kirby]

I'm trying to follow the advice I'm getting, and overall think I'm doing a pretty good job. I believe there is a passage in the DB book that says if you mess up, don't be too hard on yourself and carry on. I've definitely messed up a few, probably more than a few, times, but if I have to pat myself on the back, and I guess I do, I have to say I’ve been pretty strong.

The one place I am probably messing up is that I’m still talking too much. I often plan to just talk about scheduling a C session, or the kids schedules, but then things come up about the R, and W seems to want to hear, and we talk. She tells me how she feels. She is brutally honest, which, despite the pain, I’m very thankful for.

This Sunday morning, we talked. It was painful, but good to feel close and some intimacy with her. In the past, I would ask for a hug at the end of the talk. She would ‘allow’ me a hug. I’m learning. This time I didn’t ask for a hug. I was willing to let it go. She came over and gave me what I think was a sincere hug. I didn’t hug back too hard, I released first (in my memory). I felt something really positive had happened.

After she left to go study with a friend (she is working on her PhD) I had to call people, and be with people to tell them how optimistic and happy I was. I’m glad I talked it out, and brought myself back to reality. I know I have to guard against having expectations. I know I have to GAL, make myself happy, take care of the kids and me, and not allow her reactions to influence my well being. But it’s hard not too.

Luckily, when she came back, there was enough of the anger and distance in her voice that it was easy to drop the expectations. I won’t expect bad results, but I’m trying not to be optimistic too.

I’m trying to take a long term view. I think 6 months at a time is reasonable. I’ll look for small, positive steps, and continue to work on myself. I’ve just read grasshopper’s first post. I sounded so much like my sitch that I was surprised. He discovered one of his problems that he had to work on, and I think it’s one I have too. Now I’ve got something to work on and think about.

It really helps to have a place to share thoughts, feelings, and to get advise and guidance. I'm glad I found this place.

[grasshopper]

Like you, if I understood your comment correctly, I don't think I could continue with working on the R if my W contacted the OM again. I'm so jealous and hurt, and fearful that she will go back to him, that I think I would respond with anger and divorce. I'm trying to prepare myself for the possibility and so I won't over react.

They almost ALWAYS contact the OM again, or are contacted by him again. It's one of the universals. I denied it would happen in my sitch and then a couple weeks ago...BAM, out of the blue, W is crying about him calling her and wanting him just to go away.

Sure, in my case, it SEEMS like there is nothing to worry about but you have to understand that in most cases YOU DON'T KNOW what they are talking about. Not that them talking is good for any reason, but for you to say you'd react with anger and divorce if she contacted him again...read again CONTACTED him...not even seeing him in person, seems a bit extreme.

Please learn to focus on what you can control, which is YOUR life and not hers. You can only try to forge a bond, a love with her that makes her WANT to be with you.

Jealousy, although perfectly normal, is all about feeling like you're losing control. You never had it my friend. You only think you did. You can't MAKE her stay with you. Denying her access to him won't change anything if she doesn't feel a strong enough bond with YOU, and that means you need to stop worrying so much about what he is or isn't doing and worry about you and your R with your W.

If she wants to go with him, fine, she can go. You can't stop her, period. The more you try, the more you're daddy trying to keep his 16 year old daughter in on Prom Night.

This idea is one of the hardest parts about all this. The anger and pain feels SO right, that it's almost impossible to replace those with acceptance and love.

It's MUCH harder to walk away from someone who's showing love and kindness towards you, UNCONDITIONAL love and kindness than someone who's cursing your every breath.

Oh, and BTW, what HE's showing/showed to her probably FEELs a whole lot more like unconditional love than whatever you've been displaying lately. Think about it. All the time she was with him, he knew he was sharing. Every time they talk, it's almost always, in some way about you and yet he stays. He endured because he THOUGHT your W was going to end up with him.

I am in no way painting him a hero. He's an a$$hole to the highest order, if only for this action, but there IS something to understand about the usual nature of these things. He seemed like the one that was there for her. He seemed like the one that she could talk to. He seemed like the one who was passionately in love with her, and I don't care if they spent 1 hour or 1 month together, that's the nature of THAT beast.

SO, please try to understand that either you want to save your M or you don't. Either you want to be "right" or you want to be married. That doesn't mean you just sit back and let everything slide but it DOES mean that no one event, no one thing should be a deal breaker...unless you really mean that it is, and then you better not look back once you start walking.

GH

[toughlover]

Like you, if I understood your comment correctly, I don't think I could continue with working on the R if my W contacted the OM again. I'm so jealous and hurt, and fearful that she will go back to him, that I think I would respond with anger and divorce. I'm trying to prepare myself for the possibility and so I won't over react.

IMO, GH wrote the definitive answer on this but, bro, you're being awfully dramatic about this. Setting boundaries is fine, but artificial ultimatums (that you and I both know you don't really want nor mean) and so-called dealbreakers will just make you look and feel pretty immature if you're flying off the handle but aren't following through.

[kirby]

OK, so I think I'm dealing with a lot of issues, asking lots of questions, and then both GH and TL focus right in on the real crux of my problem; I haven't let go of thinking about the OM. I didn't get a D when W first said she was going to him, why would I if she was in contact with him now? I know that's not what I want, really. I know I want to really give our M/R a shot to work.

Struggling to find that distance and perspective. It's been just over a month for me since she came back. Things are better then I thought they could be, given the situation (meaning it hurts like hell, but it could be worse). Just keep wacking me, please, until I get it.

[25yearsmlc]

Whoa dudes!

All I meant was that in MY H's MLC, I have not had to deal with OP and if I did, it'd be much harder for me. But don't come up with an ultimatum and GH hit it all on the head with his post. And please stop diagnosing her....OMG, it does "sterilze" the most beautiful thing she thinks she's ever found/had. Avoid UNemotional things like that, okay? Be Mr. Sensitive.

Let me rephrase something someone else said also, Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? B/C there are times in life when you cannot be both....it is a HUGE lesson to learn in this situation....HUGE LIFE LESSON....

My H was WRONG to leave me and the d's for a job in Alaska, no matter how much money he will someday earn, and he was wrong to make the decision alone, behind my back. Yes, I get that. I have done a lot of work on it and here is what I've learned. My H was "wrong"....BUT I want to stay M to him...!!

..So, where does that leave me? I can keep on beating my "rightness" into him, which accomplishes what????? Nothing but keeping us apart.

The only thing I feel the "right" and "need" to know, or FEEL, is that H gets that he hurt me/our M and doesn't want to do that again. How can he convince me of that? (I will let you know when I figure that out....)

I think it was Thomas Moore, in the "Dark Nights of the Soul" who said that we may be left in the lurch, by a long time companion we loved deeply, but the way we recover our sense of self is NOT by avoiding the blame for it, but by moving forward, thru it. The journey to self actualization is an INTERNAL journey....does this help you at all? We must focus on US and not on them. That is their job, if they wish to do it.

I only know I want to move forward in my life. I am 47 now, and even though I look younger, I'm in good shape, and men are attracted to me, that is all temporary.....looks will pass and frankly, I have to face the real possibility of being alone down the road. Guess what? I am okay with that, at least today.

And who knows? IF H is NOT the man for me, I don't want to spend the rest of my life facing that...and being treated in a way that feels inauthentic. By staying in a bad M, I lose the chance of ever having what I want and need.
IF he is the man for me, as I hope, then I need to let him be that man without rubbing his face in his "wrongness" all the time. Any of this making sense?
Hope so. Good luck,
j-

[Contyankee]

25yearsmic,

Your 1st sentence described me that way towards my W. Its a tough road and I am glad you gave me the tough advice when I needed it. I am making some progress within myself and really trying very hard. I have learned that even if I don't validate what my W is saying or feeling, that doesn't mean that she is wrong. Regardless of that, those feelings are validated and I have told her that.

I hope to hear from you soon and our thread is Winning the Control War with Love under the forum "I'm thinking of Leaving." I have gotten some sound advice and am still learing and have taken some baby steps in this process.
Rocco