mattie, you make perfect sense to me. my h never felt worthy. and yes he set about to prove it. testing me to see if i would leave? to see if i would give up on him? he chose to have affairs with 2 low class undesirables and you really helped me with your last post to gain some understanding. it still hurts like hell however. and i truly need to get past my anger at the 2nd ow. it is my pride that is wounded that i need to get past. i can't stand that the ow thought she could get my h away from me. she set out on her quest the moment she saw my pic on h's desk. it was a thrill for her to make a pretty woman's h cheat. she is not attractive by any definition. i never knew i was vain, but there has to be some aspect of that if i am so upset about this. i am not proud of this. you gave me a lot to think about. lisa
There is so much fear on this board. We are all so afraid to say the wrong thing, look the wrong way, express our feelings, ask questions and get answers. Is this really the way it's supposed to be? In many cases, isn't this the reason many of us are here?
I'm so tired to tippy-toeing around my "depressed" H. If I want to ask a question I should be able to, and I should expect an honest answer. I'm tired of being afraid to bring up anything "bad" for fear of that look on his face and the sigh in his voice. I want, need, and deserve answers to my questions. I may be afraid of the answers, but I don't want to live with dishonesty anymore. I don't want to live in fear anymore. I just want the truth.
These erring spouses of ours have reeked such havic and destruction in our lives, and we are the ones who must say, "It's okay, honey. You weren't yourself. You didn't know what you were doing. You were sick. I forgive you." Bull. No matter what they were "going through" they still knew the difference between right and wrong; they still knew the pain they were about to cause all for their own gratification. They didn't care about breaking up their families. They didn't care about what their behavior would do to their children. They didn't "think" about the consequences. I simply do not understand that.
Guess I'm in an angry mode right now. Thanks for listening to my tirade. Maybe it will keep me from blasting my H later tonight -- then again, maybe it won't.
I wonder if we get in this angry mood again from reading so many hurtful stories here?
When read about someone's spouse making their kids cry, I find it hard to forgive---and then I start relating it back to home. Let's face it, if we have kids our spouses left them, too---and, at BEST, they think "child support" and "visitation" is good parenting! The fact is, they put their kid/s way down on the priority list. Period.
I was thinking about this again tonight, as I was arguing w/ my son about his bedtime during school nights. I have no back-up! I let it go, did something else with him, then said again, oops! Time for bed. That time there was no problem. I have opportunity to do enough nice things w/ s to be able to play the heavy, too, I guess.
I brought up his dad in positive ways twice tonight, to keep his "presence" in the family---but I started thinking how I needed to confront this issue in c.
I hope you found some peace venting here, Mattie. Our H's are well aware of right and wrong and what hurts people. The question is, what CAN they do about it? What would make it up?
For me, I think acknowledgement is a must. And you know what? I even feel sorry for him for that! What's up with that?
I've been having the same thoughts lately. Luckily there was no OW in a PA, but I think in an EA there was, he of course doesn't.
There are still many things I want to say and tell him from when I was crying while posting or sobbing into my pillow or venting my anger on these boards. But even though we are getting along very well, I'm still walking on eggshells. I hate having to act like that all never happened. Like his "I'm sorry" made it all go away and it never hurt or happened. I'm very content with the way things are going but the past few days I've been very happy to hear his depression in missing us and not wanting to be alone where he is. I know that's wrong in my beliefs, but there is a part of me deep down that says....GOOD! You be the one to miss and hurt for a bit. I'm sad to say that I think that's why I'm so content if he doesn't come home this weekend. I know I have the boys with me and we'll just have a restful and fun weekend. H on the other hand will have the first weekend in a year that he hasn't come home to see them and me (since we reconciled) since "the bomb".
I could ramble on, but I won't. Just know that you are not the only one still wanting answers or walking on eggshells. I wonder if I'll ever stop walking on them. H tells me there is no need...yeh, right?...until I ask or say something about "the bomb" era of our lives.
BTW...I printed all of my journaling from the boards and have it saved. One day when I know we are definately ok, maybe our 25 wedding anniversary, I hope to let him read my journaling. I don't think he will ever totally understand the pain and hurt w/o that.
I hope venting here helped you to stay on the eggshell path....for now.
Hi Mattie,
A while back you visited my thread and I've been keeping up on yours. Your recent post got me to thinking ... when I first came to this forum, I asked if I should perhaps do things differently. Advice came back to keep DBing the same way that got you here. Going back to Michelle's DR, I discovered that when first dealing with fighting to have S return to R, the arsenal of DBing tools is more restricted. We focus on doing 180's to improve OURSELVES + emphasis placed on learning to detach and not pursue, etc... But when reaching the level of piecing the R, we are still stuck in the same behavior pattern, when in fact we have reach a stage in R where additional DBing tools can be applied. It is time to start experimenting again to find out what else might work in quicking the pace to strengthen the R! This time with a slightly different technique to achieve our goals. Instead of looking for 180's just to improve yourself, look for 180's that will improve how you interact with each other. The best tool for this is the section in Michelle's book on to "Ask for what you want".
Start out small. (If you wish, drop by my thread to see how I have recently applied this.) Then sit back and see how they respond. If it works, try it again, just keep in focus that what you ask for should be to bring you closer together. This should help guide you in what you are asking for is not bigger than S can "chew". If it works, it also brings on a tremendous amount of PMA! If it doesn't work, then you need to keep trying something different until you strike on what does works.
For anyone coming to this forum "piecing", my advise is to reread DR for there is quite a bit in that book that had to be skipped over when only one is working at R, but now is the time to start dipping toes in again to see if there are two working at it and if there are, then there are more DBing tools in the book that can now be tapped.
Thank you so much. You make so much sense -- I know you do. I am just in a bad place right now. I am angry. I am ready to say "screw it." I feel like the reality of my situation is just becoming clear to me -- like I've been trying for so long to "save" my M that I haven't really thought about the consequences of what that would mean.
My H has been involved with 3 OWs during our 18-year marriage. I cannot make excuses for him anymore. I cannot say, "Poor depressed, H, that's okay. You weren't thinking straight." No matter how depresed he was, he knew what he was doing was wrong. He made choices. He did not care about the consequences of those choices.
So, now he tells me he loves me and what a fool he was. It took 3 relationships to figure that out? What will happen next year, or the year after that, or the year after that? I'm not sure I have the strength to start over again -- one more time.
This last episode of having an EA after having dropped the bomb about the two PA's last October and after witnessing first-hand the pain he put me through borders on outright cruelty. How can someone love a person and be so cruel? And, do I want that kind of love? How do I respect myself for wanting to stay with a man who would emotionally abuse me this way?
He is in couselling now to work through his "issues." He wants to find the reason why he did these things. I think that is important for him to know so that hopefully he won't repeat the same mistakes in the future. But, for me, what does it really matter the "why" of it? Will that make it any better for me? I don't think so. Sometimes there is just too much damage done -- no matter how much love still exists.
It's ok Mattie-we're intitled to these days-it's in the rules somewhere. I have alot of them. We'd be idiots not to ask ourselves why we put up with what they've done to us. Some days I can come up with no good reasons, most days it's becasue I've been with this man for 31 yrs total, have 3 children with him and aside from doing this terrible thing I beleive him to be a man of integrity. That last one I question on really bad days. Rachael
Mattie-I keep thinking what I'd do if I found out my H was still cheating on me. If I ask for an itemized copy of his cell bill and her # is on there then he is at the VERY least still talking to her which he has promised me repeatedly that he hasn't. I think I would tell him to make up his mind who he wants and act accordingly-if he can;t go without talking to her then I do not want to be involved in a threesome. I won't share my H. He would not share me if the table were turned. IT would then be totally up to him to do whatever. File for divorce,tell me its over for good and try to won me back in which case I don't know if he could becasue I don;t know that I could ever trust him again after the way he'd been lying to me. This may not even be an issue. He may be doing what he says he's doing. I have no way of knowing except those detailed cell bills.I am going to ask for a copy of them for the last 3 months. He's been home for 5 months. Your H sounds like he is giving it his all to totally commit to you. I know how hard it is for youto trust him if he has been unfaithful 3 times. My H has been unfaithgul 1 time but for a long period of time. I know he cares for her. I don;t know if he is in love with her. He tells me he loves me. This from a man who was sleeping with both of us and telling both of us that he loved us. HE says he loved us in different ways. Who cares?? He's MARRIED-he should not be telling another woman helovese her in ANY way. I was not going to bring the cell bill up but I decided it was fear that was keeping me from it. Fear of finding out he truth if he is lying and fear of how I would handle it. I have to be ready to face that fear head on. It would be better to know the truth than to live a lie and have half of a marriage. MY H is not doing allthe thigns yours is doing to prove to me that he is being faithful. He's not the type. He thinks he tells me once that should be good enough, but its not after the long deciebt. HE would have to face his children again and our friends and he could have the OW and all her bagage that he claims he wants nothing to do with, I know he loves me-my fear is that he lovese her too in some capacity. HE has allowed this to happen and now has to live withit. HOW he lives with it is my comcern. IF he is faithful to me he will eventually get over her and see it for what it was. If he is not faithful to me, he will lose me. I have no idea what I;d do or how I'd take care of myself, but I could not live like that-always afraid he was cheating on me. Your H is doing what I wish My H would do. Take responsibility to find out why and how this happened and do everything in his power to make me beleive that I could trust him. I think you should give your H another chance if you feel it in your heart to do so. He obviously wants you and is working very hard to let you know that. I hope and pray I don't have any reason to give my H an ultimatum. HE should have ordered that cell phone bill anyway even when I told him he didn't have to jsut to prove to me-but he didn't and now I'm wondering why. THis is so hard. IT should not be allowed to happen in marriages-the oain is too great. Keep your chin up! Rachael
Show me a person whose S has cheated on them and who has not express anger then I can point to you someone who is not in touch with their emotions!!! We, who have been hurt by adulterous S, have all asked the same questions and you truly have to search deep in your soul to come up with the answers that are right for you. But keep in mind that if you decide to stick with it the anger will subside.
As far as the fear of whether S will do it again? Have you notice changes in his behavior that you have not seen before? "Doing what works...stop what doesn't" is for both partners. When they come back to R and reach the point where they decide they want to genuinely stay in R, then the roles will seem to reverse. You will see them doing 180's and you will doubt in they are for real! and then after time you will come to realize that they are and then will you get your validation that what they have done is behind the both of you. Is this the first time, he is consider C? If so and he stays with it, it will show this he is trying to make that change.
What this requires of you is patience. Frustrating as HELL...DAMN RIGHT IT IS but it is the pain we are required to go through if we desire to save our M...
My last post more dealt with your frustrations of feeling of tiptoeing on eggshells around him. While getting them to return to R our DBing can make us feel that way, after they return and decided that you both can now work on R, then there are other ways to DB so that we no longer have to feel like we have to tiptoe around how they feel.
Sorry if this seems a little disconnected...posting from work and keep getting interrupted...
If it doesn't work, then you need to keep trying something different until you strike on what does works.
and then after time you will come to realize that they are and then will you get your validation that what they have done is behind the both of you. Is this the first time, he is consider C? If so and he stays with it, it will show this he is trying to make that change.
but it is the pain we are required to go through if we desire to save our M...