Mattie, you and I are in pretty much the very same boat! 17th anniversary is Sunday. 2 "flings" and one EA/PA.
I had an emotional discussion about this w/ my c, as to what it all meant as far as what I'd been accepting and what I would accept in the future...and whether he could deliver.
One thing, either way, whether we work out or not, I'm getting restitution. Are you getting any restitution besides the avowals of love?
My H wasn't even giving the avowals but they are starting to emerge as I stand back.
((((((MATTIE))))))!!! Don't really know what I could say that would help you out of the mood you are experiencing right now so I will just send you some hugs and tell you that I am here for you...I care about you... and I am in your corner!!!! No one expects you to be upbeat and happy everyday! After everything you have been through it is only natural to have some bad days!! It is normal that you feel like throwing up your hands and yelling "I QUIT"!! But I know that you are a very strong woman and you have worked so very hard to get where you are. Just hang in there hon!! You are doing everything right and you are on the right track!! Just take care of MATTIE!! Your Friend, PAT
I'm not sure whether I'm just having a bad day or if I am slowly coming to the realization that this mess can't be pieced back together.
You see, I was working very hard the past year to "get over" the shock of my H's infidelities. In the beginning, my H did all the same things he's doing now -- counselling (MC not individual), asking me to forgive him, telling me how much he loved me and wanted to work on the M. What a load of crap! He was involved with the EA!! He tells me they were still just "friends" at the point he dropped the bomb on me. Then he tells me that he felt the damage had already been done to our M and that I'd never forgiven him, so I guess that gave him license to get more emotionally involved with the EA. Sure doesn't sound like he was putting much effort into the rebuilding of our M, does it?
Today he composed an E-mail to the EA telling her how he wanted to put an end to a very sad chapter in his life and that he wanted and needed to follow God's path. He spoke about how he's repeatedly failed his family and wants to try to reestablish himself as a loving husband and father. He told her how wrong it was to have gotten involved with her and that he questions the feelings that he had for her, but that whatever they were, they were not true. He said he wants to continue to foster love, happiness and contentment with his family and with our love, forgiveness, and God's grace he expects to achieve great things.
Sounds great, huh? I told him weeks ago I wanted him to do something like this as a show of respect to me. It wasn't until today after having been really angry with him last night that he decided to do it. Also, he wrote something vaguely similar to the PA last January. So, it's just more of the same old thing. Doesn't hold much meaning to me. In fact, I told him not to send anything on my behalf because it really wouldn't make any difference to me anymore. And that's the way I really feel.
I have seen some changes in his behavior. Not near enough for me to trust him. See the thing is, he's not doing any 180's. These men who are dead serious about convincing their S that they are changing is the huge 180's they do-they get their own C,and go by themselves. They offer reassurance without having to be asked for it. My H is not doing these things. He had a 2.5 yr affair. I am suppose to believe he broke it off in one day???? He promises me there has been no contact of any kind. I say fine. Show me proof. I deserve more than just your word when your word has been nothing but lies for 2.5 yrs! I know the anger would subside after awhile. Maybe he would be willing to break it off once and for all if backed into a corner. I know he does not want to hurt me and the kids again and be labeled a liar and cheat once again, but even though the anger would subsude it would be far less painful that having to live with the doubt and fear that he is cheating on me. My world has evaporated because of this affair. Sorry-I'm not as strong as some on here who seem to go on with their daily routines saying that the # 1 thing is to work on yourself. I say BS. I say the number one thing is to find out if your mate is someone you can trust and not waste away you life living with someone who is not willing to give you 100% of themself. I don't want to find out 3 yrs down the road that he is still seeing someone else. I want to know it now so I CAN get on with my life whatever that me be. My H has been my world-right or wrong that's the way it has been always. I was always his world too until this happened. If I'm no longer his world, if someone else is then he should be man enough to do what he needs to do. If I am his world and he just has some kind of addiction to her he better get it under control because I'm not sharing. She may be willing to , but I'm not. Thing is I know he does not want to marry her so why would ne risk losing everything for her? I hope all this is just speculation, because beleive me I don't want more pain than what I already have, but I need to know the truth and I know if he's been talking to her it will be on his cell bill. He could not call singular and ask them to take off certain #'s could he? I would think not but I don't know. He's been gone 8 days now and I've had alot of time to think. It's time for some action since I am the one with all the doubt. If he has nothing to hide then he should be more than happy to show the bills to me to give me that much more reassurance. I'm tired of walking on eggshells around him trying to be everything he needs and wants and him still finding the negative in me and saying no positve unless our c starts us out saying affirmations about one another. He never tells me I look good or sexy-he used to ALL the time. There's alot of things he used to do that he does not do anymore and I want to make sure its not becasue he's telling it to someone else. Rachael
Not sure what you mean by restitution. Sounds interesting. Please explain.
Pat,
Yeah, who would know what to say to me I feel like I'm being hit over the head with a 2 x 4 -- "don't you get it, Mattie? This person you trusted and loved has betrayed you 3 -- count 'em 3 times. Just how much abuse are you willing to take?" Even our kids tell me they'd understand if I felt I couldn't try anymore. It's not what they'd like, ideally, but even they think it's too much to bear.
KAW,
I understand what you were saying about the walking on eggshells while DBing until the R gets back on tract -- which is probably where we are now, except that because he's been diagnosed as being severely depressed I still have to continue to "be careful." I still need to coddle him and make him feel worthy. Well, what about me? When do I get some of what I need to help me heal? Oh, yeah, I forgot. I'm supposed to just take care of me, too. (Boy, that sounded a lot more sarcastic than I meant -- I think ) Thanks for your support and validation in my anger. Sometimes I get the feeling "anger" is a no-no in DBing.
So, last night I get angry and tell my H exactly how I feel. Today he can't stop telling me how much he loves me. He writes the e-mail I described above. And, oh, by the way, I just received an E-card from him -- really cute -- "Let's try again." Geeze. Why does it have to take me getting to this point for him to realize he has to DO something? Yes, I know, I know. He's depressed. He's in MLC. (Oh, by the way, was he in MLC or was he depressed 13 years ago with OW #1???) He's got every excuse in the book.
So, do I want to save my M? I'd love to be married to the man I thought I was married to for all these years. I'm really not sure about the man he's turned out to be. I suppose I must wait and see who that person turns out to be.
People say I'm strong for handling this situation the way I have. Really? I question if I'm not really just the opposite -- weak and afraid.
I read on Stalks' thread where she questions whether it's worth it. Someone told her that it was a healthy place to be. I found this profound.
The post was something about now you know you don't NEED your spouse. Now you can focus on WANTING to be w your spouse.
Look at it this way.
Sage decided he didn't need me. Circumstances blew his fantasy apart and he found me ready and willing to go the distance to bring our R to a healthy place. He stayed for the wrong reasons (money, home, yada yada yada). Back in the spring he realized that he wanted to stay for THE right reason. He realized he WANTED to stay.
Now we're cleaning up the mess and fixing it yada yada yada.
Matilda, I swear there is some rhyme and reason to what we're going through in these situations that revolve around this 'thing called love'.
I went through the same thing this spring...he was obsessing about OW while pretending to "try" to repair the M.
The question is not how much damage has already been done...the question is what will motivate them to change? Will we have to distance every single time in order for them to pursue, or try to make it up?
Or can we change that dynamic? That's a tall order, and I'm just beginning to look for the answer, so I hope someone has some answers for you!!
Restitution was discussed in the book After the Affair. There are inexpensive and expensive behaviors that the straying spouse can offer up as restitution for the damage done.
The ILYs and reassurances are the INEXPENSIVE ones. The expensive ones are grand gestures and serious sacrifices, such as leaving a job if the OW is there, or MOVING if OW is in your town, or signing the house over to you (THAT's what I'm going for). The betrayed spouse gets to determine what behaviors s/he needs to see.
For instance, I'd love to move *away* since the OW moved *here*, but I know H would never agree, because of his work. Besides, our s wouldn't like it.
So, I'm going to ask for the house.
You need to see the ATA book to get a better explanation of why this is important, but it feels right to me, just thinking about it.
I hope you're right. I'd like there to be some reason for going through this. Interesting thought -- focus on "wanting" to be w H. I guess that's my dilema -- do I want to be with someone who's treated me so cruely? Probably not the best way to look at it. Where are those positive thoughts when you need them?
Rachael,
If you need to see the cell phone bills then by all means get them. You deserve some peace of mind. I would also like you to think about the fact that Adrian is probably still processing all the hurt that he's caused you. He might feel foolish telling you he loves you right now considering his actions were of the most "unloving" type. This is probably where my H is, too. After all, it wasn't that long ago he told me he didn't love me -- told our kids he didn't love me, then two days later that all changed. He knows I'm having a hard time believing anything he says, so consequently he doesn't say anything (or at least doesn't say it enough).
Last night I told my H that if he still had any feelings for the EA to get on a plane and go see her and figure out just what those feelings were. I said I don't want to wonder for the rest of my life if he's pineing away for someone else. I cannot and I won't play second fiddle to anyone and that if he had ANY doubts about his feelings he needed to explore them now. I think that really startled him. Maybe it finally hit home that I'm not playing around anymore. He said he absolutely didn't want anything to do with her and certainly wasn't going to go see her.
I would like to se the cell phone bills but if her # is on there I'd be forced to give him an ultimatum-I don't want hiom to leave again-I want him back 100%. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I could get the proof I need but not giving hima reason to walk out the door either? I need some ideas here. I know I'd be so angry if her # was on the cell bills that I'd be likely to say anything to him. Suggestions? Rachael
I feel like I'm being hit over the head with a 2 x 4 -- "don't you get it, Mattie? This person you trusted and loved has betrayed you 3 -- count 'em 3 times. Just how much abuse are you willing to take?" Even our kids tell me they'd understand if I felt I couldn't try anymore. It's not what they'd like, ideally, but even they think it's too much to bear.
) Thanks for your support and validation in my anger. Sometimes I get the feeling "anger" is a no-no in DBing.