In short they can justify anything if they want to badly enough and do so they don't have to feel they are guilty for the pain they are inlficting on everyone including them selves! My H also saw me as the big Meany and the OW as such a sweet thing that she actually had the nerve to sayshe felt bad for me!!! SO..she felt so bad she kept rigth on doing it! IT's all lies they tell each other to present themselves to each other in the best possible light. The ow showed what she was capable of when my H broke it off with her-I guess she figured she did not have to rpetend anymore so she layed the big guilt trip on him and was very nasty to him and told him never to call her again. HE was not axious to have anyting more to do with her after that outburst. My fear is that seh called him beggging fro another chance-he says she has not but I don;t beleive she would give up that easy-maybe she really did figure after over 2 yrs he really wasn't going to leave his family and wife for her and is moving on. That's my hope anyway! Rachael M.
Pat, thanks for your encouragement. I know you understand a lot of what I'm talking about. Sometimes I just need to "talk". I have a lot of stuff I need to get out and better here that with H, huh!
Andy, I've missed you. I hope things are going well with you. Andy, I know he "chose," but he did that 20 years ago. There should be no reason to choose anymore -- that's what makes me crazy. I have so many questions. He apparently doesn't have so many answers. I just hope his C will help him sort out what's happened.
Rachael, I don't know about the trust issue. I thought I had it figured out and was starting to trust again when all of the sudden it was shattered again. I have no advice in that area, except to go with your gut feeling.
Glo, thanks for posting. I think you probably nailed it as to how they can lie and deceive us -- they're "sparing us." Yeah, right. That's what my H said, as long as I didn't find out I wouldn't be hurt. Oh, brother. Talk about living in fantasy land.
Okay, short update.
Thursday night before we left for the beach H asked if I was looking forward to going. We talked a little about the ramifications of the OW living there. I told him I would never be able to go there without thinking about the A, but that it was not all consuming like in the beginning. He told me the only time he thinks about the A when we're there is when he thinks I'm thinking about it. Otherwise, he does whatever he can to NOT think about it. It just fills him with disgust and humilation.
I told him at this point I was more concerned about his feelings for the EA. To me that seemed much more significant if he was talking about a future with her. He once again told me his feelings had diminished and she was a "non-issue." I just don't think it's as easy as that.
Anyway, the weekend was great. I did not go on an OW hunt. I felt no desire to waste my time or energy on her anymore. Where last April I felt consumed by "looking" for her everywhere, this time I really couldn't have cared less. I've come to believe there was a reason for me having to confront her last April (as posted earlier); that reason no longer exists and she is out of my head once and for all.
H goes to C session tonight. I will post more later as things develop. I'm so tired right now I can't think straight.
The problem with going with your gut feeling is that when youforst find out about the A, everything is helter skelter-all in a blur and your H is saying you can turst him and your gut is saying yeah right Bubs-youjust lied to me for over 2 yrs! I don't know ANY formula for knowing the truth except how they treat you and time. You can snoop hire PI's,bug the phone, follow them and even hide in their car and still you could not be sure they were NOT finding someway to cheat on you. I think that everything happens the way it is suppose to happen-Mattie you found out what you needed to know. I think if there is something I need to know I will find out too. Maybe I don;t need to know-maybe NOTHING is happening. MAybe SOMETHING is happenig but will fade better without my interruption. I have NO idea. I just know I'm bone tired of worrying about somthing I have NO control over and I'm ready to let it go and see what happens on it's own.My gut tells me that My H and I will be together till death us do part. I am leaving the rest to God and will pray for direction and intuitiveness to ride this out. We will see what each day brings as it comes and worry about it then. I'm tired. Rachael M.
Well, Rachael, that's your answer. You're absolutely right. You have no control over what Adrian does, so stop torturing yourself. I really believe, though, that now that you know what he is capable of that you will be more "aware" of things. That's what I mean by "gut feeling". Most of us here trusted our S's so much that all of the little indications that there was a problem went unnoticed. Now, now that you are more aware you will be more intuned with your H and be able to head off any problems. Mind you, I'm not telling you to LOOK for trouble or warning signs. But, I'm sure if something is amiss you will certainly pick up on it more readily than in the past.
You have to get to the point where you believe that no matter what happens in your M, you will be okay -- you will be happy. Adrian should not be your entire life -- nor you his.
And, Rachael, it's only been 5 months since he broke it off? Geez, hon, give yourself a break. You're still really just in the beginning stages. Trust me, with time it will get better.
MATTIE! Glad to hear you had a great week end and it was good to hear you didn't feel the need to go on a OW hunt!! You are right when you said she isn't worth your time or energy!! If you feel you got closure when you confronted her then you don't need to give her another thought! It's good that you and your H were able to enjoy each other and enjoy your time together (and make some happy memories)!! That's important!! I am sure it helped your H knowing that you could have cared less about the w*%#$ living in that area. Your feeling of confidence and your attitude showed him even more what a truly teriffic lady and loving wife you are!!!! The first trip we made to the area where my H's XOW lived made me a little nervous. I wanted to confront her but I didn't want to at the same time! Then the next trip was easier and I had more confidence. By the 3rd trip I knew that I could handle anything!! I knew that if we saw her it wouldn't matter. I could face her and I could show her that she posed no threat to me or my M!! I am actually looking forward to going back again!! However,in 2 weeks we are going to Florida so she'll have to wait until another time !! In fact we are planning on going back to that area again in February to celebrate out 34th anniversary (we have found the perfect little romantic restaurant to celebrate in). I know by then I will be even mnore confident and will not care in the least if she is around or not.It's sort of weird but I feel that by my H and I going to the area where the XOW lives and we make new and happy memories together,it helps erase the horrible memories I have of her there with my H! Maybe I'm just weird !! TIME IS A HEALING THING!!!! Sounds like things are going great and moving forward for you and your H!! I am proud of you and I am so very very happy that things are getting better and better!! Your friend,Pat
It's been 5 months. yes since I found out about the OW but I feel so lost still. so unsure of MYSELF. I don't know I'll be ok if it does not work out-I love him and it would be a terrible thing. I'm not sure I'll ever be the same no matter what happens-so much innocence is lost when they do this to us. I want my Husband back the way he used to love me. It will take time for him to see the poisen that she was but he will see it. Then he will really have to learn how to forgive himself. HE realizes he mnade a BIG mistake, but I don;t think he FEELS it in full yet. WHen he does then he will understand how I feel. Lisa wrote how it felt to her on Andy's thread-about how much she loved her H and how it fel for htis to happen. It made me cry so hard. I wrote it all down and I want to read it to ADrian in C. Maybe he will get a glimpse of what it does to us. HE should know. I went through my MLC 11 yrs ago and had a short A with someone who died right after I broke up with him to go back to ADrian. ADrian was totally devasted-he could not think, work, do anything, so he knows what this feels like-still he chose to do it to me, and make us have to go through all this pain once more. It will take time just like it did with me-but Iknow the hardest thing is forgiving yourself to how badly you hurt your S-the one you thought you did not love for a time, but now realize you never really stopped loving them you just went off your rocker for some reason. SO much pain, somuch loss, but it can be restored. The difference is I never lied to him. HE lied to me for over 2 yrs. He had a long term A with this woman who was his friend who consoled him 11 yrs ago when I went throgh my ordeal. I'm sure she wanted him back then but he would not at that time. SO he feels "grateful" to her for being there when he needed her so badly. SHe was his "friend" He felt bad about breaking it off with her and hurting her. That in turn hurt me very much. HE knew he hurt everyone involved-I can only hope he does not make the same mistake again. Rachael M.
I also read what Lisa wrote about her feelings now. I feel the very same way. I've been saying it for a long time. Yes, I love my H, but it will never be the same. That is a great loss of both of us.
Last night at C session, the C gave my H a "depression quesntionaire." A score of 16 or above indicates depression. My H scored a 43!!! The C was very concerned, to put it mildly. However, he says he wants to wait a couple more weeks before sending him to a psychiatrist for medication. I don't know why the wait. H doesn't think to ask those questions!!
The C did give H the name of a couple books re depression that he wants him to read between sessions. H asked me to pick them up for him today.
Apparently they talked a little about his other "relationships." The C said he sees a pattern of unfulfillment in these relationships. Meaning, my H picked (probably unconsciously) women who could not possibly fulfill whatever it was that he was searching for. All they did was create more guilt and deepen his depression as he lost more and more of his integrity and self-respect. The C wants to explore what it was the my H was looking for and why he felt he'd find it outside of his M. Both my H and I would like to know that also.
Looking back now, my H feels he's been depressed -- to some extent -- for a very long time. About 5 years ago he was diagnosed with depression and put on medication for a while. This was due to a work-related incident. He didn't get much counseling at that time and as soon as he started feeling better he stopped the medication. He realizes now that he probably stopped too soon because ever since then he's felt he hasn't had much to look forward to in life. Nothing really excited him. I made the statement that maybe that was why he had the PA and the EA, because at least for a few moments here and there he had something to look forward to, something to "excite him."
At first he said that, yes, maybe that could be one answer. However, as he thought about it he wasn't at all sure that was the case because he said those relationships tended to make him feel worse and he kept looking for ways to break them off. He is also one of those guys who "hates to hurt." I guess he hates to hurt everyone except me!!
So, it sounds like my H's journey has started in earnest now. This is scary stuff -- for both of us.
Mattie, my H is in a similar sitch---slightly depressed for a long time, then w/ MLC and breaking off the A so depressed our c sent him for an evaluation right away.
Maybe your c wanted him to read up on depression before the consult?
The book I got was "Change your brain, change your life." It covered a lot of brain misfirings and various treatments, from meds to nutrition to behavioral changes.
Yeah, the books the C suggested have to do with healing depression without meds. I like that approach. My H's depression might be too severe for just that and may need the combination of meds, couselling, and whatever is in those books. Get all the bases covered, kinda thing.
I had kind of a light-bulb moment while driving this morning. So often in the past I've thought of my H as being selfish. He has an "I deserve" mentality. He deserved to have a certain car, buy things we didn't need -- didn't necessarily want, etc. In talking to him over the last few months, he's told me actually that he feels very undeserving of good things. He's felt unworthy all of this life. On the day we were married he thought to himself that it wouldn't last because he was not worthy of me. He was not born in this country, but became a citizen when he was 18. And, yet, deep down he does not feel he deserves the bounty he has received from our glorious country because his people in his homeland are starving.
So, what I think he's been doing all these years is fighting those feels of being not deserving by trying to telling himself (and me) how much he deserves this and that and another thing. He's had a battle going on inside him all his life, apparently.
And then being unworthy of me, seems like he set out to prove himself right on that one. Had A's with people who were unworthy, which he felt he deserved, and then he could "prove" to himself that he was right along.
I'm not sure if I'm making sense here. I hope you all can read between the lines if I'm not. I didn't take the time to really organize my thoughts, just wanted to get them down before I start work.
!! In fact we are planning on going back to that area again in February to celebrate out 34th anniversary (we have found the perfect little romantic restaurant to celebrate in). I know by then I will be even mnore confident and will not care in the least if she is around or not.It's sort of weird but I feel that by my H and I going to the area where the XOW lives and we make new and happy memories together,it helps erase the horrible memories I have of her there with my H! Maybe I'm just weird 
!! TIME IS A HEALING THING!!!! Sounds like things are going great and moving forward for you and your H!! I am proud of you and I am so very very happy that things are getting better and better!!