Hello – I have been lurking here for several months, and trying to DB in my own situation, while learning from all of yours. I am hoping to get a thread going now, as I could really use your advice and support (and hope that I can provide some support to all of you, too). Forgive me in advance if this first post is long and a bit disorganized:
I am 38, so is H, married 9 years. We have a S3 (almost 4) and a D 8 months. We previously were pretty happy (or so I thought), but we had a rough last couple of years. While trying to get pregnant with our second child, I had 2 miscarriages, and became very depressed. I was also under a lot of stress in a demanding job and became negative/complained/yelled about that a lot, and was, admittedly, pretty unpleasant to be around. I even suggested separation or divorce -- though more as a "threat" to make him see the seriousness of the situation -- I never REALLY wanted us to end our M. I felt no support whatsoever from H, and resented it, which made me more negative. I tried to talk to him about it, and he didn’t seem to care. I resented him more and more as he continued to be non-responsive to me. In retrospect, I was also being non-responsive to his needs, and my yelling and nagging was counter-productive. I did finally get and stay pregnant, and had our beautiful daughter this past February. While I was home on maternity leave, we had a series of talks about what was wrong with our M, and what each of us would like from the other. We committed to try to do what the other had asked.
I did everything he asked (have positive attitude, stop yelling and nagging, cook and do more around the house), he did nothing that I asked. After a few months of that, I was very frustrated and confronted him. He said that I had, in fact, done everything he asked, but raised some new complaints (I hadn’t lost all my baby/depression weight and was “repulsive” to him, I spent too much energy on friends, I didn’t stand up to my parents on certain issues, told him things repetitively/talked too much generally, don’t “take care” of him enough). He also admitted that he had not done anything I had asked because, “I have no energy, I have already put everything I have into this marriage.” Again, I worked to change things. A month later, he acknowledged my changes, couldn’t come up with any more complaints, but finally said that he didn’t feel any love, or have any feelings for me at all, and didn’t think he could get them back ever. Things that I said to him in anger during fights in the past really hurt him, and he cannot forgive me, even if I am no longer depressed and angry. I then asked him to read 5LL and consider Retrouvaille. He is reading 5LL, as I feel that we previously weren’t meeting each other’s needs, but so far he says that it just reinforces his opinion that things are hopeless and that he can never feel love for me again (is he reading the same book I did?). He has not responded about Retrouvaille, but I don’t’ think it will help us unless he wants it to, and he doesn’t seem to. He says he is leaning toward divorce.
I got DB and DR early on, and have been trying to apply the principles, but I can’t seem to go very long without messing up. Back in May, H rented an apartment – signed a one-year lease. However, he has probably only spent a total of 7-10 nights there since then. A few weeks ago, we went on a date – out to a nice dinner. I thought we had a really nice time. The next day, I asked him if he would be willing to do more dating, and he would not say yes or no. I got upset, and told him that I would not agree to a divorce, but that I would agree to him moving out (as I though he had planned, and he could see how he liked living alone/not being with the kids all the time, etc). He is an airline pilot, so he is not in town half the time anyway, but he would see them/take care of them while I am at work on the days he is home (my parents watch them when we are both working). I also told him I would agree to some kind of separation agreement with respect to finances since he had made a comment to the effect that he wanted to just get a divorce so he could figure out his finances, buy his own place, etc. I told him he didn’t need to D me for that. I couldn’t care less if he wants to separate our finances as it will frankly impact him more than me (though, of course, we will both take a hit). Finally, I told him, that (as I have told him all along) is that I want to work things out – thus, I won’t agree to the D, but would agree to separate/.separate finances in an attempt to compromise/give him space to think.
I haven’t cried in front of him in months, and I have lost weight (though still want to lose more). We had recently (in August) started ML again (we hadn’t since I had the baby in February till that point), but that doesn’t seem to mean anything to him emotionally. I thought he was still undecided (which I figured was good). He never responded to my three options, and I did not push him to respond. Last weekend, we were both home all weekend and had a lot of nice family time, and got along well. We also ML twice. He hugged me on his own twice (thanking me for some things that I did). Stupidly, I got my hopes up that maybe things were improving. But then he was somewhat cold to me on Monday and Tues., though now conflicts or arguing at all, he just seemed very preoccupied and non-responsive. I was out of town on business Wed, and Thurs. Our talks while I was gone were short – mostly kid-related. Yesterday, he told me that he will be spending the day and night at his apartment today (hasn’t been there since early August), and will leave for work for four days from there on Sunday. I know I shouldn’t have, but I over-reacted to this and asked him when we would talk about what he wanted to do in general. He said, “later this month.” It just upset me that, after what I thought was progress, he now wants to go to his apartment.
But, he still wants to go on another date that I planned for the week after next (going to a cool exhibit at a museum and then out for a nice dinner). I hope this means that he is still thinking about things, but I just don’t get a good feeling about the situation. I feel like maybe he has made his decision, but hasn’t worked up the courage to tell me, or he is feeling guilty about the impact that a D would have on our children. He is very committed to them, and I feel like they are the only reason he has not actually moved out yet – it is so hard for him to be away from them. I also know that he thinks my changes, while real, are too little too late, and that he’ll be happier without me. I don’t think he’ll be happy until he lets go of the anger he feels toward me. I don’t think that divorcing me will make him suddenly be happy, and it will hurt both of us and our kids, but he doesn’t see it that way – he just thinks that there is no way he will ever feel loving toward me again, so there’s no point in trying.
I don’t understand how he could have no feelings for me at all after 15 years together (9 years of marriage). But now he says he was never happy, never should have married me . . . If he was so unhappy, why in the world did he agree to have 2 kids with me? He didn’t even think he wanted kids at all when we got married (though he fell in love with each of them the moment he saw them). I see so many people here whose spouses have said similar things as my H is saying. I guess I should just back off and not say anything more about him going to his apartment, nor should I ask to talk about what he wants to do in our R.
I have seen a divorce lawyer and done research, so I am generally informed on the process and applicable laws in my state. I don’t think my husband realizes that he will have to pay more than he thinks toward ongoing expenses relating to our children. He seems to think that because I have a higher income, and would be the custodial parent, I will pay for most everything. I have told him that I would expect him to pay his pro-rata share of all ongoing expenses (which would be LESS than what my state would require by default), and he seemed surprised by that (not that he wouldn’t do it, but he honestly hadn’t thought about future expenses, just how to divide up current assets). In some ways I’d like to sit down and show him the numbers, because I know it’s going to be a lot more than he thought. Not that I want him to stay only because of money, but I would like him to consider that his standard of living will drastically decline if he goes through with this.
Bottom line, I thought I was seeing some positives, I got my expectations up (I know, I know, no expectations), and now I am feeling very low about him choosing to spend time away from us today and tonight and just have a very sinking feeling right now that he will soon decide to walk away from the M completely. Once he makes a decision about something, it’s final, so I just don’t think he’ll ever reconsider if he decides to move forward with a D. Meanwhile, I am physically and emotionally exhausted from taking care of the kids (am still nursing and pumping for the baby), trying to keep up with doing all the things he wants me to do around the house and for him, and working my still very demanding job (though with a PMA about it now!). I don’t know how much longer I can keep it up when I don’t seem to be getting any real results, and in fact, he now wants to start spending time away.
Anyway, I guess I am just hoping for some feedback and support. I will start journaling here, and hope to become part of your supportive and understanding community.
You're situation sounds a lot like mine, except my W.wants out in the worst way, and I don't. You've come to a good place for feedback. There are a lot of people in our boat(s) and they offer a lot of great advice, especially at the lowest points in this process. be patient, people will respond to you.
WOW,,, you sound like me and your hubby sounds like mine,, they honestly believe they are the ONLY ones that work hard at the"M". I too went into what I call my cave and did my best but became invisible and the more he was unresponsive the quieter I became.
Prove gim wrong work on you and be beautiful,,, and own who you are and do not let him dictate how you feel,, I still struggle with this. It is truly hard to hold onto yourself when you love them sooo much,, it is hard not to let what the do affect you but it can be done,, it just takes lot of hard work on your part. I will keep reading your sitch and help you when I can.
have a wonderful honey,, you deserve it. God bless...
Thanks for the responses FLTC and Ali -- I know it will take a while to get a thread going. I need to respond on some other threads, too, though I don't feel like I have much to give as far as advice since nothing I am doing seems to be making much difference!
Journaling/Venting: Am home with the kids today. H is out of town till Wednesday evening. He was at his apartment all day and spent the night there yesterday, and did not even call the kids to say goodnight (he normally calls every night if he is out of town, so there's no reason he couldn't have called last night). I have a bad head cold, and am not getting as much done as I should (have tons of laundry, plus I brought some work home that I really should do tonight). Lately, I am actually sort of relieved when H is not here. He doesn't help much with the kids/house anyway when we are both home, so it's not any harder without him, and when he's not here, I don't have to work so hard to keep up the DBing around him/do the things that he has said he wants me to do/work on. It's sort of like I have a little reprieve from having to try so hard all of the time when he's not here. When the phone rings, and I see it's him, it gets my blood pressure up since I never know how the conversation will go, and I hate it so much when he takes a flat or negative tone with me. When he calls at home, I always answer, as I know he wants to talk to the kids, and I don't want to deprive him of that (if I can, I let my son answer). If he calls at work, I often just let it go through to voicemail (though often he then won't leave a message), and then call him back when I am in an "up" moment -- I can always blame being too busy at work if he wonders why he can't reach me.
Ok, here's the vent: Thursday, I had gotten up at 4:00 a.m. to prepare for a meeting (was out of town), worked all day, then was supposed to get a 6:25 pm flight home. Because President Bush was in St. Louis, then Chicago, thus messing up the airports in both places (and I was flying from St. Louis to Chicago!), my flight was delayed 3 HOURS, and I didn't get home till midnight (I live an hour from the airport). He was up when I got home, but went to bed soon afterwards (but not before showing me 2 bottles of wine he bought because, "we liked these when he had them last week"). Then was up till 2:00 a.m. washing baby bottles, dishes, getting the kids' stuff ready for the next day. Got up at 5:00 to start my day. So, I got a total of 7 hours of sleep in 2 nights. Friday afternoon, we are driving to his grandma's house for dinner so she can see the kids (which I arranged since he never calls his grandma, then wonders why she seems to like me more than him), and I cam dozing off in the car while he drives. He says, incredulously/VERY annoyed (don't know why this would annoy him), "are you falling asleep?!" Well, yes, I am. I am exhausted and I am getting sick, but since you haven't bothered to ask me how I've been these last few days, I guess you wouldn't know that (no, I didn't say that - just said, "yeah, I haven't gotten much sleep the last 2 nights). It seems like no matter what I do, it annoys him, so maybe I need to start going a bit dim to the extent I can with the kids. So far, I have been trying to GAL, PMA, do 180s, but haven't really tried to withdraw/back off on contact. I think it's time. Now, I just have to figure out how to walk the line without cutting him out of anything regarding the kids. Obvoiusly, I will tell him what he needs to know about them, but what about funny stories about what one or the other of them did today -- I would normally share those, and we would laugh about them. Should I not even do that - just tell him whatever is important for him to know and then end the conversation? I guess I will have to think a little about how to implement this. Tonight if he calls, I will let S4 answer and talk wiht him, and will only talk with him if he asks S4. I don't have anything pressing to discuss with him right now anyway.
We are all going thru this together here. We will definitely be here to support you and encourage you. I will tell you this. Don't be too hard on yourself. You sound like an incredible woman who is working her @ss off to hold it all together with two small children. Make sure you do nice things for yourself and take care of YOU. Your H sounds a lot like mine in that my H also was not very understanding towards me after our D7 was born and also was unwilling to put any energy into improving our M. It's not fair that our spouses have chosen to take off when things got rough and yet thats the hand we've been dealt. It sounds like you're not getting a lot of support from your H and you've got a lot on your plate. Make sure you have a good support system and that you are not forgeting to take time for yourself. Maybe ask your H to watch the kids one night while you go out and do something fun with a friend. Keep your chin up and stay strong.
Shelly
Me: 34
H: 37
1 child
Married 10 yrs (together 13)
Bomb: Aug 25th "I'm not in love w/ you anymore"
H walked out: Aug 30th
I have an infinite amount of time to divorce my husband. I can do it today and everyday until I die. But I only have a short time to save my marriage. I think I'll try that first. If I fail....there's still time for everything else."
someone posted this on my thread when my PMA was very low,, I looked for it and I thought it would help.. I used to read it daily. God bless...
Dear Lemon, Having a new little one and another too is a busy and tiring time of life for anyone. I agree that it sounds like a good time to seek support from your friends and family. Who has been supportive of you in the past?
SusieR
Divorce Busting Coach
To schedule an appointment with Susie, please give us a call at 800-664-2435 or 303-444-7004.
Ali – That quote is so true! In fact, I have tried to tell H exactly that – he could D me at ANY time, why not try to work on things first, now that we have finally made some progress (i.e. recognizing the problems, my trying to make positive changes). But, he just keeps saying it’s too late, he doesn’t have any feelings left . . . Ugh. Will stop by your thread later, as I only have a few minutes to post right now.
SusieR – I am feeling pretty overwhelmed right now, and being sick these last few days hasn’t helped. So far, I have only let 2 people know about my situation: my mom and one of my best girlfriends. My mom lives close by and is very supportive practically and pro-marriage (although she’s mad at the way H is treating me right now), but she doesn’t have any advice other that to pray. I am praying, but I need some practical advice, too My friend is in Boston (I am in Chicago) has been supportive from an emotional/sounding board perspective. She is pretty mad, too, but says that she’d be doing the same thing I am if she was in my position (fighting to keep the M). I am struggling with telling anyone at work about what’s going on – I don’t really want to, but am afraid that the strain may begin to impact my work, and I don’t need to mess up my career on top of everything else! Interestingly, H says that he hasn't talked to ANYONE about all this, as he wants to handle it himself. He totally rejects the suggestion of any kind of counseling. I guess I don't really even want him to talk to his friends as they are almost all divorced, and 2 are happily (as far as I know) remarried. Thanks for checking my thread. I have been thinking about scheduling a telephone consult, but just need to find the time when I can do it privately!
Journaling: Spoke very briefly with H last night. He called and I let S answer, but then S told me to talk to him, and I didn’t want to say, “no, I don’t want to talk to Daddy” to my S. H had nothing really to say. I asked him if he was ok, and he said, “just tired.” I said I was sorry and that I would let him go so he could get some sleep. He told me that some people down the hall from him at his apartment were having a loud party on Saturday night, so he couldn’t sleep well at all. Apparently the party was still going when he got up at 2:30 am. To get ready to leave for work. I told him I was sorry about that, but I’m really not. He could’ve gotten a perfectly nice night’s sleep at our house (I guarantee our baby is not anywhere near as loud as a party)(no, she’s not sleeping through the night yet – she usually wakes up around 2:00 or 3:00, and then ends up in bed with me) had he chosen to stay with us. Perhaps he’ll be in a better mood when we talk tonight.
I ordered a book on Amazon today called something like, “Should I Stay or Go, How Controlled Separation Can Save Your Marriage.” I have read DR, DB and 5LL – anyone read this book I just ordered or have any other recommendations for me? Must do some work now – have a lot to do today and want to go home at a reasonable hour so I can rest as my head cold is still pretty bad.
Forgot to say thanks, Shelly, for your response earlier. I started reading your thread, and I am amazed at how strong you are/have been.
Journaling: Am on the train on my way home after a later day at work then I would have preferred (discovered I can read and post to this site pretty easily from my Blackberry). I TM'd H to let him know I was later than usual, so he could call my parents' house if he wants to say goodnite to S3 before it gets too late. If he does that, I won't talk to him tonight at all. We'll see. I was feeling very angry with H today - while I certainly did a lot wrong over the last few years, he has, too, and it is so unfair that he blames everything on me. I know I am supposed to focus on changing myself, but it's still annoying. Also, he says so many inconsistent things - how do I know what the truth is? Back in January of this year when he thought he was having a heart attack (turned out to be acid reflux, which I totally called), he told me that if anything happened to me, he wanted me to know that he loved me. That was the last time he said ILY. Now he has recently told me that he hasn't loved me in years. So, was he lying when he said it in January? I feel like he goes out of his way to hurt/punish me for the pain that I have caused him, but refuses to acknowledge that he hurt me, too. One day, he'll say that by not leaving yet, he is trying, the next day he says he is only staying for the kids and there is no point in trying since he is sure he will never have feelings for me again.
I am having the most problem with GAL. I don't really have any time to GAL. I get no sleep as it is. I have bought myself a few new (smaller size) pieces of clothing, and have tried to spruce up my appearance with a new haircut, but I don't really have time to go do new hobbies/go out with friends. I think that improving my appearance will make him take notice, though, so I'll continue with the weight loss. It is slow, though, as I am still nursing the baby, so I can't crash diet or even cut back overall calories too much, I am just trying to eat healthy/make every calorie I do eat count. I have promised myself a spa day and some new clothes when I make my goal (20 pounds to go; I have lost 40 - all of my pregnancy weight -so far). Well, I am almost home, so will quit the rambling for now.
I have been reading on others' threads, but feel kind of useless as I don't seem to have anything helpful to say/post. Hopefully that will change as time goes on.
I have been reading on others' threads, but feel kind of useless as I don't seem to have anything helpful to say/post. Hopefully that will change as time goes on.
Please do not feel this way,, we are all here for one another and do not be soooo hard on yourself! I still learn soooo much just from reading what others post,, this board is a blessing to all of us. God bless...
It is truly hard to hold onto yourself when you love them sooo much,, it is hard not to let what the do affect you but it can be done,, it just takes lot of hard work on your part. 
