"Officially" piecing... now the real work begins..

[DonH]

I don't want to hijack the thread here so I'll try to keep it short at least. I agree with most everything you are saying. I don't have a problem trusting me. I know that I have changed things and I know I can trust myself not to make the same bad mistakes. The only problem is, that I'm only 50% of the R. I have to do my 100% and so does my S. It is the S that I cannot trust. In fact, even after I made all of the changes and WAW aknowledged all of the changes, you still see where I - and many others here end up. We can only controll our selves. We cannot control our S. Therefore we can only trust ouselves and it is much harder to trust S - espeically based on all of have learned not only about my WAW but about all of the others here.

[runningoutoftime]

Hi Don,

Don't worry about hijacking the thread. You've brought up some important points. We really can't depend on other people. We can hope for it, but we can't expect it. The thing I've learned from this whole experience is I can only depend on me. I apprecate the positive things that others offer or provide, but when it gets down to it relationships are fragile and I'm thankful for friendship and love when I have them. But things always do change. Life is flux.

I don't think I would have ever regretted DBing during my divorce. I don't think acting any other way would have made me any happier. Or would it? I DBed with the idea the marriage was definitely over, but I'd leave the door open until the end and just work on healing and building myself up into a better person. A close friend of mine went into a divorce exactly like mine a month after me (WAS in MLC, non-serious affair, etc...). She didn't DB. In fact I'd call her an anti-DBer! I don't think she felt any better. If anything she does things which seem emotionally harmful. She continuously jumps into unhealthy relationships, sleeps around, has horrible fights with her soon-to-be-ex-husband, and continues to ride the rollar coaster.

Maybe this is a difference in individuals, DBing, whatever, but I think emotionally she has had a much more difficult time. Although maybe it would have been just as difficult for her if she DBed. Some people do recover more quickly than others. Also, maybe this differs depending on how one DBs. For me it gave me some structure to follow. I looked at it as a game plan for healing, forgiving and learning to move on if everything were truly over (which is definitely looked like!). On the other hand, holding even a tiny bit of hope for reconciliation was emotionally hard at times. Would it have been just as hard if I had completely closed and bolted that door? I don't know. Sometimes one does take a chance just in case they do become part of that smaller statistic.

[Delil@h]

The thing I've learned from this whole experience is I can only depend on me.

Me too...
And it feels soooooooooooooooooooo much better.

On the other hand, holding even a tiny bit of hope for reconciliation was emotionally hard at times. Would it have been just as hard if I had completely closed and bolted that door?

I often wondered @ this very thing,, BUT had I closed the door to free myself from the pain ( which sometimes was even tangible it felt like I was in the depths of H*LL),,,, I may not have had the oppurtunity to learn sooo much grow soooo much and love soooooo much .

I have grown so much and HOPE to never ever take my "M" or my "H" for granted ever again. And most of all have my Family back together sharing good times. To me it was worth all the pain,, would I do it again,, I DUNNO?

I hope never .........and that is the beauty of following this book and the principles you realize what a beautiful gift you have been given when you are Married and can live in love and respect and integrity.,and you continue to renew yourself and "work " on you so that your " M " will be better than it ever was,, and you remember the pain and live in the beauty of the day you have been given and keep working hard.
God bless...

[runningoutoftime]

Okay.... I've changed and in some ways it's good and in other ways it's bad. Interestingly I've adopted and morphed into some of what I think attracted husband to OW. It's also what pulled him back into the marriage, but now I'm finding he might not be so pleased with it.... or????

Some of this really is me. I actually grew up this way. But in other ways I grew beyond it. The divorce sort of pulled me back in time. But I've also noticed this with others. A WAS's MLC throws the LBS into their own MLC.

I know I'm probably not making sense. I'll just describe what happened and maybe others can share their thoughts on this. I'm sure I deserve some bashing here. It's not the healthiest thing. Maybe my marriage can't be the healthiest???

During the divorce I went out a lot with single and divorcing friends. Even through I didn't date or get involved with anyone, I had a great time meeting lots of women and men, flirting, dancing, drinking, and just having fun. My husband thinks I should continue going out with my friends because he believes it makes me happier. I do enjoy seeing them and talking with them.

So last night I met two girlfriends and went out for a drink. I left at 6 p.m. and came home at maybe 9 p.m. Although I only had 1.5 drinks I was a bit toasted. I hate the taste of wine or beer, and love chocolate, so I got a chocolate martini (and then a girlfriend and I split an appletini). In addition, I only weight about 110 so strong drinks tend to make a bit of impact.

Well, even throuh I was loving towards my husband he was not pleased this morning. He said we need to talk. He said he doesn't like the idea of me coming back drunk.

Hummmm this didn't seem to bother him when we were divorced... he seemed to like it. Also, that's what he liked about the OW. She was a hard-core sorority party girl. He liked that she hung out with the group and drank. He was tired of being married to a dull "mom" who never drank and whose idea of socializing considered of luncheons with other married moms.

Another thing, a little maritial history here.... my husband in the past always liked to meet his friends (both single and married guys) and go out for drinks. However, he would stay out quite late. He used to do this about once a month, or once every two months. Because I had young kids and all my friends were married I'd stay home with the children and never go out. Even through I didn't complain about this, it did bother me. I knew they went to bars and I'm sure there were times he talked to other women (also, he hasn't worn a wedding ring in years so that used to bother me too). Whenever I mentioned this situation bothering me, he'd tell me I was too controlling and trying to keep him from his friends (of course, I would fully approve luncheons with his friends, poker, sports events, golf etc.... I just didn't like the late night drinking stuff). For many years I felt like I was my husband's mother.

Anyhow, now I'm in this weird place. I don't at all mind him going out. Now the kids are older (the oldest can babysit) and I have single friends too so I can go out as well.

Quite honestly, this whole thing doesn't seem healthy to me. Sure I have fun, yes I can trust myself, but is this really a good thing to be doing? Also, now that I'm okay with letting my husband do what he wants it seems ironic that he's not pleased.

Maybe there's something I'm missing? Maybe it's the level of inebriation bothering him? I should probably get more clarification.

[Delil@h]

I find it interesting too, that my H "OW" was a party girl got a tattoo with his name on her and he will not "let me" get one they are not classy and I am he says.I do not get it?
And actually I wish I knew none of this but he gave me way too much info many times and I did not even ask...
Why your H doesnt like you to come home tipsy I dunno, But a funny thing like that happened to me shortly before reconciliation , he got upset @ a micro mini I was wearing one day and weeks before he did not even care that I had it on,,, maybe once they chooose to recommit they have different expactations,, we do so they must ? I DUNNO just my 2 cents.
God bless... Ali

[cat03]

well, I dont' think you should top going out, I wonder how toasted you were or if he thought you had too much of a good time (9pm is VERY sensible btw), he should elaborate. And since you are tre petite, maybe ease up on the strong drinks. As for H liking that because of ow, well, he obviously doesnt like ow anymore and is w/you, so he maybe he now sees that it isn't that great to have someone who goes out to party like the skunk ow, (NOT that you did, but you get my drift).

I think it is very healthy you still go out, as oong as you aren't out every night and coming home drunk each time I see nothing wrong w/it. Do you guys go together to bars?

[runningoutoftime]

No, so far I don't drink a great deal (definitely not nightly!), and I'm pretty good at limiting myself to one drink when I go out... but sometimes those bartenders make them strong!!!!!

I'll probably continue to go out, but I think for a healthy marriage that should be limited. One problem I believe in my marriage is my husband's father used to go out with friends sometimes and his wife (now ex-wife after 32 years) would stay home with the kids (she didn't drink and frowned on his drinking). I think it was absolutely too much partying (even through he was an extremely successful person... VP of a major international banking institution prior to retirement), and he also had affairs on his wife. So for my husband this must seem normal while I didn't grow up in this type of environement. My family basically hung out together. Even when my parents were married my dad didn't stay out late with his buddies on weekends.

Here's where I think the problem is. Drinking and being out where people meet is risky. It provides opportunities and when one is drunk they are more likely to disregard consequences. I think my husband's affair was fueled by that whole scene, and now that I've been observing it and part of it I can understand how easy it can happen.

By the way, I've been absolutely horrible since last night. Did a bit of snooping (I know you guys warn me not to! I definitely need a big kick in the butt!!!) and then out of jealousy did some bad things. I don't even want to write about this because I'm so embarrassed. What I did was really stupid and I didn't listen to you guys. I could of used you ladies at my house, holding my arms and keeping me away from the phones!!!

I like many things about myself, but gosh this is where I am massively flawed. I need to go meditate or take some zanex!!!! Here I think I'm so strong and "together" but I'm finding I have plenty of struggles sometimes too.

[twist_of_fate]

I almost forgot our talk about drinking. It's me > ^. . ^ < had to change my name because H asked me out of the blue "you havent' seen my black diary have you?" and he NEVER has asked for it all these months, he's been here.

I fell out of the DB wagon smack on the head, I screwed up so bad it isnt' even funny, if you want to look at a bad example of DBing check believing_iseah's post on the infidelity forum
I won't have my own thread for a while.

I"ve never drunk nor goten drunk in my whole life, for a million reasons, last night in a mix of depression and PMS hormones I gulped down half a bottle of wine and sent an scathing TM to my H, the shock he's going to get when he opens it this afternoon Lets just say it had the words f'king, whore and piece of a$$, if anyone would've had to have 2 people holding my arms it should've been me

PLEAASSE, go to the infidelity forum and read 121's thread STOP LBS!! we both need a whopping gal, we're just digging our own M graves w/our behavior and inability to go past our anger.

I had the other's # (that's what I'll call H's exOP from now on, in an efford to neutralize her in my brain) and a copy of a check she gave H, the things I could've done, even this morn I thought "wouldn' it be funny if I give some kids a 20 and a cartoon full of eggs and show them the other's home?"
Then I realized how juvenile and petty I was being. No one put a gun to those women's head Running, our Hs went there voluntarily, so we need to lift the focus OFF them.

You aren't going to do more dumb stuff anymore do you hear me???? Because you are ABOVE and are better than that other one.

One things I learned when reading about anxiety disorders is that we give our feelings too much power, the fact that we are feeling a certain way doens't mean the feeling is true nor right, feelings play tricks on us and we must run them by the brain firts, kwim?

We can do better than this, we have to be stronger.

[runningoutoftime]

Thanks for sharing that, I am so sorry to hear about your sitch. I would probably warn my husband and apologize prior to having him find a message like that. I'd just admit that I completely freaked out.

After I finish this post I'm going to look up the ones you've mentioned. I think I need to spend some time on the infidelity board. Fortunately, I'm not ranting at my husband, but my problem is anger at OW and retaliating by sharing the details of their affair with her husband.

I'm really struggling with this. The other night I came acoss some text messages from around the time my husband filed for divorce. There was one from her where she said she missed him and called him by a different name. He responded back saying "so and so" missed her too. I immediately concluded this name must refer to a part of his anatomy and I went into PO mode, texted her that "so and so" missed his whore, and then called her husband's work number and left a message that he needs to ask his wife who "so and so" is and why she misses him.

Even thought I felt bad I probably didn't feel as bad as I should because I have this huge desire to call her husband and explain further. Even through I called him months back and said I thought they had an affair and I sent him the cell phone records. They both had explainations and lies to cover up the situation. (I think she also portrayed me as a nut and that bothers me... although this whole thing does tend to make one really nutty!). Part of me really wants to call and explain that they did absolutely have an affair, and it got physical (it wasn't just a support friendship thing, it was more).

I've been thinking about this and I wonder if I would be less angry with her if she had expressed embarassment or guilt and had apologized. When I did talk with her (which was quite awhile ago) she just denied everything and expressed anger at me for "bothering her." She also said her husband was REALLY MAD at me and he didn't want me to call them again. Although, honestly, he seemed really nice on the phone. I just shared with him what I knew as a fact and said I strongly believed they had an affair based on the evidence. He didn't seem angry when I spoke with him. I think she was probably freaked about it and just was trying to get me to stop.

Interesting about the anxiety disorders. I can relate to that with that. Well, time to spend to flip over to the infidelity board. I need a life raft.

[twist_of_fate]

ok, so you are not exactly attacking your H but you are still seeping poison into your M by keeping fresh and rehashing A related info.

It's on him (op's H) if he doesn't believe you, you truly are looking like a nut sending him info here and there, and each time you loose credibility and sinking lower. Leave them alone, both of them, does your H know you have those messages?, would he think this is healthy? won't he feel you still want to throw the A on his face?

I know it seems normal to you and it doesn't feel wrong while you are doing it, because you've rationalize it as: a)you are informing that poor man the woman is a slut b) she has it coming. In the process you are destroying yourself and turning into this vengeful woman who just wont' let go.

I go to the infidelity forum to keep myself in check, do yourself and your H a favor and get rid of ANYthing A related, to avoid temptation and because you are in a NEW and HEALTHY R.