I've just purchased your book, The Divorce Remedy. I've only read the chapter on Infidelity, since that is of special interest to me. I've also gotten your other two books, Divorce Busting and Fire Your Shrink from the library.
To get the most benefit from your books, should I read Divorce Busting before I read The Divorce Remedy? Considering all three books is there any order in which I should read them? Thanks.
Update: First, thank you Michelle, for the words of encouragement, not just to me , but to all of us here. My response to ex's email: After much thought, decided to use the "cheerleader" approach mentioned in your book. I thanked him for lunch and commented the food and conversation was great, and that it was also nice talking about other subjects besides the kids, eventhough that was to be the main focus of our lunch. I did comment that I asked my dance instructor to include some fast dancing in my lesson that I had after lunch, to help wear off the yummy dessert we shared. I then closed email without any mention of comment he made about OW and I didn't comment about any future get togethers. There was a total of 4 sentences and I made it as upbeat and light as I could. My goal for the weekend is to really look back since the divorce, and see what behaviors I have been displaying that have not helped my cause, and then come up with what I need to change, and how I'm going to implement the changes.
I have read the section on affairs. I have come to the conclusion the Om is giving my wife two things in emotional support area. 1. He is listening to her and not solving her problems. I have started this when we are together. 2. He is doing things with her which is giving her his time. Well with going dark this is difficult to do.
Question: Do I continue to ask her to lunch every other week to talk about the boys and keep it light. or is this persueing. Do I let her contact me only. I am not sure which direction to go. Or do I just let this A thing run it's course?
I suspect as she moves from her friends house into her own I will hear more from her. What do you think? I know she is watching me I think to see if I have another woman. I don't understand that, and I don't and will not for a long time after any ending of this.
Thanks for your prompt reply. You asked a couple of questions that I can answer.
1. New therapist. She is open to this. In fact, as I was getting some new therapist recommendations from a counseler that works at my company's EAP program, he recommended that I read your book, and he gave me some helpful tips on working with my wife at this stage (Dont push things too fast, dont say I love you, dont do too much talk about the relationsip, don't excessively focus on what happened and how we hurt each other, but on what does work, etc.) I've phone interviewed a few therapists that he suggested but no one has appealed to me so far. Some suggested that until my W is ready to work on the marriage, marital counseling wasn't really going to be very effective. Some suggested that at this stage it might be best not to change and have to go through all the preliminary explanations again, rehashing all the bad stuff. I plan on focusing on our current therapists approach the next couple of sessions, now that I know what to look for, and go from there.
2. As far as books, I agree that giving my W "The Divorce Remedy" would not work right now..its premise is just too opposite her current point of view. However, what do you think about me giving her a copy of pp 49-65 of Chapter Two of "The Marriage Remedy"? This includes the Relationship Quiz and the Marriage Map. I would plan on purging the copy of the book and chapter title etc, so that she doesn't immediately reject it based on that, and present it to her as an interesting alternative perspective on our situation, for her to consider if she so chooses. No pressure, just present it as something I found mildly interesting. If it triggers anything positive, great, and if not then I wouldn't think any harm would be done. But, before I do this, I would want your perspective. I found that chapter to very enlightening to me, and it helped to know that it is very possible (not a certainty but a definite possibility)that most of what has happened has been a very predictable outcome of a marriage that was not made a high priority and nurtured, rather than an inevitible outcome of two people with differences, who became more different. Of course, it agreed with my particular bias, so no telling how it will affect my W, given her current bias.
Also, I have a telephone consultation with Arnold in a week, so I really look forward to some more detailed advice.
Michele, I also wanted to thank you for your time and effort responding to all of us.
I'm still on step 5. I'm unclear as how to interpret last night. After a good dinner W initiated OR talk. I couldn't back away, she asked to sell the house. Said she wants an apartment and to experience single life. Says again that she sees all of my positive changes and they're great but feels guilty because she's not being a good wife. I told her it was too soon (15 days) to judge our current situation (separated, friends, under the same roof). I asked her to wait, we compromised on waiting until Oct. 15 before re-evaluating, but she seemed insincere.
I decided later I would give her the separation NOW because she seems to believe it has to happen. I told her I would leave this weekend and I have to move-on as if it's over. I can't do this again in a year if she doesn't come back. Now she says we should stick to our plan (10/15) and we're not to "that point" yet (separating and selling the house). I said if she doesn't believe her feelings can change then we ARE there. She insisted we aren't and said she believes that her feelings can change. She also talked about her fears "if we stayed together" (as if it's now an option). I told her evaluating her feelings daily will only remind her that she doesn't love me right now and frustrate her more. I asked her to focus on herself and being happy (she's having an identity crisis).
Every time I try and pull away and give her what she's asking she pulls me back. I think one goal is slowly being attained. It seems she's starting to think our marriage is salvageable, but seems frustrated that while other changes in OR have occurred her feelings have not.
What does this sound like to you? It feels like a backslide, but also sounds like a step forward. How should I approach this if she's impatient and actively waiting for a change to happen? Is the 10/15 deadline a bad idea? It seemed like the only way to passify her impatience. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by reachingout (edited 09-08-2001).]
Hi all, Here are some more reactions and responses from me. They are not necessarily in order of your posts. Reachingout,
Your post is a great illustration of what I write about- that relationships are like see saws, the more one person does of something, the less the other one does. When you become optimistic- "Let's wait, it's too early to judge our relationship,"- she becomes pessimistic. When you switch gears, she becomes more optimistic. There's no mystery here at all and you, my friend, handled things with DB grace. Good for you.
Now, the trick is for you to remain interested, be the person she wants you to be, but when you discuss things, you should seem reticent to acknowledge improvements. In regards to the deadline, you can tell her you're not sure what you both should do. You need some time to think about it. Then, continue to spend time together when you can and avoid OR talks, be upbeat, the usual. If she comments about something positive, compliments you, you can tell her that it's nice that she recognizes the positive things, but you aren't convinced that she's going to continue to wear the more positive lenses. So thank her, but add on something about your wondering if the "new her" is going to last. Do you see what I mean here.
Don't get hung up in the specifics, just get the main idea. You have to be there DBing in your behavior, but give her reason to wonder if you're thinking about backing off. It seems to make her really nervous if she thinks about losing you. So you have to walk the fine line between being emotionally available but not allowing her to take you for granted. That's the way to proceed.
Go slowly. You definitely took a step forward, not backward. She needs to worry about losing you. Michele
Dear jtolic, Your situation is very tough and I hope you have family around to support you. Let him read the Divorce Remedy if he is willing. Don't pressure him to come back. Go to counseling together to work on your "parenting issues." Hopefully, he will realize that the grass isn't greener and that he misses your family. YOu need to be patient and yes, LRT is a good idea. Michele
Username, You ask whether you should do LRT or tough love. IT depends on 2 things- 1- which one appeals to you more 2- which would be more out of character for you. Whichever is more different is the one you should do. Have you ever set firm boundaries with her before, even on other subjects? If so, don't do tough love. IF she perceives you as controlling, don't do tough love. If she sees you as dependent and needing her, tough love might work. But LRT might work if she expects you to track her down and pursue her. You decide.
I don't neceesarily agree with your therapist's view that since she's got the upper hand, you have to be strong. When one person wants out, whether we like it or not, they do have a certain power. But you get to choose how you respond. Doing the LRT isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of strength and being mindful of how your actions trigger responses in others.
So in the end, you're the expert. You decide. Michele
Distressed, It may be time for you to test the waters a little and when you're together having a good time, do something romantic and see how he responds. If it is a positive response, keep going, if he balks, back off quickly. Don't have an OR, just do something out of the ordinary and see what happens. Michele
DB713 Thanks for your kind feedback! I appreciate it a lot. ******************************
Lee, Look, my friend, you are doing absolutely great. This is really tough. Since you read the chapter on infidelity, I know you read about the importance of being patient. You are doing fantastically as to how you're approaching your marriage and the best advice I have for you right now is to hang in there. If your physical relationship is good right now, this is a strong connection. If giving him space is working, keep giving him space. Don't talk to friends and relatives who don't understand your patience. Pride gets in the way too often. Read what I wrote about the Divorce Trap in chapter one again if you start doubting your plan.
There might come a time in the future when you'll need to adjust your plan, but not now.
