Ditto what Ellie said. I certainly don't want to encourage you to fight for the R -- I think you *really* need to let go of it, at least for now, and until and unless something changes radically.
Your holding on to it is clouding your judgment about this business matter. You have rights as a SAHM who was been raising SO's children. He cannot simply kick you to the curb. IF you are not hurting your legal position at all in terms of what you get out of the house and what you get for yourself and kids in terms of support by moving out, then I'd suggest you hightail it out of there.
Right now, you aren't making any rational decisions businesswise. How do I know this? Because you can't. You don't know the facts. So, you can't make rational business decisions based on those facts.
Get the facts, then decide. You can't weigh the pros and cons of protecting SO (which is really inappropriate for you to try to do at this point in any case) against protecting the interests of your own children until you understand what you may be costing them.
Most lawyers will do a free consult on this sort of thing. Have you tried setting something like this up? Have you called women's centers in your area? They likely can direct you to a lawyer who works with women pro bono or on a sliding scale.
Take some ownership here and get empowered -- don't just let this stuff happen to you.
This doesn't mean you have to stay in the house, or that you have to hold on to your R (please don't). But you need to make sure that the conditions under which you move out make sense for you and your kids. Without getting the info you need, you can't know whether they do or not.
You have got to quit avoiding this stuff because you are afraid to let go. It really is OK to let go and focus on securing your own future. He isn't going to do that for you. It doesn't mean that you are shallow or unloving if you can let go. It doesn't mean that you never loved each other. It doesn't mean that you are a bad person.
You are a good person, you loved SO, you tried your best, it is best for everyone if you can quit trying to stay tied to him through kindnesses and caretaking of HIM rather than putting yourself and kids first.
Not much to say. Slowly packing things. This is excruciating. I wish I could simply wave a wand and disappear. Knowing that I'm not going anywhere for 3 weeks yet makes it all so hurtful. Knowing I'm going - yet still so far away. Plus, D7's b-day is in 2 weeks, so, gotta smile pretty around family & friends. Then, 3 weeks later is D1's 2nd birthday. I think I'm having that party at "MY" place.
The outpouring I'm receiving from HIS family has me surprised. I feel bad (for him) that they are all taking my side. None of them want to have anything to do with him. His sister, who I rarely talk to (mostly because of circumstance & lack of opportunity, not because we don't get along or anything) emailed me and said she would take all 3 kids the weekend I move. Ummm - shocked me. She's never had ANY of them, let alone offer to take all 3. LOL
I'm planning to move the weekend of Oct 7-8th. I've planned it this way because he has to work. I DON'T WANT HIM AROUND. And told him so. He's insisting that he wants to help - that this should be "us" doing it and I shouldn't involve anyone else. WTF? I said no. Told him I planned on doing it while he was working - it would just be easier emotionally on all of us. My sister & some friends will help me. Should be easy enough - I'm going to try and have most everything down in the basement ready for the moving truck. Back it in, load it up in one shot, and drive away. End of this story. Beginning of a new one.
I'm planning on going to the courthouse Tuesday with a friend to file for custody and get the ball rolling on the attorney. I've waited for 2 reasons (A) kids were sick this week and (B) I want another set of ears with me so I don't miss anything. My friend can only go on Tuesday, so that's when it will have to be.
The other day I also got to overhear XSO on the phone with OW. Up until this point, I had never borne witness to any of their interactions. Yeah, I guess you could say I eavesdropped - although it didn't start out intentional. I was in the bathroom, heard him talking, then started listening. Then, when I realized who he was talking to, I couldn't leave the bathroom without being found out. Besides, I was curious.
I was shocked at what I was hearing. He was very rude, very sarcastic, very demeaning. Not how I would have expected him to be talking to her. As a matter of fact, he swore at her a few times - really nasty - words he's rarely, if ever, used towards me. I thought to myself, jeez, he's treating her worse than me. I found it interesting. That and they were arguing over "ME". LOL Gave me a little thrill in a demented sort of way. Like "Hah, I'm moving out and it's STILL not good enough." Makes me shake my head because I just don't get it. Especially when I think back to when he moved out into his own place and "they" lasted all of 2.5 months before he threw her out of his apartment.
Yesterday he told me that he wants to make time to talk with me this weekend. I asked what about? He said he wants to talk to me about how he feels about me moving out and "all this sh!t going on". I said "Why not now?" Kids were at school, baby was napping, we had uninterrupted time. He said because he's not sure of everything he wants & needs to say yet. Whatever. Don't know when he expects to talk - he's working all weekend and I may go to my sisters for the night. Shrug.
I'm thinking this "talk" has something to do with my vehemence that we have no contact once I'm gone, except for the exchange of kids. He's asked certain things that seem like he wants to continue in my life, same as now. I said no. Things like:
"Who's going to plow my driveway?" I'll shovel it, thank you. It's only big enough for one vehicle.
"Who's going to bring you lunch & cigarettes?" Um, I know my way to the deli.
"How are you going to wake up every morning?" He's been calling here, to make sure I'm up, even though I get up using an alarm clock!
"Won't we eat dinner together?" (On nights he doesn't have to work.) Uh, don't think so.
Stupid things ~ to me, anyway. Things that make it seem like he wants to hang on in some ways. But I'm not doing it. He acts like I'm going to "need" him there all the time or something. I don't get it.
That's the thing, isn't it, NM? We sometimes think that our S's and SO's are hurting us, but they aren't happy at all. Their actions are tearing themselves up inside.
Stick to the no contact thing -- I know that my W doesn't "get it" either. She thinks that we are still going to be "best friends" or that I'm basically going to be her "brother" or something -- no comprehension of what is really going on.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
This is the point where we all realize that while DB is great for some people (maybe me, who knows) in terms of saving a marraige/relationship, it's mostly great for saving ourselves FROM ourselves and giving us the best chance at happiness no matter what happens in our R's.
You are at that point where you tried all that DB can offer you in terms of hand's on marriage saving and now it's time to just walk away. I am NOT saying it's over but in many cases, as I have said before, we see that the only real progress is made once the LBS stops trying to make progress. As usual, I know that's not your concern, nor is making a difference in your R with STBXSO a motivating factor but the reality is that you are already seeing your decisions having an effect on him. They likely will continue to have an effect but you know now that you have to continue down this path you've charted for yourself because too many times he's pulled close to you as you pull away, only to run again when you warm up to him.
I still hope that things work out but I know you need to do this to get things rolling for YOU and break the cycle that so clearly is not working for either of you.
Good for you NM. You are a strong woman who seems to have a wonderful support system, including HIS family (how great is that, lol). Take advantage of them and us and you'll be just fine. I know you will, with or without him.
Quick recap of the last day or so. Sunday saw OW calling SO - I once again overheard part of the convo. He was telling her to stop calling him; he was busy, blah, blah - more of the same sarcastic nasty attitude. He was working in the garage and told her he was busy and would call her back, plus the phone was dying. She must have started screaming at him that she was going to come to the house and confront me - he told her to "knock off your crazy sh!t" and if you do that "I'll never speak to you again". LOL She also must have asked him to meet her somewhere and he said no, he wasn't going anywhere and he things to do and he'd call her back when he had time. She must not have liked that very much. His friend, who was helping him, brought the phone into the house to charge it and the stupid little twit called back (and hung up) at least 16 times before I finally got po'd. Well, I was PO'd before that, but I was giving the kids baths and couldn't do anything about it.
When I got the kids settled, phone still ringing, hanging up, ringing again - I finally went downstairs and called over to SO. I said SO, can you come here a minute, I need to talk to you about something. Very nicely, very politely. He came over and I said, "She keeps calling here." He said "Don't answer it." I said, "Im not, but you don't understand, she's called at least 15 times and won't stop." I said, "I can't have this - I turned the ringers off, but WTH, is she psycho? I've got kids up there." He said, "So pick it up and tell her she's being disrespectful." I said, "No, I'm not getting involved in this. Then I'll look like the [censored]."
He came upstairs and of course she called again. The answering machine showed 24 messages (it registers hang ups). He took the call and started yelling at her. I stayed out of the way, he went to the kitchen and out the back door. D3 had followed him, he was yelling at OW to knock her crap off and simultaneously trying to get D3 to leave the room. I heard him say, "Do you think NM is EVER going to let you near my kids after this? She's already asked me if you're psycho. You're being disrespectful. The kids are here, yadda, yadda...." This must have set her off again because he went on some more...I just went as far away as I could.
I didn't hear much more, I know he yelled at D3 who ran crying and hid under the table. I had to coax her out, and yes - made a smart ass remark to SO about it, then took her upstairs for bed. He got off the phone while I was upstairs and came up to say goodnight to D3. He started with me, but I looked at him and said "not now."
When I got downstairs, he was back out in the garage. He wrapped it up rather quickly after that and his friend left and he came in, showered, and I assume called OW from the bedroom, although it had to have been pretty short. When he came out, he apologized profusely saying "I'm sorry about that, you don't need any of that." All I said was "it's OK. Well, it's not "OK", but, it's all right." End of subject.
Today he's emailed as well as told me again a couple of times that he was sorry. I told him that I saw it as something I couldn't understand. We never did that to each other and it made me feel bad. All he said was "I don't take any sh!t".
I'm putting this stuff in because I really find it interesting. No, I don't think it's going to change anything, but it alters my view of how "they" get along. And it does make me feel bad. Like something is really wrong with ME for him to choose that over me or something. Whatever.
I also figured out she's got some kind of game going on. I know he calls her when I leave to pick up D3 from school, but she doesn't answer. Then, she calls back at her convenience - then gets pissy when he won't answer. And it goes on and on and they fight about it. Kind of stupid if you ask me. I mean the whole convo in the kitchen last night was 15 minutes of them arguing about WHY he couldn't to talk right then. Nothing else. WTH?
Don't know why I'm wasting my time writing this. It's not like I dwell on it anymore. Just random musings, I suppose. But, from the sidelines, I can detach and see "their" patterns. Just observing, and making mental notes is all.
I've got some questions about how should I be acting about this move? I mean, I'm trying to pack things up...discreetly, I guess would be the word. Stuff out of closets, from the attic, basement, etc. Stuff like the couches, computer, clothes, dishes, etc, I obviously can't do anything with until the day I actually go, so, I'm trying to get all the "other stuff".
Anyway, he saw some of the boxes stacked in the basement and asked what they were. I just said "stuff that was laying around" or sometihng. I could tell he was stunned by seeing the boxes. Maybe the reality starting to hit him?
I mean, I'm planning on moving out when he's at work. (And he knows this). So, the full effect won't hit him until he gets home and sees everything (and us) gone. He won't even have a bed to sleep on that night. Or a couch. LOL (well, he's got his stuff from his apartment down in the basement - but it's a waterbed and won't be filled up...I suppose he could drag his couch upstairs...)
My intent is to leave everything - pixs on the walls; pix on the mantle - things like that - I'm leaving all that stuff where they are until the day of my departure. (And YES, I'm doing it this way on purpose.)
Everything that I can get together....i.e. the stuff he doesn't "see" daily; toys, kids closets, my closet...etc...I'm packing those things up already.
My question is, I'm focusing my thoughts on the move...and yeah, for lack of a better wording - "looking forward" to whatever I can about the whole unpleasant thing. I mean, I'm not thrilled about this, but how should I be acting? On one hand, it's devastated me. On the other, I KNOW I'll be OK.
So what do I show him outwardly? Happiness I'm moving out? If I say something positive about it, he, of course, then jumps that "I'm happy I'm moving out". Act sad - well that doesn't work either. I've actually been trying to avoid any inference to it all, but it is kind of hard. Looming in the not so distant future. There are things we need to discuss.
I just don't know how to act these days. For all intents and purposes, if you were to peek in our window, you'd see a happy family. Eating dinner together, us still in the same bedroom, watching tv, etc, etc. Our interactions on a daily basis haven't changed either. I guess because I don't know what the hell to do.
I'm trying. Think I'm doing a pretty good job of being noble, respectful, and gracious under the circumstances, if I may say so myself. I never realized I could be so damned strong and unreactive (is that a word?).
But then you have him constantly saying "This isn't what I want." and "This hurts me (him) more than I will ever know." or "This isn't what he wanted for his life or his kids." And moping around...WTH, dude? This was YOUR choice.
Then, 3 weeks later is D1's 2nd birthday. I think I'm having that party at "MY" place. 
LOL 
Gave me a little thrill in a demented sort of way. Like "Hah, I'm moving out and it's STILL not good enough." Makes me shake my head because I just don't get it. Especially when I think back to when he moved out into his own place and "they" lasted all of 2.5 months before he threw her out of his apartment. 