So, I have moved out of newcomers. My wife has decided to stay with me, but we are still in a world of hurt. One of the things she told me while in the WAW Fog was that she was not attracted to me, and never was. I was able to get over the hurt of this by chalking it up to her convincing herself how horrible life is with me.
Here we are, she is out of the fog and admitting there was one, but her story has not changed. I have the SSM book and will begin reading it soon. I am with little hope at this point, since while she is LD with me, she does have a sex drive. In order to get herself ready to have any kind of sexual interaction with me she fantasizes about other men. She has even pretended I was someone else while ML, but it felt wrong to her so she stopped.
It feels to me like she only does anything with me because of “duty”. I know I will need to start by reading the book, but for now, I am at a total loss.
Same story here. My wife (who is 31) was involved for 3 years with an OM (who is 61), and says she hasn't been attracted to me for years now...but she was once, back when we married.
In my case, I was very harsh and critical with her, and generally unloving. In addition, we mismanaged our finances, had a lot of debt and financial pressure for a while. I spent all my time sitting at a desk and gained a lot of weight.
However, for the past few years (while she was cheating on me and planning on leaving me and marrying OM) I worked my tail off to get us out of debt (which we now are). I've also lost 60 pounds, got into excellent shape again, and have been treating her very, very well. In general, I'm as attractive as I've ever been (at least as good as someone staring down the barrel of 40 years old can be).
My W acknowledges all this, says I look great, dress great, she thinks I'm handsome, I'm strong, gentle, sweet, and loving, and treat her like a husband should treat his wife. She says she's always been happy with my performance in the bedroom, that technically/physically I do all the right stuff. She respects me alot.
But feels mostly nothing at all in terms of attraction. Says I stomped out the feelings she had for me years ago by my harsh, critical treatment of her. Not abuse, I just found fault in everything she did and she finally just gave up on me/us.
Still, she is committed and wants us to have the best marriage we can. She will ML but doesn't really want to, is just willing to because "it's important to the healing process".
I don't have any advice for you, just sympathy/empathy. I'm in the same basic boat.
All I'm doing is trying to do my best in all areas of my life, with God's help, and just keep on keepin' on.
The problem is, I know for a fact that other women at work and whatnot find me attractive and are interested in me. So I know it's not me (at least not anymore); it's her.
But as long as I'm treating her right, I'm not responsible for how she feels. It hurts, I know, especially when you know there are others out there who might think you're the cat's meow.
It made me realize a little how she felt years ago and why she was so vulnerable to another person. So, I've been tempted to cheat, too...not just to get her back, but to fill that need to be desired by someone else. It's tough.
I finally realized that if I cheated, then
a) I wouldn't really be "worth it" to anyone anymore b) self-respect would be gone c) lose the ability to look my sons in the eye one day if they're in a tough spot and say, "You can be honorable; I resisted temptation, and you can too."
So it's a no-brainer for me. I remain faithful no matter how much it hurts.
In a way, I think I'm just reaping what I sowed years ago. I became an unlovable person, so I have a hard time blaming her for not feeling loving toward me. I can blame her for cheating, but not for losing her attraction for me.
I just do my best now and hope that one day those feelings will come back.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
why did your W come back? Tell us more about your R. or post a link to your previous threads... Do you have kids?
tough lover
I see a lot of differences with you and corey...
you have made a lot of changes... extraordinary changes.
how long have you been reconciled/the affair over? you should post a thread, the ladies here love men fixing....
In a way, I think I'm just reaping what I sowed years ago. I became an unlovable person, so I have a hard time blaming her for not feeling loving toward me. I can blame her for cheating, but not for losing her attraction for me.
Ok you reaped what you sowed when she lost attraction for you. Thats over. You are not unloveable. I believe you and agree that she does have some significant amount of respect for you. IMO her regaining attraction for you is going to be more about you changing your belief and viewpoint about yourself, then anything else. You deserve high quality love.
That is not the same as resentment fueled entitlement.
AS for why she stayed? She has told me that the fog started to lift. She realised everything that she would be throwing away by not trying to get our R back on track. She realised how much this would hurt the boys and that they deserve our attempt at getting things back.
The guy that I complained about through my other threads had been trying to get her involved in a full blown affair for a couple of months. She has come clean about it, and has cut him out of her life. I believe her when she tells me that she only thought of him as a friend, he was pushing for more, and she was getting off on the attention. Could be considered an EA, but I want to move forward from here.
Things she complains about:
I cannot relax enough.
I am a prude.
I think too much about things.
Not spontaneous enough.
Not willing to just let go.
She knows she has control issues. She knows she needs therapy. She is unsure if she can get attracted to me again. She does not know if the passion can be reignited between us.
A friend pointed out that we have some destructive behaviours in our interactions. We have a habit of goading the other one into hurting the other. We are like pitbulls and do not let go of issues until one of us is "bloodied on the floor". Her aggressive, me passive-aggressive.
There we have it. Don't know what else to add, but ask away and I will answer.
I think that how uptight I am around her is more a function of our relationship than how I would be with other people. When we first got together 8 years ago, she was rather naïve, and fairly proper. This set a tone in our relationship, and I have not been able to break away from it, even though she has changed.
Our sex life stayed rather mundane and boring. That’s not to say we have used the same 2 positions for 8 years or anything, but we got into a routine, she wasn’t being satisfied, so she just wanted to get it over with whenever we had sex. This led to a war in my mind where I knew things weren’t right, but she always just told me they were fine. Anxiety kicks in, rinse, repeat, same old boring stuff.
There is one physical problem with us. She has a spot inside of her, that if I hit it, it causes her a lot of pain. It just happens to be in almost a perfect spot for me to hit.
So now it is all my fault. I am the one that has the problem. I am the one that cannot change things up. I am the one that never wants to try anything new. I am the one that is too shy for anything. Never mind that it has only been in the last year that she came out of her shell sexually.
A bit of built up resentment exists. I have felt rejected for years. Now to be told I am just not attractive to her was more painful than anything I have gone through yet.
Yesterday I did want to show her that I was not as much of a prude as she thinks. She was all bravado about driving around the city naked. So, when we were on our way home from being out, we stopped to get some drinks. I says to myself, self, it is time to get naked.
So there I am in the buff when she gets back to the car. All of her excuses come out as to why she can’t get naked. Of course, this is coming from a woman who “doesn’t care who sees her breasts.” I told her I thought she was bluffing, and drove home sans clothes.
I understand how brutal it can be to have the person you adore say those things and I also understand your anxiety right now with your relationship. You have to keep on with the changes that got you this far. Have you reconected with your old friends? hows the guitar playing? Right now you have to make any sexual encounter pleasant this means avoid that spot at all cost. There is nothing that I know of that you can do that will change things overnight, the process will be slow and difficult. Remember those feelings when you finally understood that your wife was not sexually attracted to you, that kick in the gut? Thats your motivation to fix this mess.
You have to address this problem head on with your wife you have to become partners in figuring this out. Shes not happy with her sexlife and your not happy with yours, this should be motivation enough to be honest and open with each other and get at this problem with some solutions.
Its tough,, its hard, it sucks, its not fair but its the way it is right now you've handled your situation very well so far and I am sure that you will do well.
Here is my trite adivice that you already know. Don't try to too hard it comes across as desperate and desperate is not attractive. A bad experience around sexual activity does not make sexual activity desireable, so be carefull if things go bad in bed realy try to calm yourself down and don't react negatively to her if things get heated. Realise that in all likelyhood no matter who your wife married that the situation she would find herself in would be the same 8 years later. Start doing nice things for yourself and number one thing is exercise if you don't exercise right now join a gym and lift heavy things untill you're tired.
Okay, from one Corri to another, you have just got to stop this 'in your face stuff.' Getting naked in the car. Power play. Severe turn off. (I admire your grit, though).
The... hmmmm.... mistake (?) I see men make... that I experience for myself... is when I see a man confused as to how to proceed with me (because he would like to have sex, and I'm not really exhibiting any behavior that would indicate to him that I am ready to have sex)... they begin to drop subtle and not so subtle hints that sex is what they would like FROM me. This can include 'in your face behavior,' like what you did... because that is what she said at one time she'd do... (logical, but timing is way off)... or it can include groping erogenous zones without touching any other part of the body in a non-sexual way... it can be a kiss that is a bit too aggressive... it can be an outright question... "want to fool around? Want to have sex?" I mean... YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These things, especially for LD women, are a TURN OFF. Not because YOU are unattractive, but because you are placating and acting in a non-attractive manner. Begging without begging, if you kwis.
Now... Blackfoot can tell you way more about this attraction thing than I can... but the secret for me, at least... is when a man begins to act in a fashion that makes ME WANT to touch HIM... and more than likely, he has not touched me or kissed me yet.
It is a subtle invitation from him to me that he MIGHT want to play... but, at the same time, you indicate that you can (and will, if necessary) withdraw the invitation at any moment. And there is a big difference between inviting a woman to step toward you than there is in asking her to do so.... if that makes any sense.
I think a lot of times when women say that they have gotten 'bored' with men is when their men loose the radio frequency on which their women are operating. Men are like microwaves and women are like slow cookers (with the possible exception of HD wifes... but still, they can loose interest too). In the beginning of an R, men are most definitely focused in on the female frequency.
As R's progress and men go out into the world and set about the business of supporting W and potential family, THEIR frequency changes, for their focus on daily duties has changed. This happens to women, too, so I am NOT laying blame on the guys.
But... to put it bluntly... we lose our frequency for each other. Instead of having that nice crystal clear signal, we now have static interrupting the music... and it can get dam flipping annoying listening to a radio station with severe static all the time... kwis?
I don't know if this is making any sense, and maybe BF can set it all straight for you... but... my point is... if you want to be touched... then find the behaviors and amplitude that is going to make your W want to touch YOU. Otherwise, all you are going to get is 'duty' sex.
For example. Think back on a time when you were dating your W and she was really hot for you. You may be thinking to yourself, "Well... then I was in good shape, I made sure I was dressed 'cool', I brought her flowers, I took her out on a great date... and she couldn't WAIT to get her hands on me. I do that now and I get.... NOTHING. What gives?'
Amplitude. Frequency. It is not WHAT you did... but HOW you did it. It wasn't what you said... but the tone of voice with which you said things, how you looked at her... you gave off all kinds of feelings of secure, safe, sexy, attractive invitation vibes that she truly could not resist. And this, in turn, notched up her amplitude.... her frequency.
She went out with you. And then she went out with you again. And then you called her. Think not on what you spoke of on the phone... but HOW you spoke to her... how your voice sounded... how you laughed... how you sent vibes TO her.
This attraction thing is very subtle and elusive... did you at any point in your R feel that your W was the one person who 'got' you? And you thought to yourself, "oh my goodness... SHE GETS ME. I've never met anyone that really GOT me. They understand me.'
Yes. And I can tell you, it isn't about sex. (Though that is a lovely side benefit.)
Figuring out the fundamentals in the bedroom is a matter of trial and error. You futz and fiddle and fine tune. That happens over a course of time. What keeps things sizzling is the honesty and willingness to be honest and vulnerable and bare with your partner while you are futzing and fiddling and fine tuning. If you have a women who is rushing to O... you've got a problem. And you have a radio frequency/honesty problem. An attraction problem. If you are placating and she's rushing to O... attraction has gone out the window, baby and bathwater included.
Don't tell your woman how much you WANT her... lead her to a place where she understands how much she WANTS YOU... inhibition tends to fly out the window at that point...
If I must be blunt... TEASE THE HELL OUT OF HER with no promise whatsoever... almost a promise that NOTHING OTHER THAN TEASING is going to happen.
Get her turned on and let her stew. Chuckle at her good naturedly. If you are in a power play R... she will resist her own impulses just to win. She may actually even be annoyed with you.... mildly annoyed is a good sign. Outright pissed offness is not good... at least right out of the gate. If she's well and truly 'pissy' by day three, you've GOT her.
Let me ask you... would you rather wait three days for awesome sex or take a lame azz offering, in the moment, for mediocre or duty sex?
When you get that offer of... 'okay, fine, let's go,' PUHLEEZE. Look at her tenderly... give her a nice soft kiss on her forehead... a really wonderful hug, and a warm chuckle as you say, "you silly girl, I don't want to have sex with you. I'm not in the mood." Leave her hang.
Continue with subtle teasing and frequency adjustment. Rinse. Repeat. C'mon man... you picked up on it once... do it again.... don't ASK her to come to you in a weak pleading voice... don't DARE her to come to you... EWH....INVITE her to come to you with the clear message that it is HER loss if she doesn't.
Fck. I bet this makes no sense.... Hmmm... welll.... I'll leave it to BF.
Corri
P.S. HD gals, this works the other way, too, but you have to 'adjust' the formula. Mo, if you want to experiment, let me know, and we can discuss. I'd be interested to see how it would work for you.
I dont know if you understood Corris post, but I know I was thinking ... Man, Im going to need an oscilliscope and a VOM to figure out how to understand women. Sheesh.
While the teasing and stuff she is talking about can be fun, I know when Im in a committed R, in love, I want to have sex with her pretty much everyday, so the game playing and pushing and waiting for days etc, doesnt sound too appealing.
I just read thru your other thread, you made some good progress and changes on yourself in a short time period.
A recurring theme I see with your guys dynamic is that you let her 'set the tone' to various aspects of the R, instead of being yourself, and lettting her adjust to it or set a boundary too you. You let her change you in regards to your friends, how you behave in public or with your friends, and the sexual tone fo the R too. Youve gotten over your conflict avoidance but your 'acting out' by stripping down in the car is not exactly a middle ground. I did get a really good laugh about it though. Thanks for that.
The only thing I can suggest right now is that you decide what your sexual desires and needs are and be very upfront and direct about them. Dont be afraid of her imagined or possible reactions and rejections. If something is too much for her, dont take it as a rejection of you. Its just her fear of the unknown. If its too much for her, dial it back a notch or two and let her be comfortable with that. Then try again later. Often times she will be considering what you want, without letting you know, but if you get angry or resentful, its going to immediately make her feel unheard, and disrespected.
as far as her fantasizing about OM. Make sure she is in the moment with you. IF she is not, stop the interaction without irritation. Dont settle for less then you want and deserve, for your own self respect.
