W Never Left, But This Is Tough!

[toughlover]

Summary:
Me(H) 39
W 31
M 11yrs
2 sons
Bomb Dropped: 7/8/2006

Bomb: W said she had been having an EA/PA for 3 years with a man 30 years older than her (yep, that's right, she's 31, he's 61!). She planned to divorce me after moving to the town we live in now, about 70 miles from where we were (and OM). We had serious debt as well as distance in our marriage. She shut down emotionally from me several years ago due to my being overly harsh and critical of her (it's true, unfortunately). But, over the years, I worked my tail off to get us out of debt. Changed careers (IT), lost 60 pounds, everything was (supposed to be) better when we moved to the new town, new job, etc. However, we moved on July 3 and she dropped the bomb (OM + ILYBNILWY) on July 8.

Here's the good stuff:
-she cut off all contact with OM upon my request
-wants to save the marriage ("for the children" and because "it's the right thing to do"...not because she's in love with me)
-has recommitted herself to our faith (and, as a Christian, does not believe in D)
-attends MC jointly with me every week
-treats me "as if" everything's normal
-She will ML if I want but makes it clear she doesn't want to, is only "acting as if" and is "willing" to because I "need" it, though she's very nice about it.

Minuses:
-hasn't been "in love" with me for years, maybe "never was"
-believes she and OM truly love/d each other
-says she wanted to leave me to have a truly Christian marriage with OM...they were going to continue with their adulterous relationship until she could get a job, get out on her own, divorce me, and marry him, at which point they were going to repent and have a Christ-centered marriage.
-Says she wanted to leave since 2000-2001 but we had too much debt and I "didn't want her to get a good job."

I hate to whine here, because I realize I have it better than many. She says she's committed to the marriage because it's part of God's will for her/our life, to do her part, and trust that God will restore her feelings for me one day. I, for my part, have been treating her like a queen, have been trying to put the pain behind me and just focus on the future, have recommitted myself to my faith, etc. In short, trying to be husband of the year.

It would seem to be as close to an ideal sitch as there is barring full marriage/feelings restoration.

I've asked this here before, but I need to ask again, because I've read DR but this seems like a unique situation. She's not technically WAW because she never really left, although she says she really wanted to leave and be this guy's wife (even though he's 30 years older). She will be affectionate in a limited way and will ML because she wants to "act as if" but there's no true feelings behind it...she's just doing it hoping the feelings will be there someday. Will give me a peck on the lips hello/goodbye but doesn't like passionate kissing or anything.

So, the usual DB techniques don't seem quite appropriate, for she's seen me change gradually for the better for the past couple years anyhow, and most of my life is working and doing stuff with our sons, and church. So, we go out to dinner, movies, whatever, but she doesn't seem to want much romance, even when we ML...just sort of wants to get it over with, although she's extremely nice about it.

Don't really know what to do about all that??!!

[alexjadams]

Just keep it going! She will change if you continue your change. I had almost the same exact sitch. But it was a guy she grew up with. The no contact thing is got to happen! Right now her heart’s with the OM and her Mind is with you! Her mind will eventually tell her heart not to leave. Also GAL, she needs to see you moving on to scare her, or bring her to reality. Walk a way spouses think only about them selves (they are the victim, not you! and because of all the pain you have caused them, for them to act this way it is justified)
ILBNILWY is crap she married you, it’s just she gets the butterflies with the OM b-cuz it’s new & not you. That’s why affairs only last about 6 months to a year, after the newness is gone and they have to deal with real life (kids, bills, tickets, illness, etc..) and come down from the fantasy.
Once the OM is out of the picture, & she has had sometime to grieve, she will realize what she has done, and she will have guilt and you have got to take the high road. At this point she will need you the most, because she will know that after what she did you should leave and she doesn’t want you to but she can’t really say anything about it if you did. She will need constant reinforcement of your love and commitment to her; you would think it would be the other way around!

[toughlover]

Thanks for the response, Alex.

Your sitch sounds very similar to mine. My W was seeing this guy for 3 years behind my back, and planned to divorce me and marry him. I mean she's invested deep with this guy. We're in MC now, and we're actually getting along pretty good except for the "I have no feelings for you, only him" stuff.

Man, that's hard to listen to!

At first it just hurt. Now it kinda makes me want to puke. The ILYBINILWY crap sounds so high-schoolish, but still those feelings for me need to be there.

This is extremely difficult...most difficult thing I've ever done in my life.

[xuesheng]

Your absolutely right when you say it's the toughest thing you've ever done in your life. I thought I had been through hell in my life until my sitch started, then I found the true meaning of it.

Sounds a lot like my sitch too until my Wife one day quite with the sex too. That was 25 months ago, ouch!!!

I started DB ing around 11/05 and have come a long way. Hard to tell where we are sometimes the progress has been so slow but progress it has been.

Sorry your here but your in the right place

Xue

[alexjadams]

STAY STRONG!
She will come around, I spend days wanting to run out my door and never look back. I can’t because when everything is said and done with I need to be able to look my kids in the eyes and say “Daddy did everything” and until I reach that point I’ve gotta keep trying, I feel the days are starting to get numbered though!

[toughlover]

Thanks. I'm staying strong, with God's help, and staying positive. I had really already GAL and started the 180 before the bomb was dropped, which is the funny/sad part. As part of moving to our new town and taking the new job, I had already decided to work on the marriage cause I knew it needed work. Just didn't know it needed this much!

Our MC is very solution-oriented and consistent with DB, so he's basically been validating most of what I've been doing.

But I'm still not getting the ILY's, so I'm not giving them either...but I AM demonstrating my love, just not saying it. Think that's the way to go in this sitch?

It's wierd...I'm getting the sex, but not the ILY's...in all honesty, I'd rather have the ILY's, if I had to choose between the two.

Things are pretty good, but there's no affection from her that isn't obviously forced, and from her I'm still getting the, "You know, you're in the best shape ever" (running, lost 60 pounds, got the muscle back to...the kids call me "the new 'buff' dad"), "you dress better, you're still handsome, you've got a good job and great prospects, and personality-wise you're better than you've ever been, but I just can't imagine being attracted to you or feeling anything for you again."

Man, that hurts. What IS the deal? Has it not been enough time (just 2 months since she told me about OM and broke off contact)? What the heck can I do about that? Already GAL, already PMA, both already committed to having the best marriage possible.

My concern is that by ML when she's really just "acting as if" will sort of just reinforce the negatives...sort of call attention to the fact that she doesn't feel anything for me...even though she says she wants to, just can't. OTOH, I can't imagine refusing to ML when she's willing, just doesn't "want" to.

This stuff'll drive you nuts!

[kml]

My concern is that by ML when she's really just "acting as if" will sort of just reinforce the negatives...sort of call attention to the fact that she doesn't feel anything for me...even though she says she wants to, just can't.

Okay, pardon my indelicate question here, but - does she have an orgasm when you ML? I have a medical reason for asking this. Oxytocin is released in the brain during orgasm, and it is a "bonding" hormone - the same one that bonds women to their newborns. So, IF she's orgasmic with you, ML could eventually bond her back to you through that hormonal route (If she never comes with you, and you don't think she will, then all bets are off, I guess.)

Ellie

[toughlover]

The first time we ML after the bomb was dropped, she had an orgasm. She hasn't had one since from having intercourse w/me, but has them when I've given her oral sex or using my fingers to stimulate her.

We've ML about 8 times since the bomb was dropped. The story she tells is, she used to have orgasms when we were first married, then we grew apart and she stopped having them (but faked it) for several years. Says it's all about the emotions for her, and she doesn't feel anything for me.

Sounds bad, eh?

[kml]

Not terminal. She can HAVE orgasms, that's good. The more the better - get that oxytocin flowing!!! And she's given you a hint about the emotions - she probably is one of those women who needs the romance, no? The old saw is: men need sex to feel close, women need to feel close to have sex.

I'm betting the old guy wasn't better in bed than you, or better looking than your newly buffed self. What drew her in was probably the romance.

Now, of course, it's hard to figure out how to romance someone who doesn't want to be romanced. Definitely read The Five Love Languages by Chapman - that's an essential starting point, and a quick read. Then can you get her to go on dates with you? Maybe if you couch them as activities and not "dates" per se? If you can - then plan dates that are designed to make her fall back in love with you. Scientists that study this say adrenaline contributes to "falling in love" - so rollercoasters and scary movies are good. Concerts and comedy clubs are probably good too. Dinner out is kinda bad - too much room for bad convos to develop.

If she's depressed, then exercise dates are good because exercise is good for depression. Would she be interested in taking a salsa-dancing class with you? Could you get her to consider a dream vacation with just the two of you? (I know, she would probably resist right now, but maybe you could just start talking about how "someday" you'd like to go to Tuscany, or some such.)

BTW - like your screen name. When I first came here I had a different screen name - toughenough4love. Always thought of the Bruce Springsteen line - "if you're rough and ready for love, baby I'm tougher than the rest"

Ellie

[alexjadams]

Listen to KML, he’s right! BTW no relationship talk, just be there for her. Part of this is the lost of the OM and the guilt of OM. She is trying to talk herself out of being in love with you again. Don’t give her the ammo! Be there for her, do what you did to win her the first time, it’s kind of like you two are starting over again, she put your relationship on reset, and so now you’ve got to win her all over again, Good news is that you know her so you can speed up the process! Also, tell her you don’t want sex unless she wants it too, Kiss her more, touch her more (non-sexual), Buy her a pair of jeans that she will like, think outside of “toughlover” do something he wouldn’t and if she likes it do it more don’t do the old you ! Do something new!