Dear Kansha, You should get some kind of metal for reading all that!! Thanks for the encouragement, it really helps me. I'll be checking your thread too! 2L
2learn-I asked my H for a copy of his cell bill-youcan read what happened on my post "let it go". Please let me know what you think. Was I wrong? Rachael M.
At this point it works best for me to drop by here once in a while (not sure I'll ever say good-bye but hope to someday feel like I'm OK and my purpose for visiting is just to coach others--how's that for a goal!?!) anyway I may be ducking out from here again for a while but you can be sure that I will be fighting the good fight and holding you all in my thoughts. Thanks for all your help and thank you Michele for providing this place and for articulating so many good ideas! 2L
Kent! My good ole buddy and pal! As I've told you many times, you have helped me over some mighty rough spots! How are you and your wonderful family??! How nice to "see" you!
I'm back earlier than I thought and look forward to your seasoned opinion on this.
It is looking to me like there is a time for me to stop Divorce Busting. A time to build in a different way. I think the skills needed for "partnershiping" are different from divorce busting skills—lots of over lap but different. My H's and my experience is different from most here, but believe me folks, even though some of you may think I should view myself as having no problems, there are some serious obstacles before my H and I in getting our marriage where we want it to be. However, I think they are mostly serious misunderstandings.
Our issues aren't about loving each other, we do and we know it, individually. They are not about commitment, we are and we know it, individually (OK, on this one I still hope this is true fo him~). It has been about doing what it takes for the other to feel good about him/herself and to feel loved by the other and that has involved SHARING FEELINGS, PERCEIVED NEEDS without feeling apologetic for them, AND THOUGHTS HONESTLY and NOT KEEPING THEM INSIDE. It has been about rebuilding trust and confidence in ourselves and each other. Now I still need to do this VERY CAREFULLY (in the very best meaning of the word--with lots of love for myself and for my H). I still have many experiments ahead of me, plenty of times when I'll have to hold a thought a long, long time until I have come up with the wisest way to express it but those thoughts need to be expressed. I also need to be prepared not to skip a beat if my H decides my expressed need conflicts with his and so he will not honor it. But I think we have gone through a lot of pain in this phase of "piecing" because I have been afraid to share openly.
Perhaps it would help to have another level to this board that would give a place for one or both spouses to talk about things that come up after both parties have made the commitment to be full participants in the marriage after some serious difficulties. This situation has a different set of issues and they too can be very difficult and painful to navigate. We could add a whole new dimension to this marriage laboratory!
ALTL2L, **************************************************** Our issues aren't about loving each other, we do and we know it, individually. They are not about commitment, we are and we know it, individually (OK, on this one I still hope this is true fo him~). It has been about doing what it takes for the other to feel good about him/herself and to feel loved by the other and that has involved SHARING FEELINGS, PERCEIVED NEEDS without feeling apologetic for them, AND THOUGHTS HONESTLY and NOT KEEPING THEM INSIDE. ********************************************************** So what is it all about?? The hangup that is. Is it the fact that you are different?? Is it that you need more closeness than he does??? Is it lingering insecurity???? Is it the fact that like me, you are a tad type A and fall off the deep end occasionally?????
Your right in that we are'nt strictly DBing anymore. Piecing is uncharted water for each couple. This is where you have to apply what you learned about doing what works.
Sometimes that means you need to be selfish. Sometimes giving. Sometimes sharing. Sometimes it means leaving our spouse alone. Sometimes we want to be alone.
I don't believe there is some deep hidden meaning to M. It's a day to day effort of melding two personalities to make a relationship work. One might ask why? For me, it has alot to do with my desire to have children. It also has alot to do with building strength. The family united stands much stronger than the individual ever could alone. It also has alot to do with occasional sharing that transpires between husband and wife.
I'm not so sure you will find all the answers here on this BB. I am coming to realize that I can usually find the answers within myself. As long as I am willing to face the truth. That's not always easy.
I've been thinking of starting a thread over in "Staying Solutions Focused" My thoughts are still getting organized as to what I need to accomplish. I don't feel like I am Piecing anymore . Not in the traditional sense. However, like you, there is much more work for me to do within.
2learn-I feel exactly the way you do! I know what you mean that is gets different once your back together and know your both commited (I too, hope he's on the same page as me-he says he is)It's like we are together but there is so much more we have to do to be where we both want to be. It's hard to know what to do and when. My H wants to talk. He wants conversation. WEll, that's fine, but he does not want to talk about anything intimant. I guess he just want sto talk like two friends except with a friend you talk about EVERYTHING. He's not real comfortable talking about everything and frankly neither am I. I'm afraid of stirring the pot too much. We both want more intimacy (not sex-that's pretty much ok), but don;t know where to start to get there. C helps, but that's 2 hrs every other week that youhave to talk and feel safe. WE use Mirroring where yousau something and the other one repeats it back to you and asks youif that's right and I say yes or no, nad he asks if theres more and if there is then I tell him and he repaests it and so on. It makes you feel heard. They cannot interrupt and start talking about thier own stuff. I have started using it at home sometimes, but then the bad thing is that you get to say what you feel and they listen, but you don't get any real answers unless he chooses to talk on his own after I am done. Ijst want to know when I'll really start to trust him again after such a long affair. How ca I ever know he is telling me the truth? Youhad to have had a hard time 2Learn since your H had a long A too. It's so hard and he does not like to bring it up. It's true they just want it to all go away becasue they say its over and they love you. SOrry-it doese not happen that fast. It feels light years away before I can really trust him again. I act as if-that's the best I can do right now nad I'm tryingto calm myself from the anxiety and tell myself if he is cheatign ther is not ONE single thing I can do about it and its his choice. I'd just have to deal with that if it ever came up-hopefully it NEVER will. Let me know how your doing! Rachael M.
Now Kent, I deserve better than to be called a lot to learn to learn LOL
I just want to find peace within myself that my life is to learn. I need to learn to accept all the insecurities of life while keeping a positive and appreciative attitude. One of my mentor friends put it exactly this way in an e-mail to me:
"I KNOW that I WOULD MISS/ WOULDN'T SEE GOOD MOMENTS!! if I didn't look at life in a positive way."
She is the most positive person I know despite cognitive deficits and living life in a wheelchair due to MS. Wish we could bottle what she's got and pass it around. But finding one's way to such an attitude is a rewarding journey in itself.
So what's the hang-up in our marriage? Used to think it was the things you mention. Now I think it is simply that we haven't yet learned how to bring out and effectively communicate our love. May sound schmaltzy but that is it. I can't do anything about how my H learns but I want more than anything to learn to respect and love myself and the people in my life. All my other goals are founded on me learning that.
I agree, no deep hidden meaning to marriage. Certainly, it is just about the simplest most basic of relationships and we humans have been managing it both well and poorly since it first began (surely most every married person has done it both ways!). However, I have not lost faith in two strong individuals who share their lives deeply in conscious, mutually expressed love. My H and I have that, it just needs to be nurtured. Nurturing a marriage at times involves a lot of self control—I’m working on that. It is very important lesson for McCords, Rachel ! That’s what these folks are trying to teach you and have had a heck of a time trying to teach me.
I am with my husband because we love each other, not any reason outside of the marriage. We have both been through a very long and terrible experience and as we become knowledgeable and capable with how, we are helping ourselves and each other to heal. Even in the best of circumstances, which I am very fortunate to have, this is difficult and it is a different process from the situation of having one spouse not fully committed to the marriage.
Our process has been hindered lately because I’ve been afraid to thoughtfully, lovingly open up--afraid to trust who I am and what I have. That is essentially what Retrovaille is all about. My H surprised me by saying in our counseling session that was an important turning point for him (we had lost communication so much I thought he had discounted that experience—that is just sad!). If your H wants to talk, Rachel, (what a wonderful thing that is!) he would love Retrovaille!
He wants conversation-like the kind you have with a friend. He does not want the kind that may cause any contoversy as in an OR talk. He stays away from them for the most part. HE does not want to get locked iunto a conversation with me because I tend to outdo him in the talking sense. I don;t think he can process fast enough OR talks when they are deep, therefore feels threatened by them, or tends to get very defensive. You know-they best offense is a good defense-well he is King of the defense mode. I have to be very careful how I word things. Our MC is trying to get him to understand why he gets that way by looking back to his Childhood and his overbearing alchoholic Father. He still refused to see the connection, and is in total denial about the effect his Father had on him. His FAther also had an A. I'm sure this is a great sense of shame for Adrian since I'm sure he hated it when his Father did it to his Mother now he has done it to the Mother of his children. If he loks at how it pained him he would then have to look at how it pained our children and may have a lifetime effect on them. He has mentioned in C that he heard if you had a parent that had an A, you are more likely to have one also. I'm sure he thinks about our kids when he says things like that. The lure he had to her was such that he was willing to risk us, the kids and our family as a whole. I hope he is smart enough not to take that risk again. The damage would be irreprible to me and the kids. I think he knows this, but does he have the courage to face the reality of it?? I hope he already has. Rachael M.
LOL