Thanks Andy, I always come away with helpful stuff from your posts! Looks like the talk and some reading I'm doing (Divorce Remedy) is helping a lot. A very nice shift has taken place. Now to keep it going! 2
I am finding that trust and knowing when it is OK to trust is very difficult for me now in many situations. I don't trust my judgment. We are trying to buy a house and I am so suspicious and can't tell if it is valid or not. This makes me remember in keen clarity times my life when I have used poor judgment and been suspicious. Well guess that just makes me human . Wouldn't be surprised if others have had this experience. What have you done to learn to trust yourself?
I know that staying calm and accepting that your best is sure not perfect but it's all you have is a good start.
Just a note to say that things are going very well. They changed right after our last OR talk which was about 10 days ago and are maintaining. My H seems to have understood some things he didn't before and I am understanding new ways of looking at how we relate to each other too. I think the main reason why this is happening is because I opened up, but in a better way than I have in the past, and a combination of "letting the world turn" (my father's expression for letting things be--calm acceptance of "what is" over time)and plain ole persistence. My H is treating me very kindly and lovingly even though he is terribly stressed out with work. I am deeply appreciative. We are getting better. How I hope we can continue to progress! Peace and kindness do lead to understanding and love. I wish you all these four and more! 2L
Well maybe the dips and highs are at least getting further apart.
Tough weekend. We are at a major transition time, buying a house, and I thought we were getting pretty stable but my H surprised me with some very negative feelings. He felt I provoked them because I brought up the affair, at a bad time, to try to explain how I was seeing sexual concerns that I have been having. He got so depressed that he told me he wanted to kill himself. Today he says that he would not act on that wish and that his depressions like this only last for a couple hours then pass. He had such a tough childhood that perhaps he thinks these kinds of feelings are just part of life. I do not share that view and am worried about him. Of course this was a very loud message for me to not bring up the affair, OK, OK.
I still hope that some evidently far off day we will be able to talk about that affair just like we talk about other difficult times in our history, as partners who helped each other through a painful period. How can people be over a past event if they are traumatized every time they talk about it? That means it still has power over them, that there is something to dread. Healing to me would mean no blame, just compassion but no avoidance either. I have heard of many couples who accomplish this (Retrovaille is full of them) and wish we could have this freedom. However I realize my H isn't there and there really isn't anything I can do but accept that, wait, and try to help him feel more comfortable.
I have apologized, told him that I love him, and want to support him but that it is very hard for me to feel comfortable going ahead with this major investment if he is so unhappy with me. During the affair we lost a bundle on a huge investment in a house because I didn't know what was going on. Now I feel like I know we aren't stable so shall I still plow ahead? Shall I go participate in this commitment, now, knowing that we are still so broken? To me it's a little like people who have a baby to try to save their marriage. Get the marriage healthy first then have the baby.
I had some pretty nihilistic thoughts during my depression but I am happy to say that I haven't thought like that even for a minute for quite some time. I will stand by him through his depressions and stay engaged. I will not emotionally abandon him. He has agreed to go to see my therapist Thurs. because of my reluctance re the house. I want to use the session well. Hope I can figure out how to do that. I want to give him a vote of confidence by going ahead with the house but I don't want to be unwise. This house will stretch our finances so will create some additional stress but we both love it and we've looked for a long, long time. We both need a permanent home but the stability needs to be between us or this will just be an expensive house not a home. Thoughts anyone?
Yesterday asked my H why he wants to buy a house with me if he is having depressions so bad (that he feels I am precipitating) that he wants to kill himself. He seemed surprised at the question said he loves me and wants to live with me in that house and that those depressions pass.
Had to communicate frequently about the house all through the day yesterday. Things are moving along on the house but need several more inspections and estimates for needed repairs.
Weird but sort of calm evening last night. I said nothing (just had no words) when he got home but I was calm, (now that is very different!). He didn't talk either. He started working, we had dinner and meaningless but pleasant conversation, watched the middle third of a good movie we'd seen the end of on the tube.
Spoke to my stress provoking parents but didn't let my dad get to me.
H worked on a grant.
As usual, late to bed and H reading till very late. Made love but it was very difficult and unsatisfying for me for emotional reasons and seemed frustrating for him because foreplay was different and took longer than usual (sorry if that's more than you wanted to know ). This am he talked a long time about work before he left and as usual acted like I was keeping him. Think my comments were helpful with perhaps a few off base as usual. I tried to playfully shoo him out the door but he didn't completely get the humor.
Thurs we go to my therapist and I'm not bringing up OR till then but will be delighted to talk if he wants to before we go. Even when we see the therapist, I will express my concerns about his suicidal thoughts and try to mostly listen.
Now thinking I will agree to proceed with the house to show I am committed to him but I don't want to live with someone who thinks I'm torturing him and he is being some brave martyr.
In this last episode he thought I was "interrogating" him because I asked him what was his understanding of our next step on the house. He thinks asking for a recap of what we said amounts to "infantalizing" him. When I ask if there is any way for me to be sure we are understanding each other that would be acceptable to him, he has no suggestions. We signed the contract on this house with me not understanding that was the plan for the day. I thought we were going to negotiate further. What to do?
I am staying pretty calm, I'm trying to trust the process, but my marriage is taking up more of my energy than makes sense to give. We are 3 years now past the revelation of the 5 year affair and we've yet to celebrate our 10th anniversary (early Sept). OK, Whine alert! PMA, PMA, PMA!!!!!!!
I'm sorry, did you say a 5 yr affair? My H had a 2 1/2 yr affair and I though tthat was the longest one on here. Tell me, when he broke it off did he do it once and for all or did it take him awhile. Isn't trust almost impossible to regain after somethig like that? My H broke off the A as soon as I learned about it and has had NO contact with her since he says. He ws ready to greak it off I think. She was not soemone he would want to spend the rest of his life with anyway -to much baggage-older than him, not pretty, I could go on but I won't. How did it go when your H broke it off. The OW in iour case was soemone who he had been firends with for yrs through business-she really jumped onthe bandwagopn when he started talking about our problems. SHe wanted hiim bad and thought hse was going to get him -he moved out for 6 months. Then I found out anout the A and he moved back home and has bveen home for 5 months. Trsut is REALLY slow to come. HE tells me he loves me all the time-tells me he has no desire to call or talek to her but these could all be jsut words. How dod you know it was really over??? Rachael M.
Hi rmccord, You have the name of most of my relatives! I have a very small family till you get back to those mccords!
Yes I believe it is possible to build some type of trust after a lengthy affair. In my travels I met a couple in cyberspace who are recovering from something like a 16 year affair!!!! I don't know if the trust will ever be complete again like it was. Maybe when we are both 90something... ...
Here is our story hope it helps. Do not be fooled by the different name alottolearn, that's me. Now I know that I'm on the planet to learn just like everybody else thus the name change (plus lost passwords!) You can do it rmccord!
Thank you 2 learn-you inspire me and wow do I need it! You've been there-you feel like your falling with nothing to grab ahold of. So-since you first discovered the A he never went back to her? How were you so sure? I feel like my H is telling the truth but yet its' so hard after yrs of lying to really believe-I'm afraid to. I could not live with hin if he was lying either as much as I love him with all of my heart. He sounds very much like your H. I don't think anyone is going to be harder on himself that he is. I think that is why he started smoking at age 48, and drives with out fastening his seatbelt-seems like small stuff but it means something-they are ashamed and have deep feelings of guilt. My fear was those things meant he was still having the A. I don't think he could do that to me again or his kids. He also is a man of integrity that no one-I MEAN NO ONE beleived he was capable of this. I have to look to me also for my part. HE still was dead wrong for his choice, but I was dead wrong fro taking him titally for granted and shuttting him almost completely out of my life. The wounds were deep,a nd this OW was there to sooth him. HE never wanted this to happen. He says if he could take it ALL back he would. HE is not in love with the OW-she just met needs I wsa not and he wanted so bad for the good things to be with me but did not know what to do. ALl it took was me confronting him in C,because someone saw them l IT was almost like he wanted to get caught. She has not p;ace in our lives and he would never marry her or even live with her. She was a substitute for what he wanted with me. Still....the trust comes ever so slow. Patience is right my friend. Thank you for sharing-It has given me new hope that I have needed so badly. I may post to you on bad days or when I'm feeleling overwhelmed. OUr lives are so much alike in how we handled it. I too am on MEDICATION-without is I never would have survived. I am off work on disability becasue my panic and anxiety were too much.I am seeing a therapist once or twice a week, and we go to therapy as a couple every other week. I am ever soooo slow helaiong this brokeness but I feel like you that we willbe stronger and I can love him like I never did before. He has to learn to trust that too. I'm so glad you posted-I am grateful-maybe God put you in front of me becsaue I needed to hear this. I will let you know how things turn out. Gratefully, Rachael M. (wouldn't it be a hoot if we really were realated!)
We were fortunate because we moved 800 miles away from the OW. One way I knew he ended the emotional part was that when she contacted him twice after he broke it off, he told me and showed me the letters. We chose to ignore them which was the best choice for us.
He also confessed that his closest female friend let him know that she had feelings for him long ago and that he allowed her to say disrespectful things about me from right after we married. For that reason I feel like he never really married me. Oddly he did exactly what the man I dated before him did only he has been such a better liar. That's what really scares me.
One of his finest hours was when he shared a very flirtateous letter this friend wrote him where she also told him that he has seemed sad for so long and she remembers when he visited her he was so happy. With my encouragement and a little help with how to handle it, he wrote her back in the most lovely words as only he can and accurately told her that the reason he was so happy when he visited her was that he and I had decided to marry and he was on cloud nine. It was one of the best letters I ever read. This friend is still apologizing everytime we see her and his body language shows me he is serious about the limits he has set with her. For the first year and a half he tried hard. I tried hard also and still am.
Then a new women came along and I told him I was uncomfortable with the way they related to him. I asked him to change the frequency of contact with one of them. He flatly refused and I felt like he was puting me last again. A whole series of hurts followed that. That's when I had to start meds. Now I'm off them and doing OK. We do well for a while then poorly. Looks like I have to learn how to love him without giving him my heart because he just keeps breaking it. Then he acts all pitiful and guilty like I should feel sorry for him. It really is maddening but I am NOT going to let him get to me. My life is just too precious.
He liked Retrouvaille when we went, but stopped dialoging after a month or so. Now he says dialoging is artificial and, one of his favorite put-downs, "formulaic". It is what you make it but he can't see that. I have done poorly at keeping myself in check. I tend to be completely transparent and like to be that way but it isn't helpful in this situation. I need to love him from afar for now. I'm getting better at it. We've had some happy times and have created some good memories. He is trying to save his career, at least I hope that is what he is doing, and works all hours. We have very little time together. In many ways he is acting like he did during the affair but he adamantly denies any such thing. I'll keep working but hope to high heavens that like the Who song says, I "don't get fooled again". If I do, oh well, I gave it my best and I'm out of here. Sure hope I find out sooner than last time if that is the case!
I have found a new life in this new place and want to put my energy there. Time to move on. I'll be kind and loving but the limits are coming down. Hope we get through this phase and on to a better one soon. Wish the news were better but maybe it will be some day.
Hi 2learn: Your H sounds very similar to mine. I’ve been thinking about starting a thread here but am not quite “brave” or confident enough that we are actually “Piecing”. We are scheduled to go to Retrouvaille on the 20th of Sept.. You can catch the long version of my story in the MLC Forum. I think it’s called: “The Long Road Home- an MLC journey.” We just bought a house together. We are still not sleeping in the same bedroom. (no sex, either ) (I wrote the latest update on Snodderly’s thread about page 6 or so.) I am worried about my H’s reaction to Retrouvaille. He hates organized religion and dogma. What can you say regarding that?
I think things are coming along with you and your H. I know it feels so slow but from what I’ve read from your thread, (I just sat an read the whole thing) things do seem to be improving. Keep up the good work. Since I took all that time to read your thread, gotta make this short. Will try to check back later.
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. Wouldn't be surprised if others have had this experience. What have you done to learn to trust yourself?
). This am he talked a long time about work before he left and as usual acted like I was keeping him. Think my comments were helpful with perhaps a few off base as usual. I tried to playfully shoo him out the door but he didn't completely get the humor. 
... 
) (I wrote the latest update on Snodderly’s thread about page 6 or so.)