I haven't posted to you in awhile. I'm not quite sure why I can't seem to come up with something worthwile to say.
As to your realization that you were an accomplice... I think you may be right. Seems like his pattern was to beat himself up over his actions and wait for you to rescue him from himself.
The latest EA was probably nothing special to him. More of a fantasy than anything. No harm done as long as he didn't act on it, or you didn't find out.
But you did find out. When that happened, he felt like krap, but you calmed him down.
I don't think this was wrong, but as of now, he has to start taking responsibility, not only for his own actions, but his own thoughts.
I don't believe a person has to tell his/her spouse everything. If an EA passes into oblivion, then it was only a passing fancy, and telling your spouse would only provoke bad feelings.
I've posted it before, but I'll say it again. This is what your H should have done about the EA.
So now, it's up to him to put that in the past. Your role, as I see it, is simply to allow him to do this.
That doesn't mean placating him about it. It just means that you let it slide into the past.
I know you had an hard time doing that wrt the PA. I think the thread where I found you was called "getting over it."
But FWIW, I don't think the EA went far enough for you to fret over it as much as you did for the PA.
I also think you're doing a wonderful job of "getting over it" once again.
Rachael,
FWIW, here's my take on your sit:
I think that the change in your H's sexual behavior isn't as sudden as you think. He may have appeared to be fine since he came back, but I suspect that his guilt and suffering self esteem after the A put a damper on his libido long before it became evident to you.
I think that it has nothing to do with OW in that I don't think he covets her anymore. I think it has everything to do with OW in that he has to get her out of his mind before he can enjoy sex with you.
His memory of her is no longer a pleasant one, and he has to get over that memory. If memories of her are conjured up when he has sex with you, how do you think he feels? I would say, not very good.
This has been going on since he returned to you, and he tried very hard to bury her in the past.
The apparent suddenness of all of this is only because he tried real hard, and it didn't work.
He'll try again, Rachael. He just needs a little time to get the guilt out of his system.
Thanks Andy-I'm hopin your right on this one-especially that he does not covet her anymore. Idon;t think he does either but 2 1/2 yrs is a long time to be in a R withsomeone. SHe was OBVIOUSLY meetting some pretty heavy duty needs in him. What makes it all go away so suddenly-I mean the desire to work on the M and then the decision to dump her? My fear is she still is in him. That's what I can't seem to get past.That and I still don't trust him as far as I could throw him most days just because the betrayal felt so HUGE to me and lasted so long. HE did initiate over the wekend. I have no idea if its becasue he really wanted me or just felt it was the "right " thing to do. ALl this will take a long time to sort out and inthe meantime I will probably drive you all nuts with my obessions and mistrust. I'm just not as graciuous as alot of people on this board. I'm damn mad he did this to us and I don't mind saying it. He sounds so darn convicing though and you Want so bad to believe them, and youwonder if your being played for a fool or if he really has come back and is trustworthy. Youjust don;t know and it's hard not knowing. Rachael M.
I do not fret over this EA as much as I did over the PA, certainly. Although, knowing that they talked of a future together is very disturbing to me. Yes, I know it was all fantasy, but it still hurts to think of your spouse talking that way with another person.
Last night we had a family meeting. H wanted the kids to know he had kept his promise to see a counselor. He also gave them the opportunity to ask any questions that they might still have. #1 son was out of town when we "reconciled" and had plenty to ask his father. #2 son really just wants to forget it all happened and continue to believe ours is the "perfect" family.
H answered his sons' questions as best he could at the time. He also had so sit and listen to them tell him that they'd lost respect for him and would never think of him in the same way. They did tell him they loved him, but the disappointment was so excruicatingly evident it even made me wince. I felt a bit of hatred for my H at that point -- I'd hate anyone who would hurt my children so. I also felt compassion for him. What a painful thing to have to hear from one's children.
I told the kids that the OW had called their father at work the other day and that dad had told me about it and what the conversation consisted of. I wanted them to know that he was keeping his promise to me/us about that. That made them very happy. They do not trust him at all at this point.
They asked to be kept "in the loop" regarding OR and how it relates to the family (them). They also asked to know how things progressed in counselling. They were told it may take a long time. They understood that and are willing to wait for their "real" dad to surface again.
So, tonight my H begins his journey -- finally. He was nervous before leaving for the C session, but I think also a little excited to get started. He really, really wants help in dealing with all this.
Rachael,
I have been reading your posts on different threads regarding your anger and anxiety. All perfectly normal. Yes, it certainly seems unfair that those of us who have been betrayed seem to be left with doing all the work in picking up the pieces of OR; but, in fact, are we not the stronger ones in our prespective R's? After all, it is a weak person who commits adultry.
I'm sure you're thinking you're not very strong right now. Boy, do I know that feeling. But, take it from me and everyone else on this board, you ARE the strong one. You are here fighting for your M in the face of extreme adversity. That takes immense strength and fortitude. You were given this assignment for a reason. YOU are the one with moral character and strength. You are the one who must help you H regain his character and strength.
Anger? By all means. You have every right and reason to be furious -- and you must let that anger out and then let it go. I promise you that if you don't you will only be hurting yourself. I was in such pain for so long that I couldn't even find my anger. With the recent discovery of my H's final betrayal, I found that anger. It is a good thing. I really needed to find it and feel it and then try to release it. I know if I had not that sometime in the future it would have surfaced and destroyed me.
I go from periods of feeling very optimistic to feeling great anger to feeling apathy. Apathy was what I was feeling this past weekend. At times I felt I really didn't give a rat's ass about my M or my H. That feeling has passed. I'm getting my PMA back on tract. However, I fully expect to run the whole gammit of feelings again, 'round and 'round we go, before this saga is finally over.
I want to give you a bit of advice that has greatly helped me. You need to find the strength within yourself to be able to let your H go. Not figuratively -- at least not right now. But you need to have the courage to be able to say to yourself, "whatever happens happens. I will be okay." Become your own person. Don't be afraid of losing your H. Your happiness does not depend on him.
Rachael, go back to work. You need to stop putting so much energy into this. I feel you are pushing your H away from you. You're coming off as desparate and clingy -- very unattractive qualities. Let your H think he's not the key to your happiness. That's way too much pressure for anyone to bear. Let him know you have a life beyond him and that if he should choose to be with the OW that you will be okay -- because you will Rachael, you will.
matilda, wonderful advice. i also think it shows great promise that your h started counciling and had a family meeting. he is facing up to his responsibility and getting help. this is so good for everyone. your story is an inspiration. lisa
Mattie-I think its wonderful how your H is taking the responsibility to sit down with your sons and explain to them what he's dong and letting them air thier feelings about it. That is a healthy way to handle it. My H as far as I know has not talked any more about the A with our kids. He says he knows he should talk to the youngest one (16),but I'm sure is so ashamed that it is hard. He did talk to all of them after I found out. He cried with my daughter. I thaink he will talk to them at some point-I think he is dealing with his own pain and shame so much now he odes not know what to say-just show them by being faithful and loving to me. He just is not a talker. In C the therapist told us the importance of not "sweeping" this under the rug. I know he just wants to forget it ever happened and wants me to forget it too, but has said he knows that it will take time for me to trust him again. I do know that I have to get into life again. Not with that job though. I hated it so much. I am going to use my disability leave until its over either in sept or Oct and then go back to school in the spring to become an LPN. I always loved school and it will really give me a focus and I will be doing something I love and feel worth my itme and energy. <y job sucked everything I had out of me and it was so bad on top of what I had to deal with here with the A. I was so afraid I'd be left and have to stay in that job. Getting my nursing degree will help ensure that if he ever does leave I will at least be doing something that I don't dread getting up for every morning. I think he's ok with supporting me while I go-I have stock money I can fall back on if I need to. I'm so happy for you and that your H is doing everything possible to make good on his word. These are good men underneath-we know that or we would not fight so hard to keep our M in tact. Rachael M.
Matilda, I have been talking to my H about the things that have been happening to you. It sure gave him something to think about (something I don't think he ever really had before) when I told him that your S's knew about their dad's infidelity. I had mentioned to him before that I never told anyone about the A because I knew that the boys would lose respect for him but I don't think it really sunk in at the time. I think when I told him that your H's boys knew it really hit him..the look on his face was very inlightening!
I admire your S's for talking to their dad that way and telling him just how they feel. It's too bad that your H had to hear that they have lost respect for him but it also had to make him feel good to know that they still love him and are there for him. I admire the fact that he is seeking the help he so desperately needs. It sounds like this time he is totally and completely committed to you,your children and your R!!! I am so happy for you and I pray every night that things continue to move forward for you and your family!! You deserve all the happiness in the world!!
You "hung in there" for him when a lot of women would have said "that's enough,I quit"!! I admire you for that!! I hope that your H realizes what a treasure he has in you!! I know your children respect and admire you and I know that they realize just what "real love" is all about from seeing how you have handled everything you have had to go through!
My dear friends, thank you all for your support and kind words.
Pat, my kids actually think their mom is "awesome." They are the ones that asked me to give dad another chance. However, they told me they would understand if I felt I couldn't and that they would support me in whatever decision I made. They are truely the awesome ones. For being 16 and 17, they weren't thinking about themselves for a change. They wanted their mom to be happy. Great, great kids!!
Rachael, I think it's terrific that you're going back to school. What a great way to keep focused on yourself and moving forward. Don't fret about the A anymore. Trust has to start somewhere, and it starts with you. Realize that you cannot control your H's actions. If he decided to go back to the OW there is little you can do about it. Stop making yourself crazy. Focus on making yourself so darned attractive and appealing (not just physically) that he won't be ABLE to think of anyone but you. Have fun with him -- make him laugh.
Last night's C session went well for H. He liked the C and made another appt for next week. Actually, last night was more of a fact-gathering meeting. Hopefully, the real work begins next week.
The C did ask my H if he thought he was depressed. H said he didn't think so (interesting! He told me a couple of days ago he did think he might be depressed). The C said, "Well, you're not a happy person." So, the C asked questions and then told my H that he fit ALL the criteria for depression (wow, stop the presses, folks!!). Next week they will delve into that more to try and ascertain if H needs meds. The C said somewhere down the road we will need marriage counselling (gee, you mean 9 months wasn't enough?), but that H needs individual therapy for the time being.
So, it has begun! People will think I'm nuts to say this, but I'm proud of my H. This was a huge step for him.
I have already noticed a big difference in my H since he made the "decision" to love me and be totally committed to our M 3 weeks ago. He certainly is not a happy man -- gotta work through his issues before happiness can be achieved -- but, I feel we're much more connected than before. He is "present" with me. I'm not really sure how to explain it, but there is almost a sense of relief coming from him. And when he says ILY it's with a warmth and sincerity that is hard to mistrust.
Many people would wonder how I could trust my H when he said ILY. The only thing I can say is it is a "feeling" I get -- an intuition. Those of you who have been with me for a while know that I've felt for a long time that something wasn't right in my situation. I kept "waiting for the other shoe to drop." I felt my H just wasn't doing the things he should be doing if he were truely wanting to piece our M back together. These were all feelings -- intuition. I was right. I think I'm right in my assessment now, too. Time will tell.
I say its great he went to C on his own accord becasue HE wanted to get help for HIM. Ya gotta love that move. Positive to say the least. I know what you meam about the "feelings" you get. I get them too. Mine are all messed up with the lack of trust so sometimes I don't feel as though I can trust him at all, but the OVERALL feeling is that I can. The way he's been acting it can't be a lie-nobody, even a louse would act and say the things he's been doing and saying and have it be a lie. He couldn't live with himslef I wouldn't think. I woud be able to see patterns of behavior adn the only patterns I see are positive for the most part with a few days of distancing once ina while buit not too often. We'll see if my theory of him distancing every week on Tuesday or wed. holds up. SO far he's been great today so we'll see how tomorrow goes. You do have great kids Mattie, what would we do without our kids to help keep us strong? Keep us posted! Rachael M.
H called me just 10 minutes after leaving home to say he was stuck in traffic. Called when he got to work and told me he'd be on a conference call for a while (already knew that). Called me when he got off the call to tell me about it. Called an hour later on my cell to find out where I was. Told him I'd just stopped the the credit union. He said, "taking care of business, huh?" Yep. He likes that I keep the household running and told me how much he appreciates the work it involves.
I asked him why he called (that time on the cell). "Oh, I don't know. Nothing really to report. Already told you everything." Then is other line was ringing and he had to go -- said ILY (big deal for him to say it at work!!).
An hour later when I returned home, the phone was ringing -- it was my H. Just checking in. Do I want to go to see a movie tonight? Huh? He's really tired and may come home early. I called him back a few minutes ago with some info re #1 son. We talked for a couple minutes and when we said good-bye I got another ILY. Twice from work!!
Like the theme song for "Good Morning America" says: good things are happening. My (His) heart is opening.
Dare I begin to wonder if he is finally really free to be all mine again?
Just enjoy every single minute and every single ILY. I think he is going WAY above and beyond the call of getting it right after getting it sooo wrong. I am thrilled for you!!! You've got to be floating on cloud nine-I think he's really back Mattie this time. A movie in the middle of the week, and coming home early-too much! Bask Mattie, bask! Rachael M.
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