"I have no intention of burying the past. At least not wrt the lessons I have learned. All I’m referring to is that the present is so different than the past, and I want to use the present as a reference point for building our future. I want to bury the bad feelings – both hers and mine – and I don’t want to periodically dig ‘em up, dust ‘em off, and rehash ‘em."
Hi Andy-I really like what you say here....I wish it applied to my sit. You see, H says that I bring up old stuff and he doesn't appreciate it. I know I do. The reason I do is because I do not have any resolution to them. It's like my feelings get brushed aside and and I don't get any thing 'solved' or 'fixed' or 'changed'. Things start to build up and eventually I blow my top. Yes, I have explained this to him. He has nothing to say. I really want those 'learned lessons'. I am not a stupid woman (stupid is as stupid does) but I cannot figure out a way to get this resolution I so desire. I am trying, not too effectively, to resign myself to the fact that I may never get it. It's usually only once a month (cycle) that things get overwhelming, I have only blown my top 2-3 times in the past 6 months. Usually I just go dark for a week or so and he seems fine with that. Thyroid isn't the problem-had that well tested in conjunction with a cyst that was removed...I think it's a cycle thing, either that or I'm just plain nuts!
Gonna think about what you said some more and try and find those elusive resolutions....who knows, maybe they're right there staring back at me-like I can't see the forrest for the trees....
I'm rereading DB. What you are doing is making the solution the problem. You internalize 'til you can't hold it in and then blow; and are frustrated when that doesn't bring resolution. It doesn't work but you do it again and again and again. Your solution becomes part of the problem. Michele calls that "more of the same".
I spent about 14 years of our 28 year marriage internalizing then blowing. I always -ALWAys-felt better afterwards 'cause I'd cleared the air. What I was clueless about was that my H wasn't listening and was just agreeing w me to get me to shut-up.
So-o-o-o-o-o-o. . .guess who isn't doing any internalizing until she blows anymore?
I'd like to encourage you to think of 'something' different.
Probably your behavior affects his behavior and his behavior affects your behavior. It doesn't matter who started it , you are doing that circular loop Michele talks about. What small change could you introduce that would be a different reaction on your part. Remember the butterfly effect?
I used to internalize until I blew up. W always told me that she would rather get things out in the open. So, eventually, I decided to be “completely open.” Woooops. Not such a great idea either. So. What do I do now? I suck it in and never let it out. I’ve found that “honestly” expressing my negative feelings only causes resentment – whether expressed immediately or in a blow-out. So what’s the point? I know that this attitude makes my W sound intolerant, but isn’t that the way we all behave? Thinking back on it, I never used to accept our differences very easily. No wonder she got her back up.
I know that people will say (and have already told me) that I could be honest if I phrased things properly. Maybe that would have worked at one point, but once the pattern is established, changing the wording doesn’t change the perception of finger-pointing.
Of course sucking it in has a downside. Like I posted earlier, sometimes it affects my sleep. Sometimes it ties my stomach in a knot. As-if behavior has – in some cases – helped my PMA. Sometimes it’s not so good. Guess there’s no perfect answer.
And, I guess I'm looking at the long term. I'm still hoping that eventually, I won't have to act as-if. I'm hoping that the things that I have to suck in are just small stuff that shouldn't be brought up anyway.
Did the situation change enough for you to change or did you change enough for the situation to change.
Did the situation change enough for you to change or did you change enough for the situation to change.
Did the situation change enough for you to change or did you change enough for the situation to change.
Infinity
You still ultra analyze and I still talk too much
ME2's discussion grabbed me tho (per usual - hi doll). Cause that was what dragged out the Swan Song. I couldn't talk about anything to even start thinking about the next plane. He was back into protecting himself and forget it. Been working too hard and too long to even listen to it.
So two things. One - You bring up the past because there's no resolution. This last go round seems to have made me a real zipit sis. I won't talk. I won't let him talk. Period. Believe it or not, this is really bothering him. He likes it to a point but it's bugging him quite a bit because my user's manual has changed and he doesn't know what to do.
Two - Is it really that you keep bringing up the past (IGgy always said living in the past) or does the past include current actions? Cause to IGgy, anything 10 minutes ago is the past.
Gonna update my old thread in the old location. I don't fit in any of the specialty sections. People would argue I don't fit in anywhere ...
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: Did the situation change enough for you to change or did you change enough for the situation to change.
Probably both. Doesn’t really matter. I wasn’t so much analyzing as just musing. I’ve seen sitch’s on these boards that haven’t come as far as mine, and I don’t think I could handle things as well if the sitch didn’t improve. Of course, it wouldn’t have improved if I hadn’t handled it… Infinity.
But to be completely honest, though I think I'm handling it on the outside (i.e.: doing what works), it's not always so easy on the inside.
I have to concur with what Andy said....this keeping things inside stuff is a huge 180+ for me, see, before in OR, I told H everything. I thought that's the way marriages were. I kept pretty much NOTHING from him. It caused him to overload-this was a major part of why he had A, at least that's what I've been able to figure out. He was unable at that time to "be" there for me and be my fixer-even tho I told him over and over I only needed him to listen and tell me he loved me. My problem is that while I can keep things in that bother me, it only lasts for a time and then I over-flow and it all comes spilling out. I am a very reaction-ist, meaning that I usually have an immediate and passionate reaction to things, a lot of the time my mouth would start to function before my brain had fully engaged.
So in following the DB practices/principles I decided to try something different. Most of the time it works like a charm, H has noticed that I am calmer and not so reactionary to most things. I just can't seem to keep it up for very long which makes me wonder if the 'change' I've made in and of myself is just that-a change. Or am I just going through the motions? Like Phoe says (hey there girlfriend-good to see you out and about again!), I am not sure if the situation has changed exactly, but it is pretty apparent that I have not changed enough for the situation to change. Like the merry-go-round Andy spoke of on Matilda's (hey to you too-I know you're out there!) thread.
I have tried the no OR talks, but for some reason I just can't keep it up. In the early part of OR we told each other everything. I don't know when or how that changed-but it did. Now that I am not speaking my mind so much, it bothers H. He gets frustrated that I won't finish sentences or thoughts, for fear of bringing up 'old stuff'. (my fear-so I just drop things) I have not initiated an OR talk since the melt-down on our anniv. It was fueled by a loss I just experienced, or rather, just learned of recently that hit me in a very unexpected way. My first love, the man I was going to marry and had lived with for a time in my 20's, passed away in Sep of 2000. I just found out. It hit me pretty hard, which was unexpected. He and I have a LOT of history together and even more unresolved issues...'nother LONG story. H was pretty understanding and compassionate about it, even tho in the past he has expressed a great deal of jealousy about my e-fiance'. There was just too much 'stuff' I'd been holding in and I let fly. Shit happens.
So now that I realize that the holding things in deal isn't working, and the telling everything doesn't work-I need to explore and find my happy medium...much like Andy says.
How do we get there? It's a very personal and individual ideology and I'm sure it's gonna take a lot of time, trial and error.
Any suggestions? I know, if it doesn't work-try something else....right?!
quote:Excerpt from DivorceBusting: The worst advice a newlywed couple could be given is: “It is important to be open and honest with your feelings at all times.” Although the open expression of feelings is a prerequisite for any successful marriage, there are definitely is a time and place for it. Intense feelings often cloud perceptions, making clear assessments of problematic situations difficult.
We want OR to be a safe place where we can express our feelings. We feel we should be able to vent when we feel frustrated, and our spouse will understand. There are two things wrong with this.
Firstly, negative feelings beget negative feelings. I have a book (forget the title) that discusses the use of SBT to fight depression. In it, the author notes that when we are depressed, we want someone to sympathize with our hurt. But, whenever we lean too heavily on someone for this, they back away.
Misery loves company, but company doesn’t love misery.
The second thing that goes wrong is that our spouse will not understand. Therefore, the way they react isn’t what we want, and we get even more frustrated.
The other extreme is when we keep everything to ourselves. Going dark. If our spouse doesn’t even know we have issues, then how can they even try to sympathize or change their behavior. Sometimes, they would be willing to change to accommodate us, but don’t know what to do. Even worse, they start trying to guess what the problem is, and either act inappropriately or simply resent the fact that you don’t trust them.
I want to get to a place in my R where I will keep transient negativity to myself. I want to be able to bring up larger issues with my W in a non-confrontational way. I want to be listened to even if she doesn’t agree with me, and I want her to have an open mind about what I say.
And I want W to feel the same way.
This begs the question… How do I get there?
The only solution that I can think of is to act as-if this is already the way things are. At this point, W will not play the as-if game, but I’m hoping that it’ll rub off. The biggest impediment to this working is that I’m way too sensitive right now. I can act as-if something isn’t bothering me, but it eats me up inside.
But how to do it and MEAN it eludes me still. I'm pretty good for a while...but then whenever something bugs me and I act as if it really does not, while I search for the time/place/method of bringing it up, H is fine. When I do manage to find the time/place/method of broaching the subject in a non-threatening way (we have actually done this once or twice) the problem is that there is still NO RESOLUTION. H just says "I know" or "I don't know" or "nothing". It seems that of all the things I've tried, nothing works. I get so frustrated sometimes at his lack of anything.
But how to do it and MEAN it eludes me still. I'm pretty good for a while...but then whenever something bugs me and I act as if it really does not bug me to while I search for the time/place/method to bring it up I also get eaten up inside. When I do manage to find the time/place/method of broaching the subject in a non-threatening way (we have actually done this once or twice) the problem is that there is still NO RESOLUTION. It's like I tell him how I feel, ask how he feels and I get no answer or "I don't know" and then he acts like 'ok, your feelings are noted' and that's it. And, yes, I have asked him specifically to do things, I've also tried to let him come to a decision himself-which he does not (or can not?). I have tried the 'when you do XXXXX, it makes me feel XXXX and I think I'd feel better is you were to XXXX' or 'what do you think would help me not to feel XXXX'...still the same pat answers: "I don't know" or "nothing". It seems that of all the things I've tried, nothing works. I get so frustrated sometimes at his lack of anything.
One of his soldiers' wives died today, long battle with breast cancer-it had been coming for a while. He was there with the family to provide whatever support (he could) that they needed. I asked him on the phone how his soldier was doing and his reply was 'well, how's he supposed to be doing-his wife died'. I had to bite my tongue NOT to say, 'gee H I don't know-why don't you tell me how you'd feel' but I didn't because I know it's not a fair question and it is rather morbid. Thinking of myself when his soldier is in so much pain....besides, before my surgery for my throat I told him that if anything were to happen to me I did NOT want 'that woman' anywhere NEAR my kids-I wanted them to go to my parents if he chose to go back to her. He was pretty pissed. Understandably so, that really was a pretty shitty thing for me to say-but I needed to say it. It's how I felt-who knows what could have happened? I don't like to leave things un-said which is another one of my 180's, I have been trying not to open my mouth in that way.
Ah well, I am rambling now. I am overanalyzing this WAY tooooo much, y'think? (hey Phoe-I know you're out there....wouldn't you agree??!!)
going home to hug my kids and my H....he's had a rough day....
I guess the next step to acting as-if is believing as-if. In other words, acceptance of what we can’t change.
You act as-if something doesn’t bother you until you can “manage to find the time/place/method of broaching the subject in a non-threatening way.” Then you broach the subject, and if there is no solution forthcoming, accept it.
Sounds simple, doesn’t it. But… if you’re talking about your spouse’s behavior, you know they can change it if they want to! How do you accept it when they won’t change their behavior?
The tough part is accepting our spouse’s weaknesses.
Growth is a detox process, as our weakest, darkest places are sucked up to the surface in order to be released. Often, upon seeing the weaknesses in each other, we have the tendency to go "Yuck!" and walk away on some level. But often it is not a change in partners but rather a change in perception that delivers us to the love we seek. When we shift our view of the purpose of intimacy -- from serving our own needs as we define them to serving a larger process of healing -- then an entirely new opportunity presents itself. Our wounds have been brought forward, not to block the experience of love, but to serve it. It is in the forgiveness of our weaknesses that we are healed of them, and the tenderness of a forgiven heart is a tenderness that will ultimately heal the world.
--From Enchanted Love : The Mystical Power of Intimate Relationships, by Marianne Williamson. � February 2001
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