These marriages were/are supposed to be 50/50. Unfortunately sometimes with WAS's and cheating SO's it seems that the left-behinds are up to more like 60-70%.
I like what you say, Andy, about there being a difference in the needs of our spouses, some are definitely ours to fulfill, others we share and others we leave very much alone.
I think what Kent was saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong Kent, that he does not feel responsible (anymore) for his W's need to define herself. In other words, he is no longer putting pressure on himself (and maybe her too) to be 'how' she defines herself.
Am I confusing? I don't think I'm getting at what I'm trying to say.....when I read what Kent said I realized 'yeah, I know what you mean'....for a long time I had defined myself in terms of my H...his soulmate-his best friend-lover, and took great comfort in my realization of myself-through him. I naively thought he did the same...I know now that he does not, and probably never did.
Unrealistic, I realize that now. Unfortunately it took his A to get me to see how unfair my perceptions were. That's a big part of why I was (and I'm trying really hard not to be) angry-but more so with myself, I think.
I need to define myself in terms of ME. It is frustrating tho because as I have mentioned before, I still sometimes feel very split in who I am...the strong independant one who has the world by the horns...and the other one who still bears the wounds inflicted by the betrayal.
Yeah, Me2. I read Kent’s comments the same way, and I agree with you/him (assuming we aren’t both misinterpreting what he said). I guess I was just trying to expand on what he said, rather than contradict.
As to you, don’t be angry – especially with yourself. It’s wasted energy. (Yeah, easy to say, eh?)
Ya, you both misunderstood me correctly. I take resposibility for meeting the needs my W wants me to meet and I do it with a smile .
However, I no longer take resposibility for determining what that is. For instance. Since you brought up the sex thing. My marriage vows said that we would be faithfull to one another. I do not assume that to mean W will give me sex whenever I want it. Her Libido does not match mine. If W wants to boogie, I am happy to oblige. I used to pursue her all the time until it became an obvious problem. Now I let her be the pursuer (usually). When I was still trying to figure this issue out, I wondered if I pursued so much sex because it was what I wanted or if it was because it was what I perceived she wanted. W was the one who set the minimum quota when we married.
The difference now is that I don't worry about it any more. If W has a sexual itch that needs to be scratched, she needs to take responsibility for initiating and visa versa.
I no longer try to anticipate what she thinks or means. I literally drove myself nuts on this. I have the shrink invoices to prove it.
If W has a need to reinvent herself, again, it is her problem to initiate it and to keep me informed.
What I am trying to say friends is that my guessing days are over. Don't get me wrong, I would hunt down Bin Laden for her. But she needs to ask.
This brings me back to the point when I know W and I began the rebuilding phase. It is when she said the words "I want to try". I knew what these words meant and it was very clear what I needed to do once W said them. That does'nt make the process easy. But, at least I knew she wanted to try. Not many on this BB are in that position. Not many have heard those words and I'm not even sure how many here have spouses that know what "trying" means.
Me2, I am certain we can teach our spouse what trying means. We just need to move like we are walking on ricepaper and they need to want to try.
W and I talk OR periodically now. They are usually breif and too the point. Kinda like a checkup. Again, I learned the hard way not to preannounce these discussions and keep them very short. I stick to that policy even if W initiates OR. Sometimes I even say "lets talk about it some other time". Oh how sweet it is!
quote:Originally posted by KentS: However, I no longer take resposibility for determining what that is. For instance. Since you brought up the sex thing. My marriage vows said that we would be faithfull to one another. I do not assume that to mean W will give me sex whenever I want it. Her Libido does not match mine. If W wants to boogie, I am happy to oblige. I used to pursue her all the time until it became an obvious problem. Now I let her be the pursuer (usually). When I was still trying to figure this issue out, I wondered if I pursued so much sex because it was what I wanted or if it was because it was what I perceived she wanted. W was the one who set the minimum quota when we married.
The difference now is that I don't worry about it any more. If W has a sexual itch that needs to be scratched, she needs to take responsibility for initiating and visa versa.
My major issue right now, is the “visa versa” part. I pursued so much that I turned W right off. Not just sexually either. Right now, if I want any kind of intimacy or closeness, I must hold myself back to a “reasonable” level. That means I don’t initiate sex. Touching is limited to a brush of the foot while we’re in bed. No public displays of affection. I asked for, and received a “date” for my birthday (June). We’ve only been out alone together 2 or 3 times since then. She just doesn’t have time for me.
W told me that we could work on our R after I got over my depression, and I haven’t brought it up since then. I know that she thinks that compromize would mean that she has to compromize her independence, and she won’t let me “do that to her again.”
quote:Originally posted by KentS: This brings me back to the point when I know W and I began the rebuilding phase. It is when she said the words "I want to try". I knew what these words meant and it was very clear what I needed to do once W said them. That does'nt make the process easy. But, at least I knew she wanted to try. Not many on this BB are in that position. Not many have heard those words and I'm not even sure how many here have spouses that know what "trying" means.
until I can convince W that trying doesn’t mean submitting, I don’t think I can do much more to express my needs.
Ah, the magnificent symmetry in the dances we dance with each other. That’s why DB works—it’s all based on psychological physics! If we can just calmly step back and watch, centered in ourselves, knowing that we are each and all ultimately alone any way, then we have a chance of figuring out how to love these other utterly fascinating humans. I think that’s true not only for our spouses but for all the important people in our lives. It probably even applies to how we interact with each other on a macro level as well.
I think we're learning.
[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: alottolearn ]
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