As I've had time to cool down from yesterday's talk. I've come to realize that the majority of it was probably more venting past hurts than the reality of today. There were some misconceptions cleared up and truly the conversation went well. W seemed to want to be around me afterwards.
I will be extremely diligent and will do everything I can to not argue my point even in the subtlest of ways but I think these are issues we have mostly resolved or are at least well on the path to it.
I think that there is still conflict in her but I think that if I lovingly detach that it will fade away.
I've noticed other positive things lately. Especially in the way she talks. Things continue to get better.
This has certainly given me a whole lot of insight into the problem and why we have been in a holding pattern so long.
My job requires me to play alpha male once in a while. Last night was one of those times. We spoke about it this morning and she said with a smile. It's fine as long as you do it with a smile. I think that pertains to a lot more than my job.
I 2nd what your W said, how terms are applied to men and women who do the same thing but is viewed different because of gender. I believe it is very much a fact. No answer from me though on what to do about it, for me I deal with it as it comes. Are you thinking W is resentful about this? being held to different standards?
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
It would seem that she is, although maybe she's getting over it and learning to deal with it to her advantage. I don't know.
I do know that her C was very resentful of men. She had some influence in their sessions. I suspect that her ex husband may have been percieved as a know it all. He's a c too but has a phd while she has a LFT. There seemed to be some animosity between them about marriage ideas.
My wife has mentioned things about learning to get what she wants from a womans position, especially in our business which has been very male dominated in the past.
I don't know it's kinda strange. Sometimes she'll talk about it being a man's world as if she's some man hater and then she'll talk about how so and so is such a man hater and how stupid that is. Baffling and most of what she says when she's defending her position (and I make sure that doesn't happen often) absolutely runs counter to her ideals. Alien stuff I guess.
The one thing that really bugs me is she'll use " so my happiness doesn't matter" line. This is something she learned from her C. She must get out of the marriage and pursue her own happiness.
The strange thing is that I think she is very happy now. I just don't think she's realized it yet. She seems to really enjoy life lately. But seems to think she must pursue happiness. Just a bit bqaffling to me.
ok just flipping through change your man (seeing as how I haven't read it) it says something about being a product of your childhood theory
this is what it says thats how he grew up another reason you might believe your partner is incapable of real change is that you've convinced yourself that people are merely products of their upbringing. According to this theroy, as impressionable children we observe our parents, how they interact with each other, how they treat us, and we mimic what we see.
it goes on about this a bit and and then says we are definately influenced by our upbringing but researchers have become fascinated with the question of why is it that some people growing up under extremely adverse conditions such as poverty, overcrowding, vilonce, drug abuse and emotional or phyusical abuse become debilitated by their experiences while others rise above adversity. it continues Broad epidemiological studies, they say, don't explain why one girl, sexually abused by a relative, become and unwed mother or a prostitue while another becomes Oprah Winfrey or May Angelou. Retrospective studies can't explain why one man raised in a harsh crowded household in impoverished Richmond, California, becomes addicted to crack cocaine and dies of AIDS while his younger brother - Christopher Darden - graduates from law school and goes on to prosecute OJ Simpson - its time they see to see what the Dardens and Winfreys of the world have to teach us.
Stevn Wolin has written a book called The Resilient Self: how survivors in troubled families rise above diversity, which states that although children growing up with alchoholic families have a higher change of developing alcoholism than those in the general population, 70% will not become alcoholic. They also say that growing up in a physically abusive family does not guarantee you will abuse your own children, far from it 70% of those whoe were abused will NOT become abusive parents. This is what I have personally believed for a long time - I have never subscribed to the product of your past theory - and always felt that someone ought to look at those individuals who did not become a product of their past but became the total opposite so neither of you are your history or family
now I just found this awesome quote for eveyones fridge door in the book After he tied 9,999 times to perfect the light bulb and hadn't succeeded some asked Tomas Edison if he was going to have ten thousand failure he answered I didn't fail I just discovered another way not to invent the electric light bulb.
now there is another bit called You Take Over most women tell me that n the early years of their relationshop things were better, their partners were more involved, responsibilities more equally divided then somehow things changed, Michelle found that there was a point when the woman began to do more and the men backed off the more they backed off the more the women did. Guys tell Michelle tha everytime they do something around the house the dishes making beds vacuuming they receive unsolicited instructions about how to do it 'right' based on their nmeed to feel competent they don't appreciate being corrected and feeling incompetent. now this reminds me of something you said Xue a long time ago about the business you and your wife are in so I guess we can change the environment from home to work here.
now this bit is interesting Why does he have to be so dam controlling, he's always telling me what to do and always has to be right
it goes on to say men like to be in control, but for woman its hard to have a team when the only players are the coach and the water boy. it continues that testosterone, is responsible in part for the agressive behaviour, males in most species are wired to be on top of the pecking order will do what they must to get there and stay there. it says that is why discussons become competitions. It also says boys are conditioned and socialisd to have a controlling attitude and behaviour and at work they need these skills but when they come home they have a hard time switching it off. These days women want their men strong but they don't want dictators they want collaborators, open to suggestion, we want men who dont equate being wrong with being weak and we want to be appreciated and valued as people we want equal relationships but want to work the remote (for the tv) sometimes too. it says the worse you can do with a control freak is challenge him head on.
now some of the tips she gives say focus on what you want and not what you DON'T want having a quick flip through the book I am beginning to think it may not be such a bad idea to order it and give it to her with a big smile on your face
it is very much written like the DB and DR books easy to read nothing nasty for men in it but is basically bottom line - changing the womans behaviour to get the behaviour from the man she is wanting anyhow have typed way to much but I think from her comment humour is definately the way to her heart
bye the way he rang (twice) this week we spoke for almost an hour and he was very funny and told me a story about picking up this girl at a truck stop (me) and then she disappeared off the face of the earth and he didnt know where to find her - I told him he should think about it and would probably find her where she had always been as I believed she hadn't gone anywhere and had been looking for him too.
good luck Xue don't know if I managed to help here but just typed some things I found interesting in the book - that I really ought to read some day soon
So happy for you he called. I'll have to pop over and see if you posted about it on your thread.
I lived most of my life proud of not being a product of my childhood. Then one day I took a closer look and found remnants of days past. I quickly set about trying to figure out how to rid myself of them and I believe I've been pretty darn successful.
But every now and then I find another, albeit smaller remnant and I hastily go about fixing that too.
I've long been at a point where it makes no sense to look at the past and dwell there, only at solutions. I absolutely subscribe to the idea of looking only at solutions.
So occasionally when I say something is a product of the past it doesn't mean I'm going there. More of a casual recognition that it may have come from the past but who cares. Let's get on with fixing it.
With that said. I've been gone for a few days. Had to go help out my business partner. I could tell W wanted me to stay two nights but I only stayed one. I just had to get home to eat healthy and sleep in my own bed.
she was a bit dismayed that I came home early. This morning she said "I don't mind being alone". I guess that's better than the former "I want to be alone"
She also corrected me when I said "I" she said "You mean Us" It was kinda in refference to business I think.
Anyway I must show my emotions far more than I think because when we went to leave for breakfast she wouldn't let me drive because I "seemed preoccupied"
So I guess I must anger easily on a touchy subject and let it show when I don't realize I'm letting it show. These must be the instances that she perceives me as overbearing. Although when this happens I am trying to control myself at these times there must be something in my voice or expression that she picks up.
Two solutions I've come up with so far is
1) Stop drinking again. I started drinking wine again a while back. Not much, but I've realized that I'm more easily agitated the next day even if I only drank a small amount. I like reading lately anyway and I don't read if I drink.
2) Get back to jogging more. I stopped for the last few weeks, 100 plus temperatures and my dog was recovering from being spayed so no running partner. We start again tommorrow.
I've also noticed that W keeps mentioning going up the hill to do some stuff for her but never goes. I try to show indifference when she says she's going. I think this has something to do with it. I think she still somehow feels "trapped". I am working hard on getting rid of anything that may appear to trap her. Such as appearing upset when she wants to leave. Opening the cage door as much as I can. Letting her realize she is not trapped.
I really don't know how these ideas got so strongly embedded in her mind but they are.
In the meantime I've gotten better at doing things for me. Reconnected with a training partner and we're going to start working out again.
Funny she says she wants to leave for the day, wants to be alone and then ends up going with me and having a great time. Go figure.
Well I know I need to become less predictable and pull away some. That would seem to be the answer.
Quote: So she wants a strong man but doesn't want to be overpowered by him. She admires strengtth but is threatened by it???
What she said actually makes perfect sense to me. I had this discussion w/ a man a few weeks ago, and he was laughing, saying how complicated women are. It's really hard to put into words but I'll try:
I have a strong personality and I want a man who will stand up to me. I don't want to be with someone who will be afraid and run away when I am being stubborn, selfish or just plain wrong. My H always did that, and I hated it. I want an equal. BUT I don't want to be with someone who expects ME to do what I don't want him to do: agree all the time. I want a man who will listen to me and respect my opinions, even if he doesn't agree. If I can't make a decision about something and I ask him about it, I want him to make the final decision, not just tell me to do what I want. But that's only if I ask!
Quote: It's a man's world, It's a man's world!!!
This can be very frustrating at times. It IS a man's world, and in certain fields it is REALLY hard for a woman to be taken seriously. It sucks! But it doesn't mean she hates men.
Quote: She loves to say I'm the alpha male and loves to be the wife of the alpha male, but hates being the wife of the alpha male
She doesn't want to feel pushed around, BUT she likes that you can push other people around. It makes her feel protected; she knows she can count on you to take care of her. She just doesn't want to be treated like an inferior. Does she know that in packs there's an alpha female too? The alphas are the couple, not an alpha male and a beta female. She might like to know that.
It's a fine balance, but it's really not complicated. I think most, if not all, women are the same in this regard. I think it has to do with feeling secure and safe. It's a scary world out there, and we have to be tough so much. It's nice to come home and be soft and taken care of (but respected).
Nicola
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
Does she know that in packs there's an alpha female too? The alphas are the couple, not an alpha male and a beta female. She might like to know that
Those are the words I needed but I couldn't put them in simple terms. They were jumbled in my head. That is exactly the point I have wanted to get across for 8 months now but haven't been able to. Now that I have a simpler way of thinking about it I think it will come across in a non confrontational manner.
Especially since the whole basis she used to form here opinions was derived from "Women who run with the wolves" By Clarrissa Pinkola-Estes. It puts everything in terms of the female alpha but does not mention the existence of the male alpha.
