Thanks for your perspective. I just don't want to offend anyone of a different or non-relgious viewpoint.
- Phooey. Offend away, I say! Why? Current events. Because I think it is abso-fing-lutely asinine there are embassies being burned down and people hurt/killed, threatened to be killed over some stupid cartoon from a Danish newspaper. WTH? How about, "Forgive them for they know not what they do"? Then drop it? Sheesh. Drives me crazy. Lighten up folks. Lots more important stuff going on out there.
My H doesn't drink coffee or tea but I am guilty as sin of ascribing motives to H's behaviors without asking, putting thoughts in his head and words in his mouth and worshipping at the totem of the "perfect R" in my head. Wonder what H's perfect R looks like? What if this is it?
- I have to commiserate here, Karen. Will hit a bit on this maybe more on your thread. You're good to see this. I didn't. I saw x pulling away and I chased....smothered. Put thoughts in head, meanings to actions. I admit it.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
You know, I think the reason I like you so much is because you remind me of him.
I will get this book from the library. (or any other assertiveness book..chrome? any suggestions?)
Although I realize that I am walking a fine line between trying to help and control, I know that he too would benefit from the direct examples of what is asserting, passive or aggressive. I can tell you that he really has no clue how to 'hear' the distinctions in these. Passive sounds nice and the other two sound pushy, to different degrees.
Normally I'd say Oh who cares, it's how he is and I don't want to appear like I want to change him. But when we did Chrome's self esteem exercise the other day (list two things you don't like about yourself..) I was really floored that he said he "hates" being a yes man, being too agreeable. Honest to goodness, I would have said that this was something he admired about himself! All indications have been that this is the case.
So I will look it up and read it and mention the interesting things and before you know it, he'll be reading it for himself. That's how it usually works in our house!
Haven't gotten to that stage in the self-esteem training, although we have talked about it. Right now we are "biding time" until he (the self-esteem C) feels comfortable that I have reached a sufficient level to try to tackle more advanced topics such as assertiveness.
Oh, and that reminds me, I haven't added the next talking point yet today.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
The second chapter of the book Asserting Yourself" is entitled "Improving Your Self Esteem".
Without some level of personal esteem, it's nigh impossible to hit the right note when dealing with conflicts. The book asserts that there are three major obstacles - the negative image of yourself, the learned fear of conflict, and poor communication skills.
We can even experience mixed esteems. For instance, we internalize the standards of those people who had/have influence in our life and then describe ourselves within that standard. "I'm good at math, but stupid in people skills." We're already prepped from childhood with a reward/punishment system. So, we expect success (promotions, recognition, rewards) for our math skills and the commensurate amount of punishment (demotions, penalties, denouncement) on those areas where we deem ourselves unworthy.
Which explains why we can feel like such a success at work and wonder what happens to us when we get home, and can't figure why that sense of capability doesn't spread into the other unhappier situation.
The book notes that we compare ourselves with the significant other people in our lives and asks:
"Which people in your life do you feel are most important to you?"
"Which are least important?"
"How do you rate your power relative to the other person in each relationship?"
It then walks you through exercises that push you to define what "equal importance," "greater importance," and less importance.
I'm enjoying your thread and must tell you that I did not stop posting to you as some sort of action or reaction to you. (I'm just a spurt poster, post a lot and disappear.)
I knew that you were in an incredibly painful place and just hoped to point out those things that would keep you in that painful place and the wound forever bleeding. Although I may have made you angry (which was never my intent), you never lashed out in a personal offensive way with the intent to inflict pain. I personally think you are a kind, generous, big-hearted man who has managed and is managing to slowly peel away the baggage that a most difficult childhood saddled you with.
That book sounds really good. It is exactly right (and agrees with my C) that you have really no chance of successfully navigating conflicts, and thus R dynamics, without a good measure of self-esteem. I like how it breaks things down into specific issues, I hadn't heard that before. It gives me vision of how to tackle problems if I can approach them as individual issues, not just as one huge problem. Thanks.
I also like that mixed esteem idea, that fits me to a T. I just wish I had a recording of myself so that I could see first hand the change that comes over me going from work to home. The good thing is, I am fixing that. I feel confidence oozing into my home life, and the W is responding.
Interesting thoughts about expectations too. We often talk about how that when we expect things in a R, it can often have the reverse effect. Well, it is also true that if we expect bad treatment, very likely we will get it.
I like those questions and exercises you mention. I think I'll definitely have to bring up some of these points to my C next time I meet him. I think I am getting close to the point where I have the foundation to begin assertiveness training. Of course I have BF, Stig, and NOPkins to help too.
As far as the not posting, same answer that I gave Corri. That was a "glob" thing I said, worrying that I offended you two and that is why you stopped responding. Old habits die hard. I appreciate your posts, whatever you can give.
You are right, I was living in a fantasy world. It is so easy to see that now (I hope you are listening any of you who are considering an A). That fantasy was just a thin sheen covering a nightmare. Thanks for the kind words and your help.
Smoking the esteem pipe. Getting a little high.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
RE: Mrs NOP The book asserts that there are three major obstacles - the negative image of yourself, the learned fear of conflict, and poor communication skills.
"Asserting Yourself: A Practical Guide for Positive Change", by Sharon Anthony Bower and Gordon H. Bower.
