Hit the Wall....Am I on the otherside?

[Tim297181]

Ah well, if that is your intent, why don't you say so directly.

"W, I know you place importance on the symbolism of our rings. I want to give you my ring to hold for now. My removing it represents giving us both the space and freedom we need to see what we each want from the future. My giving it to you represents my conscious choice to let go of trying to control the outcome of this process and demonstrating to us both that I do not want a marriage R with you unless we both know that it is something you have freely chosen."

Thanx OT and Sassy. OT your words are very wise and it is exactly how I feel. You did say something on GH thread about me doing it for myself and not my W. Because of that I am going to keep wearing the ring. After thinking about it wearing the ring has alot more meaning to me. It may just be a symbol of something that is not there for my W in regards to my marriage. There is a symbol to me and it is what I still am fighting for and that is my marriage. How I will fight for the marriage is not through my W but through my efforts on myself.

Sassy in regards to before me losing my ring all the time. I just hate jewlery! I never liked rings. I had an office job, so my work did not impede me from wearing it. I always took it off when I worked out, so many times it would just stay off for weeks. I never thought much of it. The one thing I never did was lose the original! I still have it!
When we first seperated I realized how I just took for granted that my M was always going to be there and I did not have to work at it. So the ring took on a new meaning for me and reminded me of what needed to be done to have a healthy marriage!
My W and I did get new white gold bands when we recouncilled to represent our new start.....what a bunch of BS! That is why I was thinking of taking it off to show her that I was moving forward and that when she is ready to participate in building a new R and new M like we initiated with the rings we could both put them back on.

Even tonite I was postiive and upbeat. We did talk about the R a little but it was only when I told her I was planning to go out a few nites this week and on the weekend, and that we needed to set out a schedule for personal time away from each other. She right a way started in on the R discussion in regards to her being confused and not sure what to do, but knows what is happening right now is not working. So I told her point blank that my life is important and I need to build on it, with or without her, and that her actions right now in regards to the OM (even though she is open about talking and seeing the OM) causes me great pain so I need to build myself up without that pain! After that I told her I was going to work out after the kids have a bath and she can put them to bed.
All of sudden she did not like that I was leaving! She started to ask if I was really going to the gym since I already went for a quick workout at lunch, and if I was telling her the truth! Amazing how it can change that quick. I told her I am going to get out of the house and have my personal time, and give her the space she wants!
Soon after the conversation as I was getting ready to leave my D asked me to read her stories for bedtime so I did. Kids over ride the workout. By the time I was done it was too late to go to the gym so I stayed in the bedroom and folded laundry. Sure enough an hour later my W was in there asking if I wanted to sit and watch TV with her. I said thank you and I appreciate the offer but need time to myself. SO she left and came back again to ask so I did. Then she asked if I could rub her back!

All this just showed me how a little DB can go along way. The thing was I wanted the time to myself, and did not need to be around her tonite. So who knows, but I need time away from the sitch and my W even if it is in the same house!

[grasshopper]

Tim,

I think you and I obviously suffer from some of the same issues. The most pressing is that we both have wives who clearly DON'T like not controlling us, even though we have been the controllers in the M to this point. As soon as we even seem to be breaking away they come running to us and try to put the leash back on. Of course, like trained dogs, we immediately sit and let them put the collar back on and tighten up the leash. It's our comfort zone.
When you asked for the space and "personal time" she immediately made damn sure she had her thumb on you. When YOU do the same thing it causes a huge fight and you're a controlling bastard, right?
All I am saying is that since you saw a CLEAR sign that she is moved to action by your "GAL" then maybe you need to be SURE to follow through. Sure, the kids will ask you to put them to bed, etc, but that's because you're a single dad right now and they don't trust your W to be there for them like you have been. That is wrong, and you following through with your plans will not only give you time to build "you" but it will give your W time to rebuild some of what is missing between her and the kids.
I totally understand what happened last night, and earlier on in your sitch, what you did would have been more ok, but in light of what she keeps saying about divorce, I think you need to be more resolved to DO what you need to do without regard to her.
I think this offers you the best chance of real success, not only for you personally, but for your M too. Face it, your W needs to come to the realization that you really may be gone soon before she changes her thought processes and sticking around to "read to the kids" or "fold laundry" only reinforces to her that you will continue to be there whenever she snaps her fingers. Really, I am just repeating what OT said to me to a certain extent, but unlike my sitch, your W is openly flaunting the OM, and openly talking D, two things that would surely motivate me towards action on a lot of points OT made.
I think your realization that the little DB you did last night worked should give you motivation to really go for it and see what happens. What's the worst that could happen? You could get a D? Well, according to her, that's in the cards anyway. Why not reshuffle the deck...

GH

[PArob]

Okay, Tim, I may not be the best at giving advice here (or at least following my own), but in my opinion, it sounds like your contemplating doing that as a sort of manipulative move...at the very least, that's how she will interepret it. If you truly feel that you should take it off, then so be it....but please consider your motive in doing so before making the decision.

Its a fine line that we LBS' walk between doing things for ourselves and things that the WAS will see as manipulative.

[Tim297181]

Well the time has come to end this journey and move on. After a 11 months it is slowly come to an end. Well last nite was not so slow.

The first statement I will make is I would still like my M and R to work, but my W has not wanted to participate in it, and I need move forward for myself and the kids.

I had a good C session yesterday. We talked alot about me GAL, and my W needs to experience life without me and all my help. We also talked about the possibility of my W having a borderline personality disorder, or a chemical imbalance like being bi-polar. My C said my W needs to be diagnoised professionally but from what I have said and from her mood swings and erratic behaviour in regards to the kids, it is a strong possibilty.

So I felt good but now I was worried that my W is now suffering from something else. I had already planned a few nites out for myself over the next few days so I felt good.

My W and I have been friendly. On my way home she asked me to pick up some wine. So when I got home my W told me she needed some time to herself and was going to stay at our friends house while they are out of town. She was friendly and was trying to be nice to me. She sat her bag down that she was going to take, and then went downstairs. I think she did this on purpose because the bag was not completely zipped up, and right on top was her sexy lingere that she bought for "me" on our trip to MExico. Anyways all the bells and alarms go off in my head. She comes back upstairs, and I think to myself...screw it I am going to call her on this.

So I ask her where she is really staying and if she is seeing the OM, and please don't lie. She says no she is going to our friends house. Then she asks if I looked in her bag. I say no. End of discussion. Obviously she new I saw or wanted me to look.

We had supper. The kids were very naughty, and my W was not handling it well. She then started to blame me for the kids because I do not discipline them. How the heii would she know she is never around. We started to talk that what we are doing is not working, and the kids are hurting because of it. The kids miss her and cry for her all the time. I told her I want to be her husband and I foregive her. I just want to move on and have the chance for our M that we never had without the OM. Then she flipped and started bringing up that the whole marriage was bad, and all I do is manipulate and control her. That it is not about the OM and it is me. I say BS and that we both never had the chance to explore our new found appreciation for each other because the OM was always there!
Right then my daughter got upset and ran to her room. My W started to follow and then looked back and said "See what you have done!" I just could not hold it inside anymore. I grabbed the lingere out of her bag and threw it on the table. When she came out she saw it. I said now tell me the truth. She started to scramble, and then said I was the liar, and that all I am doing is trying to control her again and she needed to leave right now. She stopped in front of me, and I just looked at her and said "I do not know how to say this but I believe you have a problem that may need to be dealt with. You are going to be mad for me saying this but I believe your medication may be causing you a problem or you may have a chemical imbalance like being bi-polar."

Well I am sure you know how she reacted. She accused me of thinking she is crazy. I said no but from your actions it gives me reason to believe you maybe dealing with something more than the OM and our R. She said it was over and we are done talking! She will talk to me through her lawyer from now on. Then as she was leaving she said to me that regardless of who is in her life, and who she may have a realationship with her view of me will never be the same and she will never look at me the same way again, and that she will save that for someone else!

Well I may not have been the best example on how to DB, but it was time. I was unable to move on, and my W was moving closer to the OM. Actually I did find out that she did stay at the OM place last nite. I needed my truck she was driving so after I took the kids to the day home I went to our friends house to exchange vehicles. Wonder wonder she was not there. So I know where the OM lives and I went there. Sure enough I had to exchange vehcles in front of the OM house! How fun!

I actually feel better that it has ended in a way. I can move on. I spoke to a lawyer this morning. When we first seperated we were going to do collabrative law. So I hope we still can. The reason I wanted to talk to a lawyer was for the kids. The OM is an alcoholic and admitte gambler so I do not want him to be around the kids. Right now he isn't so there is the possibility of a restraining order down the road.

All in all i will still keep the door open for my W to come back. It will have to be because she wants it not me trying to influence her to come back. I need my time away from her to heal and she needs her time away from me to see if she does miss me or not.

Just like they say when you are going skiing by yourself, and you are waiting in line for the chairlift "Single anyone"

[NotMarried]

Hi Tim,

Reading thru this, boy - a lot of this sounds like what goes on in my house. I, too, suffered from trying to GAL and having my SO "talk" me out of it... or guilt me out of it...whichever way you want to look at it.

Don't beat yourself up too much about what went on. Do what you have to do for your own peace of mind. And your children. Your W is going to do whatever she wants to do, we all know that's how it works. As I'm ever so slowly learning, letting go is so very hard, yet so very necessary.

My thoughts are with you.

NM

PS - I had an idea for the ring thing - not sure if it's still an issue, but maybe if you don't want to wear the ring on your finger, how about on a chain around your neck?

[grasshopper]

Tim,

We have communicated via email already but I just wanted to publicly say that I really am sorry you are going through this. You are doing the best that could be expected and you have stuck this out for a long time when other men would have crumbled.
Sure, you had your moments of bad DB, and maybe this last episode was one as well, but you know what? Sometimes you have to do what you have to do and no amount of reading or advice can help you.
I think your situation actually will improve from here. You have been doing this for so long I think you accept daily pain as a normal part of life and love and it's not my friend.
Love should not hurt and I think you've taken the first steps in making sure it doesn't hurt you anymore.
You know you have people here who care for you and maybe it's not love, but it's damn close. Look to us for support and move forward with whatever the next thing is. Don't lose hope, and don't lose yourself in all this.
Whether your W returns or not, your happiness WILL return and your life will become better for it...and so will your kid's lives.
Please take care. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

GH

[PArob]

Tim,

I have to say that I'm disappointed that your W couldn't see the man that I know from these posts. A person committed to saving what is important, dedicated to his W and the M. My heart goes out to you as I know this has to be one of the toughest things you'll ever face in life. Just know that despite what has happened, there still may be hope in the future.....no one can really say. You've both reached a crossroads in your life and now its time to turn the corner and face a new day.

You are in my thoughts and prayers as well Tim, I admire you for you tenacity, your strength. I know that whatever happens from here, you will be a beter person for it. Please keep us updated on where things go in your life.

All the best,

[Tim297181]

Well it has been awhile since I posted.

I really had come to the conclusion that my M was over and I was going to be divorced very soon. My W was making no indications of coming back, and had said she wanted a D also.

I was truly able to detatch. I contacted my lawyer, and my W contacted hers. We were still living in the same house. I actually was relieved, and it was like a ton of bricks being lifted off my shoulders!

Then something amazing started to happen. As I began to move forward in only a few days, and became more comfortable with my decision my W began to fall apart. I was no longer protecting her from her lies and her affair. I told my parents what was going on, and my W was finally able to contact her father on holidays, and he knew what was going on!

I also took my wedding ring off! I finally felt comfortable with doing it. I work in a small company where my W use to work. It is mainly woman in the office and they all noticed immediately. Most of them knew the sitch my W and I had so they figured it out very quickly.

All this reality for my W really effected her. Her world began to crumble and the reality of what she was doing was now in her face and she could not run from it.

Soon she wanted to talk to me on what was going on. She wanted to know what I wanted. She was struggling with the fact that people now knew of her actions in regards to the affair. Because of this she became more aware of what her actions were doing, and wanted to talk openly and honestly again.

The trouble was I had decided to move on. The BIG D was the answer. I knew deep down I still wanted my marriage to work. But we still talked, but the roles were reversed. Me talking about divorce and her about getting back together.

So where are we now. It was my birthday on the weekend. It was good. The big thing was my W approached me and told me she was done with the OM and wants to work on her issues and work on our marriage. Then this morning she asked me to wear my wedding ring again. I put it on.

The big thing is I am happy she wants to work things out but I am so scared of the next few steps. I have been here before, and this tentative stage is very ackward and I am not sure if I am ready for it. I put my wedding ring on today and I felt energized and a new sense of hope entered me again, but I question if this is truly what I want?

[FireDragon]

Wow.

I'm impressed.
( Standing ovation )

I mean I heard such stories many times, but never directly from a person who was able to pull it off
It's like a ghost, you know: everyone heard about it but no one saw.

Well, it certainly is a reassurance to us all, if you forgive such egocentric approach.
I'll make sure to reread your sith to determine what it is I'm doing wrong

I wish you happy Birthday, and can't say that you received a great gift; because in all due honesty you seem to have created this gift yourself.
I can only say - keep it up and don't look back.

I put my wedding ring on today and I felt energized and a new sense of hope entered me again, but I question if this is truly what I want?
Well, but you answered it already. Remember -
I knew deep down I still wanted my marriage to work

As out guru Michelle says, start with an open mind as if you don't expect awkwardness and tension and see what happens.
If you need time to decide, take your time (it will only make her want you more). Or better yet, go to MC together, and maybe in course of therapy you'll express feelings that will eigher draw you closer together, or show you that you no longer want R.
In any case, you win.
So it seems that you have a new and exciting path ahead of you, so may your lucky streak last long

[FireDragon]

Well, my 100th post was addressed to a lucky person.

Hope it's a lucky sign