I haven't found my copies of DB & DR, they are in a box somewhere. I did check DR out of the local library, and BF & I started reading it together. We aren't very far into it yet. I've never read the 5 Love Languages, but I'm reasonably familiar with the concepts in it. My sister read it quite a few years ago and really liked it and shared the concepts in it with me. Then of course I heard a lot about it on these boards back when I was DBing trying to save my marriage. I have thought that if reading DR together goes well, that might be the next one I want to check out.
First of all, I know more than one of you has asked why I am doubting the relationship. I wanted to put some more thought into that before I answer.
In the meantime, some more replies to other questions & comments:
Quote: Missy said: you can't compare your new SO to your former spouse and what he did that you didn't like. You can bring it up to him that you don't care for that but don't say that is what Jack used to do. That wouldn't be fair.
I do agree with you in general that as much as possible you should avoid comparing new SOs to old ones. And if you have a complaint such as wanting more help with the housework, it will be much more productive to simply tell your SO that. Saying "How come men never help with the housework? X never did his share and now you aren't either!" is not the way to get results.
However, I think sometimes it is unfair to NOT explain that the X did that. Otherwise the new SO will see you getting upset all out of proportion to what happened, and not understand why. Let's take an example of a woman who was physically abused by her X. When her new SO playfully swats her bottom while ML, she totally freaks out. It isn't fair that she reacts so negatively to something that was done playfully and lovingly, but I think it would be better for the new SO to at least understand why she reacted the way she did. Admittedly, the perfect thing would be for the woman to be able to separate the two and not have the negative reaction in the first place, but I don't think most of us are able to do that all of the time. I know I can't!
This is why in my original post one of the things I mentioned was "how to avoid being angry at your SO because s/he happened to do something that resembled something your X did." I know I shouldn't do it, but sometimes I can't seem to avoid it, especially when BF bumps into one of those scars that hasn't healed yet. BF and I have discussed this, and we use the term "pits" to refer to those things that we are over-sensitive to due to past experiences. He has pits too. I would guess we all do, but probably recent divorcees have more than average. It helps just to have given them a name, and sometimes we say things like "Did I just find a pit?" or "I think you just fell into one of my pits."
Quote: Missy said: I think my kids could benefit by experiencing what its like to live life in a loving family atmosphere. Not all step families are horrid experiences.
I agree totally. I (with a lot of help from my X) have already shown my daughter how to have a marriage the wrong way and end up divorced. I really hope that I will be able to remarry and show her how a good marriage works.
Quote: Merrick said: The more third parties that enter their parents' lives, the greater the confusion and opportunity for conflict.
This is true, but new people entering their life also brings opportunities for lots of positive things. I think the real harm comes when the new people *exit* their lives. This breeds a lack of trust and makes it harder for the child to form new bonds because they are afraid they will be broken again. This brings up the question of when is the right time to introduce a new SO to the kids. In my sitch, it ended up that the kids knew all parties involved before it became a romance. Even then, BF & I struggled with wondering when to tell them about the romantic side of our relationship. We ended up just gradually letting them see it, rather than sitting them down to have a talk about it. I don't know if this was the right way to do it or not, but it seemed to work out ok.
Quote: Merrick said: But I do know that we have a tendency to put a positive spin on things that we aspire to and tend to ignore objective reality until it smacks us upside the head.
Yes, and that is one of the reasons I came back to these boards. Usually people who are a bit more removed from the situation can be more objective. So please smack me upside the head if I need it!
Here is what has been working for me and my GF in our new relationship.... we are both D'd and do not, repeat, do not, want to start a new marriage without a realistic approach.
A counselor is working with us with a few principles as follows:
1. Problem Solving.... all relationships amount to is solving problems together throughout life. Problems may be what we normally consider problems like health, money, family, etc.... or as simple as routine decision making... ie.. what will we do over the weekend? I have this need, you have that need, etc. If we solve problems effectively together.... we can achieve a lot and find happiness and build synergy in the relationship.
2. Values.... how we solve problems is usally based on our values. People of dis-similar values are less likely to solve problems in a mutually satisfactory way so a probability for a good relationship is low. So we did a searching session to honestly discover our values. It turned out they are quite close. Certainly compatible.
3. Behaviours... do our behaviours match our values? The main cause of stress in our lives is if we behave differently from our values (so this theory goes). So we asked ourselves... do our behaviours match our values. If not, how do we adjust that.
So bottom line... if your values are similar and are behaving in accordance with them, two people in a relationship will likely be able to solve problems or make decisions together effectively and build a happy productive life together. It is also easier to admire, respect, and be attracted to someone over the long term with whom we get along in this way.
Under-pin all of that with physical attraction to one another and that adds up to a winning combination.
That is the famework we are working in anyway... it seems to be working... we have weathered some storms and are really in love. There is much, much more to it... but this set of principles has been very helpful to us.
Can give specific examples if that would be helpful.
It sounds like you know exactly what I am talking about. I don't think I want to work with a counselor at this point, but it sounds like the things you and your GF are working on with your C are the kinds of things I want to work on with BF.
Having good problem-solving skills and a working approach to problem-solving within your relationship should be a no-brainer for DBers, although it is frighteningly easy to fall into old habits.
A few days ago I followed a link LittleBill posted in "When Therapy Hurts" back in 10/04. There was good information there and browsing around that site some more I found this: Is Marriage a Dinosaur? It says that researchers can now predict which engaged couples will succeed or fail with better than 90% accuracy, based on _how they handle_ disagreements (not the content or number of their disagreements). It would sure give me some peace of mind if BF & I could be tested by one of those researchers and find out we passed! However, this claim actually seems somewhat in contradiction with what it says later on that same page: that "research finds that we are ALL capable of learning the basic marital skills". I read that to mean that even if a couple fails this test, they should have a high chance of succeeding as long as both parties are willing to put in the effort to learn and apply the necessary skills, although it does not say that on that webpage.
This "test" or whatever it is researchers were doing to make their predictions... has anyone heard of such a thing? It seems like it would be an extremely useful tool, not just for couples to decide if they should tie the knot. Also for diagnostics of a relationship that is in trouble... to indicate who needs to work on what. Maybe it isn't that specific. Who knows? I just found it really interesting considering I've never heard of anything even close to that in terms of predicting the future success of a marriage. I'd like to know more details about how these predictions were made!
Chazz, you said you did a session where you did "searching to honestly discover your values". I'm curious exactly what you did. Is it something that I could replicate at home with BF?
Behaviors matching values... I don't think I've thought of the importance of that in terms of a marital relationship. Hmmmm, food for thought.
Thank you so much for your reply! You said you could give specific examples. Please do!
Quote: "searching to honestly discover your values". I'm curious exactly what you did. Is it something that I could replicate at home with BF?
You probably could replicate this. We simply took a list of about 30 values and rated our top 10. It is important though to have some common understanding of the definitions of the values listed. Otherwise you may find out you have chosen different things, yet that does not necessarily reflect that you are not compatible... it may just mean you interpreted the one-word descriptions differently.
For this reason... a counselor is important. I feel that anything that is important is worth paying for. I pay my accountant and lawyer. Why not a counslor? I would really suggest professional guidance.
Or at least find a program at perhaps a church or community group that may help you explore your compatibility with a neutral person guiding. Otherwise, the blinded by love thing could cloud your judgement. That is the danger.
Will post again... short on time at the moment... will see if I can post the list of values soon when time permits.
Why not a counselor? This is partly financial. But also I am one of those who feels that counseling hurt my marriage, so I really don't have a lot of interest in trusting my new R to the hands of a counselor.
I do want to go to an Engagement Encounter type thing before I get married again, but BF & I aren't at the point where that would be appropriate. So that is why I am looking for books & techniques and other stuff that will help lift the fog and let us make a good decision about where we are going (or aren't going) with this R.
If you can find & post that list of values I would appreciate it! It does sound like a useful exercise.
Lady- thank you for your post. I am fresh into all of this. July 12th my (now) XH dropped the bomb. August 26th the D was final. 1 week after what would have been our 3 year wedding anniversary. This year would have been 8 years together. But I am doing ok and I am actually seeing my BF from high school. I am only 24, no kids, and it seems that it wouldn't matter if I had waited 10 years to be in a R or now- the same issues are there. The fear, the worry, all of it. I am struggling to figure out what to do, what to say, is this right, etc.
Basically, here is my 2 cents. I have no answers. All I do know is that so many of us are in the same boat. In a new R. Hurt by the XS. Betrayed, hurt. We all have this DB knowledge and we all have each other for wonderful advice. Many of us feel we have been betrayed by our own hearts telling us our XS was "the one." I know I do.
The ultimate healer and answer is time. Other than that- if you believe in a higher being- you can ask for strength and ask for guidance. You can lean on us and your other friends for advise and for support. Unforunately, I have learned that there are no easy answers- no matter how much we wish for them to exsist. Sorry. Hang in there.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
Thanks for dropping by my thread. You make an interesting point that it may not matter if we wait 10 years before starting in a new R. I probably would still have all the fears caused by past hurt & betrayal. Some of the specific issues might not be so raw, but overall, I'm not going to be able to regain trust by avoiding having a R.
And yes, part of it is that I don't trust myself, my ability to determine if this R will work, if this man is one who will stand by me or leave me for someone else if the going gets rough.
