Yes, that's it, absolutely. I know that I have been much less than affirming throughout our R. And I guess it comes from my ingrained feeling that "once is enough." S. seems to need repeated affirmation, and I've noticed it, but I haven't acted on it. Case in point: When he cooks, I will take the first bite and say, "Mmmm, this is good." A few minutes later, he will say, "This is pretty tasty, isn't it?" and I will say "Yes, it's very good." Another couple of minutes go by: "Mmm, this is good. Do you like it?" and I will say, "I like it very much. It's very good." After dinner, he will say, "That was tasty, did you enjoy it?" And by this time I either want to burst out laughing or scream, but usually I just smile and say, "Yes, I enjoyed it very much, thank you." And then sometimes, a few days later, he will say something like, "How did you like that [dish] I made the other night? That was pretty tasty, wasn't it?" And at THAT point I find myself wishing it were still in my gullet so I could regurgitate it on his shoes.
T was tough this morning. S. brought in the dread e-mail from SM (the one where she is "sorry for him, and sorry for herself" and wonders what "could be done," and says she is ignoring the no-contact rule, and evokes old memories of them together throughout their history. ~~~*) <-- that, for newcomers to my thread, is the JinBklyn memorial pukey icon. Anyway, we spent the whole T session talking about her and S.'s R with her, and we didn't get to read the e-mail until it was time to leave.
I am still processing, but it was somewhat traumatic and I am probably going to leave out all manner of important detail the first time around. Here are some bullet points:
* S. is VERY reluctant to admit that there is ANYthing in that R that threatens ours. * He is still clutching the "controlling" card, that my asking him to limit contact with her is my being controlling (rather than trying to heal our R). * He said he felt "violated" by having to read the e-mail aloud, and having me read it the other night. * He said that my focus on her made him think about her "far more" than he would if I just let it be. (This is actually one of the very first things my DB coach Chuck said to me eons ago when I called for the first time. "Why would you purposefully make him think of her when he's with you? Stop bringing her up.") * The T was all over him, asking him to tell me how my feelings made sense to him, even as he was saying he didn't agree with what I was saying. * After he finally read the e-mail aloud, the T said it sounded to her like SM was "imagining" there to be some connection there that S. is denying exists, and that it sounded like she was trying to draw him back into a R with her. * The T said that the R with her not only served to pull S. away from me, but me away from S. She asked S. what the priority was, his R with me or something else, and he said his R with me. So she said next week we'd talk about how to say good-bye to things that pull us away from each other.
She said that it's an ongoing process, because more often than not, we don't want to say goodbye to those things. But if the priority is to be together, then we must do it.
My self-assigned homework this week is to come up with things that draw me away from S. - things I can say good-bye to. I feel I need to show him that I am willing to let things go, too, and it's not just him "compromising" himself and "losing" something.
Quote: * S. is VERY reluctant to admit that there is ANYthing in that R that threatens ours.
Maybe there isn't. Maybe it's the IDEA of her which is the only thing there.
Quote: * He said that my focus on her made him think about her "far more" than he would if I just let it be. (This is actually one of the very first things my DB coach Chuck said to me eons ago when I called for the first time. "Why would you purposefully make him think of her when he's with you? Stop bringing her up.")
Wise DB Coach Chuck. What if you just ceded all control and said, "Do what you want. It's your business"?
Quote: But if the priority is to be together, then we must do it.
Wise T. Very, very wise T.
Can you send me her number?? (my icon for )
Thanks for your post on my thread. I really appreciate it.
Quote: My self-assigned homework this week is to come up with things that draw me away from S. - things I can say good-bye to. I feel I need to show him that I am willing to let things go, too, and it's not just him "compromising" himself and "losing" something.
You know, good things are going to come to you for this. You have your ups and downs but you consistently return to focus on what you can do, not on what S should do, or how T can help or any such thing. You step back a bit and make an effort to see things from S's view, and even if you make a mistake, you're trying and that speaks volumes.
Thank you,
K
My sitch More importantly, Light A Million Candles
Good morning, everyone! Thanks to all who are chiming in over here - Koshka, KGBKK, honeypot (welcome!), Desdamona...
Koshka, thanks a million for the WOA. I don't feel quite worthy, as I often think about what I could do and then something triggers in me a nice, beginner-like setback and I forget all about the homework I've assigned myself.
Michele,
Quote: Maybe there isn't. Maybe it's the IDEA of her which is the only thing there.
I don't buy it. Even if it's the idea of her, it's too much of an idea for me to be comfortable in a committed R with him. The things he writes to her and the things she's perfectly comfortable writing to him (and rightly so, because he allows this level of intimacy) are not the writings of two friends, one of whom is in a comitted R with someone else. And I won't tolerate such a third party in my R, because I've seen the way it escalates the moment there's trouble in our R. Since we've had the no-contact agreement, EVERY time there's been a crisis in our R (and I mean one in which our R might end at any moment), he has chosen to break our agreement and contact her. And in all of those times, he has never mentioned that we are back together. It's been a YEAR.
Quote: Wise DB Coach Chuck. What if you just ceded all control and said, "Do what you want. It's your business"?
See above. Because I would not be able to evaluate our R with all the information - the contact would go back to being secret and outside our R.
One might ask, So why don't you just leave? Well, I have a baby on the way, and a baby's father who wants (and deserves) full involvement with Jr. Miss. I haven't figured out a way to be "separate but equal" [cringe]. And his actions and words are enough to keep me believing that he really wants this to work. What I need to do is focus on what I can do, but this issue of SM has been so long skunking up our R that I just can't (and don't want to) move forward without resolution. I feel like I have the T's full support on this one.
Quote: Since we've had the no-contact agreement, EVERY time there's been a crisis in our R (and I mean one in which our R might end at any moment), he has chosen to break our agreement and contact her. And in all of those times, he has never mentioned that we are back together. It's been a YEAR.
I think that untruthfulness is pretty difficult to handle. Right now I am wondering if somethings are just in someone's nature. The secretiveness, that is.
I have been on all sides of the infidelity issues. I have been thinking about both your point of view and your "baby daddy's" point of view regarding Swiss Miss. Since we each can tell only our own stories and experiences, that is what I will do.
When children are unhappy, they have imaginary friends to help them. They can imagine that they were adopted and that their real parents would not ground them, spank them or otherwise mistreat them. Someday they will be rescued by the handsome prince or some other powerful, magical character.
I think as adults, we do the same things with old lovers that would of course, understand us, never get angry with us, always have perfect sex with us etc. The reality of the lover never could possibly live up to what we have made them in our minds. I wonder if when you are angry, or whatever with your baby daddy, if he just imagines, she would never treat him so badly, she would always be a Stepford wife.
I once had a lover (prononced like lovah ) I met him while I was in college about the same time I met my baby daddy. The guy was came into Zale's where I worked to buy something with a friend. He had a wonderful smile and spoke only spanish. To make a very long story a little shorter he was in love with me, and I was attracted to him but had two other serious relationships at that time. He would come to my work after I was off just to watch me walk to my car. Bring me flowers and all sorts of romantic wonderful things. We talked sometimes for hours and hours on the phone and he listened to me talk about both Ali and Laura and the problems of deciding. He was my very best friend. Well, the heir came along and I wasn't sure what to do. I left to live in Mexico for a few months and think it through. When I came back, he had married! For many years, we talked and advised each other. When I finally decided to marry my baby daddy in the Church, he tried in vane to talk me out of it. He parked accross the street from the Church before the ceremony in case I should come to my senses and not marry the guy. I saw him there and I thought about it but didn't.
Now through both marriages, I talked to him when things were bad, I thought of him. SB would never ever treat me like that, talk to me like that etc. He was my handsome prince. When my current husband said NO contact with SB it broke my heart and I resented him for it. But it turned him into a even more perfect guy! He became this perfect lover to which no one could measure up.
Looking back, it was just childish. Magical childish thinking. I felt unloved and rejected and comforted myself with the idea the old lover loved me and needed me and sang romantic songs to me and in secret codes said hello to me on both his radio show and newspaper columns. Like a blankie or teddy bear. I needed that because I couldn't do that for myself. I still can't do it very well but I am learning.
So, finally the point. Do you think that your baby daddy just can't love himself or feel secure enough in himself yet not to have a blankie of some sort? In thinking about "the work" and your thought that he 'should' give her up completely. Maybe he can't until he finds a way to find that comfort and strength inside of himself. Isn't she a zillion miles away? Don't you think he keeps because she is so far away? Far enough away to make him feel safe when he thinks your relationship is not what he needs without crossing a boundary he has in his mind. Since he lacks that inner core strength he seems to need a plan B. He isn't honest with her about you. Seems he is afraid that if she knew him, she would leave him too.
I know this is long. I hope you can glean out of it what I meant to share. ( In my therapy we are talking about generations of people who married one person and continues to long for the one that got away)
desdamona
Arguing with reality is like trying to teach a cat to bark—hopeless. (Byron Katie)
Thanks for checking in on me Des, Koshka, Andy, and Ellie.
Ellie, thank goodness it's cooled off here. I was miserable in my un-AC'd top-floor home office, even with a desktop fan 8 inches away from me.
Things are rough, then good, then rough... the pregnancy is going very well and the discomfort is minimal. I'm still feeling good - well, when I'm not sitting at my desk 12 hours a day, which I have been diong for the last 3 weeks 7 days a week. My deadlines are piled on top of each other, and work has really been insane.
Work continues on the house, slowly but surely. Tension is high with S., because of his stress and continued blame (on me) for the "unreasonable deadline" I "bullied" him into. And no matter what, I "just don't understand." So I've stayed away for the most part. We pass each other once or twice a day, and he comes home after I've gone to bed. Not much room for screwing up or making good, but somehow we've managed to do both.
I'll spare you the gory details, but we're both in high stress mode and it's taking its toll on the R. Moving day is next week, and the house is far from finished, my deadlines are far from over, and I haven't packed the first thing.
So I'll get off the boards now and get back to work...
I hope to start posting again more regularly soon.
~~~*) <-- that, for newcomers to my thread, is the JinBklyn memorial pukey icon. Anyway, we spent the whole T session talking about her and S.'s R with her, and we didn't get to read the e-mail until it was time to leave. 
(my icon for 
and I forget all about the homework I've assigned myself.
) I met him while I was in college about the same time I met my baby daddy. The guy was came into Zale's where I worked to buy something with a friend. He had a wonderful smile and spoke only spanish. To make a very long story a little shorter he was in love with me, and I was attracted to him but had two other serious relationships at that time. He would come to my work after I was off just to watch me walk to my car. Bring me flowers and all sorts of romantic wonderful things. We talked sometimes for hours and hours on the phone and he listened to me talk about both Ali and Laura and the problems of deciding. He was my very best friend. Well, the heir came along and I wasn't sure what to do. I left to live in Mexico for a few months and think it through. When I came back, he had married!