Hi Deb! Wow! You sure have been through a lot in the last few days. You must be totally exhausted .. emotionally AND physically. I know, I remember going through the exact same scenarios!
Right now, if you were me .. I think I would try to distance yourself (more?) from your H. My feeling is that you need to get yourself "ready" for whatever may happen. Your H has told you before that it was over OR that it was going to be over and you discovered that it wasn't .. several times! (I've been there, done that .. so please don't think I'm being harsh on you/your situation.) Don't be such an open book to your H. He needs to know that you really mean business and that you are waiting, watching very closely to all that is going on with this .. but don't talk about it with him so much. I don't have to tell you that there will probably be some very bad days for both you and your H ahead ... your H will more than likely teeter back and forth for a while .. especially at first when he gets great pressure from OW..?
Based on how you are appearing in your posts, it sounds like you really .. I mean REALLY handled your whole situation well. Your goals for this week sound really good. Keep thinking about proactive things you can do for yourself. I think what you are planning on doing thus far is great!! You need to feel like you DO have control of your situation .. and you are doing some very good the things to accomplish that. I know this has been mentioned before, but I believe that now is the time for you to not be so predictable. I think that you just might be in the right frame of mind to start doing some things "different" .. what do you think?
.. Again, I have mentioned the things that I have here .. based on my own experiences. Please don't think I am being hard and/or unfeeling. I know that you will do whatever you need to do for yourself.
He SHOULD feel he needs to toe the line. This wasn't a one-time screw up - he has lied to Deb over and over again. It is up to him to prove and to be watched until Deb feels secure in the R - if she feels she wants to stay in it.
He's been dipping his wick in two different places. I am not sure I'd feel romantic about that, considering he may have had very recent sex with the OW...exposing Deb to possible disease and such. I really feel she should be tested for everything, just in case. I am not even sure how I'd feel being around a woman (like Deb is for work) who her husband has been plugging away at.
I do mean to sound crude - because it is. Debs husband has been screwing both of them, telling nothing to Deb but exposing Deb to this tramp....telling secrets, I am sure - that Deb never meant to leave their R. There are so many breaches of trust here, and it keeps happening.
I think Deb should go away by herself, not with H - not yet. But H shouldn't have two weeks to f*** his tramp.
Yes he should feel he needs to toe the line--but that is within him, Deb can't make him do it, nor should she try. However, if he felt he was being forgiven and unconditionally loved, might he not WANT to toe the line?
When my H kept messing with OW, I just said fine, do what you want--I have other things to do (don't get me wrong here, I was devastated!). Started going out with a MF and when H found out, OW was immediately gone. He didn't care for her anyway, he just wanted to be "comforted". We stayed separated for almost a year while I DB'd and he started getting more comfortable.
But I know he probably wouldn't have come back if I had kept being a victim and watching his every move and been suspicious of his every thought. I had to let him go and figure it out for himself. This is NOT easy--it takes a lot of lip biting, counseling, reading and self-talk and working on my own issues that contributed to my H looking for "comfort" somewhere else. But the only way I was going to save my M was to forgive and learn to trust again. I think Deb's H really wants to stay with her but he is uncomfortable right now and trying to avoid the bad feelings. His guilt is huge but he does feel some relief that Deb now knows everything, and he is sharing stuff with her about OW.
Yes, he screwed up big time, but does that mean he doesn't deserve a chance to be trusted and forgiven. I say, treat them the way we want to be treated and eventually some of it will come back to us. It does take time and patience, but there has been a breakthrough here and it seems pretty positive to me--of course, this is all my opinion--take what you like and leave the rest.
What a weekend girl! Sounds like you handled yourself excellently. Good job. I am sorry for all the pain that this betrayal has brought to you. You deserve none of it, whether or not your marriage was poor in the past. I want you to remember that, Deb. People make mistakes, we forget to listen, take eachother for granted, etc BUT that does not give a partner the right to have an affair and certainly not to keep rekindling it and lying about it.
I too think that giving him two weeks (frankly, even allowing him to come up with the time-frame) is too easy on him. But, hey, it's a done deal now. I do not think that I would go back and change it now. I think that by saying that he will break in off with her by June the 1st, by telling you that he needs to say goodbye to her daughter and that he needs to do this "well", is a case of him pushing the envelope. He is testing you to see just how much you will let him slide. (Like a teen does to his mom.)
It's time for you to decide what is acceptable to YOU. What do you deserve Deb? And then you need to communicate that to your h in no uncertain terms and remain unwaivering. Some people have given you a few ideas like a new cell phone, ow crap out of your house, no more paperwork on Saturdays (real or not), new job, etc. Make a list if you need to about what would make you feel more secure in your relationship. And what about the ending of their r? How do you see that happening? Would a face to face meeting, where all three of you are together in the same room when he tells her, make you feel better?
I just shook my head when I read about your h getting angry with the people at work for snooping. Does he ever accept responsiblity for his actions? He's been really great at blaming you and when he sees that that won't work, he blames people at work! Beyond ridiculous.
I think that these next two weeks need to be "Deb" weeks. Put total focus on Deb, her son, and achieving those goals that you listed. (Good goals, btw.)
I think that I would be selfish with my time and affection until I had some of my needs met.
Deb - I think I disagree with much of the negative posts here.
Sure, it will be hard to trust him - and it is reasonable for you to insist on proof that he has broken this off with her.
But I think what he has said and done this weekend is right in line with what is to be expected.
For instance - when discovered, he tried to deny it. Why? Because he really doesn't want to lose you. You have done a good job of DBing this past year, he now knows what he stands to lose.
Think of it like a drug addict. The R with OW was feeding him some brain chemicals he is low on. He wanted to quit but the addiction to the dopamine and other romantic chemicals was difficult to quit. He's told you he wants more romance with you. My H's insight was that he wanted all that romance, but really the person he wanted it with was ME. So - if you withdraw and punish and he doesn't have a chance to see he can have those romantic feelings with you - he'll feel drawn back to his "drug dealer".
The really good part is your H has admitted to you how bad all of this has been making him feel. Imagine the guilt he must have lived with every day! I agree with you that subconsciously he may have wanted to be caught - I'm sure my H did.
The bad part is he is a weenie about breaking up with her - I suspect he wants two weeks because he's trying to figure out a way to get her to break up with him! Although it usually is not a good idea to dis the oW, you might gently point out to him how manipulative all her "neediness" is - and how if she REALLY cared about HIM, she would have encouraged him to work on his marriage.
Deb has been bending over backwards for up to a couple of years now to try to trust him - and he hasn't earned it. If she pretty much goes back to the way it has been, then nothing has changed and he may feel that he can just go back to the same old, same old. I don't know that he necessarily wants to be with Deb, he may just be scared to make a change that would not include her anymore.
She has been loving him unconditionally all this time and he hasn't left OW. I think at this time, she needs to be a bit tougher on him - and figure out what SHE wants. He needs to show her that he wants to be with her. I'd mentioned watching Cheaters - you sometimes see women who just take their men back with no thought (or men taking women back) and you just know that it's more likely that the person will cheat yet again - because it cost nothing on the part of the cheater to be taken back. And I'd not be running to be all romantic and sexual with someone who was just screwing another woman. I guess I've changed a lot - I don't see myself as someone anymore who'd wait a long time. I wouldn't divorce easily, but if my H had the same type of thing going on, I'd not stay in the same household. It is torture.
I'm not saying to TRUST him. I am saying to ask for proof that he has told her it's over - and ongoing proof that it STAYS over.
I'm just not as cynical as some about the "realness" of his remorse and desire to keep his family. I think what he said and did this weekend is pretty much in line with what is to be expected at this stage. And it is not unusual for them to drag their feet getting that final cutoff notice out to the OW - after all, it makes the WAS look pretty foolish, doesn't it? Even my H dawdled for weeks on sending it, even though he was totally back with me and writing me mushy love notes.
So - I'm just saying, don't let you "protecting" yourself squash what appears to be a genuine chance at reconciliation, Deb. Sure, there's a risk he will waffle the other way and you'll get hurt. But there's an equally great risk that you'll "protect" yourself by being aloof or punitive, and that will drive him away.
I would have to agree with dfb. Deb has been at this a very long time with basically no change except her H seeing that by Deb's actions he can have both of them. He is waiting for one of these woman to give him the boot and the other will win by default. The excuses are neverending. So what if the OW has migranes? he is so worried about the OW's daughter, what about his own son and daughter? Why do they not matter as much to him? I truly believe at this point that unless Deb sets her limits, is clear on them and follows thru, he will continue on the way he has been. Why should he do anything else? The OW seems to have dug her heels in as well and she isnt going anywhere. Plus in addition to dealing with we have all had to deal with Deb has the extra added bonus of having to work with her H and the OW. She has no place of peace to go, home is not safe, work is not safe, this woman even invades her church. Deb: How has today been going? I really dont think any of us are trying to get you to do something you dont want to do, we just want you to start looking out for yourself. You deserve better than this and I think the only person who can effect a change is you. Your H is not going to, the OW is not going to. Have you had another appt. with your priest? Let us know how you are.
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