Trying to find our way to happiness

[sage]

JV -- One thing that came out of your "mild" backslide was finding out that h's not inviting you wasn't the slight you imagined. IOW, you found out that he would, in fact, love for you to come but that he hadn't thought to ask.

That's great!

One of the things that's really liberating for me (when I'm successful doing it!) is realizing that h's actions (or inactions) aren't, in fact, about me...iow, for many years I walked around thinking that whatever h did or didn't do was some reflection on how he felt about me...if he left dishes in the sink it was OBVIOUSLY to piss me off, if he forgot milk at the store it was a tacit dig at me (didn't he KNOW how hard I was working? How could he be so thoughtless TO ME!), etc. What it left me with was a lot of anger and resentment and the "screw you" attitude that was not mighty attractive.

Sometime around dday I just dropped the "script" of "what h does is a reflection of his feelings". It may sound completely absurd and impossible to do but, like many things, it's just a habit to be broken. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it (LOL! as if! ) but now I find that I can counsel myself...if I get home and feel frustrated because the clothes are still in the washing machine and I catch myself thinking "I can't believe he did this TO ME!" I am able to catch myself before resentment takes over. I just remind myself (as h did MANY times pre-bomb) "Hey, it's NOT always about ME!"

There are a couple of amazing results that have come from this...

First off, I'm amazed at how much less anger and stress I feel. That seems to have reduced h's anger and stress too! That sort of thing definitely feeds off of each other!

Also, once I stopped "expecting" stuff from h, h started doing more (yes, on his own timeframe but still!). I think the anger/resentment/expectation felt like me trying to control h and he was having NO part of that! But once I eased up on it, well, he really rallied.

Writing this has been a great reminder for me! I'm going to use "maybe it's not a reflection of how s/he feels about me" as my mantra today in ALL interactions!

Sage

[ValerieA]

Hello, Sage.

...is realizing that h's actions (or inactions) aren't, in fact, about me...iow, for many years I walked around thinking that whatever h did or didn't do was some reflection on how he felt about me...if he left dishes in the sink it was OBVIOUSLY to piss me off, if he forgot milk at the store it was a tacit dig at me (didn't he KNOW how hard I was working? How could he be so thoughtless TO ME!), etc. What it left me with was a lot of anger and resentment and the "screw you" attitude that was not mighty attractive.

It's as if I wrote this myself!

I've been feeling like this for way too long (even pre-bomb) and because of it, I have always thought that H just didn't care about my feelings. I always thought he was being selfish. Sure, H bought me new or newer cars, a bigger house, or whatever, but it's never been about those things for me. Evidently "Gifts" is not my LL, huh? It's Quality Time. I've been resenting H because of the lack of time he has given me, and since I mentioned this to H before he got home this last time, I was EXPECTING him to do something about it. Even more so since he hadn't left.

Sometime around dday I just dropped the "script" of "what h does is a reflection of his feelings". It may sound completely absurd and impossible to do but, like many things, it's just a habit to be broken. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it (LOL! as if! ) but now I find that I can counsel myself...I am able to catch myself before resentment takes over. I just remind myself..."Hey, it's NOT always about ME!"

WHAT?! You mean you AREN'T perfect?!

It sounds like I need to realize this and do the same. I need to break this bad habit and know that it ISN'T just about ME and it's NOT how H feels about me.

Also, once I stopped "expecting" stuff from h, h started doing more (yes, on his own timeframe but still!). I think the anger/resentment/expectation felt like me trying to control h and he was having NO part of that! But once I eased up on it, well, he really rallied.

Again, yes, I have been EXPECTING more time from H. I have to STOP this because since I've been upset about it, I think it's been showing. Well...yeah. It HAS been showing . Gotta STOP!

Thank you so very much, Sage. You seem to understand me better than I do myself many times! I can never thank you enough, and I always look forward to hearing from you. Thanks again!

Alright, I was going to post about last evening's events, but I have repairman here now, so I'll post again in a bit.

Thanks for listening.

JV

[ValerieA]

Ok now. About yesterday:

H and the boys came home around 4pm or so. They told me all about their great time together!

H took off to go to the gym and came back about an hour and a half later. He took a shower then put his things in the car for his trip. H's best friend (who's a co-worker) was packing equipment from our garage into the work-van.

I was sitting in the living room with the baby while H was in the kitchen. I guess I didn't hear H correctly about the Napa show that I thought was going on next weekend because H said, "....I don't expect this show (in AZ) to do well since it didn't last year, so I should only be gone for 2 weeks at the most 'cuz I gotta stay to do the installs with (bf)." I said, "Oh...I thought you had a Napa show next weekend?" H said, "No, 3 weekends from now. After that, there won't be anything til mid-June."

A short while later, H came up to me and said he was going. My PMA isn't showing because I'm thinking, "Ohhh....another 2 weeks?! How much longer can I do this?!" (Remember -- H has had this job for almost 3 years!!) H gave the baby a kiss goodbye then me. He looked at me for a moment then said, "I'm sorry....I still think you're beautiful." I said, "And I still love you." H said "ILY, too."

H went out into the garage and I followed to see him off. H gave the boys their hugs and kisses goodbye. (bf) wasn't done loading the van yet so we just hung out. H reminded me about the repairman coming out tomorrow (well, today) and said if there was anything else that needed to be fixed to have him do it. We've been wanting to replace the light fixture in the kitchen so H said to have him come back and do it after I had the chance to pick one out. Then H said, "We should definitely do it if we're going to sell the house."... ...S5 heard H and said, "No, I don't want to sell the house." H looked at me, looked away, then said, "Ok, we won't. We'll rent it out then."... ...A few moments later, H asked me, "So you definitely don't want to move to AZ, huh?" I told him, "I never said no. Maybe we could get my parents to watch the boys sometime so we could go out there for a few days and check things out." H said, "We could just take the kids with us." I said, "Yeah, we could do that, too." H said, "Well...I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. When I get back, I need to decide if I'm going to keep working for (boss). Let's go, (bf)!"... !!!

I went back inside, sat on the couch, and the tears started pouring out. Then I heard H coming back in saying, "I can't find my glasses. Have you seen them?" I quickly got up to go to the bedroom so he wouldn't see me crying, but he came in there. H said, "Have you seen -- What's wrong?" I shook my head and didn't say anything. H asked again what was wrong so I told him that I didn't know; I just didn't know what to think anymore. H said, "I'm sorry if what I said upset you.....Can you help me find my glasses please?"

I got myself together as best as I could (I wasn't sobbing; the tears were just flowing) and went around the house helping H look for them. I looked inside while H went looking outside. We spent a good 20 minutes looking around for them and still couldn't find them.

Soon after, H came inside and said, "I found them! Guess where they were....My dumb a** left them on the edge of the truckbed. I'm such an idiot!" ( DARE I AGREE?! No, I'm only kidding!! LOL!! )

Then H sat in the chair I was standing next to and pulled me onto his lap. We gave each other a hug then:

H: "I don't know, JV......I just see it like...We had problems before this thing happened, and we've been able to get through them. I'm not trying to say that it's just another problem......I have so much guilt still. I think about this everyday."
Me: "I know this is hard for you. It's not something that you can just get passed and forget about. I haven't forgotten myself, but I don't think about what happened (the A) everyday."
H: "Well I do."
Me: "I'm sorry. You're having a rough time, and I understand that."

H was quiet for awhile then said he had to get going. H said he was sorry he had to go again and for saying anything to upset me (about selling the house, etc); he said he didn't mean anything by it. He gave me another little kiss then we said goodbye again and he left.

Ok, it's taken me like 2 hours to get this posted! Kids -- you gotta love them!

H called about an hour ago to see how things went with the repairman. He was here to put up the new bedroom door and fix the toilet tank (it's been leaking). I told H everything went well. H wasn't too happy when he asked how much it cost to replace the door. He said, "That's what I get for busting it down...Oh well. Nothing I can do about it." Then H asked me what I thought we could sell the house for. I said I didn't know. There haven't been too many for sale around here lately, and I couldn't remember what the last one sold for. H said, "Call Susan (our realtor) tomorrow and ask her. I gotta go so I'll talk to you later." Then we said bye.

Alright. Ok, I've been thinking again . Uh oh!

I know I haven't been cheery around H much since he got back and before he left. I BELIEVE that my sulkiness (from the past several days and even pre-bomb days) stems from my feelings for quality time with H; IOW, my resentment/anger/frustration I go through when H is home but not spending nearly enough time just being with me or doing things with me. I have tried but failed to not show it in my face. I've been very quiet when H is around (keeping my mouth shut, hoping, and waiting for H to say "let's go do such-and-such).

I recently realized something. I find it uneasy to look at H sometimes. I think it has to do with the anger and resentment I feel. I've felt like H put me on "ignore" for so long; am I doing it now?

So...with the lack of my PMA and the possibility of H feeling "ignored", ....with H noticing my moodiness....could H think (when he sees me quiet and distant) that it's because of his A? Could H be thinking or feeling that I think about it everyday so this might be why he does? (Am I overanalyzing again? Sorry!)

I really think I AM over the fact that there was an OW. I do sometimes have insecurities, and I don't expect them to just disappear. I think what keeps me down is the resentment that's been built up and the emotional "drainage" the back and forth issue has caused in my sitch.

Hmmm...any thoughts please? Am I just crazy thinking too much ? And by all means, be as blunt as you want with me! I don't mind!

Thanks for listening to my madness!

JV

[sage]

So...with the lack of my PMA and the possibility of H feeling "ignored", ....with H noticing my moodiness....could H think (when he sees me quiet and distant) that it's because of his A? Could H be thinking or feeling that I think about it everyday so this might be why he does? (Am I overanalyzing again? Sorry!)

Yes, h could absolutely think that.

One of the things that my h tells me is that he's ok when I'm upset as long as he knows if it's because of something he's done...iow, if it's blurry what's bothering me, well, that really stresses him out.

But, let me add a caveat to that...that doesn't give me carte blanche to express anger, resentment, whatever to him at full tilt...because THAT doesn't help either. What really, really works is for me to work on my anger and resentment solo...to figure out what's there because I've overlaid some "script" or "expectation" or "ASSumption" on what h has or hasn't done (a la what I posted yesterday) which is anger I need to deal with versus what's really about some bit of behavior of his.

The other thing is that I've found that things rarely need to be expressed angrily or with resentment...ASK for what you want as opposed to demanding it, etc.

FWIW, I've found that my anger has reduced about 90% by shedding the scripts and interpretation...it's truly amazing how it just mellows everyone out.

Sage

[ValerieA]

Hi there.

One of the things that my h tells me is that he's ok when I'm upset as long as he knows if it's because of something he's done...iow, if it's blurry what's bothering me, well, that really stresses him out.

This sounds like it could be the case in my sitch as well. In fact, I can recall MANY times when H has said to me, "Will you just PLEASE talk to me? Tell me what is wrong. What did I do?" I always said "nothing" even though it WAS something that H did to bother me.

I think I tend to keep it to myself out of fear of causing a disagreement/argument, and that's because of my inability to control my emotions. For instance, I could be talking to H about what's bothering me, and he interrupts everytime before I'm able to finish. I get irritated, ask H to let me finish, he will say sorry/ok, I start again, but he cuts me off again, and I blow up. I tell H "forget it" because since he won't just let me finish then I don't want to talk anymore. Then H will usually say, "Fine, I WILL forget it."

Hmmm....Thinking about this takes me to goal #3 -- controlling my emotions and THINKING BEFORE I SPEAK. Maybe when I do talk to H about what I feel he's done to upset me, H might perceive it as me complaining/nagging/attacking him. I don't feel like I'm doing that. In fact, I WILL start out mellow, but when he interrupts, it's like H is pushing one of my buttons, then it all goes downhill from there.

Hmmm...I need to come up with a solution to that recurring problem.

The other thing is that I've found that things rarely need to be expressed angrily or with resentment...ASK for what you want as opposed to demanding it, etc.

I agree. I need to go back to just pleasantly ASKING for H to take me out, etc. I say "go back" because I did used to ask, but then H would be too busy with whatever so he couldn't. Or when he said "ok, we will", something would come up with him and we didn't get to go out. I felt rejected and let down all the time. So I've withdrawn from asking and started waiting. Waiting for H to ask me when and if he had the time.

Thanks again, Sage. This has been very helpful to me.

JV

[ValerieA]

Hi there.

It's Friday night, the kids are at my parents' house for the whole weekend, and I have nothing to do right now . Oh well! Tomorrow I plan on cleaning the house and re-organizing all the closets. How's that for GAL ?! I'm going to try to see about getting together with some of my friends later on.

Anyhow, I've composed a letter to H. I haven't decided if I'm going to give it to him or not. I know many would say not to, but I must tell you that this is something I've done many times in the past, even post-bomb before reading DR, and H has always been ok with it. I felt it was a great way to express myself to H, and it gave him time to think before talking to me about it -- all this without any tension.

I'm going to post my letter now, and please feel free to share any thoughts you may have. Anyone.

I would also like to mention that there are some very sensitive issues in it that I have not talked about here, and I apologize if anyone is disturbed by any of this.

XXXXX,

There are things that have been on my mind for a long time and I want to say them to you, but I don't know exactly how without crying all the time. It's not your fault that I cry. I am just an emotionally sensitive person; you know that. So like many times before, this is an easier way for me to do it.

I've been thinking about all the guilt you still have, and I understand that no matter how many times I tell you that I have forgiven you or when I try to comfort you, it still may not help make things any easier for you.

When I look back at our interactions with each other, I can see how I probably look miserable to you. I'm not going to lie to you, XXXXX. I am miserable, but it is not because of the affair. I am passed the hurt of that, and I never really cared about what the other person looked like or who they were. The other person could have been Miss Beauty Queen or Miss Piggy. I don't care. The affair was only a symptom of the problems in our relationship.

I can't possibly know what's going on in your mind. We're not mind readers, so with that said, I can tell you what's been bothering me for so long, for a couple of years. It's been the severe lack of time you and I have spent with each other. I know I've told you this before, but maybe I came across to you as complaining, nagging, or attacking when, in fact, I didn't think I was doing that at all. I was only trying to ask for more of your time. Spending quality time with you, XXXXX, and doing things together (other than poker) like in our earlier years makes me feel loved by you. It has never been about any gift you ever bought me. It has never been about a bigger house, new or newer cars, diamond earrings, or anything else. I truly and deeply appreciate those things, and I am forever grateful for everything you have done for the boys and me.

So, yeah, it's nice to have all this stuff, but that's not what's important to me. What is important to me is spending time together. Like I said, that's what makes me feel loved. I can't tell you how it makes me feel when you are gone working for weeks at a time, come home, take the boys out to have fun, then you're off to go play poker for the night. Many times there are 3 or 4 nights in a row of this, then before I know it, it's time for you to go back to work......Where am I in any of that?

Actually, I can tell you how it makes me feel. When you and I don't spend any time with each other, it makes me feel rejected, let down, and so alone. And when you sound upset or irritated with me on the phone, it only adds to it. I dread answering the phone sometimes. I don't want to be asked, "WHAT are you doing?" I'd prefer, "HOW are you doing?" or "HOW's it going?" The latter sounds much more pleasant. It would at least sound to me like you cared. If I do or say something that displeases you, I would like for you to talk to me about it so I can improve what needs to be.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining about your job either, but I have to be honest. Yes, it sucks that you have to leave so much for so long and you are constantly stressed out about working for XXXX, but I respect the fact that you are doing what it takes to support us. I always have. And to be even more honest, I think there is a lot more out there for you to look into as far as a new job. The one you have now pays the bills, but I believe it's one of the biggest issues in our family. You've had it for about 3 years now, and although things have always been a bit rough, our relationship has suffered even more because of the demand this job has on you. I know you aren't happy working for XXXX, so why settle for it? I know you could find something that you'd be a lot happier with.

Another issue that's been bothering me is intimacy. Not necessarily just sex. It's more than that. It's about feeling connected to you, both emotionally and physically. I remember when we used to walk side-by-side holding hands or we'd have our arm around each other. That doesn't happen anymore. You walk ahead of me now, and I feel left behind. I also remember how you used to ask me to sit or lay down with you if we were watching something on TV, and that, too, has stopped. I know it's because we have grown apart over the past couple of years, or at least that's what I think. Now, sex. XXXXX, I love the sex we had together, and I thought you did, too, but I feel like you don't anymore. You used to say you wanted it much more, and now I'm the one saying it. When you initiate it, it makes me feel sexy, desired, feminine, wanted, and loved. I don't initiate it because I get turned down or made to feel like you don't really want to, but you're just willing to. I love the intensity involved, most of the time, but sometimes I would like passion and tenderness. Sometimes I don't want to be (bleep); sometimes I want to be made love to.

Lastly, this has bothered me the most. It's the deepest and touchiest concern that I have. XXXXX, you have an eating disorder. Bulemia is a sickness, and I know you know that. XXXXX, you are hurting yourself more than you think. I have seen stuff on this disorder, and it scares me when I think of you doing it to yourself. If you absolutely refuse to get any kind of professional help, and if you won't stop for me or for yourself, then please stop for the boys' sake. They need you around, Daddy. I'm sorry. This really hurts and scares me to death. I love you, and I care so much about you. Please stop!

I hope you're not taking any of this as me complaining or telling you all the wrong things you have done. I am in no way trying to come down on you. I'm just letting you know how I've felt for some time now. I guess like you in a way, I've been keeping my mouth shut to avoid conflict and hurt, but I have learned from you, and myself as well, that silence breeds frustration, resentment, and anger. That's no way to live, and that's definitely not how I want to live. I don't think you do either.

XXXXX, if you're only here for the best interest of the kids, or because it's just easier and convenient this way for you, then we should split up. I really want to be with you, but I also need to feel more than just cared for. I can't make you change; you have to want to work on yourself for yourself. I know I'm not perfect either. There are things in me that I want and have to change for me and for the boys. They need to have parents who are happy with themselves so they can grow up feeling the same.

Statistically, it's best for the boys if we stay together; we both know this. They are more likely to succeed in life if we do......but is it realistic or healthy to stay together and just keep quiet for the rest of our lives? I get the sense that this is what you're doing. You have said many times that you've wanted out yet you still remain. Am I completely wrong? Or am I right to a certain extent?

You're right, XXXXX. We have had many problems throughout our relationship, and we've always managed to get through them somehow. I think if we could find a way to forgive each other for our mistakes in our life together and work through the fog, well, I just think there is some amount of hope. There doesn't need to be loads of it, and bad days are bound to happen. A perfect marriage does not exist, but if we could find a way to get through this, and learn to be more loving to each other, then there's the possibility of having a relationship that we could both be proud of; one that the both of us could be happy with. Is that something you'd like to have? Is it something you'd like to try for?

XXXXX, if you just don't think that you could feel the same way you used to about me long ago, and if you can't do any little bit of the things I'm asking for, then you have to let me go. You can't be with me because you feel selfish. You can only be with me because you want to be. I just want to feel loved and be loved again. If I deserve anything, I deserve that. And I hope I'm not sending any mixed messages. Like I previously wrote in this letter, I want to be together, but I want us to be happy together, too.

I love you,

XXXXXXX

Ok, it's getting late and my fingers are cramping up on me.

Like I said, I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this letter. These are major concerns and thoughts I've been wanting to express to H without getting interrupted or emotionally disturbed. Every time I ever gave him a letter, H always had deep consideration for the feelings I expressed.

Please let me know what you think. All thoughts are welcome.

Thanks for listening.

JV

[SherryL]

I give my H letters, too (even though we are not supposed to). I haven't in awhile. My H doesn't mind. I think he preferred them because it meant we didn't have a long drawn out discussion but I could just get to the heart of what the problem was.

JV, my question is are you ready for the answer you might get? Are you ready if he says he will let you go? If you are truly ready for that, then I say give him the letter. I know many people here will not agree and say it isn't good DBing. That is just my two cents worth.

Sherry

[ValerieA]

Thank you, Sherry.

The letters work out the same way for H and me in our sitch. I honestly DO believe I am ready for such a decision. Yes, it'll hurt and be disappointing IF that's the way things were to go, but I just want some comfort in my life; I want to heal. There are things that H said to me in our blowout convo before he came home last time that really did some damage inside of me. I know people say stupid things out of anger all the time. H did admit he went way overboard and apologized, but even still, I feel like I can't get over it, and I don't know if I can feel the same way about him again. It's possible that it could take some time to mend just like getting over his A did.

I do love H, and care deeply for him still. I wouldn't be here on this site if I didn't. I'm just tired of all the hurt, the resentment, and the loneliness. I want to get rid of it, and I guess I see H as being the cause of it.

I know I'm ultimately responsible for my own happiness. I can't depend on H making me happy anymore. All I can do is hope, but not expect, that H will help with it a little.

The phone just rang. It was H; he left this message:

H: "Hey, it's me. I just called to say hi. I'm done working for the night so I'm here at the nearby casino to play some cards. My phone doesn't work too good in here....I was hoping you'd pick up....Well, I just wanted to tell you guys, everybody ILY...and, JV, ILY, too......I hope that when I come home......I want to talk to you, JV. If I don't talk to you tonight, I want to talk to you tomorrow......I just wanted to tell you ILY....and I really want to talk to you.....I feel.....like a complete a**hole.....and I want to talk to you.....and ILY."

Well, I'm thinking I should wait til tomorrow to talk to H. If he's playing poker right now, it may not be the best time for H to say what he wants.

I'm heading over to my friend's now for a few hours or so. I haven't done anything with them in weeks! Should be fun!

Thanks for listening.

JV

[ValerieA]

Well, it's after 6am here. I was sleeping up until the phone rang about 2 hours ago. It was H. He was on his way to the hotel from the casino.

We had a lengthy R talk. Actually, H did all the talking; I listened and only spoke a few times.

H had a lot to say. First, he said he was sorry for doing this at 4am, but he just couldn't sleep and was thinking about this all day. H also said, "I'm so sorry for everything I've put you through, JV. I've done and said so much horrible, horrible s**t to you. I want to mend what needs to be, and I really hope that I'm not too late."

H said he's been feeling like he has been taking me for granted. He knows that I love him, and because I haven't given up on him, he realizes even more just how much he loves me. H said, "You have always been right there for me. You've always been there to hold me, comfort me, and kiss away my tears.......I am so sorry that I've been taking you for granted. You mean everything to me, and you are everything to me. I do not want to lose you, JV......You are so amazing. You are what every man wants. You are beautiful both inside and outside. You are such a loving wife and mother. You're sweet, kindhearted, understanding, and so very forgiving......I've screwed things up so badly over the years, and especially, of course, over the last several months. Now I want to spend the rest of my life making it up to you. I want to give you everything you deserve, JV. ILY so much.......and I am so sorry I said I never wanted kids. In the beginning, I didn't want S9, but you have to know that I do love the boys, JV......Life is too short.....I want to spend the rest of our lives together. ILY and only you, and I want to show you just how much ILY everyday. I've been neglecting you for too long......I want to get rid of my guilt, and I can only do that by doing what's right.....I messed up what we had. We had a really, really good life, JV, and I f***ed it up. I got so damn close to ruining my family and my life with you, and I can't forgive myself for that.....I am so sorry, and I'm so sorry for going back and forth with not knowing what I wanted. I do know what I want; I want to be with you.....ILY, and I wish I was lying next to you right now.....I want us to be ok again. Actually, I want us to be better than ok. I want us to be great together. I can't say how much ILY enough....Please tell me I'm not too late, JV. I've been feeling dangerously close to that happening."

I told H that I've felt like he was taking me for granted, and I was glad that he seemed to realize it. I told him he was not alone in the downfall of our R; we were both to blame.

By this point in the convo, H had reached his room and didn't want to wake (bf), so H said he would talk to me more later. H said he can't wait to get home and "ILY". I told him "ILY, too," then we said bye.

So...it seems like we may be on the right track again. I know to expect a glitch here and there, but hopefully it will be a smoother ride from now on, and I know at this point, it all depends on me.

I can hope. I just can't expect.

BTW, I don't think I'll be giving the letter to H anytime soon if at all.

Thanks for listening.

JV

[SherryL]

Oh JV, I am so happy for you.

Those are words we all long to hear.

Remember you still need to DB and this will take time.
But it sounds good, like your H has finally made his decision. Your hard work paid off.

I will keep checking in;
Good luck!!!

Sherry