Looking backward...but only to move forward THREE

[IAChild]

Sage,

You are very good with words. How about working on being the Queen of the Double Entendre?

[sage]

Minnie --

This makes perfect sense in my mind Sage. I do the above (0ften! and usually about other kind of stuff) and it's never a good outcome for anybody.

Yes! I do this with other topics as well but I've been much more effective at changing my responses to pretty much everything else but the mention of another female. (And, there ARE times when I do ok with that...some days are better than others!)

I, too, believe that H is doing his very best to include you, to be open and honest.....and I also believe that this is just someone that he knows at school and talks with about school stuff....

I guess I want to reiterate (in support of your post here) that my original post really wasn't suggesting that something was going on with h and ff. It was more about ME ( ) and how no matter what happens, there's a dynamic in my R that I really want to change...that of my being closed off and insecure and jealous.

I guess I kind of liken it to my approach to DB'ing in general (well, on a good day! ) -- the notion that whatever comes to pass, I have some growing to do for myself -- it's far less of a commentary on h and "his stuff" and far more about me and how I want to act and feel and react. Right now, I really see myself closing down at times and I don't like it.

Sage

[sage]

Sage,

You are very good with words. How about working on being the Queen of the Double Entendre?

Thanks!

It's funny that you suggest this because I think this IS the type of flirting I try to do...but then I think I blow it a bit with the post-suggestion reaction...I get nervous and embarrassed that he didn't enjoy the entendre and kind of back pedal a bit.

I think this Queen needs to be a bit more confident and use the double entendre without the nervous laughter afterwards!

Sage

[sage]

Amy --

But maybe its better that he does mention ff - still its hard to not to think negatively when your trust has been broken. I suppose time and consistant behavior on his part will help with trust issues.

Yes...and in parallel, I want to be working on my consistency and positive behavior. But it is HARD!

I had no problem - before all this - trusting my H with ANY female. Should you go back to that complete trust again ? Or is that what got us into trouble in the first place ?

Well...TBH...I never had complete trust -- in fact, I was very likely the opposite...always ASSuming something untoward or unseemly...if not ongoing, a grave possibility for the future... For better or worse, h has been subjected to my insecurities and mistrust at some level for some period of our m.

I suppose middle ground is the best - not being obsessive about females H associates with - but still let H know that if he starts feeling to close to a female friend - that he can tell us about it without us overreacting - and we can decide the best way to precede from there.

I agree that middle ground is best...and in my sitch I really think a key to this is keeping the lines of communication open. I'm seeing my role in not doing that at times...trying to fix it.

I have a friend who tells her h when she's attracted to someone else and vice versa...not in an in your face kind of way but in a "hey, I have a crush on so and so" .

I'm not sure that would actually translate into open honesty if someone really DID catch her fancy (in a serious way) but to me it's an intriguing concept.

I know for a fact that I shut h down more than once when he tried talking to me about finding someone pretty or attractive. I think I really made him feel that if was attracted to someone else there was something WRONG with him or us. Now I know better...attraction seems pretty normal to me...the key is (certainly) to think to oneself "good thing I've got an even better mate at home!" (well, that and to not play into the whole attraction thing with the op -- maybe taking it home and mentioning it DOES work!)

Sage (blathering!)

[minnie1]

Hey Sage,

Perhaps I just felt stodgy in her presence.

Ah, once again you describe me perfectly my friend! This is how I usually feel in front of women my own age/younger than me......sigh.

I'd love to add some flirtatious qualities to my R with h. I try (perhaps lamely!) but I don't think he views me as a bubbly sort.

Yes, same here....but....I believe you mentioned a few days ago that H called you (or was it email?) and he was a bit "racy". Could you be racy right back? How would he react?

Minnie

[sage]

I believe you mentioned a few days ago that H called you (or was it email?) and he was a bit "racy". Could you be racy right back? How would he react?

Yes! It was definitely different behavior for him...usually I'm the one making the leading comment and he's either reacting positively or negatively to it (either in word or deed!). It was interesting that he was the one that made the verbal overture...I think I responded "racy" back...

I think there's fodder for some goals here

Sage

[honeypot]

Sage,
What about using email as a way to flirt?

I too have a hard time flirting with my own husband, how silly is that. It is all this darn baggage and not necessarily that he does or doesn't enjoy it.

I do, however, flirt with him in email because I am not there to put my own spin on what his reaction (or lack of) was. Also, he can then process the flirt and figure out how to respond. I think with my H that he just needs time to process the flirt and respond in kind. If he doesn't have this 'time', he will sometimes say or do something slightly negative even though he may have secretly enjoyed it.
He is not great with social skills and I believe I have misinterpreted this for YEARS as him being uninterested in me.
Now! If I could just remember this at the time that I do occasionally screw up my courage and get a nonreaction, I'd be in business.
I've also found that the more I keep my emotions under control and don't pull back from the nonreactions, the more he pushes himself to give his true reaction.

Honey

[sage]

Honeypot, ( )

What about using email as a way to flirt?

Cool! I like it!

I do, however, flirt with him in email because I am not there to put my own spin on what his reaction (or lack of) was. Also, he can then process the flirt and figure out how to respond. I think with my H that he just needs time to process the flirt and respond in kind. If he doesn't have this 'time', he will sometimes say or do something slightly negative even though he may have secretly enjoyed it.

I think you just hit a couple of nails on the head that make flirting troublesome for us too! (looking for a specific reaction, not the "right" time to respond, etc).

I've also found that the more I keep my emotions under control and don't pull back from the nonreactions, the more he pushes himself to give his true reaction.

Yes! I also sometimes see h do a "do over" where he will come back to me after a bit and respond more positively. I guess I can relate to being caught off guard and reacting "stalely" or "negatively" but I always forget that in the heat of the moment (so to speak!).

Now...I don't suppose anyone has any specific recommendations on what to say? (lame, lame, lame!)

sage

[slowly]

Wow, lots of stuff here that resonates with me, about inappropriate relationships Honey, I hear you on the flirting

I've also found that the more I keep my emotions under control and don't pull back from the nonreactions, the more he pushes himself to give his true reaction.

Food for thought. Slowly

[honeypot]

Hi Sage,
I don't usually get too graphic or 'weird'.

I have written, I had a sexy dream about you last night! and don't offer details unless he asks for them.

Or just simple things like, You looked really handsome last night--I can't stop thinking about you!

Would things like that work? My tactic has always been to flirt but not overwhelm him with seeeeex cause that just makes him feel icky. Keepin it light seems to strike the right balance.
I can't really say any of this helps us ML more often but, honestly, that's not why I do it. I just like expressing that side of mySELF and this offers me a nice way to do it.

Honey