Tonight my W and I went to a party that could have been a lot of fun, instead she didn't want to dance with me and practically ignored me the whole evening. When she came home she immediately sent a letter to OM saying that she really wants to see him, but realizes that if she does she'll probably end up leaving me. How am I supposed to take that?
Up to this point I have been the model of calm, controlled and incredibly tolerant and understanding. However, after reading this I drafted an email to OM saying that if I even suspect he has contacted my W in any way, I would alert his girlfriend whom he lives with (and my W is aware that they are living together since we have done things together).
At the last moment I sent the email to my W, telling her that I would send it to him also. Unless she comes up with some miracle solution, I do intend to send this tomorrow. Although, even as I write this I feel my anger subsiding and my resolve to follow through weakening since I have been advised through all my readings and all your support not to pressure and not to confront. But how can I not do something?
It seems that to let her continue is insane, since it will only entangle them further and lead to more and more intimacy between them and more alienation between us. We had such a wonderful time together on holidays just a few weeks ago. We even had sex. Where did that go? What is she thinking. Every time she feels slightly annoyed with me she contacts him.
Maybe this should tell me something. Will this make her annoyed, or will it be the wakeup call she needs? I truly believe, from what she tells me and what she writes to him that she wants to be able to stop contacting him, but she doesn't have the resolve. Will this help?
The other question that comes to mind is that if I make him choose between, in essence, my W and his girlfriend, will he make a stand and choose to keep contacting my W, leading her to believe that he really does love her more than I ever could (which is rubbish!)?
I am so overwrought right now, I don't know which direction to go. Has anyone been in this situation before? What would have happened to any of you if your spouse had put this ultimatum out there while you were having an affair?
What you have to accept is that you have no control over her behaviour. She is an adult with the right to make her own decisions. She made the choice to marry you and can make the choice to di vorce you if she unwilling to stay in the marriage. Howerver, you have also the power to stay or leave a marriage if you do not agree with her behaviour. IMO,the way to stop this affair is to let know in no uncertain terms that you will not stay married to her if she continues the affair. I would show her that you are serious by cancelling all joint bank and credit card accounts, joint health policies etc. I would also hire a P.I. to get evidence on her affair. I would tell the OM's employer, his gf, your wife's parents etc as to what is going on. I would make lots and lot of noise. Once an affair is under the spotlight it stops being so appealing. Your wife needs to see that you are serious about divorcing her than standing by while she is in an adulterous relationship with the OM. That is when the fantasy balloon is going to burst.
You can take Davis' advice and put your foot down. (I would get the PI first, then do the rest of what he says). I don't know if making noise about it works, as I did that in my situation and it did nothing positive for it.
There are a few other stratagems you could do here too. Instead of being there for her so much, you could 180 or LRT.
Everybody has a line though, and when you reach it you have to do what is comfortable to you. I can tell you in my situation I did some DBing without knowing it, made alot of mistakes too, but finally decided that I had done enough and had enough, and filed. Do I think about her? Yes, but I don't beat myself up about it. I did what I could.
You may be nearing that line yourself. Whichever you decide, don't beat yourself up about it. Just do the best you can.
Time really does heal wounds, and there really are other fish in the sea. Do for yourself, as Davis is right in saying that you can't control her. Time will pass and you will be happier with yourself, and maybe you will have her and maybe you won't, but you can feel good about yourself.
The only way to maintain a moderate sum of happiness in this life, is not to worry about the future or regret the past too much." -- Mel Gibson
I would not recommend contacting OM or making threats to reveal the A to his primary partner. This will not solve your problem which is your W's EMOTIONAL attachment to OM. In fact, you contacting ("messing with" in her view) OM, is likely to increase her feelings of loyalty to OM.
I know that the idea of physical contact between OM and W is painful for you... but try to remember this: Your W's EMOTIONAL connection with OM is the primary PROBLEM, not the physical side of the affair. She's a woman...once her emotions for OM resolve, there will BE no physical side to the affair! True, physical contact can indeed increase emotions and bonding, but so can the "missing" and frustration of staying away from physical contact and e-mailing eachother about the agony of it all, so I would try not to go crazy over what she does or doesn't do.
I think the whole "chapperone" idea was kind of bizarre anyway, not that you asked for an opinion on that ... but how can two people have a private conversation with a chapperone sitting there? Jeeze, there would be more privacy on e-mail!... OH, I forgot.. except with a snoopy H!
I would not take this "last meeting" biz so seriously! Often there are many "last meetings." I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but you will avoid a lot of stress if you don't get sucked into their drama.
I think you might sit down with W and GENTLY inform her that she does not need to SEE OM to "cut things off!" There is such a thing as a telephone. And e-mail. I would gently ask her why she feels she needs to "see" OM to break up. They want to see eachother because A.) they want to be able to have physical contact or B.) they plan to continue the relationship. If you could gently get her to fess up which one it is (or both) it may lead her to some self-insight about what she is really doing. Right now, she's kidding herself. People don't go to hotel rooms to break up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Next you are going to hear that they want to take a 2 week "break up vacation" to Aruba. Just for one last visit! I am ALL for you supporting your W about this and letting her do what she wants to do! But that doesn't mean you have to act like you "buy" all her transparent rationalizations. That's not going to help her "reality check." I think you can gently make known that you don't buy rationalizations, and then hopefully she will respect that she cannot pull the wool completely over your eyes, even if she can pull it over her own.
"True, physical contact can indeed increase emotions and bonding, but so can the "missing" and frustration of staying away from physical contact and e-mailing eachother about the agony of it all, so I would try not to go crazy over what she does or doesn't do."
Maybe I am old fashioned but adultery in my book is not a behaviour that should be viewed with understanding and empathy. Acceptance will only convey the message that she has nothing to loose if she goes ahead with betraying you. My friend, if you hope to possibily save your marriage and stop this affair you need to bring things to a head. Right now you don't have a very high importance in her life compared to the OM. What you need to do is bring her back down to earth. To do this you need to bring the situation out in the open and make it clear that it is not fair to you and the the family for her to carry on a clandestine relationship with this OM. If she is unhappy with her marriage and wants to be with this man or any other man you are ready to release her from her marriage vows. You are ready to go with her to a lawyer and mutually file immediately for divorce. Remind her that you didn't force her to marry you and you are not going to force her to stay married if she is so unhapppy. If she chooses to commit to being married to you than she is expected to stop all contact with the OM and focus on rebuilding her relationship with you.
Davis, I have read some of your posts and I must admit your "hardline" approach to affairs is both logical and justified. I can see how your approach might even be quickly effective at stopping an A and possibly even at restoring the marriage... in CERTAIN situations.
I was not recommending that Q treat the "adultery" with empathy, just that he not get all worked up over this one "battle" while loosing sight of the "war."
You are absolutely right, he is NOT as "important" to his W RIGHT NOW, as OM is. But the key words in your sentence are "right now." Feelings/behavior CHANGE... research shows that while some A's bust up marriages, most do NOT... they just make them miserable to be in for awhile. Odds are that Q will once again be "first" with his W, and filing for a quick D would sabotage that very likely possibility...
My question for you is this... Why would Q want to forfeit his main objective (getting W back) by divorcing W, when there is no guarantee that threatening such a step will secure his objective? That strategy only makes sense if the M is completely expendable to a particular H, and it is clealy not expendable, to Q!
I can see that you think M should be treated like a business deal. I respect that view, but when negotiating deals, sometimes some pawns must be sacrificed in order to get to the queen. Whether or not OM and W just play kissy face, or really heat things up in a motel or not... those are just PAWNS in this deal, when all is said and done. The queen he needs to capture is W's emotions, and the king is SAVING THE M. I was only recommending that he not sweat over a few lost pawns... I am not saying that adultery is "okay."
First for all I don't perceive the approach that I am recommending as "hardline". What it recognizes is that spouses have the right to make choices as how they want to live . In fact, I believe the hardline approach is the one which doesn't respect the right of married adults to make choices and forces the unhappy spouse to stay against her will. In Q's case his wife is in a turmoil about what to do (guilt vs.family obligations( and is debating whether to take her affair to the next level. Meanwhile, Q is viewed by his wife as a horrible person who is preventing her happiness with the OM.. That is why I feel It is important for Q to come across as a loving, thoughtful husband who will not stand in the way of her happiness rven if means filing for divorce. It is at this point, the fantasy begins to crack and reality begins to set in. She is going to have to think about what kind of life she is going to have as a single person with the OM ? Is the OM really interested in marrying her or is he only using her? What kind of stepfather will he be to the children??How will her parents and family view her? Will they accept this OM in their lives. Will he cheat on her in the future as he is doing with his live-in girlfriend?
Interesting...about pushing the envelope in order to get the fantasy to crack. That could work... assuming it IS a fantasy. Some affairs are hopeless fantasies, while some are, in reality, truly all-around "better deals" for a spouse than the M itself, and of course most A's fall somewhere in between those two extremes... they are just a flawed "alternative" to an equally flawed marriage. I feel that "pushing the envelope" in those situations, forcing the spouse to make a decision, may make them panic and choose the OP, out of TEMPORARY feelings of frustration with the OLD flaws of the M, as opposed to the NEW flaws of the affair, which feel more tolerable, simply because they are new.
IF Q believes that his wife's A is indeed a fantasy that will burst on close inspection, and IF IF IF he believes his wife will truly relinquish the fantasy once provided with enough "reality checks" then your method is sound!
But trust me, a lot of W's will still hold out hope for OM even when he proves to be an unsatisfactory alternative. Sometimes, an H could provide proof to their W's that OM is a 9/11 terrorist, and it would STILL not "burst the fantasy bubble," the W would find some way to justify or excuse that. It's not easy to burst a fantasy, and sometimes the harder you try, the more the person clings to it... it depends how EMOTIONALLY invested they are in it, which is why I recommend Q focus his main efforts on appealing to W's emotions...
Right now I am sure OM is telling her that she means the world to him. It will be hard for H to compete with that kind of romantic conviction about her (which is what women want), while threatening to file D. Talk about mixed messages. If I were Q, I would be sitting down trying to write the best and most heartfelt love letter of my life, instead of rattling OM's cage or hiring PI's. I would be offering W a fantasy to compete with OM's fantasy... showing her that her M can also incorporate her fantasies, that she does not truly need OM for that. That point must be made NOW, before it's too late.
I don't disagree with your approach, I think it's shrewd and manipulative and I have zero problem with that. Like I say, it might work in certain situations. But let's call a spade a spade... the pretty rationales you provide for taking this approach don't hold water. Why not just call it what it is... taking concrete actions to try to get the affair to self destruct. Nothing wrong with that! But don't pretend it's anything more noble than that, like "freeing the wife to be happy." Like you say, everyone is an adult who can make their own choices. She does not need him to "free" her from the marriage, she can free herself, if she wants. SHE can file for D. She knows that, and so she would not interpret H's steps toward D as "lovingly trying to free her" she will likely interpret it as him being fed up with her and truly wanting to end the M. Or, if she's really smart, she will interpret it as what it is... clever manipulation, a gambit, and (if he follows thru) a willingness to loose her just because she's not currently behaving herself.
WOW. Thank you to everybody who replied to the last posting and I enjoyed the discussion. I have been out of town for many days and am back now to provide an update.
I did not send the aforementioned email to OM. I did send it to my W and she found it to be very powerful, and urged me not to send it. In trying not to be demanding and ultimatum-making, I agreed. While I was away my W met with OM for the "last time" so that she could have some closure to her affair. Interestingly enough, she bumped into OM a few days before in a crowded social situation with our kids and his partner, and she said that at that point the bubble burst and the "spell was broken" for her.
I have not questioned her about her final meeting, but I know that it took place in a place where they would not be physically intimate. And, as far as I can discern, she has been true to her word and has not had any contact with OM since that time.
We are getting along fine for the last couple of days since my return, but have been so busy that we have not really talked or had any time alone together. All I know is that I feel very loving toward her and optimistic. A drastic change from a few days ago. I think the thing that has made the most difference is that I'm not reading any emails between her and OM. I know that was a terrible thing to subject myself to, but I felt compelled to know at the same time. So, the advice not to spy is good advice, if objective is to feel better. However, by spying I know that my wife has had no contact with OM, and I feel good about that. I guess it's a double-edged sword.
I have read DB in the last few days as well, and plan to follow the principles outlined therein. I imagine that my W will also read it if she has not already.
I hoped not to be here again posting my on-going saga of a wife who has been having on emotional affair and the ordeal of trying to save a marriage in the face of that. When I last wrote my W had gone over a week with no contact with OM after a final meeting. However, I find yesterday that after I told her I'd be out of town late next month she has emailed OM asking him if he's going to be around!
I don't know the details of their last and maybe-not-so-final-meeting, but she says they did not kiss. So what does she want to see him again for? What does she want to do this time? I guess I'm just unsure what to do... again.
I thought that we had things straight. There would be one final meeting and that would be all. So if she contavenes this understanding, where does that leave me? I am at odds as to which strategy to follow and could use your inputs.
Should I a) continue to live my life to the fullest in her presence and more or less ignore her in my life and in my house. Allowing her to see me as confident, fun, happy and a great father? Should I shun physical contact (of which she offers none anyways) and not pay attention to her? or b) try to figure out what OM is offering her and what needs he is meeting and try to meet those needs myself. Should I continue to be a bastion of support and understanding while letting her sneak around under my nose?
I have read DB and I'm just not entirely sure. I can try to work on myself, my own behaviours, and my reactions to her... but I'm running out of energy. As you know, this is all give, give, give and I'm getting nothing in return. At this point it is looking tempting to me to find a lover of my own because I'm becoming starved for some kind of attention, affection and love.
