Still detaching and embracing my new normal

[grok]

You were right, as usual. He's a grown man. And he has a lot of sh!t to figure out.

Yes, they do. And the more detached you get...without W or H goggles on... the more you see it.

After that baseball bat to the gut... I've wondered if we the LBS are not just now seeing them for who they really are, at least right now, instead of our "love" idealized version. ... where we excused or accepted behaviors where a better sort of love would be to call them on it ... or let them figure their sh!t out.

I quickly screenshotted, cropped and sent part of 1 of the emails, including the arrangement and the delivery address. Yup - not my address....

Well, you could find out who is at that address ... though that is snooping. Not so sure that is worth while unless knowing will gain you something more than the damage you take.

And just like that, I'm a part of the stat that most MLCers have an affair.

With dark humor and affection, welcome to this part of the clubhouse. We have room for you here. Fresh batch of cookies. Water is hot for tea or fancy pour-over coffee. Or perhaps that new bottle of red wine someone brought in the other day is your choice today. Put your feet up for a while and let those feeling cycle though. Time enough later for choosing actions.

g

[Valeska19]

I'm really sorry MG. I'm sure this is not what you wanted to see.

I second what everyone else is saying in regards to no actions. Emotions are high and rightfully so. Now is the time to allow them to wash over you.

Turn off the phone. Put away the emails and social medias. Pull up a box and tissues and just let it out. And if you have a RL friend that you have confided in during this journey - get the support.

Don't engage with H. There are no answers or conversations to lessen the pain.

There will be another time for to discuss how to move forward. For now - it is time to take extremely good care of yourself.

((MG))

[MamaG]

I let it out and I let it out some more. And, I'm coming to terms with having reached my limit. It took two years. H has broken me down. What we stood for is no longer. Twenty-four months of suffering is outweighing the 32 years of goodness he's provided. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I mourned H's absence.
I mourned our M.
I mourned the future I thought we had.

Why am I a mess all over again? What could be left mourn?

Ahh....the kids...

I love our kids and I've considered standing for their sake. For the family unit. Their little hearts. Their future of having 2 of each future celebration. I thought I knew the definition of broken home. It's called a broken home for a reason.

At this point, I'm not sure what the definition of winning looks like. The idea of looking at their father who once meant so much to all of us. That's a lot to ask of myself. Today, H is an absent body who does a lot of complaining and lives for his happiness he can't seem to find. I'm not competing. Call me weak. Call me strong. Let 'em.

I now focus on re-forgiving the man I once knew. Love H. Forgive the sin. This, this may take forever. I hope I can get there. For me.

I communicated 2 simple boundaries. Stay out of jail. Do not step outside our marriage. Apparently, I asked for too much.

Confusion. Hurt. Emptiness. Heaviness. Sorrow. Even I can't fix this. Drop the rope. Fully. Fully, drop the rope.

Is divorce what I want?
Do I file bc the avoidant never will?
Do I tell our adult kids?

Year after year, February proves to be the longest short month.

[DnJ]

Hello MG

Is divorce what I want?
Do I file bc the avoidant never will?
Do I tell our adult kids?

Do nothing for at least one week. It’s impossible to unring a bell. Let your emotions settle before you make any major decisions. As you settle, you’ll likely find that need/want to do something will fade.

It took two years. H has broken me down.

I know it hurts. (((Hugs)))

You will get through this. Honest.

What we stood for is no longer.

Now, you discover what you stand for.

MG, H’s actions/behaviours do not dictate your’s. The moment just before you found out about H’s affair you were on a certain path, in a certain direction. So, what changed? I mean, what really changes for you. For your growth and life.

We've been getting hit with various bouts of snow over the last couple weeks. Shoveling continues to serve as a gym pass. It's been cold; colder than most Jan/Feb. High heating bills consume side-conversations. Today, I'm grateful for the physical strength I've been graced with while I sooth the emotional side. It's been a day.

It's been a bit since I've stopped in. I don't share much about what I don't need help with and I find myself journaling here when I need a shoulder to cry on or when I'm in need of support.

GALing continues strong. I spent an hour wrapping a number of gifts for several upcoming celebrations - remember my family celebrates EVERYTHING. It's a wonderful thing. Work remains busy and a great outlet. Dog1 and dog2 are a great comfort and have been showing up in many ways. You'll see why as you read through my update.

Yes, there will be a rising of extreme emotions. Temporary emotions. They will expectedly be reinforced for a spell, while you grieve (anger, bargaining, depression) and find acceptance of this new information. And then, those strong feelings will lessen.

H’s behaviour does not determine your path. You do. You control you. Thoughts. Actions. Reactions.

Give H to the man upstairs. Let Him work on H for a time. You get back to you.

(By the way, it’s super cold here too! And a stupid amount of snow! This morning it was -32C with around a -45C windchill. It’s being blowing so much lately. I clear the lane, and a day later, snow and wind and the drive is full again. Ten days in a row! Five times, over a foot of snow to clear! Brrrr. Really looking forward to spring. )

I communicated 2 simple boundaries. Stay out of jail. Do not step outside our marriage. Apparently, I asked for too much.

What were/are your predetermined actions if H violated your boundary?

I now focus on re-forgiving the man I once knew. Love H. Forgive the sin. This, this may take forever. I hope I can get there. For me.

An excellent and most worthy goal, IMHO.

Some “hopefully” helpful clarity for you.

“re-forgiving the man I once knew.” - It’s likely the newer alien version of H you’re trying to forgive. Good old H, is/was just that. Good. 32 years of goodness likely does not require forgiving.

“Love H. Forgive the sin.” - Absolutely. You forgive the deeds. The actions. The transgressions. The sins. Not “directly” the person; not the soul. The soul is God’s bailiwick.

“Love H. Forgive the sin.” - Like you wrote, two separate things. Loving H doesn’t necessitate liking him or more precisely his behaviour. It’s like a general love of your fellow man. And can be more of that old love as well, though “old love” is not a requisite for forgiveness.

I quickly screenshotted, cropped and sent part of 1 of the emails, including the arrangement and the delivery address. Yup - not my address....

M: Did she like them?
M: Are you going to tell the kids or should I?
H: crickets....

Drop the rope. Fully. Fully, drop the rope.

Yep, drop the rope. Or be dragged.

Let H feel what it’s like to be separated/divorced.

My two cents: Don’t tell the kids. And let H do the heavy lifting.

You got this.

D

[MamaG]

As usual DnJ, lots of good advice. You're a wise man.

Do nothing for at least one week. It’s impossible to unring a bell. Let your emotions settle before you make any major decisions. As you settle, you’ll likely find that need/want to do something will fade.

Yes, there will be a rising of extreme emotions. Temporary emotions. They will expectedly be reinforced for a spell, while you grieve (anger, bargaining, depression) and find acceptance of this new information. And then, those strong feelings will lessen.

In the moment, I wanted to blast this new information everywhere. I know better. And, you were in my thoughts....24 to 48 hours. I fought the rational thoughts and sent the text to H. Not sure that I regret it - truth darts are needed and overdue. I've been so un-engaged. Uninvolved. Non-confrontational. In the dark. In that moment, I didn't want that anymore. I wanted to scream from the rooftop to tell everyone. Validation seeking.

Two days later and already I feel lighter emotions.

What were/are your predetermined actions if H violated your boundary?

This made me pause. In my mind, it is clear what I meant but as I reflect on the words, I really wasn't clear. Still, these are low expectations of a H and still, he couldn't come through.

As I remember, my words were and have been, "Have you done something that would put you in jail? Have you cheated on me? If not, then we'll figure it out."

To me, the message is clear. And, unnecessarily stated. Still, here we are. And now I need to sit still in my thoughts and flush it out. Am I ready to dissolve my marriage? Thanks to this group, I know I can make it without H. It's my babies. My adult babies. Both of which continue to hold onto the idea of their family.

“re-forgiving the man I once knew.” - It’s likely the newer alien version of H you’re trying to forgive. Good old H, is/was just that. Good. 32 years of goodness likely does not require forgiving.

I forgave him 2/2023 when he had lied to me that he'd been eating edibles for 2 years and failed to tell me.
I forgave him 2/2023 when he said he cheated on me and then took it back (happens to be with the same OW of today). Was he in limerence then and this whole time? Thoughts?
I forgave him 9/2023 when he needed space because I was controlling.
I forgave him 9/2023 when he wanted a divorce because he'll never make lists; he'll never plan a vacation.
I forgave him 9/2023 when he re-wrote history.
I forgave him 10/2023 when he needed to house hunt and expedite a divorce due to irreconcilable differences.
I forgave him 10/2023 when he told me that if he stayed with me, he'd end his life.
I forgave him 12/2023 when he left our home and then kept coming around.
I forgave him 1/2024 when he wanted to talk everyday but never called.
I forgave him 2/2024 when he wanted to come for dinners 2x a week but then he was too tired from long days.

Then I learn about MLC and I continue to forgive him, through a different view.

I forgave him 2/2024 when I had breast cancer removed and he came to take care of me only to fall asleep on the couch and then asked me for water since I was up anyway.
I forgave him 3/2024 when he would come to the house and napped on the couch because he couldn't sleep at home, but then ran home to do laundry.
I forgave him 3/2024 when he told me that he was going to talk to OW and to others who have recently divorced to see if that's what he wants.
I forgave him 5/2024 when he went to the OW's home town for mother's day.
I forgave him 7/2024 when he went to SC for a concert with her.
I forgave him over and over again when he called their relationship a friendship. It's been a ride of many bumps and bruises. Lots of tears. Lots of forgiveness.

And now a romantic grand gesture for his friend...

At some point, his MLC behaviors outperform the good 'ole years. Is that where I am? I'll give it a week or two.

Don’t tell the kids. And let H do the heavy lifting.

Will he ever? What will it look like if my kids find out from someone else? Or run into him? Their little hearts shouldn't have to endure that.

Today, I made an update that informed my H via an auto text (from the cell phone company) that the billing address has been updated. I've been paying for the 4 cell phones. Not anymore. He can pick up that tab now.

Dropped off the tax file without his house info. He can drop it off at the accountant's. I don't need to be the middle person.

He has crossed a line. The bold flashy line that I have highlighted often enough for him to not have crossed it. I'm a different person. My outlook has changed. Findings on 2/15/25 are the straw that may have just broken the camel's back.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

I’ve been there, the desire to blast out new information. To feel validated.

The 24-48 hours is of course for you. It’s to give one that precious gift of time and reflection. To allow one to respond, if they so chose to, from a place of more logic and reason rather than raw emotions. A better honed truth dart.

In your case, your truth dart sounded spot on. Short and to the point. No swearing or blaming or such. Just factual and direct.

Such truth darts do sometimes dislodge these stuck folks. It might get H moving again. To what end, well it’s his path. Time will tell.

Today, I made an update that informed my H via an auto text (from the cell phone company) that the billing address has been updated. I've been paying for the 4 cell phones. Not anymore. He can pick up that tab now.

Dropped off the tax file without his house info. He can drop it off at the accountant's. I don't need to be the middle person.

Good.

Don’t tell the kids. And let H do the heavy lifting.

Will he ever? What will it look like if my kids find out from someone else? Or run into him? Their little hearts shouldn't have to endure that.

My statement was/is more for the right now.

Will H ever file for divorce? I don’t know. You are prepared in case he does. And divorce is always an option you can employ if you need to.

As for your adult kids. Whenever and whatever they bring up, definitely discuss with them. However, problems between you and H are just that - between you and H. No need to drag them into it.

Yes, it is likely that at some point the kids will find out about Dad’s affair. Heck, they might even know or suspect already. You tossed a truth dart allow some time for H do this heavy lifting with coming clean to the kids.

That being said, at some point I agree you should/would tell the kids. When is that point? When it is needed. When it serves. When it isn’t done out of retribution or retaliation.

Remember, it’s not your job to facilitate the relationship between Dad and his kids. It’s just your job to not destroy it.

I found most times my kids knew much more than I did about XW/Mom and her behaviour. It was very little of letting the cat out of the bag on my part, and much more affirming and confirming my kids’ feelings. That gentle steering.

At some point, his MLC behaviors outperform the good 'ole years. Is that where I am? I'll give it a week or two.

I’d not compare.

Their MLC behaviour does outperforms the good ‘ole years. They’re are a different person. An alien. Their present “self”, there is no way you’d even date them.

It’s ok to remember the immutable past, the good ‘ole days, fondly. (Don’t get lost going down memory lane though. That pitfall is more ensnaring for newbies.)

It’s ok to despise the present behaviour. This is area of forgiveness.

Focusing on you. Letting go. GAL. Are methods to keep one somewhat insulated from this current mess. The MLCer’s behaviours and actions and words are like acid and will eat away one’s love.

It’s a balance. Not living in denial. Not embroiled within their storm. Not riding the rollercoaster. Living and loving your life. Boundaries help.

This made me pause. In my mind, it is clear what I meant but as I reflect on the words, I really wasn't clear. Still, these are low expectations of a H and still, he couldn't come through.

As I remember, my words were and have been, "Have you done something that would put you in jail? Have you cheated on me? If not, then we'll figure it out."

I agree these are pretty standard expectations of a spouse.

The way you stated them, are more like expectations, like wants. There is no stated boundary here.

Remember a boundary is for you. It’s not a punishment or some tactic to get H to behave better. It’s a premeditated and predetermined method to extract you from situations you find intolerable.

“H, when you do (blank), I feel disrespected. If you disrespect me, I will (action).”

An example: When you swear at me it is disrespectful. If you swear I will leave the room and not speak with you.

A boundary on cheating is usually difficult for one to craft. I think we look for the consequence, our predetermined action, to somehow be equivalent to the transgression. We try to craft something to demonstrate just how serious it is. Of course, an action of “I will divorce you”, doesn’t give much wiggle room, nor what we really want.

Something along the lines of “while you are with OW, you are not with me” I think is more palatable. It also has an element of “we can figure it out, if/when you get your act together”.

H, while you are involved with OW, you are not involved with me. I will not speak with you, visit with you, nor have you over at my house.

And be rock solid on your boundary. (Pretty much the Last Resort Technique.)

This places the ball squarely in H’s court. It’s on him. You are focusing solely on you and the kids. Letting go. Moving forward. Figuring out why and what you stand for.

I don’t think this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back. I think it’s the straw that uncovers just how strong you are, and what your foundations/convictions truly are.

Have a great day.

D

[Valeska19]

palatable. It also has an element of “we can figure it out, if/when you get your act together”.

H, while you are involved with OW, you are not involved with me. I will not speak with you, visit with you, nor have you over at my house.

This ^^^^^^!

And it gives you the space to really figure out what your dealbreakers are.

Time and space away from your H will help you find the answer. You are either going to say "I can live with this" or "I can't". But that decision requires you to be centered and living in your moral code.

It requires you to be 100% focused on your well being.

[MamaG]

Right now, "while you are with her, you are not with me" is easy to buy. A no-brainer. I am not struggling with this one. Two months from now....well....let's just say that I've been known to forgive and cycle. Somehow, I talk myself into he's mentally ill and I need to forgive. A glutton for punishment.

I tend to not speak my boundaries. I implement.

Can you help me with actions/inactions for these scenarios? Remember I'm better at not reaching out to him than I am when he's in front of me.

1. I dropped off the tax file and it needs mtg info from him. I didn't tell the acct. I haven't reminded H since the initial request. When acct calls for info, do I ask him to contact H directly? Be upfront now with acct about the missing info and ask that they reach out to H for it? Or, be the mediator since this is between H and I? Is there an option #4?

2. Daughter's car is in both our names. Do I get D involved to get him to sign it over? Or, is this another business item between H and I and I should leave her out of it?

3. If by some huge miracle, he responds to my text from 2/15, do I respond?

Thank you DnJ and Valeska.

I never did get back to the second half of Divorce Remedy. I'll re-read the last resort. Let's see if I can straighten the camel's back. Unconditional love is bittersweet.

[Valeska19]

Right now, "while you are with her, you are not with me" is easy to buy. A no-brainer. I am not struggling with this one. Two months from now....well....let's just say that I've been known to forgive and cycle. Somehow, I talk myself into he's mentally ill and I need to forgive. A glutton for punishment.

I try to remember that forgiveness does NOT mean okaying a behavior. Neither does acceptance.
Think of it more as loving from a distance.

1. I dropped off the tax file and it needs mtg info from him. I didn't tell the acct. I haven't reminded H since the initial request. When acct calls for info, do I ask him to contact H directly? Be upfront now with acct about the missing info and ask that they reach out to H for it? Or, be the mediator since this is between H and I? Is there an option #4?

Think of short term versus long term goals.

Short term - you may have to be the mediator...because taxes aren't something to mess with.

Long term - how do you set it up that you file differently for 2025.

2. Daughter's car is in both our names. Do I get D involved to get him to sign it over? Or, is this another business item between H and I and I should leave her out of it?

Short Term - I wouldn't get my child involved as this was a decision made between parents.

Long Term - Not sure what the benefit would be you having him sign it over if your daughter is making the payments? If you are making the payments - then its another discussion

3. If by some huge miracle, he responds to my text from 2/15, do I respond?

Absolutely not. You are dark unless its an emergency or the kids and technically your kids are adults so there shouldn't be too much to talk about.


I can't remember... have you spoken to a lawyer? If not - you need to. From there you can see what you can separate now versus with a "legal separation".

I'm all for allowing emotions to wash over you but in your case... I think it's totally okay that your anger is pushing you a little to stick up for yourself. I agree that in two months - you may not be as determined to protect yourself.

I've seen alot of LBSers over the years delay this part of the journey because they believe it will push their spouse out the door faster. They are afraid that making their spouse angry will confirm the divorce.

He will get angry. Let him.

You have to really ground yourself in believing that you are doing these things out of acceptance of a pretty sh!tty situation. This isn't about vengeance or spite. It's not about punishing him.

It's about realizing the truth and taking the necessary actions that you are protected.

You have no control over the train. It is moving. You are just trying now to not get hit by it.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Forgiveness is for you. Like acceptance, forgiveness does not mean you condone the behaviour.

You can both forgive and hold H accountable.

1. I dropped off the tax file and it needs mtg info from him. I didn't tell the acct. I haven't reminded H since the initial request. When acct calls for info, do I ask him to contact H directly? Be upfront now with acct about the missing info and ask that they reach out to H for it? Or, be the mediator since this is between H and I? Is there an option #4?

I agree with V’s short term and long term approaches.

I’d be upfront with the accountant about H’s missing information and ask them to inquire it from H. It sounds like taxes are joint so I’d ask the accountant to include both you and H in all correspondences.

You should consider next year’s tax situation. Perhaps speaking to the accountant will yield a better approach given your current living accommodations and such.

Option #4 would be filing taxes individually, not jointly. Might be advantageous. Rent, mortgage, household expenses, etc. Speak with the accountant. (You might even do it for this year.)

2. Daughter's car is in both our names. Do I get D involved to get him to sign it over? Or, is this another business item between H and I and I should leave her out of it?

Are you looking to transfer ownership to daughter? And insurance I surmise.

In my locale, it matters not if car is in one spouse’s name or both, all vehicles are considered martial assets. In this case, daughter’s car is legally not her’s, it’s a joint asset. If you are looking forward to stave off some contention in a potential separation, I’d suggest getting the car transferred to daughter.

3. If by some huge miracle, he responds to my text from 2/15, do I respond?

If it’s business, and it requires a response, fine respond. Otherwise, no. Be dark.

D