You know the drill...

[Dynamiq]

It's difficult. You can be doing so well for a few days then something can knock you back. In this case it is W planning time away with the children with a lady friend and not with me. I didn't react. I responded that I was planning a work trip around the same time and didn't want to be away from the kids the extra few days. W was ok about it and said she would move her date.

I don't want another spring/summer of W taking kids away on separate trips. It was like this last year... "I'll go with my mum" or "it'll give you time to do work at the house". In reality it was to create distance in the relationship.

I don't want this continued dead marriage, no effort, sad situation. It's affecting the kids.

I get that forcing her back isn't the way. But how to wake her up, get her unstuck? She can't be happy living like this.

So some of the logistics of our sitch.

I gave lots of space from DB on.
maybe 10-15 R talks in 6 months (including those around BD and EA). I know we say no R talk but this doesn't seem like much.
No sex since before BD.
I have started some light touching as it felt natural the last few days.
Day to day we rarely text, we don't speak much except for logistics, kids are always there, she goes to D's room at D's bedtime. I try to ask about her day but mostly get short replies.
W has not returned to IC since Christmas.
W seems to think we will co-parent like this indefinitely.
Stuff gets done at home. We are both proactive enough to keep things ticking over.
There isn't much future planning going on. Not a great way to run a family...
I'm trying to match her energy, maybe leading/approaching slightly more but not easy when nothing's coming back.
I'm listening, making eye contact. Not much eye contact coming back.

W has got a bit more secretive on social media lately but she will leave her phone unlocked and leave the room. I tend not to snoop. Recently her and friends went for a night out. It was strange that I didn't see any of them posting pictures.

So I guess this seems like me obsessing over her still.

I see things clearly at times and then feel confused again. Maybe I'm grasping too much. Maybe confusion is ok. It just isn't comfortable for me. Is this too comfortable for her?

Remind me again. what am i wrong about?

[Boat14]

You want to see results and you are not seeing any and it’s frustrating to you. You are an impatient fixer who has probably always found a way when you encountered an issue. My guess is that you think if you keep trying the things you have been reading you can certainly fix this? I am going to be honest with you. You have three very young children and your W has one foot out the door. She is either really psychologically impaired or a lot of damage has been done. Either way it is going to take a really long time to turn this around. It is going to take a lot of changing on your part and infinite patience. Do you have it in you?

[Maturin]

I get that forcing her back isn't the way. But how to wake her up, get her unstuck? She can't be happy living like this.

This is the wrong question. Stop focusing on her, what she "should" do, what she might be feeling etc. I understand that your brain is directing all of your energy towards these questions. You need to manually override that loop and re-focus on yourself and your life. The GAL idea everyone here harps on really works. What do YOU want? How would you live if your W was abducted by aliens tomorrow?

I've been where you are and I know it's miserable. For years I tried to behave in a way that I hoped would guide my wife back to some version of our marriage that I thought would solve the problem. I was changing my behavior for her, not myself. This doesn't work. Detach, GAL, and take valued actions towards the things in your life that matter to YOU.

I can tell you with confidence that if you follow that process it will improve your life dramatically, to the point where you will be much less concerned with how your sitch resolves. You will realize that your W is the one who has to "fix" her issues, not you. All of that is up to her and beyond your power.

[Valeska19]

Boat is right on.

When I first posted to you - you admitted that you were controlling before retreating and saying "well not that much".

But based on your this post - it's very much true. You want to control the situation. BD was 6 months ago... and you're already tired. You want to give up. You want your way.

To me - you want to stay the same. You say how and when things are done. Well then you can't expect different results.

Like Boat said she's either impaired OR you have hurt her deeply. You are just automatically assuming the 1st in all of your posts. Will you even consider the 2nd? That perhaps - your need to control every aspect of your marriage and how she did things MIGHT actually lead her to not want to be married to you anymore?

It's difficult. You can be doing so well for a few days then something can knock you back. In this case it is W planning time away with the children with a lady friend and not with me. I didn't react. I responded that I was planning a work trip around the same time and didn't want to be away from the kids the extra few days. W was ok about it and said she would move her date.

So you are allowed to take off on a trip but not her... based off of reasons that are "acceptable" to you". What about the kids. Perhaps they would have liked the trip? Did you consider them in your "need" to be close to them

I don't want another spring/summer of W taking kids away on separate trips. It was like this last year... "I'll go with my mum" or "it'll give you time to do work at the house". In reality it was to create distance in the relationship.

You have no control over this.

I don't want this continued dead marriage, no effort, sad situation. It's affecting the kids.

Interesting - perhaps she feels the same.

I get that forcing her back isn't the way. But how to wake her up, get her unstuck? She can't be happy living like this.

So some of the logistics of our sitch.
I gave lots of space from DB on.
maybe 10-15 R talks in 6 months (including those around BD and EA). I know we say no R talk but this doesn't seem like much.
No sex since before BD.
I have started some light touching as it felt natural the last few days.
Day to day we rarely text, we don't speak much except for logistics, kids are always there, she goes to D's room at D's bedtime. I try to ask about her day but mostly get short replies.
W has not returned to IC since Christmas.
W seems to think we will co-parent like this indefinitely.
Stuff gets done at home. We are both proactive enough to keep things ticking over.
There isn't much future planning going on. Not a great way to run a family...
I'm trying to match her energy, maybe leading/approaching slightly more but not easy when nothing's coming back.
I'm listening, making eye contact. Not much eye contact coming back.

10-15 R talks isn't space.
My guess is that she isn't initiating $ex. The board would also most likely tell you not to if she did.
The board would also say to not initiate conversation however to engage and validate WHEN she does want to share.

W has got a bit more secretive on social media lately but she will leave her phone unlocked and leave the room. I tend not to snoop. Recently her and friends went for a night out. It was strange that I didn't see any of them posting pictures.

So I guess this seems like me obsessing over her still.

I see things clearly at times and then feel confused again. Maybe I'm grasping too much. Maybe confusion is ok. It just isn't comfortable for me. Is this too comfortable for her?

Remind me again. what am i wrong about?

You won't be honest with yourself. I personally don't see anywhere in your posts that you are a nice guy who has been walked all over the last 8 years of your marriage. I see a guy who judges her wife and resents her for things that absolutely has NOTHING to do with you. You seek to blame her verse understand her. It's your way or no way.

And I'm not sure you're ready to admit all of that.

[Valeska19]

You won't be honest with yourself. I personally don't see anywhere in your posts that you are a nice guy who has been walked all over the last 8 years of your marriage. I see a guy who judges her wife and resents her for things that absolutely has NOTHING to do with you. You seek to blame her verse understand her. It's your way or no way.

And I'm not sure you're ready to admit all of that.

I meant "I see guy who judges HIS wife and resents her for things that absolutely has NOTHING to do with HIM.

[Dynamiq]

So this morning I was in a much better place and thinking about my mood when I posted last night and how i was thrown so far off course by something so small. It was obvious to me, as it is to all of you, that I still haven't found the patience I need and my happiness is still too tied up in what's happening with my wife.

Valeska I'm going to dig deeper on what you have said before I'll reply to those points on control.

At BD I was taking 100% of the responsibility. When I found out about her 10month Affair then I swung to taking 50% or less. Now I am only looking control what I can control. But yes, figuring out what is OUTSIDE my control is another thing...

-"The board would also say to not initiate conversation however to engage and validate WHEN she does want to share."
Not initiating I understand if there is an active A but even in our sitch where I'm hoping to recover and just be myself and try to present some sort of normality for the kids?

[LetsHope]

None of this is easy, and I don’t think most of us know how to navigate these situations after BD. I know for me, I tried to control what I thought I could because my life felt and feels totally out of control. It’s a tough spot to be in.

I think it’s always helpful to reflect on our contributions to the marriage breakdown, even if we don’t feel we are 100% to blame. As you said, you took some responsibility, but it’s not your fault your spouse decided to have an EA. I tell myself the same thing, while I contributed to the breakdown, that part isn’t on me, you know?

I appreciate your posts, and I think you are learning and navigating this situation the best you can day to day. All we can really do is become the best versions of ourselves right?

[Boat14]

Normal married women with small children don’t stay out all night without being up to something.

If you want to find out than find out. If not put that all aside and decide what kind of person do you want to be moving forward and focus all your energy on that. The rest will eventually come to a head and work itself out.

[Dynamiq]

Val, I took a few days to think and read more about your post on control. I am taking my own growth seriously. I also read back through your own early posts. I just skimmed, didn't have time for it all. I read that control was an issue in your M so I see why you're getting out the big stick.

Thanks for sticking around so long to help us newbies out.

Was/am I a dictating tyrant? No.
Was I a nice guy doormat for 8 years? No.
(Nice Guy Syndrome can mean different things for different people. I might post later on that.)
The truth as always is somewhere in between.

Thinking about this particular issue of the trip. This is to our holiday some so dates are easy to change. Me mentioning that I'll miss the kids if I am away for 9 or 10 nights instead of 5 is progress for me. Before I would have said nothing and possibly got resentful. Maybe the next stage of my journey will be getting to the point where I'm OK being away from the kids for longer periods. For now, I guess I still haven't given up on the idea of family holidays. W in this case decided herself to change the dates, without me asking. Knowing i would miss the kids and showing some empathy for me.

Why did this trip trigger me? 2 reasons I think.
1. I must have an abandonment/loneliness/rejection wound. I guess that's why I'm posting here trying to keep my marriage and family together. Probably most of us here have some sort of abandonment issue.
2. My lowest point last year wasn't actually BD1 or BD2. It was before that. On my birthday when affair fog wife took herself and kids away to holiday home. She asked what I wanted for birthday, I just said spending time family (im not big on material things). She left me at home knowing I had made some commitments and couldn't go. That was a real low point for me. Rejected and alone on my birthday. Still a trigger.

That was when I started my journey, looking inside, trying to figure out why I was allowing my marriage to drift apart.

In general, yes I have an issue with needing to be right and good. A need to hide flaws and appear perfect. Control comes into this too. I know this is from childhood patterns and I've been addressing these.

Part of my nice guy recovery is actually stating my feelings, needs, wants and not suppressing them. HOWEVER, the more I learn about Ws people pleasing tendencies, I realise I have to be careful that she isn't going along, suppressing her own needs/wants. I need to find better ways of communicating and listening. I don't want to slide back on expressing my own feelings but I should look to do it in a way that doesn't compromise W's healing from her own people pleasing.

I do need to keep in mind that It shouldn't matter whether you are DBing or MLCing. The same rules should apply to both spouses.

GAL activities this weekend, exercise, home improvements, meeting friends. Got given some last minute tickets to gig that my friend couldn't attend. Cooked for my family and had a friend join us. Got a haircut and heard that my barber has an even crazier sitch than mine happening in his M.

Also, Valentines... I wrote a lighthearted little poem about wife (nothing romantic) and left it out for her to find along with some things for a nice breakfast and I left for work. She didn't acknowledge. I didn't expect her to and didn't expect anything to come of it. I did it more for the kids. So they would see how to treat their S someday and how they should expect to be treated. I know you all will say it was a mistake or not DB. Whatever. I'm not going to be the guy sitting here asking Internet strangers for advice before I make every choice in my life. I think thats a bad habit to get into and a bit too 'Nice Guy'. I do however welcome my perspective being challenged. I'm posting here to find out where I'm wrong.

[Valeska19]

Val, I took a few days to think and read more about your post on control. I am taking my own growth seriously. I also read back through your own early posts. I just skimmed, didn't have time for it all. I read that control was an issue in your M so I see why you're getting out the big stick.

Interesting. And what do you think you are seeing?

Also, Valentines... I wrote a lighthearted little poem about wife (nothing romantic) and left it out for her to find along with some things for a nice breakfast and I left for work. She didn't acknowledge. I didn't expect her to and didn't expect anything to come of it. I did it more for the kids. So they would see how to treat their S someday and how they should expect to be treated. I know you all will say it was a mistake or not DB. Whatever. I'm not going to be the guy sitting here asking Internet strangers for advice before I make every choice in my life. I think thats a bad habit to get into and a bit too 'Nice Guy'. I do however welcome my perspective being challenged. I'm posting here to find out where I'm wrong.

Might want to re-read this. You sound quite full of yourself. And TBH - disrespectful to us.

Multiple vets have told you to give her space and you continue to ignore us. What's the point of us pointing out the "wrong" when you are just going to do your own thing...

... which continues to bring me back to what I've challenging you on.

You always seem to have a reason to excuse your choices or behaviors. This is not helpful if you indeed want to save your marriage... which I’m not quite sure you do. Perhaps you just want things back to the way they were.