Did u experience all the stages of a MLC? If so what was each step like? I kinda think/hope H is in the withdrawal stage. He has definitely withdrawn from me and my youngest hasn't spoken to him either. He said they have a group text but YS hasn't participated. Just wondering since they tend to wear a mask, do they withdraw from everybody or is there cases in which they just withdraw from you? I believe my H's MLC started in 2017 and it may have started as early as 2015, that's when his father passed away. I believe he's the person that caused my H the most emotional pain during his childhood and even as an adult. I don't recall seeing any redflags during that time, I might have missed them, however in 2017 he started an EA with a girl at work, totaled our car and went to jail for DUI, definitely some flags there. 2018 had back surgery, 2019 lost his job of 15yrs failed drug test has smoked for yrs didnt think it would catch up with him, my mom passed away, lost another job for the same reason. I believe he was in MLC during all of that and was in the denial stage, IDK the stages get confusing cause they seem to be in and out and in and out of stages, they might come out of one stage then return to it. It's hard to tell when they've actually completed a stage. I try not to focus too much time on it, however I would b lying if I said I never think abt it. Just want to pick the brain of somebody that actually went through a MLC.
They withdraw from the spouse/partner first, then kids, pets, family and friends. They develop new relationships with people that do not know them, now share the same interests as they do and people who will not judge them or point out that they are acting strange. When they begin to come out of the crisis, they will do the exact opposite of what they did going into the crisis.
The stages are written as a guide. They are not set in stone. Each individual is unique, therefore their crisis will be unique. No two people will experience it the same way. Some go through the stages rather quickly and others don't. They can bounce back and fourth through the stages until all of their issues are resolved. Try to put the stages aside because they will confuse you when you are trying to figure out where he is at.
Also, if they are snatched out of the crisis for any reason, they will eventually go back into crisis and that crisis will be far worse.
When they are in crisis, the clock is very slow for them because they are depressed and very self absorbed and do not realize just how much time has passed. Some are very surprised when they children have grown up and moved on to college and/or married because they have missed out on all of the important milestones.
Many of them either forget most of what they did or they hope to sweep it under the rug because they are ashamed of what they have done. Some will apologize and others won't. However, do not think for one minute that they forget what you have said or done. Their memories of those things are very clear.
It took my former h a very, very long time to work through his issues. I finally got an email from him a year ago (24 years since his crisis began), whereby he apologized for destroying our marriage. He was one that was extremely slow in working through his issues.
I do understand trying not to think about the stages. I get it, I did it too. In fact, we all refer back to them periodically when dealing with a MLCer. We are fixers and we all try to fix what is broken, but we can't fix them. We can only fix ourselves while they are on the Mother Ship.
Hang in there.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job is correct. Everybodies journey through MLC is different in terms of time frames. A lot of the symptoms are the same but after that you can get years of cycling. She is also correct that you didn't break them so you can't fix them. You can only fix yourself and become the best you can be.
I will explain in general terms since it was what feels like lifetimes ago and it's a part of my past. Yes, I went through all the stages of MLC. In the beginning I thought I would document it and I did for about 6 weeks but the pain for me was so intense I stopped. Again, it was a struggle getting form sun up to sun down.
Most of the stages were accompanied by an intense depression. The accompanning depression was always there. I did not have the capacity to think about much else in my life except trying to survive this. Thank goodness I went internally into this and fought through it rather than the going outside with affairs, drinking etc. That would have been difficult to rectify after it was over. I fluctuated between, anger/depression, denial/depression and replay/depression most of the 2 1/2 years. Most of the time I spent in replay/depression. It was not until I hit rock bottom about 2 years into the MLC that I was finally able to get to withdrawal and expel out or complete my MLC journey. I can't go into detail what my issue was as I think that is mine and mine alone. I will say I was finally able to forgive myself and others. This forgiveness allowed me to hit withdrawal/exceptance. The final stage after the rock bottom moment took about 6 month's. Start to finish 2 1/2 years.
I hope this clarifies things for you but again, listen to Job. Your journey should have very little to do with him. If he chooses to do the work he has a chance to come out of this. As my Exw and Job's Exh can show you. MLC can be long as in there case over 10+ yrs.
Did u know u were in MLC? How did u come out of it? My H's counselor said he had childhood PTSD, I'm sure once he/she translated that, H quit going to see him/her.
Not at first. I didn't know anything about MLC. I started to think it may be an MLC about 6 month's into it. I remember looking into the mirror and asking " what the ---- is a matter with you? and "Why is this happening"? I would look in the mirror and it seemed like nobody was even staring back at me. Like I was an empty soul. At that point in my life I was happy, had a family and what I considered a good marriage and a good job. A pretty good life. So Why....
I remember asking a couple guys about it. Most of them didn't really want to discuss it so I felt isolated. I had one good friend that looked at me one day and said "dude you are messed up? what's going on?. I told him. He couldn't relate.
I started reading as much as I could about MLC. I didn't make it far most days as the depression just wouldn't allow it. But I did have a glimmer of hope when I read a book about a pastor, that had an MLC an ostresized his whole family. He wrote the book after he came through it. it gave me some hope. So I continued reading other authors/psychiatrist/psychologist and began to try and self therapy. I remember a quote in one of the books from Churchill "When your going through hell, keep going", so I did. Again the process was slow. like walking through mud. plus the MLC side of the brain was always saying don't do this. Give in to the temptation. The temptation was always some distraction.
As an off hand remark. I think I was a lucky one. I eventually knew it was an MLC. Most people and I know a couple that have gone through MLC's or are going through an MLC will say. NO, Not Me. I'm fine it's everybody else that's messed up. Don't they see I'm happy cheating on my spouse, leaving the kids, partying, etc, etc etc. Life is grand. Anything to distract them from the real pain going on inside them. So, they don't have a chance to get better, until they want to. You have to be intentional if you want to beat this from my point of view.
The books taught me to ask myself the tough questions. What I learned is if you don't ask yourself the right question, your never going to get the right answer. But the process is slow. I asked myself the tough questions for days/weeks on end. The answers came slowly but.....They came. So eventually I was able to process the pain into what it was actually about.
I may step on some toes here but, I don't think most therapist are equipped to handle MLC. You have to be a really well read therapist who get's it or you have been through one yourself to at least be in a position to help a person navigate MLC. Plus, if your right about your husband and a therapist get's to close to the pain, they run, that's what they do.
Hopefully this helps. Sorry if it's scattered but this was 18 yrs ago and I'm really testing the memory.
I don't think most therapist are equipped to handle MLC. You have to be a really well read therapist who get's it or you have been through one yourself to at least be in a position to help a person navigate MLC.
I agree.
Lots of people don’t or won’t believe in MLC. And even more folks never being exposed to, or around such a crisis have no reference. Before my situation I had no idea this world existed.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I may step on some toes here but, I don't think most therapist are equipped to handle MLC. You have to be a really well read therapist who get's it or you have been through one yourself to at least be in a position to help a person navigate MLC. Plus, if your right about your husband and a therapist get's to close to the pain, they run, that's what they do.
Hopefully this helps. Sorry if it's scattered but this was 18 yrs ago and I'm really testing the memory.
First off...
Mirage, my old friend...
I hope that you are doing well and the answers come more peaceful now than when we first met....
It's good to see you telling your story..
Secondly.
From my experience, MLC is very specific , because there are no two MLCs alike. Each of them are unique as their "owner" is, which makes it very difficult to formulate a clinical diagnosis.
MLC is however a depression, even though it only manifests in certain areas of a their life publicly.
MLC is very different however, behind closed doors. That is when their demons come out to play inside of their heads.
Most MLCers appear normal to the rest of the world, and only those closest to them get to see them with their "mask" removed.
Many see them as normal, and rational, even though what they are going through is an enormous internal rage.
Additionally, many therapists aren't equipped to address moral issues with a person. They merely try to treat the person and not their actions.
You aren't happy in your marriage ? Well then you should Divorce
Doesn't make it right, it just makes it seemingly easier...
And sadly, most clinicians have to formulate a diagnosis after the first visit for insurance purposes now, which is an enormous dis-service to the patient.
If an MLCer says that they are fine and nothing is wrong, who is the therapist to further evaluate them ?
They most likely only know them from the recent conversations, so to know them on a prior level typically does not happen.
I would venture though, that the biggest problem with a diagnosis would be getting an MLCer to actually admit that something wasn't right.
Most are so steadfast in their "new" life decisions that even they can't recognize how messed up their life has become.
And as my friend Mirage has said ??
They WILL run from anything that threatens their mindset.
Most good therapists will see through them, and send them running...
Most novice therapists will tell them to follow their happiness...
Either way, I haven't talked to any former (admitted) MLCers that kept a regular therapist schedule through their tunnel...
Listen to Mirage, and as long as he will keep opening up, hopefully you can learn from his wise words...
So if a therapist/ counselor can't help them how do they come out of it? Is it something they just snap out of one day? Also, I have read a lot of other post on here and haven't read too many success stories, a lot of exh/exw talk(that's not success in my opinion cause I choose to stand), in those ex situations was it the LBS that decide not to stand or the MLCer that chose to go ahead with a D?
So if a therapist/ counselor can't help them how do they come out of it? Is it something they just snap out of one day? Also, I have read a lot of other post on here and haven't read too many success stories, a lot of exh/exw talk(that's not success in my opinion cause I choose to stand), in those ex situations was it the LBS that decide not to stand or the MLCer that chose to go ahead with a D?
I think that success can mean very different things, and it will ebb and flow for you as time dealing with MLC goes on.
Right now ?
You are only seeing a very narrow version of success.
Because you are defining it on a very specific goal..
The success rate here is tremendous in my opinion...
Because I don't define success merely as remaining married or being divorced.
To be more specific though, there are success stories everywhere here.
You may not see them, or read about them because the majority of people who have reconciled have stopped posting, and their reconciliation stories have not been posted here.
I will tell you this though...
In the end..
EVERY story here, reconciled or not, has ultimately come down to the LBS's decision...
You asked how they come out of it? First off, they may go to a therapist once or twice and will not return because they do not want to hear what the truth may be. They want the therapist to tell them to go, have fun, experiment, and if you aren't happy, then maybe you need to separate/divorce your spouse/partner. They will only hang out with people who encourage them to do whatever it is they are doing at the time. Be it dressing as a teenager, using the teen lingo, drinking, doing drugs, bed hopping and just plain out acting like a teenager.
Depression works in mysterious ways. It is not all about sitting in corner with your head covered up. It can be experienced by those who are going through it in many ways. They get very emotional along the way, so the flare ups in anger or tears will come out to play.
The only way that they come out of it is that they have to go through the entire process from beginning to end w/o interruption by us. They have to grow up. They are experiencing growing up pains or teething as we once called it. You can't help them, you can't offer them advice unless they seek it from you. You have to leave them be, let them hit the brick walls until they are finally exhausted and come to realize that the next trip down the road isn't going to help them either. They have to hit bottom.
If you haven't read any of the other threads on the MLC Forum, I strongly urge you to do so. MLC has been around a very long time and the only reason we are seeing it now is because people are living longer and people are more apt to talk more openly about what is going on in their relationships.
The best thing you can do is keep the focus on you. If there are things about yourself that you aren't happy with, now is the time to think about working on them. I realize that you are trying to figure out what to do for him...but as a fixer, you can't fix him, you can't rush the process. All you can do is let go, let God have him for a while.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
