A little less lost? Pt 3

[Pattnee5]

My journey Continued
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2945506#Post2945506

[Pattnee5]

Nobody is a failure who makes a positive impact on another's life.

You really put this perfectly Sun and it is so true. It’s funny about 2 years ago H wrote me the most beautiful letter for my bday praising me, telling me how his life is amazing because of me and he wouldn’t have done half the things or seeing half the places in this world if it wasn’t for me, and how I was his soulmate and he will love me forever.
He too was an introvert, me an extrovert I planned all the holidays and he would always say how amazing they were and loved my determination and drive and how I pushed him outside his comfort zone ( now throws that in my face that I “spent too much money” )

I know I made his life absolutely amazing. Far better than the bland life he would have led without me ( I just have to look at the simplicity of his family to understand the path he would have followed of work work work pay of mortgage and retire and eat biscuits all day)

It amazes me how one person can completely flip mindsets in the space of 18 months. The alien that stole my husband is one evil person.

At the moment I am struggling within myself and hating myself A LOT for my infidelity 9 years ago. I do understand it was a symptom of an underlying issue that takes two, but the fact he has that now to throw in my face is really causing me alot of grief. My dear friend said that even if I had not done that he would have found something else now to blame on me and I suppose that’s quite right. It really is just difficult to re-live my trauma. I feel like he is now punishing me twofold because he always felt he “ let me off the hook”. That’s my biggest hurdle at the moment and the cause of a lot of my grief. I am grieving hard and he walks around without a care in the world or an ounce of emotion. I know I shouldn’t let his issues destroy me and I am not but it’s just that feeling in my heart like it physically hurts

I too am finding this is the absolute worst pain I have ever experienced, but am keeping it strong for the kids, because I am their pillar and have to show them their bad-ass mum is their absolute inspiration in this life.

I’ve been doing quite alot of self care, working, seeing friends over the coming days, walking, meditating some nights when I can’t sleep, having long baths, reading reading reading ( lots on mlc etc)
I feel so guilty and like a DB failure ( which I need to admit to you guys here) because I still have hope our paths will cross again and we can have a fresh start in a fresh marriage as two new people. I still have hope in years to come he may just re-align with me and I know that goes against everything in this 🫣😭

[DnJ]

Hello Patt

I feel so guilty and like a DB failure ( which I need to admit to you guys here) because I still have hope our paths will cross again and we can have a fresh start in a fresh marriage as two new people. I still have hope in years to come he may just re-align with me and I know that goes against everything in this 🫣😭

Hope is not failure. Hope is an incredible wellspring of strength and fortitude. Hope is timeless.

Expectations is hope with a timeframe or deadline upon it. And nothing kills hope faster than a deadline. (Dead, it’s in the name - deadline.) Keep your hope. Do not let anyone take away your hope.

Do realize, hope can ensnare someone as well. One can get paralyzed in hope. Become stagnate and unmoving and un-living. So hope, while continuing to move forward.

To be accurate, that stuck in hope is more living in denial masquerading as being hopeful. I suspect you’ll be able to avoid that outcome by knowing about it.

By the way, your hopes will likely alter, grow, and evolve as you heal and grow. Hopes becoming more belief and convictions than thought and feelings. Personally, I believe having hope is perfectly aligned with DB.

I too am finding this is the absolute worst pain I have ever experienced…

it’s just that feeling in my heart like it physically hurts

Oh my how I remember that. Yes, the absolute worse pain ever experienced! Heartbreak, withdrawal, such incredible physical manifestations of pain. One’s psyche “feels” in the chest area. A hurt psyche - like a lost love, and one’s heart hurts.

At the moment I am struggling within myself and hating myself A LOT for my infidelity 9 years ago.

P, this is a path you’ve got to walk. Find your peace with this. Forgive yourself. (((Hug)))

D

[Pattnee5]

Hope is not failure. Hope is an incredible wellspring of strength and fortitude. Hope is timeless.

Expectations is hope with a timeframe or deadline upon it. And nothing kills hope faster than a deadline. (Dead, it’s in the name - deadline.) Keep your hope. Do not let anyone take away your hope.

Do realize, hope can ensnare someone as well. One can get paralyzed in hope. Become stagnate and unmoving and un-living. So hope, while continuing to move forward.

D

Wow D you always know what to say and spin someone’s perspective. Here I was feeling guilty for having hope and feeling like I am failing in DB and you have given me another way to look at it. You are right I may have held on to some deadline for selfish reasons.

This still seems so unreal and like it’s not happening. I feel like I’ve fallen into an alternate universe. A friend just told me “just because something feels final and done at this particular moment, nothing ever is “ I think because I have been beating myself up for two days saying we are done for good it’s over there’s no chance now etc.

I have some friends coming over tomorrow to cheer me up, might take the kids to the museum or something. For my self care I am looking at trying maybe a kinesiology session. Never heard of it but a friend at work said she enjoyed it. Something out of left field and completely like me I have always been very black and white, however now any possible way that I can actually heal my broken heart I am willing to try anything. I’ve stopped alcohol I know it’s no help in this state and I don’t want it unless I am more balanced.

I still feel absolutely completely defeated. Like I have just given up completely now.

[Pattnee5]

I messed up this morning 😭 my brain was in overload this morning I was thinking “why would H want to return to this marriage what has changed for him” and I kept thinking about all the self growth and self realisation of my neglect during the year and how I put others ahead and just let him coast without checking in more. I felt so guilty and throufh tears I sent him a message 😔😔
I apologised for neglecting him as a lover as a husband and most importantly let our best friend status slip. I told him I have changed so much within myself and I don’t want us to separate and I want a new beginning a fresh start with him as I believe in us as the soulmates we always thought we were.
I know please scold me immensely for this.
He did respond thanking me for apologising and also apologised for his neglect. He then proceeded to say “you know how I feel and what I want and you need to accept that”.
I guess I deserved another crushing moment.

I took myself off for a walk felt horrible within myself and the fact that I am still clinging to this marriage which I strongly believe still has a heartbeat somewhere buried under the rubbish.
He came past later in the day to pick up S12 and take him out for an activity. I was busying myself at the time doing housework with music on changing the sheets and he came in to help. I told him it wasn’t necessary but he insisted and even threw a few “ friendly smiles”. I honestly felt dead inside. Only 7 months ago this man was lying in this bed hugging me telling me he loves me and now we are here. I didn’t really go out of my way to interact much more after that. He is still full steam ahead saying he is working out financials before we sit and discuss things then proceed to lawyers. I know this man, I lived with him for 20 years I know him better than anyone even better than himself. I am not convinced he is 100% sure on this and is rather just going through the motions because he has said it he now needs to go through with it. He has been on a see saw for months giving me false hope he is coming out of it with spending time together touching affection, only now to slam the lawyer move on our anniversary. Goodness me I hate my friend “expectation”

Anyway I am ok despite my absolute rubbish move this morning. Everyone ( and I mean everyone) around me keep telling me that the only way he will possibly get himself together or sorted is if I “kick him to the curb”. Everyone is telling me to tough love him but I am far too kind. It’s not even out of guilt or anything. I vowed for good and bad and this is the bad so why can’t I walk away.

How can it be so incredibly hard for me to tough love him. I can now see nothing I do or say is working in helping him return to his former self or home. I tried to be nice and allow the contact when he wanted, allowed the spending time together the hugs.I can absolutely see that didn’t even work for a second so why am I finding this so darn hard. I think it comes from if I give up on him he will have absolutely nobody and I was the one that was always determined in everything and was never going to give up on him. I needed to be that lighthouse but he doesn’t even want a lighthouse. And boy oh boy my mind is playing some horrible tricks now, making me question is the mlc even real or am I clutching at reasons.

I really am right back at square one now I feel. I’ve read “you will not die” over and over again today and everyone keeps saying I will be ok. But it sure doesn’t feel like it.

I have moments of feeling really good and strong and getting my power back then out of nowhere my roller coaster hurtles toward the ground. The one positive thing is I no longer miss him next to me at night anymore. I no longer want to tell him exciting stuff that’s happened in my day. So small win but right now I’ll take anything

I’m sorry for my vent. I know my family and friends are getting sick of it but don’t understand.

[Pattnee5]

Slightly better day today. Buried myself in work, watched D14 last night play hockey, walked the dog in the beautiful sunshine, and had my dear friend over with her son who is 10 and we all played Catan( board game ) with the kids.
Did my best to avoid H as much as I could. He was with kids for part of the day and when we crossed paths he proceeded to tell me he had done all the washing and sorting and put stuff away. He even put the sheets away in the high cupboard which he has NEVER done. All I said was “ you didn’t have to do that”. Felt bad I didn’t even say Thankyou I just busied myself and left the room.
Ughhh connection with boundaries how do you even do it without having a resting b**ch face ( pardon the pun)

[Sunflyer]

Only 7 months ago this man was lying in this bed hugging me telling me he loves me and now we are here. I didn’t really go out of my way to interact much more after that. He is still full steam ahead saying he is working out financials before we sit and discuss things then proceed to lawyers. I know this man, I lived with him for 20 years I know him better than anyone even better than himself. I am not convinced he is 100% sure on this and is rather just going through the motions because he has said it he now needs to go through with it. He has been on a see saw for months giving me false hope he is coming out of it with spending time together touching affection, only now to slam the lawyer move on our anniversary. Goodness me I hate my friend “expectation”

I get this. Less than six months ago in my case. Yet here I am at the lawyer stage. I continue to hope for the best and plan for the worst. And by planning for the worst, I mean planning so that I am protected and taken care of in my future.

Went out to the park last evening, just to clear my head. I make sure to get out and do things as much as possible. When home I keep busy doing laundry, helping my son get ready for college, and spend some time down in my basement "man cave" working on cleaning out and organizing my stuff. Amazing what you can accumulate in 23 years. I could open a warehouse if I wanted to.

Anyway I am ok despite my absolute rubbish move this morning. Everyone ( and I mean everyone) around me keep telling me that the only way he will possibly get himself together or sorted is if I “kick him to the curb”. Everyone is telling me to tough love him but I am far too kind. It’s not even out of guilt or anything. I vowed for good and bad and this is the bad so why can’t I walk away.

Because you take that vow you made seriously. You promised not to walk away during the bad as well as the good, and you aren't. He is.

I feel the same, but I know that I can't change her mind by pleading or begging. Is it hard? Sure, it's hard, but right now, my main focus is on myself and our sons. She is walking her path and by all indications is plowing straight ahead to divorce with no looking back. Reason she gives: she's unhappy, she can't do this anymore, we've grown apart bla bla bla. Maybe once we're separated she will be smiling with joy every day; maybe she won't. Maybe she'll find another man and if he disappoints her, she will then conclude that there are no good men out there.

Or maybe she'll look in the mirror and ask her own hard questions. But that's her circus, not mine.

Your H is going to have to face the same reckoning sooner or later. He needs to understand that he can choose to be happy or not. He could be happy with you in his life; after all, he was not long ago. He will say he can't do it; what he really means is he won't do it. Too many people cling to that word "can't," and it holds them back from many things in life.

[Pattnee5]

Thanks Sun. I feel like I am a million steps behind everyone else right now. H is still trying to do a lot of the heavy lifting at home with chores and errands which feels like a slap in the face because these were one of the reasons why he wanted to leave
I gotta put my big girl pants on and tell him thanks but no thanks

[Pattnee5]

More self reflection today. I remember a few months ago reading something about the best way to separate( and have a decent shot) is create good connection, attraction and good separation boundaries. Well safe to say I failed on all aspects there( maybe except the attraction because I have looked after myself and dolled myself up a few times to go out and felt good)
I def failed the boundaries. I now see the whole allowing H to come and go and be so involved in life as normal was def not the way to do. It certainly blurred the lines of what being separated is. Do I regret it? Probably not completely because I felt like at least I fought hard for H and my marriage.
What did I learn? That I am way too kind, my love for H ran so deep I hate giving up on people, and that I def gave my power away and let him control the path.
I kind of feel pretty rubbish again today realising this.

The connection part well I think I got that wrong too. You guys kept telling me to treat him like an acquaintance or neighbour, yet I kept trying to make him my H again.

Now I am finding I can’t even treat him like an acquaintance because I don’t know how to without coming across as mean.

Anyway just some self discovery today

Had a decent enough day, kept busy, walked, cooked dinner with the kids.
H did ask if he could come in and help S12 with something. I said fine and just busied myself with the ironing. He saw I was making burgers for dinner and asked if he should come over for dinner. I said “ I don’t mind either way” he looked at me weirdly and just walked out. I called after him and said bye and he said nothing( my plan was if he was going to have dinner I was going to go and sit in the bath anyway because the last few months when I thought I had hope he had been sitting with me chatting at the table at night).
Anyway about 3 minutes later he sent a message and said he won’t come and have dinner but can he take the kids and have dinner with them tomorrow. I guess I just put up w boundary he didn’t like? I did also tell him not to bother doing the house chores as it is a bit of a slap in the face for me now considering it was one of the reasons he used for not wanting to love me or stayed married.
He just said ok. Guess he has had a bit of a hissy fit. Half expecting him now to escalate the lawyer talk and get things moving quick smart.

I actually feel really indifferent now. I don’t feel hurt or sorry for him or worried if I have ruined any chance( let’s be honest they are long gone)
I’m more critical on myself now and my handling the last few months and whether my actions ruined any chances anyway

I am struggling now on how to have that “ connection” without being a completely mean angry person. It’s almost like I don’t even want to look at him or smile anymore. He has absolutely defeated me.

[Kind18]

Hi Pattnee. Please understand my post comes from a place of kindness, even if it’s a bit blunt.

I messed up this morning 😭 my brain was in overload this morning I was thinking “why would H want to return to this marriage what has changed for him” and I kept thinking about all the self growth and self realisation of my neglect during the year and how I put others ahead and just let him coast without checking in more. I felt so guilty and throufh tears I sent him a message 😔😔
I apologised for neglecting him as a lover as a husband and most importantly let our best friend status slip. I told him I have changed so much within myself and I don’t want us to separate and I want a new beginning a fresh start with him as I believe in us as the soulmates we always thought we were.
I know please scold me immensely for this.
He did respond thanking me for apologising and also apologised for his neglect. He then proceeded to say “you know how I feel and what I want and you need to accept that”.
I guess I deserved another crushing moment.

I took myself off for a walk felt horrible within myself and the fact that I am still clinging to this marriage which I strongly believe still has a heartbeat somewhere buried under the rubbish.
He came past later in the day to pick up S12 and take him out for an activity. I was busying myself at the time doing housework with music on changing the sheets and he came in to help. I told him it wasn’t necessary but he insisted and even threw a few “ friendly smiles”. I honestly felt dead inside. Only 7 months ago this man was lying in this bed hugging me telling me he loves me and now we are here. I didn’t really go out of my way to interact much more after that. He is still full steam ahead saying he is working out financials before we sit and discuss things then proceed to lawyers. I know this man, I lived with him for 20 years I know him better than anyone even better than himself. I am not convinced he is 100% sure on this and is rather just going through the motions because he has said it he now needs to go through with it. He has been on a see saw for months giving me false hope he is coming out of it with spending time together touching affection, only now to slam the lawyer move on our anniversary. Goodness me I hate my friend “expectation”

Anyway I am ok despite my absolute rubbish move this morning. Everyone ( and I mean everyone) around me keep telling me that the only way he will possibly get himself together or sorted is if I “kick him to the curb”. Everyone is telling me to tough love him but I am far too kind. It’s not even out of guilt or anything. I vowed for good and bad and this is the bad so why can’t I walk away.

How can it be so incredibly hard for me to tough love him. I can now see nothing I do or say is working in helping him return to his former self or home. I tried to be nice and allow the contact when he wanted, allowed the spending time together the hugs.I can absolutely see that didn’t even work for a second so why am I finding this so darn hard. I think it comes from if I give up on him he will have absolutely nobody and I was the one that was always determined in everything and was never going to give up on him. I needed to be that lighthouse but he doesn’t even want a lighthouse. And boy oh boy my mind is playing some horrible tricks now, making me question is the mlc even real or am I clutching at reasons.

I really am right back at square one now I feel. I’ve read “you will not die” over and over again today and everyone keeps saying I will be ok. But it sure doesn’t feel like it.

I have moments of feeling really good and strong and getting my power back then out of nowhere my roller coaster hurtles toward the ground. The one positive thing is I no longer miss him next to me at night anymore. I no longer want to tell him exciting stuff that’s happened in my day. So small win but right now I’ll take anything

I’m sorry for my vent. I know my family and friends are getting sick of it but don’t understand.

Point 1: You’re human Pattnee. We all are. We all make mistakes and most of us tried the Hail Mary email/letter/text.

Why don’t you stop beating yourself up so much about it? He’s using you as a punching bag just fine on his own, you don’t have to join in!

Point 2: Easy for me to say, I know…. You’ll probably say “but you don’t understand how great our marriage was” or “no-one can understand how unfair this is”… but I’m going to say it anyway.

You need to stop analysing every little action/reaction/word/conversation/event/message. Just put your walls down and stop trying to micro-manage and micro-analyse everything. If I told you it’s very unlikely that anything you do or say (or don’t do or say) will make ANY difference to the outcome here, would you drop the rope? You can’t think your way out of this.

Point 3: He’s doing chores like a mad-man because he feels guilty. It’s that simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

H did ask if he could come in and help S12 with something. I said fine and just busied myself with the ironing. He saw I was making burgers for dinner and asked if he should come over for dinner. I said “ I don’t mind either way” he looked at me weirdly and just walked out. I called after him and said bye and he said nothing( my plan was if he was going to have dinner I was going to go and sit in the bath anyway because the last few months when I thought I had hope he had been sitting with me chatting at the table at night).
Anyway about 3 minutes later he sent a message and said he won’t come and have dinner but can he take the kids and have dinner with them tomorrow. I guess I just put up w boundary he didn’t like? I did also tell him not to bother doing the house chores as it is a bit of a slap in the face for me now considering it was one of the reasons he used for not wanting to love me or stayed married.
He just said ok. Guess he has had a bit of a hissy fit. Half expecting him now to escalate the lawyer talk and get things moving quick smart.

Point 4: He asked something that’s completely reasonable (can he stay for dinner). You gave a completely reasonable answer (I don’t mind either way). He looked at your weirdly? Over-analysing. He walked out to leave - completely reasonable. You called out to him as he left - because you’re hyper focused on trying to do/say the right thing. He messaged and said he won’t come for dinner but wants to see kids - completely reasonable. You started trying to guess if that was him responding to a boundary. You told him to stop doing house chores and gave a lecture about it being one of his reasons to leave you? But why exactly? To exert some sort of control over what he can and can’t do if he’s leaving you? You guess he had a bit of a hissy fit? You’re reading WAY too much into it. I’m guessing he thought about the whole interaction about 1% as much as you did.

Now you’re expecting sudden escalation from a lawyer? My goodness, do you ever stop rubbing that crystal ball?

Point 5:
Have a think back over the above interaction from HIS point of view. If you were him, at the end of all that, do you think he would be MORE likely to be attracted to you or LESS likely? IMHO, all you’ve done is affirm to him that he needs to get away from this situation. You need to be mysterious, attractive, fun and upbeat… not controlling, worried, trying to appease or punish.

Imagine this… he comes in, sees you making burgers and asks if he can stay.

You say “Actually, these burgers are sh*t and I can’t be bothered making them.” Then you call out to S12 and say “let’s go out for burgers and milkshakes, see you at the car in 10 minutes.” You say nothing to STBXH, go upstairs, put some sexy clothes on with some perfume, come downstairs and say “oh, are you still here? You can keep folding sheets like my little laundry b****, or you can come out for burgers if you want, we’re leaving in 2 minutes.”

I’ll now ask the same question again. Do you think after flipping the script he would be MORE likely to be attracted to you or LESS likely?

Point 6:
MWD says doing 180s is key. What you’ve been doing (over-analysing, controlling, worrying, projecting) hasn’t worked has it? Maybe you need to try the complete opposite.