Just a quick few things. It's not your place to play the mediator between him and the kids at this point. I wouldn't talk badly about him in front of them, but to reach out to him for coffee to talk about the kids is only a temporary fix to the withdraw you're feeling.
It sounds like you are attempting to convince yourself if you are at least friends that you'll settle for that, which I believe isn't your goal.
My guess is he's asking about you to the kids as a bridge to his relationship with them. That's all it is.
Start down the path to detachment. Drop the rope
Me: 40 EX:37 Together 17 years Married 16 years 5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11
If I reflect on my reasons for wanting this, I will admit that its partly just to see him & hear him but there is another part that wants this all to be amicable.
The LBS doesn’t get to choose if it’s amicable or not. It’s completely out of your control. I wish I could tell you differently, but that’s the ugly truth. If he wants it to be amicable, it will be. If he wants to burn it to the ground, you catching up for coffee is going to make ZERO difference. Don’t do it.
The first part of your quote is really what’s going on. You’re fabricating reasons to try and see him because, totally understandably, you’re struggling emotionally.
You need to stop making decisions and concocting plans with your emotions, and rely only on DBing techniques and the advice of veterans on this site.
We know it’s hard, definitely the hardest thing I’ve ever done!
I absolutely believe you need to be getting professional help with managing your emotions on days when you are down. We can’t do that for you here. We can identify what we think is going on, and how you should DB it, but this really needs some counselling to assist with getting past these difficult days without falling into old patterns.
The other thing, is I sense you’re really struggling with loss of control. That’s what’s really bubbling under the surface here. You put on a brave face for a few days, do all the right DB things, but then when you realise he’s not falling back into your arms or changing - you try and come up with something to take control and move it towards where you want (like a coffee date).
When people say on this site “drop the rope”, it means “stop trying to analyse, control, manipulate or fix things.” Any attempts to do so will just cause you grief and potentially make reconciliation less likely.
You really need to explore some of these issues with a professional.
Hang in there MA. It will get better. You’re strapped into the roller coaster of divorce, and you’ve just left the boarding station. You can try whatever you like, but this thing has to zoom upside down and round and round for a while - and you can’t get off, you can’t change the trajectory, and you can’t reverse backwards into the station. You need to hold on, accept you can’t do a damn thing, and perhaps at the end of this violent ride (2-5 years) when the track is finished and you roll into the station, he’ll be there waiting.
Learn to be a train passenger, not the train conductor.
I think you're fair in your comments Joseph & my head agrees but my heart set off with another batch of crying. I'm trying to detach, which is easier sometimes than others. I think hormones are at play over the past few days too!
The rope thing seems much more difficult. If I'm understanding correctly, dropping of the rope means stop hoping / waiting / expecting him to choose me & come back? How do you do this whilst still being positive about the chance of reconciliation?
The rope thing seems much more difficult. If I'm understanding correctly, dropping of the rope means stop hoping / waiting / expecting him to choose me & come back? How do you do this whilst still being positive about the chance of reconciliation?
I’ve had anxiety my entire life. My anxiety comes from the unknown in bad situations or situations I consider are bad. because my self esteem was so low I alway thought doom. I been working on my self esteem with my IC and through a self help book and daily assignment from that book and meditation, exercise, eating better, eliminating alcohol. I have improved, not where I wanna be, but at least in a position where I have a healthy mindset that allows me to focus on now. Focus on improving myself now focus on making myself a better model for my kid now. I know now that if I don’t improve myself, I can’t be in a relationship whether it’s with my wife now or another woman. I now know that thinking about it cannot resolve it. I now know that I must let the unknown be. kinda like planting that unknown seed in my brain and not messing with the soil let it grow let it germinate and it will resolve itself and I will soon know about it. But I cannot mess with it. Meditation to me was a joke or are you kidding me no thank you but when it was brought to me by my IC and I was in such a bad mental state, I had nowhere else to go so I tried it and now it’s my tool I use to bring me back home, home being my body. Bring me back to now and what’s in my control. So coming from somebody with extreme anxiety of the unknown and only thinking doom and not being able to work sleep or eat at my worst times. If I can do it, you can definitely do it. I hope the best for you I hope your day is good. I’ve mentioned this before on my sitch about calling out gratitude checks to people, so I’m calling you out on a gratitude check basically what you need to do is list 10 things you’re grateful of and specifics. say it out loud say it in your head let me know how it makes you feel afterwards. I do it when I’m not feeling great and every time I do it, it makes me feel better
M:51 W:43 T:17 M:15 S:13 D11 10/2022 BD/IHS 03/2023 W moves out
The rope thing seems much more difficult. If I'm understanding correctly, dropping of the rope means stop hoping / waiting / expecting him to choose me & come back? How do you do this whilst still being positive about the chance of reconciliation?
I’ve had anxiety my entire life. My anxiety comes from the unknown in bad situations or situations I consider are bad. because my self esteem was so low I alway thought doom. I been working on my self esteem with my IC and through a self help book and daily assignment from that book and meditation, exercise, eating better, eliminating alcohol. I have improved, not where I wanna be, but at least in a position where I have a healthy mindset that allows me to focus on now. Focus on improving myself now focus on making myself a better model for my kid now. I know now that if I don’t improve myself, I can’t be in a relationship whether it’s with my wife now or another woman. I now know that thinking about it cannot resolve it. I now know that I must let the unknown be. kinda like planting that unknown seed in my brain and not messing with the soil let it grow let it germinate and it will resolve itself and I will soon know about it. But I cannot mess with it. Meditation to me was a joke or are you kidding me no thank you but when it was brought to me by my IC and I was in such a bad mental state, I had nowhere else to go so I tried it and now it’s my tool I use to bring me back home, home being my body. Bring me back to now and what’s in my control. So coming from somebody with extreme anxiety of the unknown and only thinking doom and not being able to work sleep or eat at my worst times. If I can do it, you can definitely do it. I hope the best for you I hope your day is good. I’ve mentioned this before on my sitch about calling out gratitude checks to people, so I’m calling you out on a gratitude check basically what you need to do is list 10 things you’re grateful of and specifics. say it out loud say it in your head let me know how it makes you feel afterwards. I do it when I’m not feeling great and every time I do it, it makes me feel better
I forgot to mention that gratitude is a learned behavior, unlike negative thinking, which is hardwired into our systems. I do forms of gratitude checks regularly to to learn it. If I don’t, I go back to the negative thoughts
M:51 W:43 T:17 M:15 S:13 D11 10/2022 BD/IHS 03/2023 W moves out
…if I want to remain on good friendly terms with H regardless of the outcome of our relationship, how do I go about setting the foundations for this at this stage of DB?
Basically don’t burn the bridge down. Refrain from demonizing H with yourself, friends, and especially the kids.
It’s not about building a foundation. It’s just not placing boulders on the path.
H has causes some damages in his relationships. Direct damages. Also there are collateral damages, consequences for his behaviours. Even sans demonizing, he can be held accountable.
Originally Posted by MA1970
I want to ask him to go for a coffee to tell him about what the kids are doing etc because he's only getting their angry side. If I reflect on my reasons for wanting this, I will admit that it’s partly just to see him & hear him but there is another part that wants this all to be amicable. How do people approach different stages?
Jospeh hit upon it well. Withdrawal.
The loss/withdrawal of romantic love stimulates mental pathways similar to heroin withdrawal. For a while after bomb drop our mind still has those feel good brain chemicals floating about. However, soon we hurt for and crave what was once so plentiful. Our mind screams for another hit.
We look at pictures, ruminate, try to set up coffee dates, all in an effort to ease our suffering. Thing is, every one of those is a short term fix. I well remember the pull, and temporary relief, of wandering down memory lane.
Cold turkey. The best way through this withdrawal is a straight line to the other side. It’s a difficult slog through the brambles and mire.
Regarding amicable. You can only keep your side of the street. Be kind and compassionate, yet not a doormat.
Originally Posted by MA1970
If I'm understanding correctly, dropping of the rope means stop hoping / waiting / expecting him to choose me & come back? How do you do this whilst still being positive about the chance of reconciliation?
Detachment is when one’s emotions are no longer uncontrollably dragged around and triggered by their spouses behaviours and/or words. It’s drop that particular rope, or be dragged.
Dropping the rope, detachment, doesn’t forgo hope. Waiting and expecting for our spouse to come back is being dragged about.
Dropping the rope gives you back control. You can and will still feel, just not as uncontrolled. And when not dragged about, one has agency of their choices. Deciding and enacting changes and life directions is very difficult when one is tied to a runaway train wreck. Let go. Drop the rope. Look away. Focus on you.
You have experienced better days and worse days. In time, and with effort, the better days out number the worse ones. Those worse/bad days becoming minimal, and then eventually gone. Like I said, it’s a bit of slog at first to get through this.
Stay strong and focus, and keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Firstly, thank you for everyone's responses. I read them on the day but have took a few days to digest before wanting to reply. Those days have been good & getting on with GAL activities (I scheduled weekend activities to include house stuff, time with the kids, exercise and inviting friends round for drinks and nibbles).
Kind18 - your post gave me a lot of food for thought. I also saw another post you had responded to about a trend of people coming on here and interpreting too much from spouse's behaviour / messages & not following DB principles. I get what your saying with this (it felt like what you'd posted related to some of my posts) but also feel that I'm still a learner. BD day was only 6 weeks ago for me. Since this time, I have asked him to move out because he wanted to continue to see AP whilst living in our family home and this upset both the kids and me. I have only had 4 interactions with him during this time (1 face to face when he came to see D at same time as I was going out & 3 texts relating to childcare arrangements). I have been neutral in all the messages apart from my first but learned from that. This forum & yours and others feedback has allowed me to do this & I'm very lucky that I found the forum before BD even happened (based on suspicions). I count myself lucky with that & have been able to conduct myself with decorum and dignity in a calm neutral manner for virtually all of my direct interactions with H despite my internal anguish & distress.
Originally Posted by Kind18
I absolutely believe you need to be getting professional help with managing your emotions on days when you are down. We can’t do that for you here. We can identify what we think is going on, and how you should DB it, but this really needs some counselling to assist with getting past these difficult days without falling into old patterns.
I agree re professional help and I am in IC but am looking to change counsellor as they aren't meeting my needs. That being said, it's also very early days. This is like a bereavement & as such, I think its understandable that my emotions will take hold of me at times. I'm starting to recognise when this happens and you are spot on with the control theory Kind. I had already brought this up myself in IC but was dismissed & blame attributed to H's drinking. I can see the pattern you point out & fully agree. I'm managing this myself by trying to remain no contact as much as I can but it's when the kids have interactions with H & they want to talk about it to me as a way if their own debrief. I think I'll get better at handling my own emotions with this but like I say, it's only 6 weeks for me. I like the train passenger analogy, it feels very familiar from mindfulness literature and I do try to do this. I think you are very wise & have a lot of experience with this Kind. I'm learning & trying to take it all on in a short timeframe. I guess I'll get it right sometimes & mess up at others.
DnJ - Thank you for your explanation of the terminology. It helps a lot. I also really like the withdrawal metaphor that you & Joseph talk about. I'm trying to go cold turkey but those emotions keep trying to drag me back in! One of your first posts to me talked about the gift of time. I couldn't understand it at all at first & just wanted immediate change. Funnily enough, it's now one of the things that really helps anchor me. No matter how long this takes, there's hope for the future. Either in a new relationship with H or in a new relationship with another & by that time, I'll be ready and prepared for what the future brings. Got a long way to go before I can regulate my emotions fully but as ever, the wise words on this forum help me to learn new things each time I post.
Thanks everyone!
Last edited by DnJ; 03/26/2304:34 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Firstly, thank you for everyone's responses. I read them on the day but have took a few days to digest before wanting to reply. Those days have been good & getting on with GAL activities (I scheduled weekend activities to include house stuff, time with the kids, exercise and inviting friends round for drinks and nibbles).
Kind18 - your post gave me a lot of food for thought. I also saw another post you had responded to about a trend of people coming on here and interpreting too much from spouse's behaviour / messages & not following DB principles. I get what your saying with this (it felt like what you'd posted related to some of my posts) but also feel that I'm still a learner. BD day was only 6 weeks ago for me. Since this time, I have asked him to move out because he wanted to continue to see AP whilst living in our family home and this upset both the kids and me. I have only had 4 interactions with him during this time (1 face to face when he came to see D at same time as I was going out & 3 texts relating to childcare arrangements). I have been neutral in all the messages apart from my first but learned from that. This forum & yours and others feedback has allowed me to do this & I'm very lucky that I found the forum before BD even happened (based on suspicions). I count myself lucky with that & have been able to conduct myself with decorum and dignity in a calm neutral manner for virtually all of my direct interactions with H despite my internal anguish & distress.
Originally Posted by Kind18
I absolutely believe you need to be getting professional help with managing your emotions on days when you are down. We can’t do that for you here. We can identify what we think is going on, and how you should DB it, but this really needs some counselling to assist with getting past these difficult days without falling into old patterns.
I agree re professional help and I am in IC but am looking to change counsellor as they aren't meeting my needs. That being said, it's also very early days. This is like a bereavement & as such, I think its understandable that my emotions will take hold of me at times. I'm starting to recognise when this happens and you are spot on with the control theory Kind. I had already brought this up myself in IC but was dismissed & blame attributed to H's drinking. I can see the pattern you point out & fully agree. I'm managing this myself by trying to remain no contact as much as I can but it's when the kids have interactions with H & they want to talk about it to me as a way if their own debrief. I think I'll get better at handling my own emotions with this but like I say, it's only 6 weeks for me. I like the train passenger analogy, it feels very familiar from mindfulness literature and I do try to do this. I think you are very wise & have a lot of experience with this Kind. I'm learning & trying to take it all on in a short timeframe. I guess I'll get it right sometimes & mess up at others.
DnJ - Thank you for your explanation of the terminology. It helps a lot. I also really like the withdrawal metaphor that you & Joseph talk about. I'm trying to go cold turkey but those emotions keep trying to drag me back in! One of your first posts to me talked about the gift of time. I couldn't understand it at all at first & just wanted immediate change. Funnily enough, it's now one of the things that really helps anchor me. No matter how long this takes, there's hope for the future. Either in a new relationship with H or in a new relationship with another & by that time, I'll be ready and prepared for what the future brings. Got a long way to go before I can regulate my emotions fully but as ever, the wise words on this forum help me to learn new things each time I post.
Thanks everyone!
Based on what I’m reading here, you’re going to be just fine.
You’re doing great for a newbie. You don’t get butt hurt when someone calls you out on something - you analyse it, don’t run away from it, take it on board. Your trajectory is in a very good direction.
Six weeks is hardly any time. The advice I was given was that I was going to be a wreck for the first 12 months, then I’d start to get my head around it. That timeline was very accurate for me.
I like that you understand the roller coaster analogy. Might as well have some fun along the divorce journey, because if you scream and try to change the trajectory - you’re only hurting yourself.
Reflecting, the 12 months it took for me to get back on my feet wasn’t my ex’s fault. It was actually mine. I’d stayed in a terribly imbalanced relationship for far too long, so it took me a year to understand I would be okay (and in fact magnitudes happier) without her. If I had better self confidence, better resilience, better management of my emotions and understood that I’m a good, strong, independent and capable person who doesn’t NEED a relationship to be happy and fulfilled, perhaps that 12 months I took would have only been three or six months.
Ironically, how much BD and divorce hurts us - we control that, not them. If you have control issues, that’s where to focus - internally - and not on their dumpster fire, MLC, affair fog train wreck.
I’m most definitely not as wise as most of the vets on here. Reading their comments on others’ posts helped me get to where I am today.
I miss LH19. Listen to job, cadet, bttrfly, DNJ, LH19, SteveLW. Go back and read about Jack three beans. Actually LISTEN to their advice. Live it, don’t just read it.
And even if you’ve read cadet’s welcome links, read them all again.
YouTube has some great stuff about transactional analysis. Go to your local library.
The answers to you regaining your strength and happiness are out there - you just have to find them!
Detaching and dropping the rope....simply to me, it means living your life for you. You don't worry about what the gas station attendant thinks of you, your outfit, what you are driving, or doing, so treat him like the gas station attendant.
You live your life for yourself. You dress nice so you feel better, you get into hobby's so you feel better, you start working out to boast your physical and mental well being. You don't do this for him to notice you, you do this so you notice you. So you become complete again with yourself. The side effect is it will get his attention. He'll wonder why you are so happy without him. Or he'll look at you and won't remember when you looked that good, etc etc etc.
Basically, go live your life and don't worry about what he's thinking of it.
Me: 40 EX:37 Together 17 years Married 16 years 5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11
And even if you’ve read cadet’s welcome links, read them all again.
The way some of these links are designed is that if you read what is linked - and then spend the extra time to read all the links imbedded links in the threads.
Originally Posted by Kind18
Go to your local library.
Great advice I learned a lot about the library system and how I can order books from anywhere in the US for free, Then you just need to wait for them and read them quickly.
