She's in a relapse, plain and simple. Saturday night AA meetings are date night meetings ... you know the routine - go to a meeting, hang out after for coffee, sometimes hookups happen.
If she's not yet using substances, there's a better than good chance that she's on her way.
I'm glad you're in Alanon and working the steps - I assume with a sponsor. Keep working your program for both AA and Alanon. Plan your day around a meeting, or something recovery-centered.
You know what is said in the halls: who are we to deny an addict their bottom? She has to hit a bottom plain and simple for any change to occur and only HP knows what that looks like.
You have children who need you. I understand completely your statement about the Catholic significance of marriage. It's a sacrament for a reason. You want your family and marriage intact, but better than it is now. I'm not saying you're looking for an out, divorce or annulment, but as a Catholic I found this particular bit of information enlightening. Perhaps you will as well: "Any Catholic granted an annulment can be remarried in the church—and any Catholic who does not receive one cannot. Diocesan tribunals, therefore, focus not on the health or longevity of a marriage itself, but on the circumstances surrounding the beginning of a marriage: Was it a “shotgun wedding” because of an unexpected pregnancy? Was the marriage coerced by physical or verbal violence? Did one partner hide an ongoing addiction from the spouse? Did both parties actually understand what was meant by the sacrament itself—the promise to remain sexually faithful, not to abandon one’s spouse, to be open to children without strings attached? Any and all can be evidence of “the absence or defect of consent,” in church parlance. "
That's a lot to take in. But I want you to really try to keep an open mind when you read that over again. Your old marriage is dead. You're going for one that's new, better, and stronger. One that can pass the acid test laid out above.
The question is how do you get there from here.
LET HER HIT HER BOTTOM. No one on earth knows what that is or what it looks like, but if she never hits it, she'll never get well.
Take the time to figure out what your core values are. You're on step 6 ... so you're well aware of what you've done and your patterns of behavior have emerged in Steps 4 & 5. Step 7 is about willingness and trust in the relationship you started in steps 2 & 3 with your HP. Figure out the 3-5 core values that are yours. What's most important to you? Values like loyalty, honesty, compassion, service ... what values do you embody or want to embody in your life moving forward? This is a crucial and fundamental step, imho, to moving forward with authenticity. Once you know what your core values are, it's much easier to know where to draw the boundary line and hold firm, because you know with certainty what does and doesn't jibe with your core values.
Once you know what they are, do not be afraid to stand up for your core values or your children's well-being. I well understand the fear of living with someone in crisis. You're afraid to do anything to upset the apple-cart but that in and of itself causes more problems. Don't cushion her fall.
Find out your options legally. Find out your financial obligations, rights and responsibilities in case you need to act at some point. Knowledge helps you sleep better at night and keeps you out of the land of what if.
Most of all, don't confuse being a jerk with standing up for yourself. You can set a strong limit and still do so with dignity and respect for both yourself and the years you spent together. She will always be the mother of your children. Behave in a way that your children will be proud of 10, 15, 20, 30 years from now.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Locking the credit card was a reaction, rather than a thought out response.
If you are concerned about spending and money management then deal with that before things pop up.
For example, when my W left and moved in with OM, her and I were joint on everything. She (and him) could have charged up a storm on “our” good credit of 30+ years. I called the card company and asked what options I had for limiting my financial liability. I had to cancel the card, pay it off in full, then get a new one issued in just my name.
Take planned actions rather than unplanned reactions.
Locking your credit card may have been for the best; I’m not sure what the future in which unfettered credit access held in store. However, do realize that she can do the same to you. You may find yourself locked out of things too. Fighting usually begets fighting.
Sorry buddy. I know this is a tough road. Lots of pothole and twists and turns.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I'm sure you felt you had no other option since she wouldn't respect your boundary. When you talk to her about this, you can tell her exactly that - I acted because I felt I had no other choice. We need to respect each other's boundaries. Regardless of what happens with our marriage, we're going to be in each other's lives because of our children and eventual grandchildren.
I'm not sure why you didn't want her to book flights. I do know that flights on Christmas day are significantly cheaper.
Not ideal, but ... it's an option.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I have not spoke to a lawyer yet, but will be on Monday. Sorry for the format as well. Not the easiest platform to use on the phone. The disrespect is immense for sure, and I’m curious on best response when the names start to ensure it shows will not be tolerated. Sometimes she will apologize, other times not. I’d be curious to know how that response looks as well if she decides to apologize. Im good either way, and do not expect her to. I appreciate the feedback.
Namecalling response. DB the heck out of it:
"W, you can think whatever you want, but I will not tolerate being spoken to this way." and leave. She can't argue with someone who isn't there, and isn't engaging.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Me again Just walked in from my GAL this morning. Al Anon meeting and Church. Why did you turn off the credit cards? I said we will still get your ticket but we need to plan what the trip looks like for all of us. I said when you want to plan this out we can sit down and talk. She continues and I said I’m not doing this right now with S6 in the room. She told me that shutting the cards down is illegal, both are just in my name, and that I’ll pay for it. She said my mom said she’d pay for it. I said we will pay for when we create the plan. This was funny to me since she ignores her mom constantly and pushes her mother away or blames her for the way she feels after talking to her. She likes to historically put her mother and I in the same bucket. Her mom is extremely codependent and has always been intertwined in our marriage, even though we moved across country. My guess is W will be reaching out to her more through this ordeal. Not sure if I need to communicate to her or not about the situation, since my oldest S22 is currently lining with them. I was making S6 a sandwich and she continued to attempt to talk and Then started calling me a weak little man. That her friend “Greg” from AA told her this is what you’d do, called me spiteful. Then she started bad mouthing me to S6. I took him in the other room and ignored the barrage coming from the other room. I told S6 that mommy was mad and that we both love him. He went back out there and she continued. Sorry for rant, will continue the path. Posting here helps me remember to journal the day as well. I still can’t believe this is the same woman. Thank you all again
One last item, she told S6 that I’m a terrible example as to how to treat a woman. Not sure how to overcome that. I just told him that I love his Mommy and that she is angry.
It's not the same woman. It's the same woman in active addiction/alcoholism with no program and no recovery.
Program says women stay with the women and guys stay with the guys, especially when they're new or just coming back.
Good job bringing your son into the other room.
How do you feel about the continued emotional abuse in front of your kids? While it's true you can't control someone else, especially an active addict/alcoholic, you have absolute control over your response.
I think the first thing you may want to think about is what lessons your kids are learning from this situation and watching / hearing her abuse you and what you can or want to do about that. Parental alienation is a real thing and not to be taken lightly.
regarding what she said to your son --- you're doing the right thing by telling him she's angry and that you love him. Keep him close. Whatever happens you're going to be dealing with her until your youngest is out of college, potentially. As tough as it is, keep taking the high road. Vent here. Are you working with a MC?
Last edited by bttrfly; 12/11/2206:19 PM.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
We do not have an MC, I set one up for the 19th of this month but was going to cancel. She didn’t want to go, and I told her we at least need mediation.
