Walkaway Wife Help

[LH19]

So passcodes on the phones being the norm do not sound good in a marriage. So I have been giving advice on this board for almost 7 years and I think I remember 1-2 WW where there is zero sign of OM. I know this is going to sound strange but if you want to reconcile you have a better chance there being an om. Affairs are like heroin and make people do crazy things they regret later. If she is walking away from you with a clear head than there is likely no turning back.

I’d skip MC for now. If she asks about it just say that you are respecting her statement that she’s done. Try to say it with as much sincerity as possible. She’s likely to see right through you but there is nothing you can do about it right now.

You married young but she’s kinda young for a WAW. This typically happens when people are in their 40s and start asking “is all there is to life”?

Sounds like you’ve been living as roommates for awhile. I assume that means sex life is not good. This typically leads to resentment from the husband. So my question is why is this life acceptable to you? Why don’t you want out? Just so you know I already know the answer to the question. Before you tell me the standard BS answers dig down deep and be honest with yourself.

[DnJ]

Good Morning br

MC doesn’t do much when one of the people has one foot out the door. It’s often a tactic used so the person leaving can say they tried everything.

Let W make arrangements for a session, if she wishes to go. Having to do the organizing and planning has her put in the effort and she could be less likely to just “be there”. It kind of flips the script a bit.

Another question: There is a little bit of an internal struggle with this on doing what is right for my daughters sake as well, with holidays, group neighbor family gatherings, family couple outings, etc. For example, Wife says she is "done" but we were supposed to go to her families house for Thanksgiving activities this weekend. It's a bit awkward in general now of course, but me attending makes both parents present for the young one. Or again, if I'm really "moving on" with my life, because at her request she is "done" with the relationship do I say something like, you know I ended up making other plans this weekend with some old friends (which isn't really a lie and could be the case).

I want you to consider something. You aren’t moving on, you are moving forward.

Moving on, is away from something. It has a more finality to it. Moving forward is not being stuck. You go forth, on your yet to be written future path.

That perception and direction paints how you approach things. And will shine through your small mannerisms and those other almost imperceptible actions. Moving on is different than living forward and definitely comes across that way.

It’s the same for the pending MC session. Moving forward vs moving on.

Anyhow, for the above thanksgivings plans. Focusing on you is a method to limit those pleading and needy behaviours that are not helpful. It crafts and reinforces detachment.

Focus on you, does not exclude daughter or family or friends, or even W. It’s not ignoring. It is you living you! And that includes going to thanksgiving. It’s how, and very likely why, you attend that will change.

W needs to feel what she is throwing away. Needs to experience losing you. Time and space is more emotional than physical. Yes, there is a physical distance component, yet the actual affect is less tangible and lives within her.

Doing or seeing family stuff is an excellent way to illustrate what she is giving up. For example:

You - Hey W, daughter and I are going out to get a Christmas tree. Want to come along?

W - No. Christmas is dumb. (moping around and brooding)

You - Oh, I’m sorry you feel that way. See you in a couple hours.

Then you and daughter go. And have a great time.

Do those family things. Offer to include W, and let her choose. If she comes along, great. If she doesn’t, great. Either way, you are doing great.


Focusing on you. You are part of your daughter’s life. She wants thanksgiving , Christmas, birthdays, friends over. There will be boyfriends, driving lessons, etc. Focusing on you, definitely includes her and being a great dad. Move forward, not on.

Folks do consider “for our daughter’s sake”. Thing is, it truly is for your sake too. Doing best by your daughter will serve you.

New and improved you would unlikely make other plans while his family is attending a thanksgiving function. The hanging out with friends is a fall back to the old you.

I was 23 when we had our daughter and I know I didn't always make the most mature decisions like prioritizing my family instead of hanging out with friends, going to the gym, or even working long hours.

Time to be better and make those changes permanent. That is what focusing on you and moving forward is really about.

Have a great day.

D

[MikeP]

Good morning br, I’m sorry you are going through this. I’m 8 months into my journey and it’s still in limbo. Please do your self a huge favor and really listen to the great advice you have and will have received. I just this week admitted to myself that I’m still trying to nice W back. It’s doesn’t work. I’ve struggled to GAL and 180, but I’m refocused now. The thing that would have helped me the most, is detaching. It’s hard and I’m still working at it. When I manage to detach, I usually can see a difference in how she acts as well. Something I’ve also struggled with is telling her how much I love her. Finally stopped that. You can’t love her enough to fix this. Stay strong for your daughter, my kids keep me going. Good luck my friend.

[br4nd0n]

LH19:

Thanks for the advice. I think I see how I'm going to handle the MC situation now.

You are certainly on to something here. About 5 years ago, there was a traumatic event (nothing marital wise or anything) that happened to me and wife was really really there for me. I don't want to talk about the event specifically but it happened at a terrible time as we had just built and moved into our dream home, new subdivision, new friends, etc. Along with this traumatic event, I also lost my job where I made a substantial amount of money, lost my benefits, etc. There was concern on whether we were going to be able to keep our lifestyle/house.

We had been together for 10 years, loved and cared for each other deeply, and decided to marry. There were also many good reasons to do so like benefits, etc. We both did want it.

Now since the WAW stuff has come out, she has said things like our marriage to her was just a continuation of our existing long relationship whereas for me I saw it as better or worse until the end. She wanted to be married and loved me very much but said a lot of factors went into the decision which is true to a degree. I also think she thought this way until she didn't and possibly saying it now as a justification for being a WAW.

After the job loss, I buckled down, found a new job almost immediately, and "kept the lights" on so to speak and have all this time.

So the healing process from this traumatic event did take some time and I had periods where I personally went into a dark place and isolated. Coupled with that, COVID also happened and that caused a ton of turmoil for us as it did for many people. I had already started working from home 100% even before COVID at this new job. Once COVID hit, Wife and Daughter were also home 100% of the time which was stressful. Daughter was trying to do remote learning while we're working, it was real mess. Not to mention all of the other concern, uncertainty, etc. that came with the virus that we didn't even know.

So between all that, there were definitely times healing/depression kept us in a state of more like roomates and not a great or active sex life. The ironic part is that this year before the blow up I felt like we (or at least I) had really started getting our sense of normalcy back with great trips, etc.. But perhaps there had been more damage in those previous years then I thought.

Even a few weeks after the "blow up", we already had this neighborhood weekend couple trip scheduled so we went. I thought the weekend trip went amazing. We actually had sex both nights in the hotel (the other guys I was with didn't even do that). Later when discussions about our relationship got worse after the trip (reflections from the blow up), I mentioned this trip and how I thought we connected really well and she said, ".....yeah, I mean we had sex..". But she still felt like even on that trip we weren't as affectionately connected as she thought we should have been with hand holding, kissing each other goodnight when guys would stay out later for drinks, etc.

I'm still very confident there is not OM. However, not divulging too much here because it's personal, but there is more time she is spending being affectionate "with herself" using new methods if you know what I'm saying. Much more so than before. That is certainly not an affair but probably not relationship healthy. I see that as a very lonely act and obviously we are not in a good state right now so I do to a degree get why it's not me in that place.


DnJ:

Seeing your thoughts on this definitely made me see that me attending the Thanksgiving activities at her families house as the right thing to do. As I dissected what you said, I came to realize that spending time with her family in the past has been a point of contention in our relationship. I have not always went on trips to see her family (2-3 hours away from us), etc. and I know that has hurt her in the past. I would stay at home or work that weekend, etc.

I don't think I'm necessarily unique in not wanting to always spend time with the mother-in-law, her sister and her kids, etc. But I think moving forward as the new me, focusing on me, and detaching like I've committed to, may start to make her really think.


MikeP:

I hear you, I spent the past two months doing exactly what I shouldn't have with too many texts/questions, pouring my heart out to reconsider, trying to show photos of amazing times/trips and birth of our daughter, surprising with gifts, writing heartfelt cards, etc. and NONE of it worked. I think it certainly conflicted her at times and made her feel like she was being selfish (which she has admitted multiple times) but since the decision was made in her mind, there was still no undoing it. By this point, she thinks she has a right to feel what she feels and to be selfish.

[BL42]

br4nd0n,

I'm still very confident there is not OM.

I hate to say this, but you need to mentally prepare yourself for the possibility - and probably likelihood - that your wife is having an affair, at least emotionally if not physically (and don't take comfort in an EA, which is just as bad if not worse than PAs for women). I know at least Kind18 said this above but almost every single situation on this board has some sort of affair factor...even when the poster swears up and down that one couldn't possibly be happening. I'm talking like 98%. I know that's tough to hear, but want you to have a realistic picture of what's going on.

Sorry you're in this situation. It's one of most difficult things people go through in their life. But it's good you came here for support - there are a lot of folks who know what you're going through and want to help.

I'm going to read your thread and respond in detail later, but wanted to chime in briefly now to show support.

[br4nd0n]

BL42:

So here's the deal. I'm new to this particular EA concept so bare with me.

Where does the line of an Emotional Affair and close Friendship differ? And where should that concern line be? And what should I do?

She has a VERY close work friend (female) that she talks to daily, are extremely close, laugh a ton together, and I know they talk about personal and relationship stuff. They just really get each other I think.

Do I think she turns to her for support and shares personal details about our relationship, yes I do. I don't know her well (met once) so she does not know me. It could be very possible that not nice things are said about me from her end, especially when possibly the only accounts of me are when my wife reaches out to her for support for something I've done or our rough time, etc.

This person is also married and lives quite far away so they don't spend time away from work (3 days a week) with each other or away from phone/texting.

[MikeP]

br, my wife was having an affair with a coworker from December until April without me knowing. I had know idea. In hindsight there were signs but I wasn’t looking. It started as an EA and I’m positive it turned physical despite her denial. I’m only telling you this so you can be prepared for the worst. It’s a hard thing to deal with. My wife still works with him and it [censored]. Be ready and try to mentally prepare. Not sure how to you do that, good luck.

[BL42]

br4nd0n,

I'm new to this particular EA concept so bare with me.

Where does the line of an Emotional Affair and close Friendship differ?

I'm no expert, but I'd say the line is where you feel comfortable being open about it vs. what you feel needs to be hidden. E.g., "H, I'm going to meet up with friend for lunch tomorrow." vs. meet up for lunch and not mention it or trying to actively hide it. Same with the phone or whatever.

So I think you can feel what an EA v. friend is. And it is addicting like a drug. Imagine life has gotten a bit stale and boring, you love your spouse but with work and the kids both sides have fallen off in the romance department and it feels at times like you're just romance. Where is excitement of dating and newlyweds? Then you strike up a friend of the opposite sex at work and it's innocent at first, but then there's a little flirting, and then you start texting each out, again innocent at first, but you're looking forward to seeing them at work and can't help but smile when a text pops up. And you justify to yourself "it's only a friend", and then before you know it there's a text that crosses the line and it gets you really excited and you know it's probably not appropriate but there's nothing physical. Soon you can't wait until they text you in the morning or the next night. You can feel the intoxication. And you think "well H doesn't care about me anymore. He should appreciate me like my 'friend' does. And start having resentment towards your spouse because they're to blame for you being bad. And you know it's not right but you don't want to give up the high of getting that text. And you love your spouse you're just not in love with them any more, and they don't understand you like friend does, and your life would be so much better with friend as a lover and spouse as a co-parent...etc., etc.

Read resources online. I'm sure it's described better than I just dig, but you get the gist.

And where should that concern line be?

Trust your gut. Anything that tingles your "spidey sense" is a concern. My now-ExW texting OM1 "Good night" and "Sweet Dreams" rang major alarm bells in my head. That was before any pictures or physical stuff happened. Others told me it could be nothing, but I knew. I literally observed it progressing over time, based on my snooping.

And what should I do?

You can not control her. You have to let go of any notion you have there that you can stop her from taking the path she is going to take.

Instead, listen to the experienced posters here and follow their advice...even if it's counterintuitive and seems scary. Focus 100% of your time and efforts on you and your daughter. Improve as a man. Be the best dad you can be. Detach from W and the notion that you being a married couple and nuclear family is the only way you can lead a happy life. Start getting yourself in better shape, more stylish clothing, practice attraction in interactions.

In essence, DB'ing.

She has a VERY close work friend (female) that she talks to daily, are extremely close, laugh a ton together, and I know they talk about personal and relationship stuff. They just really get each other I think.

Not sure about this same-sex relationship as an affair partner, unless you think your W might be into women. But definitely could be validating, encouraging, enabling W's bad behavior.

Do I think she turns to her for support and shares personal details about our relationship, yes I do. I don't know her well (met once) so she does not know me.

It could be very possible that not nice things are said about me from her end, especially when possibly the only accounts of me are when my wife reaches out to her for support for something I've done or our rough time, etc.

Very likely. And much of that could be lies. I know for a fact ExW told friends and family ridiculous lies about me. E.g., "he would've allow the kids to eat pancakes". I'm assuming to get them sympathetic to her "plight" and accept her having an affair and/or divorcing me.

[BL42]

br4nd0n,

Lots of great advice already from experienced posters. DnJ, Kind18, LH19, and Spiral are all seasoned board members. Listen to what they say and really take it to heart and implement their advice.

Two particular comments I want to highlight:

The point is to respect what she says. She says she is done with the relationship. Respect that. Listen to her. And no pressure.

W needs time and space to relax her feelings and let the other ones surface. She has lots to process and reconcile.

It's incredibly hard to do when you feel like your marriage is at risk and family is falling apart and your instinct is telling you to pursue and "fix" it, but you really truly do need to give space. You need to give her more space than she wanted or is comfortable with and starts to wonder if she really does want to lose you. No pressure, no pursuit, no begging, no pleading.

Have you read Sandi2's 37 Rules yet?

Consider making your highest priorities building your relationship with your daughter and improving yourself for you. And there's no need to chase your W. You'll probably find that she will stay on the periphery of your life, no matter how many times she says that she's completely done.

Shift your focus and efforts away from W and onto you and your daughter. Time to start improving yourself as a man and be the best father you can be.

"I will take care of me for you, if you will take care of you for me." -Jim Rohn

[br4nd0n]

MikeP:

I appreciate it. I know several on here are quite concerned that I'm being naive about the possibility of my wife having an affair and I'm really not. Even before I got on here on the forums when the blow up happened, I've been really investigating this possibility with my senses fully up to it.

I'm very well connected and skilled in this kind of thing and there just is no signs of an OM. Earlier when I was texting a ton after the blow up and not communicating well, I brought whether she was seeing/sleeping with someone else to see what she would say and said she absolutely had not and would not ever in all the years we've been together. She said she has always been careful with male co-workers to not even send the wrong signal ever or for anyone to get the wrong idea.

Not being naive and really investigating this, there just isn't anything there.

I'm not giving up on this as I think it's a continual validation but so far just hasn't yielded anything.


BL42:

I think your example of the EA makes perfect sense and I would totally agree if I found that my wife had a male "friend" in this capacity whether that male was single, married, or divorced on their part for that matter.

But as I mentioned above, it just doesn't exist.

The only thing is this extremely close work friend of my wife. She doesn't hide the fact she is always talking to her, many times on speaker in the kitchen, etc. and them just being dumb with each other.

But through text and instant message I know they talk about relationship stuff, stuff about me, stuff about our daughter, more personal stuff you would a close friend, etc.

And your right, this is a same-sex work friend. This women is also married so I don't see and haven't seen any signs of a romantic connection. In all my years of being with my wife, I don't believe there is interest in that way or if there is, has never been more than internal or maybe fantasy in her head maybe.

But again, when they talk about our relationship, specifically if my wife is talking to her about something that I did in her mind wrong, then we get two brains to say this guy is not good. This friend is also late 30's and doesn't have any kids of her own (only cats) so her giving any advice to my wife on our or my wrong parenting is not productive.


What I see from my wife is someone who has really been working on her weight/appearance, reading an absolute ton (more books in a month than most do in years/lifetime), and as I mentioned in a post above has been being affectionate "with herself" quite a lot which hasn't always been the case.

In my experience all of these years, she has always been a really good person with a good heart. Since this blow up happened, she has said so many times these past two months that she knows she is being selfish and that she feels like a jerk, and that she knows I'm trying so hard because I love her but it's still not changing her mind, and that she still fells shut off, confused, overwhelmed, and struggling. It's like she wants her mind to change but since she vocalized it that night, she can't help but to digest/feel it and not get over it no matter what.

But I'm also really not underestimating how much I screwed up pressuring her before I got to these forums. I look back at our communications and she just felt so much damn pressure and felt exhausted mentally. I was just doing everything Michele's last resort techniques say not to do.

But not that I know I'm changing my strategy and seeing where it goes. Maybe her "done" truly was all the things I was doing to pressure (not intentionally obviously).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lastly, another confusing thing was that unlike most years where we have people over for Thanksgiving it was just our family of 3 who went out to a nice restaurant for a change. It was quite nice and even after the "I'm done with the relationship" talk this week, she has a picture of the family taken at the restaurant and posts it to social media like we are still one big happy family.

I'm still committed to my new detachment strategy but it's stuff like this that is just so confusing.