Been perusing this forum for about a week after checking out DR from my local library and then ordering my own copy. I have greatly benefited from the advice and stories on here. If I may delve into my own situation...
Background: married almost 17 years; together for two prior to getting hitched. Wife and I have three sons (14, 8, 5) along with W's daughter (21) and son (18) from her previous marriage, whom I raised with her as my stepchildren.
We've had ups and downs in our marriage but never anything I imagined would have us looking at divorce. The first chink in the armor (for me, in my head) came in November, when W asked me to fix something with her computer. Not being especially tech savvy myself, I simply tried a restart. When the screen came to life, W immediately rushed across the kitchen in a panic and grabbed the computer away from me, hustling off to the bedroom. It all happened too fast for me to realize what was going on or make out what was on the screen. Clearly something was awry. I finally got out of her that it was a Facebook Messenger screen where she had simply been talking to a male friend. In hindsight, this was clearly an EA, the duration of which I honestly don't know.
We fought about that for a few days; if I recall, she later came up to me the night after it happened and tearfully said she hadn't meant to hurt me. By and large, I let it go, as nothing seemed off at the time. At some point thereafter (unfortunately the precise timeline eludes me) she became sneaky and like a bulldog with her phone. I also noticed way later that she had stopped tagging me in Facebook family photos (something she had done religiously) the first week in December.
I noticed some distance forming between us in February and she barely acknowledged my birthday. During this time, she was taking a few online classes to attain another degree, and she would be holed up in the basement area of our home for hours at a time after the kids were put to bed. I began going to bed before her, something that was previously rare. We also stopped watching tv shows together at night. In other words, she had ample opportunity to get fully neck deep in this EA.
Sometime in March I started getting onto her about suspicious dips into the bathroom that took way longer than they should, accusing her of texting "the guy." One thing about W is that she is not a good liar. I mean, obviously she's able to be duplicitous enough to have this EA going under me, but her body language and facial expression will reveal subterfuge. I knew then that whatever was going on appeared to still be a thing. Unlike SteveLW, whose threads have been invaluable to me (especially with all the posters who chimed in), I don't know specifics - is it one guy all this time? One EA that petered out and another that sprang up? Nudes? Sexting? In my mind, it's been one man consistently and I should probably assume the worst about the content.
Late March or April, W started seeing a counselor under the guise of working on lifelong confidence issues. Has this been a thing with her? Sure. But it also became clear that she was looking for affirmation that I had been a poor husband, to get some air under her wings to perhaps leave the marriage. I had been asking her to let me attend a session to "work on the marriage" as this counselor presumably did both IC and MC. Finally, on Good Friday in April, W admitted to me after a session that she "wasn't the same person" and still loved and cared about me but didn't quite feel the same.
I predictably tried to pull out all the stops (basically doing everything wrong from a DB standpoint). I hounded her about the EA, unfortunately not getting anything. A few female co-workers openly advocated for me to grab W's phone out of her hands when she had it unlocked, but I viewed that as a bridge too far. W would constantly tell me to cool my jets about D talk and that she was "conflicted." I started my own IC in April and that has definitely helped, though I'd say DR and what I've read on this forum have helped more.
Here are a few current nuggets before I post this:
* W has been very attuned to her appearance for a few months, running daily, fussing about gray hair on top of her head and coloring it frequently, getting her nails done (something she never cared about before) and finally - having breast augmentation scheduled for December. She's spun this as a positive for me, but I'm of course leery of a D taking place at some point after this. I think the youthful appearance wannabe thing goes with a MLC, but is this always automatically linked to being on the prowl for other men and/or monkeybranching?
* D talk is not on the front burner but W has been searching for a better-paying job (I know back from snooping that she's told friends she wants to be more financially secure before she tries anything)
* We're starting MC next week, but we both know it might not necessarily be as for a band-aid. My well-meaning therapist suggested I push for it as a way of gaining "clarity" before I was aware of DR and these boards. W finally acquiesced to attending. To be honest, one of my main questions is how to play this session when it rolls around next week
* W has definitely expressed cold feet to friends and to me about forging ahead with D, but you know, "Trust nothing they say and 50 percent of what they do." I know she was recently enamored by the plan of two divorcing college friends of hers - they will rent an apartment and rotate who's at the house with the children.
Any feedback is immensely appreciated! Will post more details as they come to me.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thanks for your response. W and I are both 43. Sex life is good. Never really had a dropoff there, though I was a little dispirited to read Sandi's comments in SteveLW's thread from 2018 about a woman using her H as fantasy vessel for living out sexual fantasies of her EA partner. Who knows if that happened with me. Probably so. Definitely had some rare occasions of morning sex during this time frame.
One question I have with DBing and detaching is that I was probably somewhat emotionally absent for my wife at times. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily agree but perception is reality. So, I just wonder if it would be counterproductive to be aloof but friendly. She asked me today why I was being "standoffish." As for my question - I used to make little creative cards filled with lines about funny things in our lives and leave them for my W. It was a hallmark of our courtship and continued for years, though it tailed off. I am past the "oh shoot" segment of lovebombing where a H sees he could lose W; things have calmed down, especially since I read DR. Yet, I've made her a handful of cards the past few months. She loves it (cake-eating, I'm sure, yet...). The other day she mentioned something like "if we stay married, it'll be because of those cards you make me" (probably temperature checking). I was just wondering if this might be something that helps recreate an emotional bond. Yes, it could be called pursuit. I dunno. I think the MLC is more a threat than the EA. You know, wife wants to change things up, identifies H as a target, figures life would be perfect with him out of the picture, therefore - D!
So Doug do you believe that the state of your marriage depends on you making cards?
I lived your life 8 years ago. It’s a horrible feeling when you feel your family slipping away and there is nothing you can do about it.
Strength is the only way to go moving forward.
Well, when you put it that way...
What would be a show of strength in your mind? DBing and GALing like a boss? I've had enough time to think about all this to the point where I wouldn't view divorce as soul-crushing. Do I really want to be with someone who may well not want to be with me? In a marriage largely devoid of trust right now, I'd say. Yet, there's much at stake, of course.
If I could give young LH19 advice when he found out his w was texting another man, I would tell him to tell her calmly “I know what you’re up to, you can’t have both. It’s either him or me”. Than act accordingly to her answer.
Hey Doug. Welcome to the forum and sorry you are going through this. It is kind of strange that you mentioned my threads because as I was reading your post the thought that it was similar to my situation struck me. And it is even more similar to my first situation with my W from 2005.
The first thing I can tell you is you need to drop your fear of D. When you try to DB out of fear it will cause you to do the wrong things. I tried DBing for 2 months out of fear of D. Once I started to drop the fear (about the time I found this forum) my DBing got a lot better. Dropping fear doesn't happen overnight, it is a process. Just like emotional detachment.
Next, remember, actions not words. You need to act not talk, but you also need to assess her plans based her actions, not words. D talk is on the back-burner, but all of her actions sound like she is heading that direction. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about that, which is why removing the focus from her, focusing on yourself, and starting to employ good DB principles it the best path forward for you.
I certainly do not recommend grabbing her phone from her hand. Assume the worst, hope for the best. Someone that is a bulldog with their phone is hiding something. Only the guilty have something to hide. So again, take her at her actions: if she is hiding her phone from you, if she is in the bathroom for long periods of time, etc, you can be assured that an EA is going on. Whether it is the same guy, or whether that fizzled and this is someone new is really not important. We LBSs like to fixate on the AP, but this is less about THE AP, and more about AN AP. In other words, if the AP ended things with her tomorrow, she'd just go out looking for a new one. It is part and parcel of wayward wives.
Speaking of that, you say this is her second marriage, but you do not say how her first marriage ended. Can you share why her first marriage ended?
Also, remember these words from one of the most wise posters this forum has ever seen (AnotherStander), you cannot nice her back to the marriage. Remember that. You want to command her respect, not try to nice her back. This is why GAL is so important. You need to stay busy and make her a much smaller part of her life. After all, that is what she has really asked for. She won't feel like she is losing you until she feels like she is losing you. Yeah, I said that right.
I'd cancel MC. "I've decided MC would be a waste of time at this point. Instead, I am just going to continue with IC to work on myself." MC in these situations rarely, if ever, work.
Remember, focus on what you can control, let go of what you cannot.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
If I could give young LH19 advice when he found out his w was texting another man, I would tell him to tell her calmly “I know what you’re up to, you can’t have both. It’s either him or me”. Than act accordingly to her answer.
Easy for me to say now as I’m on the other side.
I get it...I do. I've wondered how that would look given both W and I are on the mortgage. Neither of us could technically kick the other out. I happen to have more family in the area, but do I want to move out? Is the rule of thumb generally that the person seeking the divorce should exit the home to start the separation process?
Steve's an active poster whose wife had an EA, he followed the DB approach, and he got to reconciliation--a good model if that's your ultimate goal for your situation. Sandi's Rules are also here to help you. Read through them twice. Ask questions.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Is the rule of thumb generally that the person seeking the divorce should exit the home to start the separation process?
Well, even if you choose to give up instead, it's essential to stay in the family home until a lawyer advises you that leaving won't affect 50/50 custody or your finances. The court tends to look at the "status quo" (last few months' possession). Tread carefully.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I'd cancel MC. "I've decided MC would be a waste of time at this point. Instead, I am just going to continue with IC to work on myself." MC in these situations rarely, if ever, work.
MC tends to be a waste of money unless both try, and you say she "finally acquiesced.
