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Sage4 Offline OP
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Hi Kindly, thank you for your kind words of solidarity. I have an experience to share that may be helpful to you in yours.

After this last bout of particularly bad spewing, I spoke to my IC about how to deal with it and she had some really wise words. H broke up with me. And when he did, he relinquished his membership to the 'club' of trusted advisors (family, friends', bosses etc) that are allowed to share their opinion of my personality or behaviour; past or present. It's so simple, but it really struck me. And let's just take this further: your boss fires you, but then continues to call and harass you about what an awful employee you were, how terribly you acted at work, what a worthless waste of time you were. I think we could be in agreement we would probably call the police, right? I mean, what gives that boss the right to do that?

And yet, the LBS is encouraged to listen carefully to the MLCer's words; validate, find truth in it and change as appropriate. Which combined with our hope for the M, may leave us vulnerable to not being strong enough to turn the tap off when it should be.

Another helpful tidbit that I learned in that session (and have heard repeatedly since in a short period of time, so the universe is really speaking here): mentally ill people need REALLY clear boundaries. IC helped me choreograph some boundaries surrounding the spewing which I (unsurprisingly) had an opportunity to execute the following day. And it worked. I was very focussed on the true definition of a boundary and was very careful to make sure that the boundary was MINE and not about controlling him. And although there have been moments since when I knew H wanted to spew at me, he seemed to hold it in. And I finally feel safe. Which allows me to be more compassionate, because I am no longer scared of him.

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When I was going through my divorce 11 years ago, I still had a flip phone. If Ex started spewing at me on the phone, I just snapped that thing shut. If he called back, I’d say “oh, sorry, I must have driven through a cellphone hole”. It was SO satisfying to clap that phone shut on him mid-sentence! Eventually I trained him to only communicate with me by email.

But I still remember that moment when I realized “Wait! He’s divorcing next, so I don’t have to listen to this anymore!”

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Good Morning Sage

An interesting analogy - the boss.

MLCers do tend to, at times, feel that they are finally taking control, and have everything all figured out. They exude such smug confidence and arrogant assuredness; like that terrible boss. And yes, we are fired.

Unlike mere employment, this was a marriage. And this is about busting divorce. Still, big bad boss spouse, doesn’t get to treat their LBS like trash. People treat us as we allow them too.

Originally Posted by Sage4
And yet, the LBS is encouraged to listen carefully to the MLCer's words; validate, find truth in it and change as appropriate. Which combined with our hope for the M, may leave us vulnerable to not being strong enough to turn the tap off when it should be.

We are encouraged to focus upon ourselves. Go dim or dark, to allow time to heal. Listen to the MLCer, for they do tend to drop clues. And some of their irrational outbursts do have a grain of truth to them.

We do validate the MLCer, for their point of view is valid. Understanding that their truth and our’s are not the same.

The LBS reflects and searches within. Discovering their beliefs and convictions. Strengthen those they like and discards or alters those they don’t. And live and stand to those beliefs.

Through this inner work and difficult path, the LBS finds an inner strength and faith that is quite surprising. And one can be strong and vulnerable. Indifferent and compassionate.

We learn this is a marathon, not a sprint. We have such a gift of time, it is good to use it wisely.

Originally Posted by Sage4
I was very focussed on the true definition of a boundary and was very careful to make sure that the boundary was MINE and not about controlling him.

Excellent!

Boundaries are not about control, they are for you.

The terrible boss who continues to berate, we could yell back, fight back, for we have been fired and have nothing really to loose. However, fighting begets fighting; and this was not mere employment. And we do have something to loose - ourselves.

Nothing you do will affect your H’s MLC, and yet everything you do will.

Clear solid boundaries upon disrespectful behaviour. For you. Set with compassion and understanding. Unlike that boss, H is your children’s father, and will be involved in their and your lives for a long time.

I completely agree, and believe, MLC is a mental/emotional illness. Hopefully it is temporary and they can find their way back.

It is wonderful to read how you are not so scared of H, and tend towards compassion.

D


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Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Thanks KML and DnJ for your words.

The boundary I created seems to be working: H has not spewed at me once since I stated that I would no longer listen to it. In fact, he has been trying to be kind and gentle in his communication with me lately, which I am grateful for, although I can't trust him yet.

Setting that successful boundary has empowered me to acknowledge where I might need other boundaries in my life, either with him or my children. When one of my more vocal children started to throw a fit and spew at me, I calmly stopped them and said in a very even tone 'from here on out, NO ONE is allowed to treat me disrespectfully and say rude things to me. Not your father, not you or your siblings, no one. In this family, moving forward we are going to treat each other with respect. It's OK to get angry and have big feelings, but we are not going to blame others for those feelings and I am going to help you with that.' The child stopped short and really listened with a look of respect in their eyes.

I have since had that conversation with another one of my children. They have responded really well and I am realizing how long my children have watched me emotionally bend and enable in my MR and how that has impacted them. I thought my enabling and emotional gymnastics was my duty to my family; I had so much psycho-emotional energy to give, I thought I was being the 'bigger' person. But now I am slowly recognizing how destructive that behavior was. The children saw me as strong, but yet I would yield to behavior from H (and to a lessor degree from them) that I was instructing them not to accept from, nor give to, others outside of our family.

Previously, I thought that carrying everyone else's emotional burden (and outbursts) was me being compassionate and understanding. But this period of my life is teaching me that having boundaries IS compassionate. I am fortunate to have 4 little mirrors in my life that are helping to teach me this. And in many ways, I am fortunate that H has done what he has done when they are still little and malleable. I have so much time until they are truly 'cooked'; so much time to learn, shift my own behavior and model for them a life of strength AND compassion.

And although I am able to reflect on lessons such as this, I am still struggling with my grief and sadness. I don't want H back in the shape he is in at the moment, but I am still dealing with the rejection, the hurt, and the pain of it all. While covid homeschooling a pack of kids and trying to rebuild my life.

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HI

You sound very strong and I agree with you

Your kids will adjust and learn the new rules and norm quickly
Now its about staying the course especially when H acts out

I used to tell my kids if they did one put down with me or each other
They had to now do 3 put ups to create respect and looking for the best in each other
and allowing bif feeling without shame or blame--

really good stuff!


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Sage, I relate to a lot of this. I've felt responsible for H's angry outbursts or moods for a long time, I've realized this past year. Of course, he felt I was responsible too, which reinforced my thinking. I wish I would have been in IC to learn more about boundaries sooner—it probably wouldn't have helped change the outcome of the M (I can see how H was pretty much always on this path of non-communication, shoving feelings down, and blaming others for his unhappiness), but it would have helped me! Paradoxically, I think H was also really bad with boundaries and always taking care of other people's feelings at the expense of recognizing or expressing his own--his solution now is to not care about anyone else. Anyway, I'm still working on this. Understanding boundaries is one thing, and learning how to live them is another.

Originally Posted by Sage4
Another helpful tidbit that I learned in that session (and have heard repeatedly since in a short period of time, so the universe is really speaking here): mentally ill people need REALLY clear boundaries. IC helped me choreograph some boundaries surrounding the spewing which I (unsurprisingly) had an opportunity to execute the following day. And it worked.


Was this you pretty much saying, "H, I will not listen to you attack me" during the last spewing?

Originally Posted by Sage4
And although I am able to reflect on lessons such as this, I am still struggling with my grief and sadness. I don't want H back in the shape he is in at the moment, but I am still dealing with the rejection, the hurt, and the pain of it all. While covid homeschooling a pack of kids and trying to rebuild my life.


((Sage)) Yes, the grief and sadness, the rejection and hurt... all of that coexists with rebuilding. As my focus has started to shift away from H and to my own plans for the future, I am sometimes taken aback by the moments the grief and hurt and all of that comes flooding in again. You're doing great, and you're modeling your growth and compassion and strength for your children as well.


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I need some MLC advice.

The other day, H and I had to have a talk about one of our children having a really tough time with the transition and how we could coparent through our child's emotions. I felt calm and non-judgmental in our conversation, and although there were a lot of triggers in that conversation for both of us, neither of us took the bait, nor did we twist the knife. For the first time, I thought that maybe, just maybe, we might be able to amicably coparent. H had a moment in the conversation where he started crying about the situation, and I saw a glimmer of him recognizing how hard this is on all of us. Previously, all of his words and reactions felt very self-centered, as if his feelings were bigger and more important that any of ours. So this was new.

When H came over later to collect the children for the night, we continued the conversation. I had mentioned in our phone convo that I was hoping to shorten the kid exchange transition times (they have been taking 45 mins from his pick up arrival to their departure). He asked me if that was because I couldn't stand being around him? I said no, it was because I had plans and also needed that extra time to get some things done. So he kept saying, 'I am going to get out of your hair, sorry that I am still here, etc'. But I shrugged it off and said that talking about our child was more important than whatever plans I had.

In the middle of a mundane conversation about the location of something irrelevant, H stopped, looked at me and apologized for all the horrible things he has said about and to me. And told me that not one of them were true. That I was amazing, loving, kind and a really wonderful mother, woman and human. He then hugged me, and I said thank you. And then we transitioned into something else.

I held it together for the rest of our visit, which was pleasant and had some easy banter. Then I got in my car to run some errands and sobbed and sobbed. I know that someone shouldn't have so much power over me, but this is the first time in about 10 months that I haven't questioned my sanity. I have spent so long hearing about the 'terrible, manipulative, controlling, psychologically abusive, awful' person that I was, that I had come to believe that maybe all those things were true.

And with the apology, came this flood of relief. That maybe I am not to blame for all of this and I am not a horrible person after all.

Of course, the following day, it was back to shark-eyed H. Although he has maintained the pleasantness. For the time being, anyway.

Is this normal MLC behavior? My gut tells me he needed to say it to relieve his own guilt, more than assuage my esteem.

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Good Morning Sage

Yes, there are glimpses of the person they once were. At times, seemly fully aware of where they are, and what they’ve done. And the darkness then drags them down, and it’s back to the shark-eyed crisis person.

You have seen this incredible shift of personality. H is still inside, a lost soul. His younger tormented self, is in control - running, blaming, projecting - in a futile attempt to feel better. That person needs to grow up and learn happiness comes from within.

These shifts, these moments of somewhat clarity for them, usually happen when they are calm and unable to distract themselves with their vices and running behaviours; like laying in bed in the still dark of night unable to sleep as the demons of regret and guilt play. One can see just how depressing that would be. Depression is a huge component of MLC, it’s is always present.

His path is still about him, as is his apology. It is more an attempt to relieve his guilt than assuage your feelings. Of course apologies do both, and he most likely realized and even meant, both.

That flood of relief. It felt good. Remember it. Reinforce it.

You have seen that shift. You know. You’ve seen. You’ve felt. Now what do you believe?

Beliefs are deep and slow changing. Strengthen this belief.

You did great during all of this interaction. Non-judgemental, calm, and no twisting the knife. That is so very much for you. Hold your head high, you are living within the light and grace. This also allows H to realize you are not the source of his pain and problems; something he saw and briefly displayed.

How can one not have compassion for such a lost soul? You know, and believe, the depth of his torment. Imagine what it must take to feel that destroying one’s life and family is the only way out. Desperation drive people to desperate actions.

I know the narrative that play(ed) within your head, making you question your own sanity. I think you will “hear” his words and not “listen” to them quite as much. You have a better and truer narrative hopefully playing.

It is really wonderful when the fog clears some more and we see better. You are compassionate and displayed good control of indifference (holding it together until alone in the car).

You are doing very well Sage.

D


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Wow, Sage. You handled that all so, so perfectly.

I hope you can continue to discard his narrative. You ARE an incredible human being and mother. Empathetic, optimistic, brilliant, supportive, kind... just for starters. It actually fills me with a deep anger to think that at some level you started to question those truths and believe his narrative about the control/manipulation/emotional abuse. I know it is crazy-making to see someone you love totally go haywire and rewrite your shared story. But please, please don't let it get to you.

(((SAGE)))


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I am back in a really sad place right now and could use some guidance.

We had a child's birthday recently and celebrated the day with H and some of my family members. It was a wonderful birthday for our child, but it was so, so so hard on me and took days to me to recover emotionally. My family also left the event so sad, H was a man they loved and trusted as a best friend and he is so different, they couldn't recognize him. It was hard. He also said some sexually inappropriate things about other women, which hurt me so much. Not to mention that he said these things in front of my family like it was some bar talk between guys. Gross.

I know that H really loves the children. He is trying really hard for their sake. Which I am grateful for, but also makes me angry in some sense, because I would have given my right arm for him to be a more plugged-in parent during the past 10 years. If he had, I don't believe we would be in the situation we are in right now.

My anger is spilling over right now (PLC, is it the moon?). I don't feel compassionate or loving. I am angry and have no patience for him. I want to be as far away from him as possible. I don't want to see his face, I don't want to be reminded of my pain and confusion, I don't want to have to suppress my feelings or walk on eggshells just because he is in my space. I don't want to uncover his secrets and lies (vis-a-vis the children, whom he seems to think are still innocent toddlers unable to read a room)

I want to heal. But gosh, it is so hard right now.

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