Trying to Detach

[may22]

Thanks, Alison. I have another session with IC this afternoon specifically to try to tease out this core value thing (plus me figuring out how to not let my emotional life bleed into my professional life). I do suspect it is less around being a family of four and more about being the best parent I can be.

I don't judge people who are divorced, I really don't. I also spent some time with the IC yesterday on why I'm so against it. I do think it is sad when there are children involved but I think the only time IRL where I've gotten judge-y is when I feel like one or both of the parents didn't really try, or just walked away. Our neighbors have two children, S3 and D8. The 8 year old is terrific friends with mine and they used to just run back and forth between the two houses. One day a couple of years ago, the W came home from a business trip and said she wanted a D, she wasn't happy. The H said, OK. And that was that. She MO, hooked up with a work colleague (they had clearly been having an A but the H wasn't aware and she's never admitted to it... but within days of her announcement, when she made her H sleep in the basement before she actually MO, she was going out at night and coming home at 2 or 3 in the morning every night).

This happened a couple of years ago, their D was finalized about 18 months ago, and she's now living with her OM and 6 months pregnant. He's in a serious relationship too. The kids are shuffled back and forth. The kids don't seem to care but neither do they seem happy or well-adjusted. The daughter said to me a couple of months ago that maybe her parents would get back together. My girls are heartbroken that their time with their good friend is cut in half-- there have been a lot of tears at my house about it. Both parents seem relatively disengaged. The dad only has them half the time and I think they just watch a lot of TV. He works in his shop on woodworking stuff while they're with him. The mom seems like she can't wait to drop them off-- I don't think she's ever really loved being a mom (from conversations before she MO). I just feel so bad for the kids.

However, from the surface-- if I didn't live right next door and hear what is happening all day long, know when one parent comes and goes (with Covid, we all get excited any time a car goes up the drive, LOL)-- they would look like they have a perfect D. They're friendly, when school was still in session the mom would bring the kids home to the dad's house and make them dinner every day before he came home, he co-signed her loan for her new house. They *look* like a textbook conscious uncoupling. And yet, I'm close enough to know that it is not. And I feel some anger on behalf of the kids that both parents just walked away from their M and their family without a backwards glance. They weren't a high conflict couple but they've both brought their R issues into their new relationships... I'm much closer to the dad and we talk a lot about his new R, and I'm not optimistic for him. This is by far the closest I've ever been to witnessing a D unfold (H as well) and it looks simply awful.

And this is the closest my children are to D. My older daughter has a couple of good friends whose parents are D-- one is a super high conflict, ugly ugly situation; one looks very perfect co-parenting on the surface but the dad is a real jerk and I think it is just optics of what the mom wants to present. I really don't have good examples of Ded couples whose kids are well-adjusted and doing great.

I hear what you're saying, Alison. And of course I would never ever judge you if you D or remarry or whatever... I know you are doing what is best for you and your children. I believe that when the time comes that I am no longer able to be a good parent to my girls, that the trauma and stress of what is happening bleeds into my parenting, that will be my cue to walk. I think I could do it then. 100%. And I also think I could have done it in the first year of his A, if I had found out, because we were high conflict at home and I (not knowing about the A, but only considering how he was behaving towards me) felt strongly that this behavior could not continue as it was not OK for the children to witness. It was why *I* wanted to go into MC, because I felt like we were setting a bad example for the kids.

Maybe I'm good at compartmentalizing too... but the honest truth is, right now, I don't feel like we're a fake family. We are a family. The kids have a great mom and a great dad who love them very, very much. We don't argue in front of them and we spend QT together. We are kind to each other. And. My H is acting like a selfish jack@ss and putting this all at risk and I'm furious with him about it. But even if he is not being authentic and truthful, I believe that I am and I'm living my core values and being the best mom and May I can be.

Maybe my H will find some slippery way to get out of this deadline with the trip, but I do feel movement, that something is happening, that either he'll do what i'm asking or he won't and then we'll need to tell the children we aren't going on this trip, and he's saying he'll never forgive me for taking that away and we can't be married if we don't take this trip... okay. sounds like a decision to me.

And when your H says 'we can make this marriage whatever we want' what he means is 'what I want'. He really doesn't care at all about what you want and he hasn't done in years - if he was so interested in having an evolved marriage, he would have involved you in his decision to have another sexual and intimate partner. He kept that secret from you and took away your consent to the relationship you were in. He's still doing it now, only he's doing it to your face.

Yep. He's a selfish duck. (CARDINAL this really still makes me smile. thank you.)

[AlisonUK]

You are doing so well May. You really are. I wish I'd had taken things as slowly and carefully as you are doing right now. There will be grief, no matter what path forward you choose and no matter if your H chooses to take it with you or not. And I think grieving is another way of facing reality, and it's only when we do that, that we can make good choices. And you are on your way, even if the destination doesn't look that great or isn't clear at all yet.

[may22]

As their relationship progressed I accepted more and more that he and I simply weren't meant for each other. We weren't meant to be together forever. He was put in my life to give me my beautiful baby, who is no longer a baby. And that was his purpose. She is all the wonderful things about him. And she does carry a few of the not so wonderful things about him....And no matter what happened in this house D17 was helped by her parents splitting up.

Honestly, WF, I think you're just a better person than me. I can't see myself ever getting there.

All kids fair better in 2 households than then do in 1 toxic one. If your H won't put in the work your home will become so toxic it won't just be confined to the two of you any more. Toxicity like that seeps out, oozing all over everything. You can't control it either. It will effect your kids. And you have no idea in what way until it's too late.

Agreed. But our house is not toxic right now. I know it to my bones. I see it could get toxic because I think it has been in the past, and the girls are older now too and will pick up on a lot more of that than they did before. But today, I stand by the environment I'm giving them, today, as a mom is a good one.

You know how I feel about standing. If you can't, won't, or other wise are unable to be the one to pull the plug so be it. You stay. You figure this out. You do what you need to do. I am 100% on board with once you're done you're done, but you're not giving up with out a fight. I am that exact same person. If you aren't in a place to throw in the towel so be it. But don't stick this out for the kids. And sorry but a little 2x4 here don't say it's for the kids when it's not. Since this newest little revelation of H being a waste of oxygen you bring up the girls a lot but it's nearly always about how you think they are going to feel, and all of that is based on how you're feeling. Not the reality of how they will deal with things, because the truth is you don't know. Some kids take all of this stuff very personally, but most kids won't give a d@mn that they have a separated mommy and daddy once they start getting 2 christmases and birthdays. The wonderful thing about children is they are incredibly self involved by design. And also resilient. If you love them and support them to the best of your ability none of this has to affect them deeply or in the long term.

Knowing my girls, I think they are going to take this very, very badly. In different ways. I think my older daughter will be very angry, probably at both of us. I see her angry at her dad for leaving and angry at her mom for "making" him leave (even if I don't, but because I was mean to him or whatever she'll come up with as to why he had to choose to go.) The younger internalizes things and is incredibly sensitive emotionally. If one of us yells at her about something I'll often find her later, sobbing as if her heart is broken, saying she's a bad girl, this is all her fault, daddy or mommy (whoever yelled) doesn't love her. I know I need to get over this and I can get them therapists and all the rest. I just don't *see* that yet, that they will be fine. And so since I'm their mom and I can't see that yet, I don't see how I can authentically parent them through this and lie to them and myself about what I see in front of us. I will keep working at getting to a place where I see them better off with us apart, and then I think I can go full bore. But I can't do that until I get to that place (or until the decision is taken out of my hands, I guess-- in which case I can take the hand I'm dealt and do the very best I can).

If you always choose to put your daughters' feeling above your own regardless of the hate fire you have for H or AP or who ever may come in the future, you will always have well adjusted, happy girls. You're an amazing mother. And he's a great dad. The only thing imposing on them not having a rough go of it isn't you two separating and ending the marriage, it's you two in a constant power struggle for the rest of their lives. You don't have to be the bigger person now or ever. But as I've told wooba, I will tell you. Meet him where he's at. You can't expect rational behavior or logical, mindful choices from your H. The sooner you can start making the best decisions for you and the girls devoid of emotion the better. Because for the rest of the girls life you will have to be the bigger person. The more detached person. The water off a duck's back person. Because H isn't capable. You have to choose your battles. You have to choose your words. You have to make the hard decisions and swallow your ego more often than you should. But it's what we do as mothers.

I feel like maybe I'm not that great of a mom when I read this, and I think about H telling me I'm the one being selfish if I can't put them above my own feelings if we split. Maybe he's right. I can't. I can't see being the bigger person right now. I am angry and spiteful and want to use every weapon in my arsenal (besides them) to hurt him, if we go down that path. Maybe I'm afraid more of myself and who I am afraid I'll become than anything else.

Stay if you need more time to figure this out. Leave if you can't take this any more. But please don't do either based almost entirely on what you think the girls want or need. They need two parents who love them. That doesn't mean they need you together.

I'm at a place right now where I feel I know I'll be OK if we split. Maybe better off. I'm not yet to the place where I think they'll be better off.

And I did not sign up to parent them half time. I want them full time. They are my kids and I want them with me. So if he was willing to run off into the sunset and do as he's saying he'll do right now (but which I don't actually believe), that they could stay here six of seven nights a week... then OK. But if he gets to go be an entitled @ss AND take away my children from me half of the nights a week? F HIM AND THE HORSE HE CAME IN ON. I am very angry about this idea and I don't don't don't want it. So that is a big thing for me too.

I think awhile back Sage asked me if I could get to a place where I DGAF which path my H chose... I think I'm close to there. Scout asked what percentage of me wanted him to stay vs. go. I'm at say 55-45 right now. I want to get to 50-50.

[cardinal]

Ah, may, I identify with your anger and spitefulness right now! Ducks. I am over on MLC always trying to be the bigger, more evolved person I want to be, but right at this moment I just want to give in to anger, as you know. I have followed along as you and Wayfarer and others have been able to separate themselves from AP, and I feel like I have many good models in all of you. I understand it all intellectually, but as I read through your story about your neighbors' D, and the wife announcing and then immediately heading out nights, I got angry again. That is my H. It is also the not trying I haven't come to terms with.

If I never had to see him again, if there wasn't all the complications of the children and how this would affect them and knowing he is going to be a part of my life forever no matter what... the thought of walking away and never seeing him again (even though it is impossible) is so freeing. There would be pain but it would be like the Queen of Dragons walking through fire and emerging unscathed and stronger than ever on the other side. Maybe I can imagine my girls like tiny dragons who will get stronger through the fire.

What a gorgeous, fierce image! I can tell you, though I don't know how I would honestly feel if I did have kids (though I imagine it would be pretty much as you do, with this whole other white hot dimension of anger), I don't feel this sense of freedom without them either. If I was younger, like 30, I think I might. Instead, I tend to feel in my worst moments like the past seventeen years were kind of a waste. I'm sure I should be looking at it like, at least I didn't make a kid with this person, but instead I think at least then something beautiful would have come out of the M. Something beautiful impossible to doubt or deny or rewrite. I wasn't sure I wanted kids, though in later years I think I started to but on some half-aware level doubted H would be able to compromise and do things adults need to do to parent a child, or I'd think about the way he'd get so angry when we argued, how I was glad we didn't have kids who were exposed to that. Now I really can't see how I will ever be able to have a child, and that is a loss I haven't even begun to process, because I have more immediate ones to deal with. I realize I'm looking at this in a somewhat simplistic kind of way, without fully considering the anguish I would feel going through this with children, or then having to co-parent and see AP or whoever else was in the picture on a regular basis. I mean, that all sounds awful, for sure. And I know it's not fair exactly to be like, if only I had a kid, this would be worth it! That's a lot of pressure to put on an imaginary child. I guess I'm just thinking about this other side of being childless too. I wish I felt like the Queen of Dragons! Maybe I will someday.

I think no matter what happens, you can still be the Queen walking through the fire stronger, and you can fiercely protect your girls with the strength you've gained. I hope in saying this, it doesn't sound like I'm minimizing your experience as a mother, which I can't know, or taking away from how you feel right now. You are an amazing mom, may; don't let anything your H says make you doubt that. I think everything you're feeling is 100% justified. I hope your IC appointment is just what you need today.

[may22]

Oh, Cardinal, I almost didn't write that because I didn't want you to read it and think I didn't empathize with where you are and how you're feeling right now. I totally get that there is so much wrapped up in our marriages and our partners and our dreams and futures and all the rest. I actually think at first for me, those were the things that were harder-- the financial insecurity especially in the long term because much of "our" retirement cushion and health insurance stuff all comes through him; the loss of identity as his wife; the loss of your H as the person you knew in all ways-- lover, friend, partner; the loss of what you imagined would be in the future. All that is enormous and I am not for one second minimizing it. I guess for me I feel I've processed a lot of that and am ready and OK to face that fire for me. I'm just not ready to have them follow me through it.

(((cardinal))) I know you'll walk through that white-hot fire and come out fierce and lovely and glowing golden with zen peace shining in your eyes... that is how I imagine you.

[cardinal]

Oh, no worries, may! I didn’t think you were minimizing anything either. I’m glad you wrote it because it made me think about why I don’t feel that sense of freedom, and helped me think about children a bit more. I do feel a little glimmer of I dgaf how he reacts when I stand firm for what the law entitles me to. I think anger will help me get through any more displays of anger from him, but I don’t want to turn bitter in the process. I’m sure everyone here will help me stay on the right track. I don’t want to miss out on that zen peace. Much love to you!

[wooba]

You’re at 55-45! I think you’ve made huge progress

I understand your worries about your girls. I think the children might be angry, they will probably have big feelings, but they will be okay in time. In my opinion, you have to put yourself first, even before your girls in your decision making. It is your life. You are not living your life for your children. Another thing is you are leading by example. However, if I were in your shoes, I can see another possibility of waiting it out until the girls are older then file for D. But then I would think I would be doing myself a disservice by caving into staying in a M that I no longer believe in, and the pretense of a M for the sake of my kids would kill my soul.

50/50 with the children is obviously not ideal. Few days ago I was calculating the number of hours per week outside of school time they have. Minus sleep time, there really aren’t that many hours left. And to divide that in half of course it’s worse. I can only see it as if it happens, we will be forced to really cherish those hours we have with them. Make those hours count. And I believe that to be the case for the children too. I know when I leave them for a few hours, they appreciate me more when I come back. Lol. I see it as a practice to let go, because they will grow up one day and have their own identities other than “wooba’s children.”

Well, clearly I’m advocating for you to fire your H...but like wayfarer said, you do you. You get to wherever you want in your own timeline. Whatever it is, I am here to cheer you on virtually.

[wayfarer]

Honestly, WF, I think you're just a better person than me. I can't see myself ever getting there.

Hahahaha, I doubt that highly. You just aren't there with H yet. And my exH didn't try to leave me for another woman. He was far too busy with booze and pills. It's easier to forgive an addiction that isn't a person. AODA issues don't feel personal when you've had enough Al-anon or therapy. It takes years and years to accept that an addiction to another person isn't personal. And in your case a younger version of you...my god. (Oh hey btw Becky with the good hair, looks exactly like me but browner, dresses the same, same glasses. So clearly these guys have types.) You have a lot of justified rage. But I promise there will come a day when you are grateful that he was the one to give you those beautiful babies if absolutely nothing else.

Agreed. But our house is not toxic right now. I know it to my bones. I see it could get toxic because I think it has been in the past, and the girls are older now too and will pick up on a lot more of that than they did before. But today, I stand by the environment I'm giving them, today, as a mom is a good one.

You are a good one. And you'll see it happening. You're self aware. I have no doubt about that. I just worry how long you'll hold the line for out of spite or sheer determination. I know you are just as stubborn as I am, and I just wanted to make sure you can see how quickly your unaddressed rage and resentment and H's just all out delusions of grandeur and fence sitting can turn your quiet home into a uncomfortably silent home.

Knowing my girls, I think they are going to take this very, very badly. In different ways. I think my older daughter will be very angry, probably at both of us. I see her angry at her dad for leaving and angry at her mom for "making" him leave (even if I don't, but because I was mean to him or whatever she'll come up with as to why he had to choose to go.) The younger internalizes things and is incredibly sensitive emotionally. If one of us yells at her about something I'll often find her later, sobbing as if her heart is broken, saying she's a bad girl, this is all her fault, daddy or mommy (whoever yelled) doesn't love her. I know I need to get over this and I can get them therapists and all the rest. I just don't *see* that yet, that they will be fine. And so since I'm their mom and I can't see that yet, I don't see how I can authentically parent them through this and lie to them and myself about what I see in front of us. I will keep working at getting to a place where I see them better off with us apart, and then I think I can go full bore. But I can't do that until I get to that place (or until the decision is taken out of my hands, I guess-- in which case I can take the hand I'm dealt and do the very best I can).

You can't see it because you keep hearing from those of us who've seen people on the other side way on the other side. But like wooba said, they will have very big feelings over all of this. D17 did. She was very mad we couldn't work it out. She was pissed when I started dating. She was more pissed when we started doing things as a family with D16 and H. She was really, really pissed when exH started dating the lovely girl because he met her on Tinder and D17 found that disgusting and unsafe, and I just laughed at her and called her judgey. Then he blew up that relationship and tried to force the new winner of a gf on D17 and she was pissed yet again. This isn't smooth sailing. None of this stuff is. And even in the someday version of "everything will be ok" that is only a half truth. Things are ok eventually but not perpetually so. Life isn't static. Whether you and H work this out or not things are going to be hard on the girls. They are getting older. They are going to pick up when things are tense, and let say you work it out and go through years of therapy and marriage retreats and the whole 9 they are old enough to remember this and will look back on this time at some point and go "well sh!t so their marriage was falling apart." If you can't work it out and you separate and D it's the same things. They have to process those feelings multiple times. It's a life event. The way D17 sees our split now isn't the way she saw it at 9/10. It's an ongoing process. As much as you like to my dear, you can't stop your children from experiencing pain or blaming you for it. The only thing you can do is support them the best you can on sad days. And on the angry, love them enough for the both of you. That's it. And honestly you do know your girls better than anyone, but you can't, can't, can't know how they will handle S/D. Mother's are gifted with a lot of things, but predicting a reaction to a crisis isn't one of them.

I feel like maybe I'm not that great of a mom when I read this, and I think about H telling me I'm the one being selfish if I can't put them above my own feelings if we split. Maybe he's right. I can't. I can't see being the bigger person right now. I am angry and spiteful and want to use every weapon in my arsenal (besides them) to hurt him, if we go down that path. Maybe I'm afraid more of myself and who I am afraid I'll become than anything else.

I know if and when the time comes you'll do the right thing. That being said, if you don't adequately address that rage I've been telling you about you will not put their feelings above you're own. You won't be the bigger person. You will help to drag out the S/D for years to "win." You are a great mom. And you would never intentionally use your children as pawns but if you don't get the spiteful side in check before you move forward in one direction or another it may happen inadvertently. You need to find an outlet for this anger and you need to dump. The anger your feeling can not be meditated away. It needs to be confronted head on. And whether you scream into a canyon alone or buy a punching bag or find a rage room it needs to be dealt with. You need "You Oughta Know" on loud as h3ll and you need to work this out, because you deserve it. Because H deserves all this rage. AP deserves all this rage. But you're never going to get clear headed enough to detach appropriately if you don't confront that Hulk version of May you've been pushing down for IMO way too long.

I'm at a place right now where I feel I know I'll be OK if we split. Maybe better off. I'm not yet to the place where I think they'll be better off.

And I did not sign up to parent them half time. I want them full time. They are my kids and I want them with me. So if he was willing to run off into the sunset and do as he's saying he'll do right now (but which I don't actually believe), that they could stay here six of seven nights a week... then OK. But if he gets to go be an entitled @ss AND take away my children from me half of the nights a week? F HIM AND THE HORSE HE CAME IN ON. I am very angry about this idea and I don't don't don't want it. So that is a big thing for me too.

No one wants this. But statistics have show time and time again that 50/50 is what's best. You have to stop seeing it as H taking your kids away from you and looking at it as what is judiciously and statistically appropriate. 50/50 isn't about H and you. 50/50 is about the girls. It's that simple. And it is hard. And scary at first God it's so, so hard. And they are still young and so enjoyable. But in the year or two it would take to sort the whole S/D out they will be less young and I can tell you from experience less enjoyable. No matter what you miss them when they are gone. I cry every time D17 leaves. H worries immensely when D16 is by her bio mom. Constantly checking in. It isn't easy and I won't paint it as such. But that time, as long as there aren't any emergencies, becomes your time. And that is one of the great advantages to being in two households vs one. You have built in time that is just yours that you can do with as you please. You can sleep, you can read, you can watch movies they'd hate or aren't appropriate. When you're ready you can use that time to date. You can work extra hours on your off weeks so you can work a little less on the weeks you do have them so can make the most of your time with them. You can do extra work outs. Extra therapy. Extra meditating. Extra anything that's you time. You're children are not ripped away from you with split placement and custody. You are given time to GAL so when you do have them you can just focus on them. For a lot of us who carried the burden with household workload and parenting joint placement and custody was a god send. It honestly was the first time in years, I was able to do things for myself. Or get a drink after work. Sleep in undisturbed. As she's gotten older her leaving to go by exH and now just out since exH and her don't really do visits any more it's nice for her to just not be here or in my space. I love her. But my god. There's only so much teenage girl one person can take before they just resort to day drinking on a Tuesday. So much of this ugly stuff is how you frame it. Some times when you're swirling in the negative aspects of things you need to take a step back and look at what positives things can be brought with the same change.

I think awhile back Sage asked me if I could get to a place where I DGAF which path my H chose... I think I'm close to there. Scout asked what percentage of me wanted him to stay vs. go. I'm at say 55-45 right now. I want to get to 50-50.

Honey I honestly think you're already there.

[may22]

Cardinal, I love you getting a glimmer of IDGAF. Fan those flames, girl. I think you are a looooooong ways away from turning bitter, if it is ever even possible for you. People here coached me on digging into my anger a little and I do think it has really helped me, even as it is disconcerting and destabilizing to be in that space.

Wooba, thanks for the good words on progress I've been thinking about you a lot. I know you're so right about cherishing every hour you do have, and one day we will need to let them go completely. I have friends with college aged or slightly older children who are now living at home, and they are in seventh heaven to get all this extra amazing time with them because of the pandemic. My one friend whose kids are home told me she has laughed more in the last few months than she ever has, joking around with her kids, they started some sort of exercise competition that apparently is hilarious. I'm so happy for her and then think of how hard that transition must be. A colleague I work with, older, very stoic man, had his daughter go off to college last year. I asked him how he was doing about it the week after she left and he looked at me and said it was very, very hard. He had been sleeping in her bed since she left and the pillow smelt like her. I was like DANG MAN I can't believe you just told me that in my head-- and also how very, very difficult it had to have been for him to not only do that but to tell ME about it. Obviously he got over it but it was really staggering to think of what that must be like-- and his kid was 18. I was reading FS's thread about remembering the children going off on a vacation with their dad without her and how horrible that was and it made me want to throw up just thinking about it. I remember reading that part in her thread months ago and wanting to throw up then too.

Wayfinder, I know you’re right. I think I’ll be able to $uck it all up when the time comes and do what is right for the kids because I have to. I’ll find an outlet for my anger. I want it to power me through the next phases but I can’t let it affect the girls. I appreciate you being honest, though, that this all does just $uck. It isn’t okay. It is sad and awful and will be something that affects them for the rest of their lives. I feel like I can manage all of that and do it OK if it wasn’t my choice, though, you know what I mean? If it is something that happens TO me, I can deal with it and do my best and use whatever tools I have at my disposal to heal and be the best mom I can be. If I am responsible for the final decision, I am not yet to a place that I can do all of that.

Anyway. The kid part is hard. I told the IC yesterday that I can see two paths for me right now, equally difficult, equally OK, to stay in and work on the M and to go. That I've been focusing on the many positive things about not being M to him anymore and they feel good. In fact, when I think about staying, losing those things starts to feel like a shame (like my puppy) and are starting to loom larger and larger for me. But I also told her-- I purposely don't think about the kids when I'm doing this exercise. It is me and me only. If I let them creep into the picture it all comes crashing down.

The IC and I talked more about my anger about a bunch of things, not all having to do with the children-- the financial piece and loss of financial security is a big one. I feel like I’m keeping my anger where it is. Alison, mine isn’t a big beautiful bear. I imagine mine like a tornado (but round somehow) that hasn’t touched down yet but is spinning and hot and full of unbridled power. And when I need it, when that step of S is taken, it will touch down and power me down the path I need to take, clearing out everything in my way. I don’t know that that is a healthy thing (I didn’t talk about it in this way to the IC) but that is what I’m picturing, at least now. Still kind of untamable but somehow not as scary as the rabid bear I had earlier (or Wayfinder, the May Hulk).

We talked about grieving, too. She wants to start there next time. Even starting the conversation about my grief really opened something up in me. I went back through my journal and read about how I was feeling from earlier BDs and it rocked me again. I am feeling sad and low-level anxious again now, a little resigned.

We spent some time on H, can he change, why do I think he could, why do I think I could trust him again. And for me, again, it is this enduring belief that what we have between us is strong enough to weather this storm, that there is a possibility- however small it is starting to seem— that he *can* do the hard work, that I can too, that we end up on the other side of this stronger and better because of it. And I know I only control half of what it takes to get there. But I guess I’m still standing, I’m still here, because of this coupled with my inability to take a step that I think-- at least today-- will be detrimental to the children.

I also spent more time processing with her the real possibilities of the split time situation. Wayfarer, god, I hear you and I know you’re right. The kids absolutely deserve 50/50 time with them. What I’ve written out in a proposal (but haven’t shared with him yet formally, though we’ve talked about it a little) is that we’d stop after school care, he’d take them from 2:30 - 5:30 every day, I’d take them from 5:30 until bedtime (8:30) so that would be an even split of awake time. (Mornings are a $hitshow and don’t count.) I worked out a schedule where they spent the night with him Friday nights and he dropped them off with me at like 5:30 or something (I can’t remember exactly without looking it up) on Saturday and then we had exactly even awake time with them, but their home base was with me and they slept here every night. So they’d get 50-50 time with us, but because of the sleeping situation I’d have what is considered full custody and get child support.

I think it is fair and in alignment with what he’s said he wants. But, I also know that he’s an @sshole and will want to be an @ss when I’m no longer kissing his, and I can 100% believe that a few months down the line, especially with AP whispering in his ear, he’ll start to look at that child support payment and say why can’t they sleep here with me half the time? If he goes down the path of selfishness and entitlement, I have no reason to believe he’ll make any decisions that are in my best interest, allowing me to afford the mortgage payments on the house etc, no matter what he is saying now. So that is a part of it too.

And if I walk it will be the excuse he’ll sit in until we are 100 years old, that I was the one to make the decision. I know it in my heart. And I’m not yet detached enough to make that not matter. He’ll take my kicking him out and run with it. He’ll tell the children, he'll wallow in it, he'll throw it in my face at my granddaughter's wedding. And I’m not yet at a place where I’m okay with any of that.

The IC said she felt I was stronger and that the boundaries were really helping, encouraged me to stick with them. She pushed me a LOT on what happens if we don't go on this trip and when will I be ready to say enough? I said, IDK and she wouldn’t let that be the end. We talked about my core value of the family and what was best for the children, and I told her what I’d written above, about being able to walk when I can see that my parenting is being affected negatively, when I can see that the MR has deteriorated to the point where it is negatively affecting the children— then I can go. She was supportive of this, said that watching everyone’s emotional health will be important.

H and I talked more this morning. He tried a variety of different ways to get me to agree to just go on this trip without making it an ultimatum and referendum on everything. He said he’d been thinking what happens if I don’t go, does he go by himself, is there any way I would let him go with the girls for the whole time, but that he doesn’t want that. He wants me there. I feel like he’s setting this trip up as some kind of test, which is really stupid and I refuse to participate in some kind of beauty pageant to prove anything to my H.

I held my line. I said I can’t do it. I can’t do what you’re asking.

More of the same. He ended up saying he was mad at me. He feels like I don’t understand him and don’t try to. I’m not sure I see the point right now.

If I had to guess I think he’s going to do what I’m asking. I’m honestly not sure how I feel about that. I guess I'm pretty close to that 50-50 mark, Wayfinder-- you might be right. I really don't think I GAF anymore what he chooses. I just want him to put on his big boy pants, take responsibility for what he's created here, and make a decision, one way or another, to move forward.

[Ginger1]

You can make the final decision and it would still not be your choice. Your decision was based upon a very poor choice your husband made and carried on for some time. And what happened will probably come to light when your daughters are older and I’m pretty sure they would never ever blame you.