Hello all, thank you for taking the time to read my post. I've had a chance to read much of the various forums/posts and feel comfortable my wife is going through MLC.
History: Married 8 years, together 14 Wife is 12 years younger We've been together since she was in her early 20s, prior to that she was with high school sweetheart for 5 years Oldest child, daughter of narcissistic mother, parents had a nasty divorce just shy of 30th anniversary 1 child, 5 yo daughter Wife states she's no longer in love with me Had EA with minor physicality (kissing) then broke it off and 6 weeks later had full PA with different man
Timeline: Mid Dec 2019 she began EA with coworker
End of Dec 2019 they met and kissed. Probably no further than that (ind. confirmed).
We (family) moved overseas for her job Jan 1 2020
She continued the EA via social media during Jan 2020. I was clueless.
Her behavior toward me in Jan 2020 became increasingly hostile and impatient, bitchy, moody, miserable, no laughing. Where's my fun wife?
Daughter and I were evacuated out of country Feb 1
Feb 14, 2020 was D-Day (I know, Valentine's Day. Cheaters are so good with the holidays!)
ILYBINILWY, for the win!
I was blindsided, but was able to keep my cool at the moment, wife was cold, distant, unemotional
No remorse, no guilt, like she's been checked out of the marriage for a long time
I made some mistakes, didn't go dark, didn't do 180, committed some pushing behaviors but I didn't beg, cry, yell, get angry, or plead!. Suggested she seek out counseling due to stress of job and separation from family, and she complied.
Was able to read and learn quickly about affairs (I think I read the whole internet!), I began individual counseling, sought out spiritual guidance, hit the gym hard, did the MLC diet--lost 20 lbs and looking good! Lol. I started to become a better man. Better communication skills by far! People notice. Women notice. Not bad, eh?
Mid March wife tells me she broke up with EA partner, but not interested in repairing marriage. He divorced his wife, broke up his own family, but made the teeny mistake of trying to see multiple women and lied about it to my wife but accidentally texted her and called the wrong name. Huh? Cheaters can't be trusted? They don't always tell the truth? Smh. Just wading through the swamp here folks. Told my wife I was sorry she was hurting when she told me he broke her heart. How detached am I now? :-)
Third week of March wife tells me she wants daughter and I to return to her residence (out of US) but didn't elaborate. I told her calmly that if we return it's to work on the marriage.
Beginning of April wife confesses to PA with coworker. He's also married and his dept ships him and his family out of country. Wife blames it on stress but later says it was emotional bonding as well as physical attraction. I actually saw this one coming as I knew they'd been spending a lot of time together. Boom! I'm getting good at this! I was so cool. She told me, then I took a long sip of my coffee, and told her, "Yeah, I figured as much. So what are you going to do?"
First week of April wife states, very unenthusiastically, that she wants to work on marriage. I suspect it's more to do with her being depressed and wanting to get daughter back to her residence even if it means I'm part of the package. Gotta say, the complete lack of any shred of desire on her part was so alarming! I didn't buy it for a second. Decided to wait and see if she took action (marital counseling, etc.) but she didn't.
Three more weeks go by (brings us to today) without word of her seeking marital counseling. Today we talk and she admits, after general questioning that she's still in contact with her PA partner. Not even that upsetting to me any more. What I've read here about how the WS goes in and out, forward and backward, and the actual length of time I'll be involved with this behavior really set my expectations where they should be. This game is not for the impatient fan!
Ok, with all of that, I'm faced with a few choices and would appreciate feedback on the following options:
1. If the evac is cancelled we can go back to her overseas place of employment. I'm considering a "separated but living together" arrangement with her.
2. Or, she can ask for transfer back to US to the company headquarters but her EA partner works there so that would suck. Income would be far less in this arrangement as well.
3. Daughter and I can stay in US and maintain own household but daughter would only be able to see mom 1 or 2 times per year. Since I've been the primary caregiver since daughter was born, my employment and income options are limited. Therefore, would need to file for divorce to secure child support and spousal support (I gave up careers to enable her to pursue hers). Not what I want at all. I prefer to stand for the marriage before resorting to divorce but staying in the US would force my hand here.
I proposed the idea of separated but living together to her as a way to meet the needs of our daughter having a mom, my wife having a daughter, wife and I would to negotiate details of the arrangement but would include separate bedrooms and bathrooms. I would be able to find employment with her company as well. Wife was very receptive. The most receptive I've seen her in all the months we've been dealing with this stuff.
Lots of positives with separated but living together but I am very interested in other peoples opinions and potential liabilities. I feel like it may be the only way to enable our daughter to have a relationship with her mother, avoid divorce, and God willing, allow the foundations for reconciliation to be laid. Not at first, of course. But it's within the realm of the possible.
Wife's work takes her from country to country so she wouldn't be back here for a long time--like years. I agree with letting her find her path, finish her journey, but with that kind of time away the likelihood of us ever finding our way back to each other is vanishingly small. So there's a big risk here. Separated and living together, if not done well, could be a disaster of epic proportions. But if done well and consistently, may be all I have to help us find our way back. And if not, my daughter has her mom and we avoid divorce and all the messiness that divorce entails.. As a child of divorce myself, I'd love to avoid that experience for my daughter at all costs!
As for me, I agree with Esther Perel: My marriage is dead. The question is can my wife and I build a new one together?
I feel healthy. My wife, as crazy as her behavior may be, hasn't shirked her family responsibilities (I and my daughter are financially dependent on her especially with Covid-19), we talk every day via video chat as we need to coordinate communication with our daughter (90% of the time we keep it light and family business/daughter oriented), so things could be much, much worse. I've come to realize MLC takes not weeks, or months, or a year. This will take her years to figure out. Am I man enough to stand and be the lighthouse? I believe I am. No one else but me.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I want to start by saying that I am really sorry you are here right now but I think you have come to the right place.
I have to say that as far as newbies go you are handling yourself very well. The fact that you understand that this is likely to take years to play out tells me you have done your research.
You didn't mention ages but I'm guessing your W is mid to late 30s based on your post. I'm always skeptical of MLC prior to 40 though not impossible.
In house seperation is very difficult and rarely works but a lot of that is because the LBS does not know how to act in IHS.
You sound like a research junky so have you read up on masculine and feminine energy. You mentioned you are the primary caregiver for your daughter which is typically the role of the mother in a family. Do you do all the household chores like laundry and cleaning?
I have a feeling you know what your up against and that this is going to be the toughest thing you have ever endured.
Thanks for your reply! Yes, I'm in my late 40s and she's in her mid/late 30s. I agree with you about the age and onset of MLC. It's definitely at the lower end of the range. I hesitated for a while before feeling comfortable with my MLC conclusion but nothing else really fits, not covert or overt narcissism, not BPD, she didn't fall down the stairs and hit her head!, etc. Even if I'm wrong, the approach to MLC is an excellent one and the tools and techniques can only help and sheer volume of information on this site, and others, will be extremely helpful!
I agree with you 100% regarding your comment about how LBH may act during IHS. The wife and I have an interesting situation as she's the more nurturing, emotional, care-giving one by nature and I'm more logical, purpose driven, and I'm able to detach emotionally to get a particular task done when needed. She's really quite feminine and I'm very masculine. We decided to swap the typical in-home roles due primarily to her income potential and our mutual desire for her to more fully pursue her career. Even though she agreed to the arrangement, I sense there is resentment in her as to the outcome. She seems to have some lack of maturity in dealing with her decisions and emotions--almost to the point of arrested adolescence on occasion. This may help explain her sense of entitlement in all of this. But this is nothing new. I, in my infinite wisdom, simply believed she'd outgrow it or I could love her through it. Nope, doesn't work that way.
Masculine and feminine energy: yes, I've done quite a bit of reading about that concept and believe it makes a lot of sense! I'd be interested in your take on that as well. In an interesting twist of fate, although I did work part time while married, I made myself responsible for the bulk of the household chores when we were together to lessen the stress and burden on her while she was the primary earner. This may have backfired as she may have seen these efforts in a non-complementary light.
My self esteem, masculinity, and ego are such that I can sweep a floor, change a diaper, or cook a meal and still be 100% man. I'm not a beta male nor am I domineering. I'm just self assured enough to do whatever I feel needs doing without apologies or labels. Naturally, that would end in an IHS situation. We have several months before the evac is lifted so there is plenty of time to work out the details, but that level of effort on my part is reserved for a wife and not a roommate or business partner.
So, the biggest concern from you seems to be the LBS doesn't know how to act. Yup! That does seem like it could be a big issue. Naturally, there's no way to be certain how I'll act or respond, but I do know I am as immovable as a mountain when I need to be. My masculine energy is such that I am fully confident in my abilities to focus on a goal, set a plan of action, begin the work required, and see it to its conclusion. In all honesty, I'm a little more worried about her not respecting the boundaries. She's emotional, lonely, and she hasn't seen me since I went on the MLC diet!
Part of my proposal included that we are free date other people with the caveats that we are respectful to the separation agreement and to the needs of our daughter. I kind of like the idea of opening up the relationship to dating. It's been a while since I was with a woman who seemed to really want to be with me (in hindsight, the wife's been miserable for quite some time and has acted that way). It might be nice for a change!
The truth is I have little doubt I can handle my end of things. I feel like I know what I'm getting into and realize it's not a "back door" to reconciliation, or simple, or easy. Being my idea, I've given it a lot of thought and have, what I believe are realistic expectations. I see it primarily as a way to give our daughter the family all children need, prevent the messiness of divorce (lawyers, selling our home, splitting assets, child custody, maintaining separate households, etc.), continue healthcare benefits, preserve retirement funds, continue to support each other (even through the past 3 months wife and I have had each other's backs) with logistics and difficulties of moving to a new country every few year, and most importantly--our daughter will have the security of knowing both her parents are available even if we're in an unusual arrangement. The wife has complained we've been more like business partners these past few years (and I tend to agree) so why not build on this and use our strengths to our advantage?
But, I'm still technically a LBS without the same degree of detachment my wife has been able to generate over that past year or two. I'm still catching up and while my head is on a lot straighter than hers due to my personal growth and development over the past 3 months, I know better than to believe I have it (or anything) all figured out. And that's why I posted.
If anyone else can weigh in on unexpected pitfalls, pearls of wisdom, or even cautionary tales it would be greatly appreciated!!
Fuch dude I have to say you really sound like you got your $hit together. Though I will quote Mike Tyson "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face". IHS is very tough if your not detached.
Just remember when your dating to be honest up front because you don't want anyone to get into something they are not aware they are getting into with you.
Thanks for the kind words! I feel like I've benefited from lots and lots of research, individual counseling, spiritual guidance, and of course hours of talking to trusted friends and family.
Detachment has been difficult to say the least and I'm not fully there yet--but I'm a lot farther along than I was. It's been helpful to view my wife's affair behavior from various viewpoints:
1. It's a car wreck on the highway and I'm just driving by. I can have sympathy for the people involved but also be glad I'm not a directly involved part of their wreckage.
2. As if she was a nice neighbor who is going through a tough time. I might bring over something for her to eat or mow her lawn for her, but beyond that I don't get involved.
3. This one's my favorite: two different men tried to get involved with my wife and they both got burned hard and fast! They dared to touch the likes of MY wife and paid the price in lost jobs and wives and families. I've been with her for 14 years and I can barely handle her! Lol, what chance did they have?
My perspective has been hard won and only after several missteps. For the time being, she's gone and that's fine. At first I couldn't accept that but once I was able to wrap my head around it and put it aside, I found I was free to consider other avenues of pursuit. What can I affect and what is beyond my control?
If I lost a leg, how long would I mourn the loss? Or would I get myself the coolest prosthetic and learn how to run? I would run. Same thing here. I want to accept the loss, adapt and overcome in the current situation. I can't save the marriage right now but I can play a big part in preserving my daughter's childhood and innocence. Maybe that's all I can expect right now. And truly, is there any higher calling? Anything else is wishes and hopes and the stakes are too high with my daughter.
Love the quote by the way! Tyson has emerged as a warrior poet in his later years. Respect. One in return: "I may not be where I want to be, but thank God I'm not where I used to be!"
Rally, I'm sorry you are here but you´re doing better than most LBS considering how early on in your sitch you are! And on top of that, you have the best writing style I've seen in a long time. Feels like I'm reading a book! Narrated by Kelsey Grammer!
I'm sure the vets will be here to offer advice soon. Usually slows down over the weekends a bit.
Me: 38 Stbxw: 35 No kids Mini bd: February 6, 2019 ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019 Told her to move out: September 8, 2019 W moved out: September 28, 2019 Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Thanks for the kind words. Kelsey Grammar, huh? Nice! I've always liked him...
We're all in a pickle here. It seems we can learn the path out but dammit--the patience required seems to be the hardest part. Sure, any of us could walk away but each of us, for various reasons, has chosen to honor commitment and marriage over self. For the time being.
If my wife and I decide IHS is the right choice, we both need to acknowledge that we enter without expectation of reconciliation. It has to be a long term alternative to divorce or separated living apart. Just because it's not what I planned or how I saw my life doesn't mean it can't be the next chapter in our story.
You do know there has to be a plan for when of you meets someone else, right? BecUse I don’t know one person in their right mind who date someone who was living with their spouse in a business arrangement. And if there is someone crazy enough to do that, eventually they would not tolerate it anymore, would want more etc..... your W doesn’t seem like the type to not date. Since she is cheating.
What you are proposing is basically an open marriage. Which doesn’t work in the long run. And to another person either of you are dating, you are basically leading a double life. Which won’t be healthy for anyone, including your daughter
