Standing vs standing still

[Yail]

I have let him have things pretty much his way. If I start acting irrationally now, he will retaliate.

First instinct when reading this is "Well, too darned bad for him". Because who are we to subvert our needs to another's? Can't they be on equal footing? But then...we get to priorities.

My priority (for ME - I'm sure others have different experiences and will state so) was an amicable D. Over being "right", over being heard, over any of the physical items in our home. I just did not want any escalation of any kind because I knew it would hurt me emotionally and I knew in the long run it would cost me more financially. So that was my conscious choice. It sounds like you're leaning that way too, but I hope you really consider it and just confirm that's your plan of action. Just so you are firm in whatever your decision is.

This was how I let go of my need to say my piece. I am okay with not having said everything I wanted to say. I knew it was secondary to my decision on not fighting.


I know you have a weird week ahead of you without the kids but also with mediation. You will get through it. Be productive with your time - plan your life, get ahead on items - it will help with the stress you're feeling. Nothing quite like taking care of your future in the present. Or maybe it's just procrastinators like me that are amazed when things like that happen. You seem like a woman who really has her stuff sorted out.

[FlySolo]

First mediation today. The mediator explained that she is there to facilitate, keep us focused and to produce some sort of non-binding agreement at the end. If we decide to divorce, then the agreement gets submitted to the court, with the petition and then it becomes legally binding. It was all very administrative, and not too dissimilar from a business type negotiation I would do on any other day of the week. On average it's 3 joint sessions and they produce two docs at the end. Cheaper than court and thrashing it out through solicitors (though she said to get everything looked at by a solicitor).

I was surprisingly calm. Even jovial. Maybe because I've changed my mindset and a part of it is very much a business transaction now. I explained our sitch (well, the childcare related and financial related aspects) and stated what I wanted.

She did ask me to confirm if it was our intention to divorce. Apparently when he booked the meeting he was unclear - he simply said we needed to work through house split and childcare. Admittedly, when he booked the session we had had a civil but slightly heated exchange about the house which turned into a discussion primary carer and ended with him saying "we need to get a mediator involved" and my saying "cool - set one up and I will make myself available".

As mine was the first session I sent him a friendly"hiya - I have the mediator thing today and just wanted to confirm some details" followed by the main dates in our relationship (started co-habitated, first bought property, got married, date he moved out) and asked him also if he had taken our marriage certificate (as it's gone missing again). He read it but didn't respond. I followed up with a "just to let you know I've used the dates in the message above but we can change later if you disagree". Again no response.

I've missed the children and if im honest I miss him. But I think it is because they are away together as a family. He is away so much that him not being here barely registers anymore. I would rather be with them than here on my own. I have been busy this week tidying up the house and generally chilling out. I've managed t do a bit of meditation (letting go, forgiveness and self love mainly) and also caught up with a girlfriend on Sunday (she stayed over, we drank wine and watched Bad Moms). The declutter is going slowly - but I've been quite ruthless so far. There is something freeing about throwing away lots of black bags, old cables, computer equipment, stereo systems that we haven't plugged in for 8 years. He told me not to throw out anything he might want, but f** it. If he had his way we'd still have broken car seats from when the kids were babies.

I have felt really strange all week. A bit like the weight has lifted. I think that it is because for so long it felt like I was treading water and now it feels like I am swimming towards something. Yes, it might not be the resolution I hoped for. I may never get the closure I deserve, but at least I can start looking forward again.

[oceangrl]

I am seriously crying here reading your thread. For the pain you have been through, but also at the beauty of so many posters supporting and believing in you. I am still in shock to find myself going in your direction. I am scared of what's to come. Finances, child sharing. The latter I can hardly bear. I take comfort in your strength.

I only add that you seem to be managing it well. I think Reiki is a great addition to IC, especially if it contributes to your peace and healing. I am glad the future is looking brighter for you.

[may22]

Hi FS,

I've been thinking about you and your sitch. I can't imagine what it must feel like to have them on a plane off on a "family" vacation without you and him sending you these nice texts, probably wanting you to feel OK about it and it just feeling so wrong and sad to you (and to me, reading). I think you are under no obligation to be buddy-buddy with him if you don't feel like it. You are going through an incredibly difficult time and you need to be there for yourself and your kids, first and foremost.

I really am glad you are getting the time to go through your house and purge. There is nothing like that feeling of ruthlessly tossing things that no longer serve you. And all the better that he would have whined about it but is no longer in a position to have much of a say. Also, I loved Bad Moms and Bad Mom Christmas is also hilarious. I watched it on an airplane and kept cracking up out loud.

The earbud thing is weird. As is the texting fun stuff and ignoring the mediation-related stuff. No mindreading here, but still. Weird.

One thing that Alison has been pushing me on in my thread is to really know MYSELF and what I want/need... I might suggest the same for you in/re how you go about the next steps with the mediator. I have so much respect for Yail for how she handled her D. I also kind of want Unchien to get the meanest shark possible for an L. (sorry, but I do.) I feel like I would fall somewhere in the middle, but in the end I think I'd fall to the self-protection side, just knowing myself and feeling I could always be nicer or more giving down the line. I just want to second Yail's recommendation to be sure you know your own priorities and what matters most to you in the longer term as you go into this process.

My IC said something along the lines of anger doesn't help anyone but this was in response to my telling her that I have been throwing grenades over the wall to provoke him. We are about to go into negotiations and she is afraid my emotions will make me say or do something which would harm me financially or in regards to the children, in the long run. She is right. I have always preached fairness when it comes to finances and the children but I feel that my anger could lead to petty squabbles. We have been (so far) able to maintain an amicable relationship - but that is because of me. I have let him have things pretty much his way. If I start acting irrationally now, he will retaliate. He is the type who would like all the chocolates in the box just so no-one else will eat them (true story from his childhood).

A couple things strike me here-- one is that you've mostly been letting him have his own way, and then "if I start acting irrationally..." I just want to point out that acting irrationally is not the opposite of letting him have things his own way. Yes, you want to keep your emotions in check and act rationally. You can ALSO stand up for yourself and not give in to him. You deserve half those chocolates in the box. The good ones. He can have the crappy nut and caramel ones that always get left till the end. Just saying.

Hang in there with the kids away. Hoping you can work in some additional time for yourself that would be harder if the kids were around.

[Yail]

Why is it that even for people who genuinely LIKE nuts and caramel, they still are always left to last in the box?

I have felt really strange all week. A bit like the weight has lifted. I think that it is because for so long it felt like I was treading water and now it feels like I am swimming towards something. Yes, it might not be the resolution I hoped for. I may never get the closure I deserve, but at least I can start looking forward again.

This is the perfect description of how I felt. I just needed to feel like I was making decisions for me, not being lead somewhere blind. Then it would go away again, and then when another step was taken (ie one more tiny thing resolved) I would feel lighter again.

It is interesting how H did not state clearly that you are headed towards D. He really has his head in the sand while standing right in front of you, doesn't he?

I like your factual updates to him. No presumption to what he is thinking, just commenting what has taken place. This will help get you through. Sometimes for me those tiny communications of facts made me more confident that I was taking the right steps. Hearing what I did (reiterating my steps out "loud" in email) made me see how common-sense and realistic I was being. It helps to counter the swirling in your head.

May and FS: Have you watched Workin' Moms? It's hysterical. I love it, and have watched the first 3 seasons twice now. Highly recommend. The first 30 seconds of the first episode really set the tone for the show, so you'll know right away if it's your style.

[dillydaf]

Hugs, FS. I know how hard it is when your H takes the kids away. Not only are you deprived of your kids, but also of family holidays. It really slams home how broken the M is and how truly we are left behind. I'm glad you're having a good clear out, I hope you find it therapeutic. It'll make moving so much easier. Well done on the mediation thing, you're moving closer to ending limbo. I've kind of decided to stay put in my home for a few more years, because our house is modest and downsizing makes no financial sense, because it's the kids' home and they have suffered enough loss, and because it suits us practically whilst the kids are finishing their education. I do sometimes want a fresh start though, and you will get that! In the meantime I'm making the house more my own, next stop I'm doing up the garden so I'm getting quotes for that to entertain friends in the summer Like your H, my H hates getting rid of things (too much loss in his teen years, I think), but this stuff is no longer up to them! Good for you for taking control of the Stuff

[AlisonUK]

This sounds tough, FS. I echo what May says about there being a difference between looking out for your own interests, being fair to yourself, and in being irrational. Your H might get angry and might see you standing up for needs and wants that he doesn't share or doesn't understand as irrational, but then if you both saw eye to eye on all of this - particularly the matter of each other's needs - well, you might be in a different place. I hope you can do this in a way that is calm and respectful and as amicable as possible, but I am not sure rolling over and not speaking up for the truth of what you want and need is a healthy way to go about that.

I had a big clear out when H moved out too. He keeps cardboard boxes and old broken computer equipment and even milk crates and the polystyrene casings that come inside kitchen appliance boxes. One dark day a few weeks after he'd moved out I went into the cellar in a whirling rage and took the entire lot out to the car and to the tip. I hurt my back too. But it was cathartic and even now he's back, he hasn't mentioned it...

[DejaVu6]

Hi FS. My XH doesn’t do holidays with the kids, just OW, so I haven’t had to go through the family holidays without mom thing yet. But I have done the holidays without him, during our marriage too, so the kids and I have lots of shared activities and memories. I am actually glad he hasn’t done anything with them but feel like I am over it enough now that it won’t bother me too much when/if he finally does go on a holiday with them. Mostly I’ll be happy for them.

I think the decluttering is a good thing for you...although emotional, I’m sure. You are moving forward towards a new life...with him or without him. I, too, find it interesting he was unclear about whether or not you were divorcing. Honestly, I still have a gut feeling that the two of your aren’t done. Did you read on my thread about my run in with my old basketball coach? Married 36 years, divorced for five and now back together with this wife for two and a half. It does happen but I think you need to really let go before it does. Limbo is not a great place to be and you’ve been there quite awhile now. Oh...and his non-response to your texts that are about the mediation are interesting to me. He isn’t responding to you for a reason. It seems to me that after so long in limbo, if this was REALLY what he wanted, he would be actively giving you all of the information you need and being happy that you are finally taking some steps. But he’s not doing that... why?

Anyway...just wanted to lend you my support and let you know that I am still keeping up with your sitch even though I’ve moved over to Surviving the Big D forum. You and your family are in my thoughts.

[FlySolo]

but also at the beauty of so many posters supporting and believing in you.

The support has been truly remarkable. Here and IRL. Before this happened, like many mums, I had slowly withdrawn from 'social' life. It is just what happens. Friends move away and you get caught up in raising children, building a family life and work. I had people, mums I'd say hello to at the gate, colleagues I'd make small talk to at work, but it was all secondary to 'real life'. I'd attend the organised mums dinners and I'd go to work events (christmas parties, leaving do's) but this was more because I thought I should. I don't say this with any sadness or resentment, just it hit hard when he left and I felt I had no-one. At first I turned to his family (because, back then, his family were my family and mine live on the other side of the world). They rallied around. But over time, out of embarrassment or familial loyalty they pulled back and I was forced to turn to others. I didn't see it that way - opening up to people IRL was GAL and coming on here and sharing my story as a kind of therapy with support. But GAL friendships turned into real friendships and the people I've met here (DV, Dilly, Yail, Alison, AS, Davide etc) as some of the wisest and most supportive people I've ever come across. I have a close circle of real friends and a wide circle of virtual friends who have let me cry on their real/virtual shoulders, given me a kick when I'm being a self pitying dope, taken me out dancing, watched rubbish TV with me and the guys and gals here have offered my hug after hug across the internet whilst giving me advice and the occasional but kicking. I am so grateful to everyone.

I can't imagine what it must feel like to have them on a plane off on a "family" vacation without you and him sending you these nice texts, probably wanting you to feel OK about it and it just feeling so wrong and sad to you (and to me, reading).

Yeah - it s*cks. He has been sending pictures and getting the girls to call me every night. Their holiday looks amazing - they are on a cruise out of Miami and I have to hold back the tears and pretend to be excited when they call. To the photos I respond with "Photos are great. Thanks for sending". Each time we have these cordial exchanges I think about things said and unsaid. I read through Blu's initial post from her first thread, and it talks about her H admitting how guilty and ashamed he felt but he couldn't tell her at the time and I know this is my H. He has to face it, but he won't. He will keep pretending everything is rosy. So I have to pretend everything is rosy.

The ignoring the mediation and any message R, Sep'n or D related, well that's him burying his head in the sand and pretending it's not happening. He doesn't want this. He just can't face what his done or the consequences of what he has done. He is also dragging his heels on any conversation which involved preparing the house for sale under the guise of trying to get stuff that needs doing cheaper. It is annoying as hell because I am on a 'right, let's get this done' state of mind.

Mind reading. But accurate.

Side note: that looks like I'm putting all the blame on him. I am not. I have my own demons. But I acknowledge them, even if I haven't really forgiven myself or dealt with them.

I have so much respect for Yail for how she handled her D

Me too. Yail is a remarkable young woman who put her healing above petty squabbles. Yail and I share a kind of life philosophy: do no harm, take no sh!t . I mostly live by this, but sometimes the balance is. I took a passive stance because the passive stance allowed for a quiet life and didn't hurt me (too much). I wasn't trying to nice him back. I was living my life and letting him live his. Whilst what he asked for didn't infringe on my life, I let him get away with it. Now that we are moving towards resolution and he is asking for more access and putting me in a position where my outgoings will increase by around 30% I am being less passive. The irrational behaviour (on my part) that I am talking about is whilst being more assertive is necessary, I don't want it clouded by resentment, fear and hurt. As so clearly articulated by others in your thread, there is no winning. I am going to lose, he is going to lose, but I want to walk away from this with my values in tact.

Alison - the clear out is not going as well as quickly as I wanted. I am going to hit it hard this weekend before they get back on Monday. Work has been busy and I've been out a lot. What I have managed to do has been incredibly cathartic. I wish I could take a picture of the skip, post it here with a caption like "getting rid of life's baggage". There is so much sh!t in my house. I'm sure there are atleast two drawers of cables where we don't know what they go with !!!!. He is going to be so p!ssed when he gets back.

I've kind of decided to stay put in my home for a few more years, because our house is modest and downsizing makes no financial sense, because it's the kids' home and they have suffered enough loss, and because it suits us practically whilst the kids are finishing their education.

This is H's argument for keeping the house. And he is right. And you are right and I can't afford to stay. And whilst I live in a house that is half his, he will always be physically and energetically present. If my H respected that the house is my home and I was able to afford to stay, then I would absolutely stay.

You are right, I am missing the children. The photos are a killer. We have been on so many cruises as a family and seeing them there, in the sunshine smiling and eating ice cream, well it hurts. Left behind spouse is pretty fitting. Maybe that's why I've accepted so many social invites this week ...

DV - I am so glad you're still here. I still have hope for my H and I too. I keep it buried deep down whilst I carry on with whatever needs to be done, pull myself out of my little pity parties and keep my head up.

Oh, and sorry about the long post. I got carried away and now I've missed my train

[may22]

I read through Blu's initial post from her first thread, and it talks about her H admitting how guilty and ashamed he felt but he couldn't tell her at the time and I know this is my H. He has to face it, but he won't. He will keep pretending everything is rosy. So I have to pretend everything is rosy.

The ignoring the mediation and any message R, Sep'n or D related, well that's him burying his head in the sand and pretending it's not happening. He doesn't want this. He just can't face what his done or the consequences of what he has done. He is also dragging his heels on any conversation which involved preparing the house for sale under the guise of trying to get stuff that needs doing cheaper. It is annoying as hell because I am on a 'right, let's get this done' state of mind.

Wow, this is so difficult for me to read. I think my H would be behaving exactly the same way. I really appreciate your posts on my thread because I do see so many similarities in our Hs. The part about dragging his heels on the house under the guise that it is too expensive? Resonated with me sooooo much... my H would do EXACTLY the same thing. I do think him ignoring the messages about the mediation stuff is really quite telling.

Here's my question to you... (not DB) I still am wondering in your sitch if it hurts to just be honest with him about what you feel. I might be willing to bet that part of his justification for continuing down his path is that you seem fine, you're also acting as if things are rosy, you're the one now pushing the house sale, etc. And now maybe you have two people who are going through the motions and slowly walking towards something neither of them really want. I don't know what the answer is or if it would be a good idea to be open with him about where you are, and how his various responses might affect you. I just wanted to ask the question. What if you didn't answer the mediator's question about what your goal is in all of this so that she had to ask it when you're both together? And you could pipe up and say this isn't what I want? I really wish we could work this out? And then just leave the ball in his court?

There is so much sh!t in my house. I'm sure there are at least two drawers of cables where we don't know what they go with !!!!. He is going to be so p!ssed when he gets back.

This part makes me chuckle an evil laugh. He will so deserve that. Do you think he'll get visibly angry? Or just get mad inside but know he doesn't really have the right to complain?