Riding the Wave 2

[Ready2Change]

Watching Marriage Story was hard for me, and it has been 10 years. It does a good job of showing the typical process. There were many places where either one of them could have made DBing choices.

It has been awhile since I watch this one:

Fireproof Movie....Basically, if you want to see a really good love story, with lots of values and morals in it, and you don't necessarily care how bad the acting is, this is the movie for you!

If you do decide to watch MS, watch fireproof as well. I believe they save the marriage, but it has been a long time.

He asked you to watch it. Then you do it, not because you want to, but because he asked. You can pull the same on him. Watch Fireproof and see if you think he should watch it.

W:"I watched MS because you asked me to. Here is FP, please watch it for me."







As far as BDing, I believe many here are being too passive and ignoring too many things that should be addressed. You did fine. DB says do not initiate the talks. He initiated. He probed.


When this happens, you speak your truth. You listen to understand. You show your hurt. You say what you want from them. You also have guage how receptive the other person is. Are they listening? Can they handle this? Can I handle this? Is this working to help with my goal to save this? Can you listen to how the other persn is feeling? Can you not argue?

It is hard. extremely hard.



HUGS

[may22]

Hi Wayfarer,

sending hugs... you already sound better today and I'm really glad.

On the vulnerability piece... I do think you need to be comfortable with the level of vulnerability you choose (or do not choose) to share with him. If you simply aren't comfortable and force yourself to do it and he does or says something that hurts you, you need to be OK with the fact you shared in the first place because you felt it was the right path for you to take. I have had moments where my H has thrown back in my face things I've shared with him, especially around the SSM, and I've called him out on it and he's apologized. But I think if I'd had a harder time sharing those things with him in the first place I would/could have felt really badly.

For me-- I have been vulnerable, quite a bit, especially in the DC's office. I don't regret it but by nature I am crap at keeping these kinds of things to myself and not sharing them with H. I can be private with acquaintances but have a really hard time not being open with close friends and especially with H. It is part of the reason I've had a hard time when with good friends over these past months because I feel like I'm lying to them every time they ask how I'm doing and I say fine and smile. Because that is my default position, I am OK with being vulnerable and knowing it could bite me later on. I think you just need to be OK with what you share before you make that choice. A lot of times I try to put myself in my future shoes and ask myself what is the worst that would happen if I did this, and how would future me feel about it? Would I regret it or not?

Maybe keep working on your letter so at least you have your thoughts down on paper whether you give it to him or not, or say it to him or not at some point in the future. I packed up his Christmas ornaments in a separate box after Christmas this year and put a note in there for him. It was a weird kind of closure/freeing moment because he's not going to see it for at least a year but I can't take it back either.

When this happens, you speak your truth. You listen to understand. You show your hurt. You say what you want from them. You also have gauge how receptive the other person is. Are they listening? Can they handle this? Can I handle this? Is this working to help with my goal to save this? Can you listen to how the other person is feeling? Can you not argue?

I really like what R2C says here-- all the ways to gauge how far to go in any particular situation.

Hang in there.

[wayfarer]

So the R talks that I thought I wanted I don't know that I want them any more. I want to go back to avoiding each other. How do I do that? Lol. My daughter was giving me trouble this morning. She's been very moody lately. She insists its not what's going on in our house, and she's being a snot with her boyfriend and her bff too, so I think she's just kinda being a not super fun person right now. Every one should have teenage girls they're amazing. I texted H that he may not care but I wanted him to know that my insistence to take the girls to school instead of him today and me being crabby this morning had nothing to do with him. That I wanted to discuss my daughter's issue further. And she was frustrating me. We talked about her for a while. And I told him I appreciate him letting me vent and listening. His response was I'm not the sh**ty person you think I am. I know my wrongs here. And I've apologized and will keep apologizing. No matter what, I'm always going to be here to listen to you and to support you with D17. I just bawled at my desk. It's so much harder when he's human. I sent him a long message. Maybe too long. Basically saying, I never thought you were a terrible person. You're a good person who made terrible choices. I've told you that. And nothing about that has changed.I just don't know how we fit into each other's lives right now, and this is complicated messy territory, that I don't know how to navigate. So I kept you out because that was easier to deal with the hurt. Now us being strangers hurts more. So I don't know. He sent back I'm not sure how to respond to that, but just know I'm always here to listen to you if you need me, especially when it comes to D17.

I don't know why this convo has me so broken up. It wasn't about any new information or particularly devastating info. Maybe because of my fear about him and my D losing their relationship. H is her dad for all intents and purposes. Her bio dad's parents and the money the state sends me from his paychecks are really her only connection to that other guy. Maybe because it makes me miss him or my old life more. Maybe because I feel like all these R talks are because we both know he's going in April for sure and because we're functioning on his accelerated I got run from my misery time line it's all getting piled on, quickly after a month of silence. I have no idea really, but I can't get myself together like at all. Why does him being nice and supportive affect me so much??

[wayfarer]

I think you just need to be OK with what you share before you make that choice. A lot of times I try to put myself in my future shoes and ask myself what is the worst that would happen if I did this, and how would future me feel about it? Would I regret it or not?

Maybe keep working on your letter so at least you have your thoughts down on paper whether you give it to him or not, or say it to him or not at some point in the future. I packed up his Christmas ornaments in a separate box after Christmas this year and put a note in there for him. It was a weird kind of closure/freeing moment because he's not going to see it for at least a year but I can't take it back either.

I think all of this is something in need to keep in my pocket as far as letting my walls down. I've been editing the letter a little every day. I'd like to get to where I'm not flat out saying you're depressed and in a crisis, get help, because moving out and OW will never fill all the holes the misery you're in has created. I won't wait forever for you to figure this out, and you're going to end up dying alone if you don't. I'm gonna hazard a guess he wouldn't be that receptive to that. I need to make it more about me and how I feel and what I think, without anger and saying things I know he has to figure out on his own.

Reading the Christmas thing broke my heart. It's so beautiful, and so sad at the same time. I could see how that would give you some closure.

When this happens, you speak your truth. You listen to understand. You show your hurt. You say what you want from them. You also have gauge how receptive the other person is. Are they listening? Can they handle this? Can I handle this? Is this working to help with my goal to save this? Can you listen to how the other person is feeling? Can you not argue?

I can only answer one question with certainty about that last mini R convo. And I'm pretty sure the answer is no I can't handle it. Lol. But these are things I'm going to have to keep in mind. I really appreciate the advice. And I'm gonna by a huge box of kleenex and suck it up and watch Marriage Story.

[cardinal]

I don't know why this convo has me so broken up. It wasn't about any new information or particularly devastating info. Maybe because of my fear about him and my D losing their relationship. H is her dad for all intents and purposes. Her bio dad's parents and the money the state sends me from his paychecks are really her only connection to that other guy. Maybe because it makes me miss him or my old life more. Maybe because I feel like all these R talks are because we both know he's going in April for sure and because we're functioning on his accelerated I got run from my misery time line it's all getting piled on, quickly after a month of silence. I have no idea really, but I can't get myself together like at all. Why does him being nice and supportive affect me so much??

I'm not feeling wise at all lately, wayfarer, not like I have any insight to offer, but I empathize. These reasons you offer all make sense to me. I think it's even harder to process when we are surprised by our feelings surfacing. Not new info, not devastating info, but it seems like you did open yourself up here a little bit, in honestly saying you don't know how to navigate this situation. You were vulnerable, and he responded with, "I don't know how to respond to that." That's probably honest too, but not satisfying. It feels like another instance of being not quite strangers to me. A nice, supportive way of saying I'm here for you but not in the way I was before. Also "I don't know how to respond to that" = I don't have those kind of complicated feelings, but...

Not to say that is all what he's thinking or what he means, not trying to mindread, just reflecting on my own now, I guess, why some conversations affect me when I feel like they shouldn't. Crying-at-work days are the worst. (((wayfarer)))

Also, all of you who can watch Marriage Story, I salute you! I sobbed while watching the finale of The Good Place this week. Thought I'd be able to get through it.

[may22]

I think all of this is something in need to keep in my pocket as far as letting my walls down. I've been editing the letter a little every day. I'd like to get to where I'm not flat out saying you're depressed and in a crisis, get help, because moving out and OW will never fill all the holes the misery you're in has created. I won't wait forever for you to figure this out, and you're going to end up dying alone if you don't. I'm gonna hazard a guess he wouldn't be that receptive to that. I need to make it more about me and how I feel and what I think, without anger and saying things I know he has to figure out on his own.

Here's a suggestion. Put the letter aside and start a new one-- this one focused 100% on YOU. Where you are, how you feel, your fears for yourself and your girls, your wishes and dreams for yourself and your girls (that might include him, or might not). I wouldn't censor yourself from a DB perspective on this (because you aren't going to give it to him), so just say what you feel. Not what you think about what he's doing and your fears for him. Sit with yourself.

My guess? That might be both helpful for you-- to get it down on paper-- and a better to start with what you might say to him, because I agree with your guess that the dying alone part won't really fly so well And yes, given your reaction to the conversation today, you probably aren't ready to have that conversation with him yet. But the more comfortable you are with understanding where YOU are right now and what your own fears are, the more comfortable you will be in expressing them, or not, to him eventually.

My only other concrete piece of advice... which you can absolutely take or leave... I stopped texting anything meaningful. We used to fight on text which was really stupid. Now I leave texts to business or fun with H and if I have anything important to say I call him or wait to talk in person. I just don't want the evidence of me having said it there on his text thread, plus who knows how he interprets it. Just a thought. And, you can't really interpret his responses either without the context of his voice/presence/whatever. He could have meant it along the lines of what cardinal suggests, or he could have meant holy crap I'm just so overwhelmed with feelings myself I just don't know how to respond. The only thing I know to be true right now is that I want you to know I will always, always be there for you and for D17. You know his head is a mess and he knows that at some level too. I just feel like communication is hard enough without adding in the built-in potential misunderstandings of texting.

You're so strong. You got this. Deep breath, wash your face, give yourself some slack and do something special for yourself, and get back in there.

[wayfarer]

I’m getting more and more lost in H’s half in half out behavior and feeling just genuinely terrible at this. He waited up for me again Friday night. Long convos about kids, my night out, his night in and mutual friends Saturday. He spent the night away Saturday. I’m guessing with OW. But came home and had candy for all of us(?) by like noon. Was stoked about the dinner I was planning and dessert I had already made. Then tells me oh you’ll have to teach me that when I leave. I really am going to miss your cooking. To which I said well my food stays with me but we’ll see about me teaching you a few things, in a flirty way. Then he said made some flirty comment about how he knows how he knows how to get what he wants from me and really wants the recipe. Dinner and family time. More joking. Then winding down for the night we’re in separate “beds.” I’m here feeling confused. I’m sure he’s texting OW. The closer he gets to who he used to be. The more he leans back into the family even if it isn’t necessarily leaning back into me the harder it is to shrug him off. I know I’m my gut he’s going to move out. He’s convinced he’s going to go. Honestly it’s probably best for both of us if he does. I could really use a little break from the push pull. I don’t know if both of us accepting him going is relieving some of the pressure and we’re just finally relaxing around each other. I don’t know if he feels because I’m so zen about whatever that he thinks we’re bffs or friends who used to have benefits. I’m trying not to overthink and try to figure this out but this is getting harder and harder the more things are like they used to be. As heartbroken and lost as I felt when he was cruel and standoffish this is a totally different lost feeling. I don’t feel like I’m drowning any more. I feel relieved at he idea of him going but I still feel the pull so strongly when he smiles and looks at me the way he used to. Even if it’s just for a minute. I wish I knew how to just stop loving him. I feel like if I would’ve just let my anger have me it would be so much easier getting through this. If I didn’t want to hold on to him or the marriage all of this would be so much more simple. Sigh.

[may22]

(((wayfarer)))

what's your line? When will you stop being friends with him-- when he moves out? That's been my line too, and I know my H doesn't believe me that I'll really stop being his friend if he leaves. (Maybe he does a little, but that is what he is saying to me.)

Do you still feel like he's a little off-- a photocopy of a photocopy?

I feel that the nice H is harder than the d*ck H was, for sure, for all the reasons you say above. I've been doing it for awhile now. It s*cks. It is easier to have the anger to hold onto and the a**hole behaviors to remind yourself that you are better off without him anyway.

All I can say is... stay strong. As you've said to me, you'll know when enough is enough and you're ready to take that next (maybe necessary) step of him walking. And remember he is likely really confused too, his leaning into the family could be relief that you seem cool with the current situation *or* could be because he is truly missing the family and wants to spend time together. All a big mind f**k and not really worth going down the rabbit hole.

What can you do for YOU during this time?

[wooba]

Funny my H would say similar things about him not being here in the future. He would be cooking and telling the boys that they need to learn xyz so they know how to do it when he’s not around. He’s said stuff like that several times, as if he is either 1. going to be dead or 2. be outta our lives for good.

You might be confused about his behavior, but it sounds like he is even more confused about it himself. That’s what I think about my H too. I keep wanting to help him wipe his fogged up lenses for him, so that maybe he has chance of coming out of this....but I think I can’t, I think we LBS can’t, because only they can get out of the quicksand themselves.

I’ve written a few letters in the beginning thinking that I’d want to show H. Some were about me, some were about him. I’m glad I never did. Because with time my mentality has changed and I’m still seeing things differently or more clearly. And with time I also feel more strongly that he would not be receptive to anything from me. Not that he would be offended or anything, I think things would just get lost somewhere and my good intentions would not make it to his brain.

[Pommy99]

I know I’m my gut he’s going to move out. He’s convinced he’s going to go. Honestly it’s probably best for both of us if he does. I could really use a little break from the push pull. I don’t know if both of us accepting him going is relieving some of the pressure and we’re just finally relaxing around each other. I don’t know if he feels because I’m so zen about whatever that he thinks we’re bffs or friends who used to have benefits. I’m trying not to overthink and try to figure this out but this is getting harder and harder the more things are like they used to be. As heartbroken and lost as I felt when he was cruel and standoffish this is a totally different lost feeling. I don’t feel like I’m drowning any more. I feel relieved at he idea of him going but I still feel the pull so strongly when he smiles and looks at me the way he used to. Even if it’s just for a minute. I wish I knew how to just stop loving him.

i feel exactly this. I feel like H needs to leave in order to break the limbo cycle that we have been entrenched in for so long . I have envisioned myself in a little house, without him, and it feels calm. However, like you , I am so drawn in by him and feel like I am under a spell. I want so much not to love him. And sometimes I don’t know if I do, or whether it’s habit, or fear.

Your H sounds confused, as Wooba says. I’m not a believer in always listening to your gut. The cycle of thoughts driving feelings, feelings driving behviours, behaviours driving thoughts - you can change the cycle. Why do you think he will definitely leave? Is he making plans, is he looking for somewhere? And if he does, it might give you room to breathe clean air. I’m telling myself that if it happens to me, it is not a bad thing for me or H. Keep strong as you are doing great !