Stranger In My House Part 2

[HesAble]

As far as I know they are like addicts. They gotta hit bottom before they can start to climb up. So I’m sorry but it’s likely going to get worse before it gets better. I strangely just posted about my H disappearing. He won’t go days. And he still calls here home even though he’s on a date night with OW right now. Just Incase you’re wondering he’s coming home tonight. Yeah that’s my life, loll. 2 months ago when I brought up how what he’s doing is going to devastate our kids he basically told me to F off and that was manipulative, blah, blah, blah. 5 weeks ago I tried to set some boundaries. Only a few rules. She isn’t allowed around either kid his or mine as long as he’s under this roof, she’s never allowed in my home and if I find out she’s ever here I’ll gladly go to jail over that, she isn’t part of family time, you commit to family time she gets muted for those few hours, don’t embarrass me or the kids in public, and please tell me where you’re disappearing to even if it’s with her because I can’t keep telling a 15 and 17 yo that I don’t know where you are. He won’t dare bring her here. He knows well enough to not bring her around the kids. He’s actually been good with muting her during family time for the most part. The last two however. Not so much. Until 4 days ago. Saturday he inexplicably started telling me where he’s going, with who and if he’d planned on coming home. Every day since then he has. I don’t say this to brag. I say this I say emotionally prep for a fight but don’t go in like a heavyweight. Stay calm and neutral. Lay out simply what you need to keep that house running with some semblance of sanity and order. He will either do it or he won’t. But it’s out there. I’m learning the WS is a lot like a teenager. They hear what you’re saying but they won’t listen until they are ready to. Honestly leave him a note if you must or shoot a text laying it out. Maybe something about committing to time with the littles certain days and hours. And giving you a heads up if he IS coming since the norm is now to just not be there. And what ever else you need for sanity and order. No guilt tripping. No whining or nagging. Just this is what I need. You may need to review the boundary post and turn the list into if you don’t I will things. You seem to be hitting a wall here and maybe a baby line in the sand vs. immediately going to to hell with it let’s go straight to D is what you need to feel like you have a tiny bit of control here.

I definitely need to work on establishing more boundaries. I have some in my head already but have not communicated them to H.

My WS is absolutely like a teenager. I keep communication with him to a bare minimum because I know he is not at all tuned in to what I am saying half the time. I have not mentioned the M or relationship issues in over 7 weeks so mentioning boundaries will be a little awkward.

[HesAble]

Need more advice: a very close friend suggested that I mention briefly to H that the children are very aware that he is not coming home many nights. My inclination is no, I should not mention this because last time I mentioned the kids, H claimed I was trying to manipulate him by mentioning how D would affect our kids. Surely these wayward spouses realize that their bad behavior impacts their kids. I assume H just does not care - the same as he does not care about my feelings.

Don't mention it. It's not your job to make him a better parent or husband or person. There was a movie that I can't remember the name of where the group of people was being terrorized by a killer. He walked up to one of them and was yelling and screaming, and the person did nothing. Absolutely nothing. No reaction at all. The killer looked confused, and finally walked off. One of the other victims asked what happened, and he said "I made myself invisible". THIS is what EVERY LBS should strive for. Make yourself invisible to your spouse. They want a target for all their hatred and anger and frustration and the LBS is the perfect target. You've got to remove yourself from the equation. Leave him alone, work on yourself, focus solely on you and the kids. Don't talk to him or interact with him except as required to coordinate the kids' needs. If he can't use you as a scapegoat, he'll eventually have no choice but to face his own internal demons that are REALLY causing this.

By the way, you and every other LBS here saying your WAS "does not care" are DEAD WRONG. He cares a lot. He's going through tremendous emotional turmoil right now. There's a battle going on inside him between the old him- faithful husband and father, and this weird alien version of him that is trying to take over. He hates himself, he is racked with guilt, he second-guesses what he is doing constantly. But WAS's are masters of hiding all that and "acting as if" this is what they want. The worst thing you can do is assume he doesn't care because then you have zero empathy for what he is going through.

I am working on being invisible but co-parenting and living under the same roof makes it so difficult. I will take your advice about letting him deal with any issues that develop concerning his relationship with the kids.

Wow, it is just so hard to believe H cares. It is like an alien invaded his body and took away his ability to care about me in particular. It is hard to understand how someone can care about someone's feelings and just act out, staying out all night without a simple text, walking around the house angry and/or withdrawn, etc. I am trying to have empathy but when someone causes you this much pain and shows absolutely no remorse, it is difficult to feel much other than anger, frustration and disgust with them. I am sure he is fighting some inner turmoil, but it is hard to see that when he is acting like a narcissistic college frat boy living in my basement.

[wayfarer]

Wow, it is just so hard to believe H cares. It is like an alien invaded his body and took away his ability to care about me in particular. It is hard to understand how someone can care about someone's feelings and just act out, staying out all night without a simple text, walking around the house angry and/or withdrawn, etc. I am trying to have empathy but when someone causes you this much pain and shows absolutely no remorse, it is difficult to feel much other than anger, frustration and disgust with them. I am sure he is fighting some inner turmoil, but it is hard to see that when he is acting like a narcissistic college frat boy living in my basement.

This. Omg this. I felt this. I only know H cares because date last night with OW means he’s home tonight watching a movie and folding laundry with me. But the weekend usually brings about the frat boy. Ah the frat boy.

[HesAble]

Need more advice: a very close friend suggested that I mention briefly to H that the children are very aware that he is not coming home many nights. My inclination is no, I should not mention this because last time I mentioned the kids, H claimed I was trying to manipulate him by mentioning how D would affect our kids. Surely these wayward spouses realize that their bad behavior impacts their kids. I assume H just does not care - the same as he does not care about my feelings.

...
Some vets recommend not saying anything until any decision is made because kids need certainty. But for my own sitch I felt my oldest was already uncertain about what’s happening and it would not be right to keep pretending everything is ok when clearly he knows it’s not. I can see my S10 is going through some huge emotions lately now that he knows, but he wouldn’t talk to me about what’s on his mind. My other two are younger so they seem ok so far.

This is the hardest part. Good luck.

This makes sense - not saying anything to the kids until the decision is certain. I will try to hold out until then. I think H should have to explain to them since this is his idea. He will probably be a coward about it just as he has been about all of this. BD was by text. He has a hard time telling people things like this in person. You can't tell kids this by text. That is for sure.

[HesAble]

I'm a little behind, so what I say may have already been suggested. If you don't want to be gone all weekend GAL, you don't have to, okay? You can bring friends to your place and have a ball. Just don't use that to make your H feel that he must be there, also. Whenever you plan to have friends over........do it with zero expectations in him, b/c this GAL activity is not about him. You can engage in whatever you enjoy. Plan something with the kids, but do it without him, b/c he will see it as pressure.

Need more advice: a very close friend suggested that I mention briefly to H that the children are very aware that he is not coming home many nights. My inclination is no, I should not mention this because last time I mentioned the kids, H claimed I was trying to manipulate him by mentioning how D would affect our kids. Surely these wayward spouses realize that their bad behavior impacts their kids. I assume H just does not care - the same as he does not care about my feelings.

I agree with your inclination. He will see this as you using "guilt" to keep him home. It doesn't work.

Do wayward spouses realize their bad behavior impacts their kids? On some level, I think they do........however, it depends on a few things, IMHO.

First of all, I think it depends on his status in this rebellious journey. In other words, during the initial part, and especially, during the height of his rebellion, it is not likely he will respond in a way that shows he is really concerned how his behavior is affecting his children. Partly b/c he sees the kids being tied/connected to that life he wants to escape. He still loves his kids, but currently, he's too self-absorbed, spoiled, and too addicted to the emotional drug he gets from his wayward activities (other women, one night stands, an affair, or whatever inappropriate behavior he chooses). He doesn't want to play the daddy role when it is inconvenient for him (which is most of the time while he is wayward) when he's got all this other going for him. It is amazing just how out of touch the wayward becomes with his fatherly responsibilities when he is emotionally submerged in these wayward activities. He may help provide food & shelter, but he has you there to take good care of his children's emotional needs while he chooses not to show up. The more his guilt button is pressed, the more resentful and rebellious he becomes. Something else may turn him around to see what he is doing to his kids, but it will come through some source other than his W pointing it out to him. And let's be clear......repentance and reformation may follow guilty feelings........but not always. Do you really want a spouse to stay with you just out of guilty feelings?

Second, IMHO, is the individual's depth of moral/spiritual character. Although he may currently be off in the twilight zone and showing anything other than moral character........did he have it instilled as a young person? Was there a pattern or guide set for him, so to speak. I'm not an authority on the subject, by any stretch of the imagination, but we tend to believe people develop their moral character as they grow from child into adulthood. Personally, (and this may be b/c of my spiritual beliefs), I think people can change for the better if they are taught & motivated. They can develop a higher moral standard for themselves, and I wonder if you set the bar a little higher than he was use to reaching......and maybe he was motivated to change b/c he wanted to M you. I don't how deep or shallow the man's morals run. All we can see in him is his bad behavior, and it appears he has lost his moral compass.

As long as he is getting some type of emotional return from his wayward activity, it will be very difficult for him to sukk it up and turn back---if he doesn't have the moral/spiritual structure that beckons him to do the right thing by his wife & kids. Therefore, the people who try to make him feel guilty about his behavior, will be avoided the most by him....especially his W.

Thirdly, and this is very closely related to the second point, is determined, IMHO, by what he experienced growing up.......especially, those in roles of authority in his daily environment, and what was expected/required from him. While growing up at home, if he was not held accountable whenever he chose to ignore anything he didn't want to do.......he is more "at risk". In other words, if he was not taught to respect boundaries or suffer consequences......then why wouldn't he be lazy, spoiled, disrespectful, unreliable, untrustworthy, inconsiderate .........and a host of other undesirable traits? These could be overcome, if he wanted to improve himself.....but I think a person has got to have a lot of self discipline.....or religion. The sad thing is the lack of self discipline is usually high on their list of undesired traits, when it was not required in their youth. This is why many couples have trouble after a few years of M, b/c one of them were spoiled rotten during their youth, and was never made to do anything they didn't want to do.

I think one of your problems in cooping, is due to you comparing him to your own moral character.......or to the character you mistakenly took him to have. I think a lot of M couples do it, and it's gut wrenching for them to see this wayward spouse who has chunked everything that should be the most important. Even wayward spouses who had excellent moral teachers while developing into adults, can reach an emotional crisis point at some time in their lives, and just mess up their lives and the lives of their family........all in the name of finding "happiness" for themselves.

Well, I'll stop here with my thoughts. Continue to be true to yourself and don't settle for less. ((hugs))

Your thoughts are always so insightful. They give me a perspective I had not considered. Thank you for that. I definitely am using my own moral character when thinking how he could be able to do all this without guilt or remorse. He has no moral compass at all, it seems. This is why it is hard for me to understand when people tell me that a WS actually does care but is in so much emotional pain that he/she just spirals out of control. I do not quite understand all that happened to H in his childhood but I do know that he is exhibiting some of the same behaviors of his father based on accounts other family members have given me (particularly the withdrawing and giving me the silent treatment, giving news of big decisions in writing instead of face to face, desiring a D). I do not think the dad stayed out all night but there could very well be information I am just not privy to.

Although H at one point attended church regularly, I do not think he has any type of relationship with God (or any "religion" now). For one, he no longer is interested in even attending church and makes excuses each time I have invited him to attend church with me and the kids (I was inviting him before I came here and realized I should not necessarily be inviting him anywhere). Being a pretty spiritual person myself, this really worries me and I pray it will change.

I hope and pray that he is at the height of his rebellion because, otherwise, he is going to drive me absolutely bananas. However, we are only a few months in so there may be more to come. I am bracing myself for worse and praying for the best. If it gets too much worse, we may need to live separately (not under the same roof in different rooms). I feel like I am already being subjected to mental cruelty and emotional abuse and I am not sure how much more pain I can take. I am praying for strength to endure this journey.

[HesAble]

Yesterday I was bawling my eyeballs out and today - thank goodness - I have sobered to the fact that my marriage is dead. Only God can resuscitate it at this point, as far as I am concerned. But I have come to grips that H is a new person. I think he is making many mistakes but he will have to see that for himself and who knows if he will ever open his eyes to see. He is in such a dangerous fog. He is spiraling out of control so that I don't even think it is a good idea for me and the children to be around him much.

I looked at him today and for a quick moment I did feel empathy and even pity as I did in the first few weeks post-BD. Additionally though, when I looked in his eyes, I saw a scared stranger that was not familiar to me. H has changed so much in such a short period of time.

I hope I continue in this sober mood and do not go back to the feeling of desperation and bawling my eyes out. H was never really all that great a husband if I am honest and, for the past half of our M, was not a good husband a lot of the time (infidelity, drinking problems, financial irresponsibility, not much help with kids, no help around the house, etc.). I think what I am really mourning is the fact that my family will no longer be in tact.
My children will live in dysfunction and never experience the things I have through my own family.

I, of course, will do all I can to stand for the M and for my family but I cannot stand alone and if my H is as miserable as he seems being with me, I don't want to hold him. I am letting go and letting God. I said I had let go a few weeks ago, but I don't think I had let go to the degree I am ready to now.

This is my second round of DBing (H's infidelity and giving up on our marriage years ago led me to DB and it worked). I am exhausted being the only one standing. At some point, dont I also deserve some of the "happiness" H is pursuing? I am sick of being the only mature, responsible person in my home. I have said that even pre-BD.

This M has definitely not brought much happiness; in fact, it has brought me some of the biggest periods of disappointment, betrayal and depression that I have experienced in my entire life. No one has ever hurt me the way H has more than once. Perhaps H is right and there is "happiness" out there with someone else. I personally believe happiness comes from within but perhaps having a supportive loving partner would definitely help in that area. A friend was telling me some success stories of a couple of her friends who divorced but went on to find love. There is hope for me.

[sandi2]

I have come to grips that H is a new person. I think he is making many mistakes but he will have to see that for himself and who knows if he will ever open his eyes to see. He is in such a dangerous fog. He is spiraling out of control so that I don't even think it is a good idea for me and the children to be around him much.

The point of detaching is to step back from the drama the wayward spouse is causing in his life......and consequently, in your life. This technique is to mentally protect yourself. The children need one of their parents to maintain a sense of calmness in the center of the storm, and you can't do it while getting caught up in the WS drama. From this point forward, I hope you can draw an invisible fortress around yourself, and the stuff WS does, you refuse to allow it to penetrate that fortress. You watch him from afar (emotionally/mentally), but as of today, you refuse to get carried out in the storm of his wayward behavior. Think of him as an entity, and you are not going to attach yourself....... b/c it will destroy you. God will hold you up and you'll survive the storm, if you will continue to let go and put the WS issues into the capable hands of God.

I looked at him today and for a quick moment I did feel empathy and even pity as I did in the first few weeks post-BD. Additionally though, when I looked in his eyes, I saw a scared stranger that was not familiar to me. H has changed so much in such a short period of time.

You can have empathy for what he experienced in his past, just as long as you know the difference between an excuse and an explanation. Perhaps his past explains the current behavior........but it does not excuse the current behavior. I learned a technique many years ago, that has served me well, whenever I was letting someone else's behavior affect my own personal life, to the point of consuming me. I'll attempt to give a short explanation of what I mean.

As you know, there are different categories of personal love. Love for God is in a separate category all by its self. He is #1. Love for your spouse is in a category that does not include anyone else, b/c this is romantic, sexual love. In other words, you don't (or shouldn't) love anyone else with the same type of personal love that feel for your spouse. Then there is a category that includes our children & closest family members. The category that includes many members is the one that is seen as less "personal". Friends, church members, relatives, neighbors, acquaintances, co-workers, etc. Okay, so the point here is that whenever your spouse (which in the 2nd most personal love category) is making an emotional wreck out of you b/c of all the drama surrounding him, you mentally put him in the category of less personal love. In other words, your attention & compassion for him is no more/less than if he was in that last category I mentioned. It provides a way to help you step back and emotionally detach, so that it does not take such a big chunk out of your soul. You can't control him, but you can mentally protect yourself by following this technique. The good thing is it helps you see and think more clearly, and you don't have to stop loving him completely.........it's just not to the emotional degree or intensity that passionate love takes on you. Another plus is you don't have to permanently keep in the less personal love category. If he gets his act together, you can instantly put him back into category #2. In the meantime, you mentally see him in the same light you might see someone afar......who is scr@wing up the lives of his family. We women tend to get too emotionally invested in the personal problems of our friends, much less our own family. IMHO, this technique works well to help us step back when their personal problems interfere with our mental/emotional health.

I hope I continue in this sober mood and do not go back to the feeling of desperation and bawling my eyes out. H was never really all that great a husband if I am honest and, for the past half of our M, was not a good husband a lot of the time (infidelity, drinking problems, financial irresponsibility, not much help with kids, no help around the house, etc.). I think what I am really mourning is the fact that my family will no longer be in tact.
My children will live in dysfunction and never experience the things I have through my own family.

((Hesable), may I gently suggest that when considering the negative issues tied to their father, the children has already lived in dysfunction. Perhaps you see divorce throwing your children into dysfunction. I think I understand you mourning the loss of this family unit that included both biological parents under the same roof. I think I understand the grief that your children may never have the same experience as you had with your biological parents in the home. However, I have known too many 2nd marriages that gave the children the love, security and structure in the home, that was not there in the 1st marriage & home life for the kids. I'm not trying to diminish what you feel, or what you are saying. My thoughts are that YOU may have camouflaged the previous/current dysfunction caused by your WH, in order to keep the family until together. There's nothing wrong in wanting your children to have the same good experiences as you had with your parents. Would your WH need to make a 180, in order for the kids to share the same childhood experiences as you? Can you force him to make those 180's?

I am exhausted being the only one standing. At some point, dont I also deserve some of the "happiness" H is pursuing? I am sick of being the only mature, responsible person in my home. I have said that even pre-BD.

You deserve to have a grown man for a husband. You deserve to have a man who is as invested in the marriage/family/home life as you. When I was younger, I wanted to be happy. These days, I just want to have peace. You can't have the first until you have the second.........and the second will bring the first.

[HesAble]

Sandi2, thanks for reminding me that it is not a divorce that will bring the dysfunction because the Midlife Crisis Monster has already brought dysfunction to our home. Also thanks for reminding me that sometimes a second marriage can provide the stability I want for my children. All hope is not lost. You always have such profound thoughts to share.

[HesAble]

Was just sitting here thinking I would literally have to hate someone to put them through the passive aggressive h3ll H is putting me through. I think I am also getting to the point where I am also rewriting history and starting to forget what I ever liked about H. All his meanness is overshadowing any goodness I ever knew. I feel so hopeless. I am trying to muster up some hope because that is what has allowed me to stand for my M this far.

[cardinal]

Hi, HesAble. I'm sorry you're feeling hopeless right now.

I think I am also getting to the point where I am also rewriting history and starting to forget what I ever liked about H.

That is so hard for me too, when I feel I'm not in the rose-colored glasses place, not in the seeing things more clearly place, but have somehow gone way past that into the... mud-colored glasses place. Where everything seems so, so negative. It's like I've borrowed his glasses, and the prescription is all wrong! Do you have a sense of where you are on that spectrum? I think it sometimes helps for me to reframe it as a separate battle I'm fighting—I will NOT let H's current actions rewrite history as I know it. That helps me begin to find a little hope when I feel like I've lost it and need to right myself a bit.