(Actually I said 'yeah, you really f***ed up' and he got super angry because he said he was being vulnerable and I shut him down. He calmed down eventually and kept talking.) Do I need to keep validating in this situation?
HA!! Sorry I totally laughed at what you said to him. "good question" is very different from "yeah you f***ed up" lol!!!
I've have similar responses in my head many times that I knew would send my H through the roof. I think those thoughts stem from resentment, and nothing good usually comes out of it. I would suggest that you keep validating. If anything just listen. When my H apologized to me for blowing up in front of the kids, I said nothing. Afterwards I thought about it and I felt like I should have at least given him a "thank you for apologizing." But at that moment all I could do was to hold back all the negative things I wanted to say to him. I knew it was extremely difficult for him to look at what he did and apologize for it.
I know. I apologized and said what I meant (this is true) is that his actions and behaviors over the past two years are probably really far away from the kind of person he imagines himself to be, and that has to be difficult. i just said it with a little more color and less understanding because I'm angry. He accepted that and kept talking and I did a better job of listening and validating after that.
I have to say I am so so so tempted to just blow it up and be a b*tch and push him out. I *am* resentful and p!ssed off and I have these urges to let him know it and feel it. I just don't want that to be his excuse.
And then we talk and I get less angry and more empathetic towards him. I think I need to stop talking with him. I don't want to feel like that. He totally doesn't deserve it. i think on an earlier post you recommended treat him like a roommate-- I think I will start that tonight.
Last edited by job; 01/09/2010:38 PM. Reason: edited language
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I am clearly no expert, and all advice is much easier said than done, and all those grains of salt
All that said, I feel strongly in your situation that you should ask your H to move out. The main reason being that it really sounds like he would benefit from feeling the loss of what he has. I say this because he expresses so much fear around losing his family and time with the kids. My gut tells me that the sooner he does, the sooner he may snap out of his BS. I don’t think you need to do it in a b*tchy way. Given that he is refusing so far, I’m not sure what that would look like. But it feels important. All that said, I realize how much easier said than done that is. It’s a scary step to take. I sense a strength in you when I read your posts here and on my thread, and I find it inspiring and comforting. You’ve got this!
Yes my h took the kids . He did not stay at my place . To answer your question .
I also think this helped a bit because he got a taste of being alone and having to leave them as well .
Mine stich was different though he moved out in a fit of rage and just ran himself into the ground .
Try to limit your contact with him . I would tell him to move the belongings out of the bedroom . He’s worried what the kids will think ? Does he think they have not noticed what is going on .... kids notice more than people realize. I swear one of mine is already smarter then me. Months later my kids don’t really even bring up he moved out . If they do I just say yes he did and he’s home now .
GAL GAL and more GAL . Do not let his emotions run you . He’s all over the place .
I’m going to just give my opinion on him saying he doesn’t want to hurt the kids or for him to stay for them . I saw someone posted a quote about it . I think it’s used as a crutch so they don’t have to make a decision. My H said a few times when he left he had only stayed for years for the kids . BULL! Number one reason he came home was not for the kids but he was scared of loosing me .
All that said, I feel strongly in your situation that you should ask your H to move out. The main reason being that it really sounds like he would benefit from feeling the loss of what he has. I say this because he expresses so much fear around losing his family and time with the kids. My gut tells me that the sooner he does, the sooner he may snap out of his BS. I don’t think you need to do it in a b*tchy way. Given that he is refusing so far, I’m not sure what that would look like. But it feels important.
Hi Hope, I'm sure you are right. And even if he doesn't snap out of it, I think it will help me to heal more quickly. I just don't know how to actually make it happen. Nothing can really happen for a couple of weeks while his parents are here... at this point I'm thinking the basement is the best first step because I think he'll actually do it-- I'm sensitive to AS's comments about not setting conditions I can't enforce.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I’m going to just give my opinion on him saying he doesn’t want to hurt the kids or for him to stay for them . I saw someone posted a quote about it . I think it’s used as a crutch so they don’t have to make a decision. My H said a few times when he left he had only stayed for years for the kids . BULL! Number one reason he came home was not for the kids but he was scared of loosing me.
Hi CG,
I don't know. I really believe that the kids and the house/finances etc are the main thing that is keeping him back. I really don't think it is me. This is something I'm coming to terms with-- our M is over, he doesn't love me (like that) any more. He adamantly believes feelings can't change and there is no point in arguing about it.
Last night we talked a lot again. He said things like how deeply in love with the AP he is, he will never stop loving her, he sees now all the things I starved him of in our M, this experience has been life-affirming for him. That some of the things I'd held back from him by being sexually repressed all these years were betrayals, too (the things I had shared more recently) and he's angry that I kept those from him, I've been lying to him for 16 years. That I didn't care, I didn't really love him, I starved him physically and emotionally and it didn't matter to me, I controlled all aspects of our lives, I was perfectly happy and just didn't really give a $hit about him.
He doesn't believe anything would change in our MR. If we tried, we'd just be miserable for another year or two and then get Dd and both be single and miserable with Tinder accounts. He understands that he is asking to have his cake and eat it to (her as lover, me as friend) and maybe he just doesn't deserve that, but sees no other path to happiness for himself. He doesn't think he has the b*lls to leave and so he'll just stay and eat $hit the rest of his life like everyone else.
He's angry and confused and thinks my boundaries are controlling-- his only choices are to do exactly what I want (give up the AP) or I'll make his life hEll (by not agreeing to his fantasy D of being friends, shared meals, traveling together, etc). He doesn't even know how to do what I'm asking-- am I trying to control what he thinks? (I will note here that I am not asking him to do this. I have said I was unable to work together on our R, regardless of where it took us, with a third party in the picture. He is free to leave, and in fact I thought he should. But, I did a much better job of listening and validating this time at least.) Blah blah blah... I don't know why I'm even writing this down since you guys have heard the same old $hit over and over, but I guess it helps me to keep a record especially when my tendency is to focus on the positive.
He saw the book I bought on D, asked if I'd talked to an L, I said I hadn't but I probably would so that I knew my rights. He blew up and said paying Ls was stealing from our children.
He told his mom, not everything, but enough-- the existence of OW and I'm going to guess his feelings for her. He wasn't explicit on the level of engagement with her but he said he thinks his mom assumes that. She doesn't know the length of time. She told him she'd guessed something was going on given all the weight I'd lost and the way we were interacting (not very much).
I have to admit, a big part of me had been hoping she would knock some sense into him and that didn't happen, though it was probably really helpful for him to be able to get this off his chest to someone who loves him unconditionally and knows him extremely well. I felt disappointed that she didn't tell him to knock it off and then disappointed in myself for having that unspoken hope. She's not telling his dad as she doesn't think it is necessary at this point. (Also, is it so stupid that the fact his IC told me not to tell any friends yet and his mom is not telling his dad is making me hold onto hope that this can still all end without the next big steps? i know I shouldn't. I'm trying not to.)
The upside is that now I can take the weekend off. I think time apart is going to be really important and I am aiming at spending that time on my own, really thinking about all of this, focusing on me and what I need to move forward without him.
Later, I cracked open the D book and then just lost it. For the first time in a while I felt so sad about the loss of the MR, the loss of our shared dreams for the future, the fracturing of the trust and belief I had in him for all these years, added onto the fear of hurting the children and fear of the unknown which have been my primary drivers. It was pretty bad, ugly crying, I vomited. He came out, I think he was crying too or had been. I broke all the DB rules, said how I felt, that it hurt so badly that he didn't care, that it killed me that the story he is taking from all this-- what he's telling himself in order to justify everything-- is that I didn't love him. He said he did care, more than I knew. We talked more, then (I know, I was very weak and vulnerable) we went into the MB and had sex.
After we lay together for awhile and talked. He said he didn't feel badly or guilty as he had in those middle of the night interludes, but he was deeply confused. He said "what are we doing now" (I think about where he should sleep) and I said "going to bed" and directed him back to the office, which he did. We then ended up texting each other back and forth for awhile about fun/silly things till I fell asleep.
I know, I shouldn't have done it. Went backwards. I'm really hoping the space this weekend can give me more clarity and resolve.
Last edited by job; 01/09/2010:42 PM. Reason: edited language
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
May22, another thing I would suggest is to shut him down when he starts talking about AP. It’s sick for him to say all those things to you. You can listen and validate on other things he says about your M but not when he’s telling you how much he loves AP.
I actually pity the AP in an abstract way. She's toast.
Newbie, you make me smile. Thanks. (Though I don't think it is true. Or even if it is, doesn't mean he wants to be with me.)
Originally Posted by Woosa
May22, another thing I would suggest is to shut him down when he starts talking about AP. It’s sick for him to say all those things to you. You can listen and validate on other things he says about your M but not when he’s telling you how much he loves AP.
Woosa, I've told him this before, and for the most part he doesn't go into detail... some of what I write is me maybe putting words in his mouth a little bit because he isn't so explicit but I know what he is trying to say. Other times-- last night for example-- he gets frustrated that I don't understand him, I just don't get it, I don't get how he feels and he doesn't feel heard by me-- but he can't tell me because I don't want to talk about her. So in the name of validation I have opened the door here and there and listened. Part of me feels like it is a good thing to do because at least I am now starting to get it. (Also having all the information about his actions for the past two years has also helped open my eyes.)
Ugh. Why can I not just boot him to the curb?
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Wow! A really dramatic week. Sorry his mother didn't support you, and that looking at the divorce book was hard. You have such a difficult situation with little kiddos you love and want the best for. No shame in sleeping together. I hope it let off some steam. I suspect Hope_CA is right, your best chance to save this marriage is to force him to face you and the kids (50%) splitting. That's his fear, right? And he just saw again you two are sexually compatible. It could work if he were willing to try to make it work..
Originally Posted by "May"
Ugh. Why can I not just boot him to the curb?
Maybe because you love him and you took your vows "For better or worse" more seriously than he.. or.. what do you think keeps you from what part of you feels is best, booting him to the curb?
May: I'm going to hit you with my version of the 2x4. If your H really loved this AP, he would have been repulsed at the idea of sleeping with you. Would you sleep with another man right now? Think about that. He would be so glad you finally agreed to D he would be settling with you ASAP and would be out the door. Come on! I know you are too emotionally invested in this to see the truth but "the truth is out there." For Chrissake - I've been married nearly 31 years. I'm not exactly a dating veteran but even I can see this! I don't know how you leverage this strategy wise but it's still there for you. I'll believe that until the day your D is final.
I've got a somewhat similar position. Mine can finalize his next week but has taken no steps to do that and has been in CONSTANT contact with me since the day he filed. I have been an idiot: giving him what he wants, making it easy for him to continue on this path. I finally had enough a couple of days ago and cut the cord. He now is going to experience the life he thinks he wants without me and if he really wants it, which I suspect he does not. If he does go through with it, then I saved myself more emotional distress and put myself on the right path. This isn't easy for any of us but at some point the survival instinct kicks in. Hang in there.
