Appreciate everyone's input re: kids and the impact of a D.
On another note, what has been everyone's experience and observations regarding physiological/chemical issues with their WAS and their current state of affairs? To my knowledge, my W 43 has not been been screened for pre-menopause, depression or had her hormone levels checked out. She has been complaining of abdominal/uterine discomfort for a couple of days and is going to her doctor today to get looked at.
To be clear, I am NOT looking for an answer from a doctor that would miraculously help my sitch, but if it were me, I'd certainly want to get checked out physically before I made life-altering decisions like those W has made/is considering.
Oh W if it were that easy. No doubt hormones are playing a part in it. I’ll give you an example from my sitch how all logic and reason is out the window.
My ex is very frugal. We would argue often about money. One of our go arounds was what temperature to keep the heat on because she paid the bill. Everything was about money.
So after all that she pays 8k to her lawyer at takes out a 30 year mortgage that will be paid when she’s 77.
The only thing they can focus on is how they feel right now and nothing else matters. Even if a doctor explained it to her it wouldn’t change anything.
Her constant thought is I’m not happy and WLMC is the reason.
Sorry Jim I don’t agree. They are affected sure. Traumatized and psychologically damaged are too strong of words.
Also children brought up in homes of high conflict are just as affected.
You can play semantics with it, but it is never NOT traumatizing to have your family broken up... even as an young adult. And i came from a "high conflict" home (no violence, but plenty of conflict) and i can absolutely 100% tell you that it is still traumatizing to have your parents split. The scholarly literature on this point is clear-- all else being equal children are almost always "better off" when mom and dad don't split. The amount of "conflict" has to rise to the level of "extreme" and/or include actual abuse before the calculus flips. Hell, I've even known people(cousins) to come from actually abusive situations that were still broken up when their parents split. Their whole paradigm of existence, safety net, whatever you want to call it, has just been blown up. That "kids will be okay" or "better off" is a little white lie that WAS's or, in fact, any willing party to a divorce tells his/herself to ease their own psyche/conscience. How often do you see this narrative with the WWs? I have seen multiple cases involving friends/family where the parents tell themselves and others that "the kids are doing great" or "they're so strong we're so proud of them" while in actuality the kids are being torn up inside and, frequently, do not feel like they can confide their feelings to their parents but rather tell their friends and others... who then also don't tell the parents for fear of "interfering". World we live in.
Look, I'm not saying that children of divorce are all going to turn into psychopathic axe murderers or try to commit suicide at the drop of a hat,nor even to say that all marriages should be saved... but to say that your parents splitting up is "not traumatizing" borders on the nonsensical unless you come from an EXTREMELY dysfunctional home... which most are not. Dysfunctional, yes, to the extreme, no. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by hoosjim; 11/21/1908:18 PM.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Sorry Jim I don’t agree. They are affected sure. Traumatized and psychologically damaged are too strong of words.
Also children brought up in homes of high conflict are just as affected.
You can play semantics with it, but it is never NOT traumatizing to have your family broken up... even as an young adult. And i came from a "high conflict" home (no violence, but plenty of conflict) and i can absolutely 100% tell you that it is still traumatizing to have your parents split. The scholarly literature on this point is clear-- all else being equal children are almost always "better off" when mom and dad don't split. The amount of "conflict" has to rise to the level of "extreme" and/or include actual abuse before the calculus flips. Hell, I've even known people(cousins) to come from actually abusive situations that were still broken up when their parents split. Their whole paradigm of existence, safety net, whatever you want to call it, has just been blown up. That "kids will be okay" or "better off" is a little white lie that WAS's or, in fact, any willing party to a divorce tells his/herself to ease their own psyche/conscience. How often do you see this narrative with the WWs? I have seen multiple cases involving friends/family where the parents tell themselves and others that "the kids are doing great" or "they're so strong we're so proud of them" while in actuality the kids are being torn up inside and, frequently, do not feel like they can confide their feelings to their parents but rather tell their friends and others... who then also don't tell the parents for fear of "interfering". World we live in.
Look, I'm not saying that children of divorce are all going to turn into psychopathic axe murderers or try to commit suicide at the drop of a hat,nor even to say that all marriages should be saved... but to say that your parents splitting up is "not traumatizing" borders on the nonsensical unless you come from an EXTREMELY dysfunctional home... which most are not. Dysfunctional, yes, to the extreme, no. We'll have to agree to disagree.
My parents had nasty arguments and ended up divorced...
I was raised by a single mom, and fortunately, her love was more than enough to make up for it - she never dated / remarried. I feel like my hardships growing up made me stronger and more self-confident. However, the impact was that I had really nasty arguments in my relationship, and I don't want to have kids in fear of being here.
My WW had both biological parents growing up healthy middle class family, and she's a serial cheater...
Appreciate everyone's input re: kids and the impact of a D.
On another note, what has been everyone's experience and observations regarding physiological/chemical issues with their WAS and their current state of affairs? To my knowledge, my W 43 has not been been screened for pre-menopause, depression or had her hormone levels checked out. She has been complaining of abdominal/uterine discomfort for a couple of days and is going to her doctor today to get looked at.
To be clear, I am NOT looking for an answer from a doctor that would miraculously help my sitch, but if it were me, I'd certainly want to get checked out physically before I made life-altering decisions like those W has made/is considering.
Hi W. I can only answer what I've noticed about my H; male menopause .There's another term for it. and it does have to do with changes in certain hormone levels, signs of depression... (in men it's similar to mlc). But I WISH he'd see a doctor about his moodiness & depression. Not sure where his heads at now.
Back to your sitch.....
That's good your W is seeing a doctor for her discomfort. I'm not a doctor, but I am close to your wife's age, I can relate. We are all different, so it could be anything really. Be supportive if she needs anything. Did she bring up premedopause and the other tests? Just curious.
Last edited by CanBird; 11/22/1908:55 AM.
~Never Give Up ~ 2019 Mar BD June BD Dec Aow/xgf 2020 Jan he wants D Feb he flys2 ow Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn Apr he leaves for work until Nov Oct D FINAL 2020 Living MY Happiest Life Ever
I did ask her how she was and how it went when I saw her upon getting home from work. Turned out to be a fairly harmless polyp (which she's had before). No other tests or discussions to my knowledge.
On another note, what has been everyone's experience and observations regarding physiological/chemical issues with their WAS and their current state of affairs? To my knowledge, my W 43 has not been been screened for pre-menopause, depression or had her hormone levels checked out. She has been complaining of abdominal/uterine discomfort for a couple of days and is going to her doctor today to get looked at.
To be clear, I am NOT looking for an answer from a doctor that would miraculously help my sitch, but if it were me, I'd certainly want to get checked out physically before I made life-altering decisions like those W has made/is considering.
I'm sure you've seen that we often say to let go of the need to know "why". I've watched years and years of people trying to diagnose their WAS here and it never amounts to anything. Even if you could figure out if she has some kind of mental health ailment, she's not going to be interested in treatment because she is convinced that you are at fault for every problem great and small in her life and getting rid of you is the answer. Many people have sent their WAS info on MLC, menopause, the negative effects of long-term anti-depressant usage, etc. etc. and it absolutely falls on deaf ears.
That said, I am absolutely convinced that many sitches here are the direct result of a mid-life change. Call it menopause or whatever, but it seems quite clear to me that some people do change at some point in their life and change quite dramatically. My XW was one of them. A lof of LBS's are so confused because there is just no making any sense out of it. It's some chemical change in the brain or something, and it's notable that almost all LBS's describe their WAS as if they've been taken over by an alien. They cease being who they were and convert into someone we barely know or recognize. When I was in high school a friend had a traumatic head injury after getting hit by a car. He fully recovered, but he had a completely different personality. Was very bold and assertive before and became very meek, mild and quiet after. It's very similar to the "before" and "after" personality transition my XW went through (except in her case it was the opposite). Medical science does not understand why these things happen. Maybe they will some day and come up with a treatment, or better yet, preemptive steps to prevent it from happening in the first place.
Sorry Jim I don’t agree. They are affected sure. Traumatized and psychologically damaged are too strong of words.
Also children brought up in homes of high conflict are just as affected.
Nothing is an absolute. Some kids are relatively unaffected. Some are traumatized and psychologically damaged. I dated a girl when I was young that was traumatized and psychologically damaged from her parents D, including her mother's A and leaving for the OM. And her dad's subsequent remarrying. So it can happen.
But I also agree that children brought up in high conflict homes are just as affected.
Marital problems, whether it results in the end of the marriage or not, has an affect on the kids. From relatively minor.....up to and including traumatizing and psychological damaging.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Nothing is an absolute. Some kids are relatively unaffected. Some are traumatized and psychologically damaged. I dated a girl when I was young that was traumatized and psychologically damaged from her parents D, including her mother's A and leaving for the OM. And her dad's subsequent remarrying. So it can happen.
There are no guarantees in life, except that none of us get out of it alive. Not all marriages can or even should be saved, not all kids from happy unbroken homes become saints, and not all kids from broken homes become disasters. I just take exception to the blanket statement that "the children will always be better off" with a divorce than with conflict-ing parents as a justification or rationalization for D, or that "the children can always be shielded from psych trauma if the D is handled correctly." Neither statement is true. In fact, IIRC, MWD makes it a point to "bust" that as a "myth" in one of the early chapters of DB-ing. Is divorce sometimes the best or only solution to a troubled marriage. Sure.... But to one degree or another, no matter what the dynamics at play and no matter how "successful" the ultimate outcome for all involved, it is almost always traumatic to the children when the parents split.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
