Maybe I know what to do 4

[Ready2Change]

Hi Oz,

I agree with Sandi2. She is very wise. She articulates things very well.

As far as #7, balance that with talking care of things. I get home from work and relax. My lady is destessing by doing chores. A few hours later, I am doing things and she is relaxing with netflix. I always stop what I am doing and "Listen to understand" and validate with full attention when she needs to talk.


Professional help --> Get IC for you. This is very important. It is fully under your control.

[ozman]

Wow sandi. Uhm. I don’t really know what to say... I’m just kinda floored. I guess I’ll go through your points and respond

1 I feel amazing when I run. I’m gonna start that in the morning

2 this is exactly what I do in the morning. She leaves about 45 before I do for work. I take S to sitter. W picks him up in evening. When she leaves she always gives me a very friendly “have a good day”. I do the same to her. Sometimes I drop a small compliment about her looks. She has started ignoring them. But doesn’t seem off put

3. We both usually get off work about the same time every day. So we usually both know where S is and what he needs

4 this is a good idea. I will probably start trying to keep a calendar. Thanks

5 she usually does not text me much. Not I her. That stopped after BD. but when she does it’s always polite

6 since I have stopped pressure and pursuit she is usually pretty chatty when I get home. (Before she would just say “fine” and wouldn’t talk to me when I asked about her day). I will ask how her day was and she will open the flood gates and tell me all the details. This conversation has gone on for a couple hours sometimes. (Once she sat beside me on porch and we were awful close. I make lots of eye contact which is new for me and she holds it a lot

She usually doesn’t try to go anywhere when she gets off work.( there have been a couple times her sister had S so she would spend an hour over there when she went to pick up S). But 95% of the time when I get off work she has picked up S and is already home.when she does want to go somewhere it’s usually with her fam and she always invites me

7 I try to act like myself when I’m around her except for the fact I don’t touch her anymore. I stopped doing the things that used to annoy her. Sometimes she will sit across the room from me. Sometimes she will sit down beside me. Other than that our dynamic of behavior is better than it has been.

8 it’s hard for me to not take things personally. I’m trying to work on that. I try to be respectful when she is changing. I don’t gawk. Even though we are H and W that’s kinda rude.
She hasn’t really made any plans since BD except the wedding and she decided not to go to that

9 body language is difficult for autistic people. We don’t interpret it or know how ours affects other people. But I’ve been working on it. When she is talking I’ve been trying to look more relaxed and nonchalant. Not stand there with my arms crossed like I normally do. I try not to stand too close. I am experimenting with this to see how she reacts

I have always “popped” her back which after BD she wouldn’t let me and then I quit offering. When she tries to do it in her own I wish I could help. But I just keep my distance

Projects around house are weird because I will say I’m gonna do X or I will just go do X without saying anything and she will usually follow me in there a bit later and start to help right beside me. I don’t ever follow her into a room. Usually the other way around

Example. Sunday is our house cleaning day. This past Sunday =

H well I’m gonna get started
W what are you gonna work on
H I’m gonna start in the laundry room what about you?
W I’ll come and help in laundry room

It goes like this a lot

She always writes a list on Sunday

10. She has never ASKED for a S or D Just ILYBINILWY followed me asking her if she would be happier without me and she said “I would be less miserable without you”. 3 days later I asked if she wanted D she said “I dunno I don’t want to do this tonight”. That’s it. Her only other move was to get her own health insurance separate if family. But that’s been awhile ago

We sleep in same bed and if she is in A it’s an emotional one. But I’m not sure. She has a lot of friends who want to reconnect after this many years being gone.

She was extremely disrespectful around BD time. Putting me down to her family. Calling me stupid. This has all vanished. Now she asks me my opinion on things to do and what we should buy and things like that. I haven’t sensed any disrespect in a while. She asks my opinion more each day. She has actually started asking about my day and my job and how it’s going

I don’t think she wants to work on our M professionally right now. Her exact words night of Bd was I don’t think I want to work on it

But it seems a lot has changed for the better since then. It just seems very fragile

But I notice things like last night

H I’m gonna go sit in porch for a min and enjoy a drink
W ok
I go out and sit down
10 min later she comes out and sits in chair behind me
Silence for a while
W what you thinkin
H it’s a nice evening
W yes it is , I miss our dogs we had to leave at farm
H me too

She will follow me around and almost never goes out unless it’s with family then she invited me

[Ready2Change]

6 since I have stopped pressure and pursuit she is usually pretty chatty when I get home. (Before she would just say “fine” and wouldn’t talk to me when I asked about her day). I will ask how her day was and she will open the flood gates and tell me all the details. This conversation has gone on for a couple hours sometimes. (Once she sat beside me on porch and we were awful close. I make lots of eye contact which is new for me and she holds it a lot

This is good. The flood gates are good. Even if it is about you. Remember, it really isn't about you. It is her story about you. Listen to understand her feelings and validate.

[ozman]

So does sandis rules still apply? Does this actually make my sitch different.

Why does she think my M can be saved?

Does this change the way I behave around my W

Or what I talk about to her?

Cause as I said. The only thing missing from having a really good R right now is intimacy

Either way. I don’t want to be codependent anymore. I just don’t want to lose her. I just want to have a new better R with her.

[SteveLW]

Cause as I said. The only thing missing from having a really good R right now is intimacy

ozman, this is revisionist. Even if you were being intimate with her, the fact is that she BD'd you. Lots of LBSs think "We are having sex. She is being nice. We are Ring." Only to find out later that the WAS's plan is the same as it has always been: "I want out."

So just be careful with grand pronouncements like this.

[ozman]

Thanks Steve. Your right. I’ll try to keep my head level . Does sandis comments change anything I should be doing?

She said she thought it could be saved. Why?

We do need professional help. But how do we do that if she doesn’t want to?

[kas99]

I'm a researcher and I've read everything on the subject of divorce statistics. I love numbers. Here are the stats on separations.

40-50% of all married couples will try again. Out of this group only 10% will make it. Reason being most people don't change so the problems that existed before will exist again. The average separation is 1 year. Men come back more than women do.

I don't have any real advice for you I just wanted to say the odds aren't as bleak as many would like you to believe. Work on fixing your side of the street. Difficult to do while she's there so my heart goes out to you. Good luck and hang in there.

[Ready2Change]

We do need professional help. But how do we do that if she doesn’t want to?

You get yourself profesional help (IC) first. Do not bring up MC. Timing is wrong.

[Ready2Change]

She said she thought it could be saved. Why?

I believe you have better chance than most here, IF YOU SET HER FREE AND START FOCUSING ON YOU .

There are 100's of positive changes you can make in your behavior that will all add up to you being more attractive.

Right now, focus on the top 5. Get them completely part of the new you. Then start working on the next 5.


What do you think are the top 5? (or 10). List them out and we will help clarify.

[sandi2]

Sometimes I drop a small compliment about her looks. She has started ignoring them. But doesn’t seem off put

What type of compliments? About how she looks? Have you always complimented her, or did you start after she dropped the bomb? I suggest you go easy on compliments about her looks, especially if this is new for you. And don't over kill, just b/c I am responding about compliments, okay? Don't go too far either way. Find other things to compliment her, like how great she cooked a particular dish, or how much patience she has with your son.......things that will give her encouragement and help her self esteem. Wives get tired of their H's just saying, "You look nice". Give her more details! Use different praises. Don't just say the same old thing every time. Maybe you could google suggestions as to how to compliment your wife. Be sure you type in "wife".

Here's the thing about this period called DBing. You have to learn a lot of information. You cannot learn, or even concentrate.....when all your mind is thinking, "How do I win her back". We are trying to tell you what to do that will give you the best chance, but you've got to slow down and soak in what we are saying.

since I have stopped pressure and pursuit she is usually pretty chatty when I get home. (Before she would just say “fine” and wouldn’t talk to me when I asked about her day). I will ask how her day was and she will open the flood gates and tell me all the details. This conversation has gone on for a couple hours sometimes. (Once she sat beside me on porch and we were awful close. I make lots of eye contact which is new for me and she holds it a lot

Does she sound more like herself before she gave you the ILYBINILWY speech? It's good that she is the one who makes the move to sit next to you. However, just don't try to make this a bigger deal than it is. You have her under a microscope, and dissecting every little thing. For all we know, she was caught up in her chattiness and didn't even think about sitting down next to you. You shouldn't think anything about it, either....b/c tomorrow she may be in a different mood.

You have said a lot about how you hold eye contact. I know, it's in the 37 rules to look her in the eyes when she says something, b/c that is one way of showing that you are really listening and not just tuning her out. But listen, Oz.......are you over doing it? This is the main rule I've heard you repeat over & over. Okay, so you are looking in her eyes. But you may drop your gaze just a little sometimes. Like if you are sitting side by side and not facing each other. It's fine to look her way when she's talking, but it could make a person feel a bit uncomfortable--- if every time you turned to stare into their eyes until they completely finished speaking. Do I make sense? I don't know how well this comes naturally for you. Learning how to balance these type of things seem difficult for a lot of H's who read the rules. So, I hope I am not confusing you when I try to suggest a little adjustment from time to time. I don't want you to appear awkward or unnatural when you are demonstrating this action. Shifting your glance once in a while, and then looking back at her is not the same as ignoring her or turning your back and walking away while she's talking. Am I making sense? Don't over do it. Stay balanced in these things you read.

Hovering over her, watching her too much, or trying to coax her to give you affection is all emotional pressure for her. It is unattractive to her, plain & simple. MR's go through changes, b/c life changes and throws a lot of cr@p into our laps. If a young couple doesn't grow together, they will grow apart. It's very challenging and we go through bad patches where one spouse gets very tired and aggravated toward the other spouse. It's like you get on her nerves and can't do anything right. So, when you got scared and started pressing her more, it turned her off. Lean that lesson well, Oz, and don't be guilty of emotional pressuring her again. It can make the most handsome of men not so attractive to the one being pressured to show love.

She usually doesn’t try to go anywhere when she gets off work.( there have been a couple times her sister had S so she would spend an hour over there when she went to pick up S). But 95% of the time when I get off work she has picked up S and is already home.when she does want to go somewhere it’s usually with her fam and she always invites me

Okay, good to know. What about her cell phone use? Is she constantly looking at her phone? Now days, so many people are addicted to their phone and can't lay it down to do anything else.

I try to act like myself when I’m around her except for the fact I don’t touch her anymore. I stopped doing the things that used to annoy her.

What did you do that annoyed her? Was it the way you touched, when you did it, or what? You said sex had been spotty. Has it been that way for a long time? Why was she so upset when she got pregnant? Do you think she fears getting pregnant again?

After some time has gone by and things improve, you might be able to SLOWLY start introducing small nonsexual touches once in a while. The kind you'd give a sister or an old lady. However, don't get excited yet. There is work to do before you start this. If a couple stays together, they should never to get to the place there is no touching of any kind, IMHO. So, just hang on, okay?

Sometimes she will sit across the room from me. Sometimes she will sit down beside me. Other than that our dynamic of behavior is better than it has been.

So why are you having a nervous breakdown? If the dynamic is better, what changed, and why are still climbing the walls about everything? I think you are your own worst enemy, b/c you are TERRIFIED she'll leave you. That alone, is enough to drive her away. You had better learn to like yourself more, b/c your self hate is going to kill her love. If you don't like yourself, how can you expect anyone else to think higher of you? You radiate those feelings into others, so please read self help books, or get therapy to figure this out and change your thinking/feelings. No wonder you take things so personally, when you think so little of yourself. ((Oz))

it’s hard for me to not take things personally. I’m trying to work on that.

May I ask a question about autism, b/c I know little on the subject and I may really show my ignorance by asking this first question. Were you taught certain coping techniques........for when you feel overly sensitive or anxious? Do you see someone for support? Do you attend a support group for parents with autistic children? Surely in a big city there would be something like that for MR's, as well. How soon did your W know about your autism after she moved in with you? Does she blame you for your son's autism?

body language is difficult for autistic people. We don’t interpret it or know how ours affects other people. But I’ve been working on it. When she is talking I’ve been trying to look more relaxed and nonchalant. Not stand there with my arms crossed like I normally do. I try not to stand too close. I am experimenting with this to see how she reacts

She knows you better than anyone else. So if you are faking, she knows it. Maybe you could practice with someone else, first? This is why I am asking so many questions. That's a lot to try and remember, especially if it doesn't feel natural.

10. She has never ASKED for a S or D Just ILYBINILWY followed me asking her if she would be happier without me and she said “I would be less miserable without you”. 3 days later I asked if she wanted D she said “I dunno I don’t want to do this tonight”. That’s it. Her only other move was to get her own health insurance separate if family. But that’s been awhile ago

Okay, so don't ask her anymore if she wants a S/D. It puts pressure on her to give an answer, and it may not be the one you want to hear.

She was extremely disrespectful around BD time. Putting me down to her family. Calling me stupid.

Unless I missed something, this particular behavior ^^^ is the only thing that seems similar to a WW, however, I just don't think it would all vanish if she was a WW. I'm not saying that all the sources of stress would not lead her away, but at the moment, I don't see typical waywardness in her behavior patterns, that is so prevalent in the stories we read on the board. She may have been considering leaving. People who have been lived in long term crisis react in different ways, just trying to escape the pain. Frankly, I don't know how she has coped. It may not be you that she wants to leave. It may just be the situation she faces every single day. You have not had it any easier than your W, but you got emotionally weaker than she. A wife can forgive her H for getting physically ill, and she can endure his depression or other issues for a while. However, there are not many who can deal long term with an emotionally weak man who desperately depends on her for his emotional survival. She needs regular support with these issues she is facing. She needs to meet with other mothers with autistic sons. She needs to meet with other wives who have H's with autism. That does not mean this is all your fault. I'm not saying that at all. You both have your hands full, and need a support network.

This has all vanished. Now she asks me my opinion on things to do and what we should buy and things like that. I haven’t sensed any disrespect in a while. She asks my opinion more each day. She has actually started asking about my day and my job and how it’s going

That's good, and I hope it continues. You have to make changes to help your MR. You are working on it, but you need to find support, b/c you can't continue to handle it alone. By support, I mean people you see in real life. People who understand and are experienced with autism. People who offer positive assistance and support.

Don't give up on yourself.