So then do you really recommend just totally pulling away and moving on so that she sees that instead of being desperate?
I feel like it’s the same as the other in that I need to find the right balance, right?
Yes. Why? These lines from the movie Swingers help explain it:
MIKE And what if I don't want to give up on her?
ROB You don't call.
MIKE But you said I shouldn't call if I wanted to give up on her.
ROB Right.
MIKE So I don't call either way.
ROB Right.
MIKE So what's the difference?
ROB The only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. See, you can't do anything to make her want to come back. You can only do things to make her not want to come back.
MIKE So the only difference is if I forget about her or pretend to forget about her.
ROB Right.
MIKE Well that [censored].
ROB It [censored].
MIKE So it's almost a retroactive decision. So I could, like, let's say, forget about her and when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her.
ROB Right...or more likely the opposite.
MIKE Right... Wait, what do you mean?
ROB I mean first you'll pretend not to care, not call - whatever, and then, eventually, you really won't care.
MIKE Unless she comes back first.
ROB Ah, see, that's the thing. Somehow they don't come back until you really don't care anymore.
MIKE There's the rub.
ROB There's the rub.
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I came back home because I was told to and because I thought I was doing what the best for our family. It definitely wasn’t to garner her favor, as she didn’t want me to come back yet. While it’s best that the WAS leave, do you think it’s any different that I left?
I think it puts you in a worse position when you leave versus her leaving, and I could fill this page up with reasons. But it's water under the bridge now so make the best of it. In the end physical separation is better for your sitch than in-house separation no matter who leaves.
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Any more advice?
Just to be patient. Read, GAL, work on yourself and take a view that you're in this for the long haul!
Had a great MC session today. We had very positive conversations and the W talked about a future, whatever future that looked like. She never mentioned D or separation once. We even talked about what she needs to forgive me.
She did want me to let her have our son for the holiday next week. However, she didn’t get upset, just irritated when I said no.
I am sorry that I have not been able to post for several days. I am way behind, and I may not get through today.
I have written several threads devoted to the subject of the wayward wife. If you have not read them, they may hold a few answers to your questions, or give you direction.
The first thread (even first page of the first thread) should help you determine if she is wayward. If you read and see your W in what I write, then I would say she is WW. Having an affair is not the only defining characteristic of the wayward W. She didn't get where she is now, overnight. That's why I write in that thread about the mindset of the WW.
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One of my problems is that I’ve tried so many different approaches since March because none of them work that she thinks I’m crazy or have different personalities. I try to stick with what works, but every conversation is different. I truly don’t know if she is a WAW or WW, but it seems she’s a WW from what I’ve read on here. I’ve been nice and understanding, even trying to see things from her point of view, though I did still pursue her up until about 6 weeks ago. I have tried everything and since nothing seems to be working, I think have decided the tough love thing is what I may need to do.
She will do a lot of projecting in her conversations with you, or she'll say things that may seem completely illogical, or misfit in the discussion. Google search "word salad".
Your niceness may look fake to her, especially if you are trying too hard. And while on the subject of niceness, I want to add that a WW's sudden niceness needs to be a red flag for the unsuspecting LBH. While it may mean nothing, I can assure you that it usually means most anything.....other than a sign she's changing her mind about the MR. I want to warn H's of the WW who suddenly becomes affectionate, very chummy, wanting to hang out, etc. If she's been a sloppy housekeeper, or never cooks, washes clothes, etc..........and you go home to find it spotless and she's cooked your favorite meal, then I have one word. Beware! She's up to no good. It doesn't mean what the LBH hopes it means. He wants to believe it's a baby step of progress, although she may still having an affair, or whatever. Beware whenever there is sudden change toward her H.
The WW has to work through a lot of issues before heartfelt change takes place. Until she feels remorse for her waywardness, and humility in her heart, her overt niceness is not much more than one would give a total stranger. If the couple has not been working together to reconcile, the LBH should not jump to thinking it is a sign that she is "changing" just b/c she chose to be nice one day. Don't put much value in anything she does "suddenly". Look for consistent actions. As long as she holds onto the resentment, disrespect, blaming, score keeping, sense of entitlement, rebellion, selfishness, etc..........a sudden burst of niceness should be taken at face value (at the most). Her heart must soften in order for her to change on the inside. Most anyone can be nice for a few minutes, but is it genuine on the inside? So, if she has treated her H like garbage, and then out of the blue she suddenly starts gushing all over him........he better be careful, b/c she's playing games with him.
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I took the approach that I messed up, so maybe it’s my time to eat crow. However it’s been 3-4 months. That’s long enough, especially with no changes and her not wanting to even work on our marriage AT ALL.
How long did it take her to decide she wanted a separation when you confessed your affair? My observation IRL has noted that most wives decide they want a separation upon hearing about H's affair, or a few days later. However, they don't have the changes you've described about your W (guarding cell phone, wearing more makeup, neglecting family, etc.). Some women have an exit affair or revenge affair.
From this day forward, you need to stop seeing the sitch as some type of payback or punishment for your own affair. Focus on being the man you want to become, and the father you want to be for your child.
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I very sternly and respectfully demanded respect this week on webchat. In addition, I also confronted her on webchat outside of MC for the first time and let her know I know, but she still adamantly denies everything.
Can you explain what you mean by very sternly & respectfully demanded respect? Was she speaking in a disrespectful manner or something else? Do you mean you informed her that in the future you expected to be shown respect. IDK if you are referring to having respect while using the webchat, or if you told her over webchat that you would be respected.
I wish I had more time today to discuss tough love with you. There is a famous Christian author who wrote a book with that title, if you care to search for it. In the meantime, please don't inform your W that you are going to apply tough love with her. Don't tell her anything along those lines. Don't do anything until you know what it is you are suppose to do. Okay? Too many LBH's jump off into something new without really grasping it.
Hope to have a chance to post again this weekend. (hugs)
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
How long did it take her to decide she wanted a separation when you confessed your affair? My observation IRL has noted that most wives decide they want a separation upon hearing about H's affair, or a few days later. However, they don't have the changes you've described about your W (guarding cell phone, wearing more makeup, neglecting family, etc.). Some women have an exit affair or revenge affair.
From this day forward, you need to stop seeing the sitch as some type of payback or punishment for your own affair. Focus on being the man you want to become, and the father you want to be for your child.
Sorry, I was thinking you had an affair, but realized my mistake after sending my previous post. The advice still stands in my previous post.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am sorry that I have not been able to post for several days. I am way behind, and I may not get through today.
I have written several threads devoted to the subject of the wayward wife. If you have not read them, they may hold a few answers to your questions, or give you direction.
The first thread (even first page of the first thread) should help you determine if she is wayward. If you read and see your W in what I write, then I would say she is WW. Having an affair is not the only defining characteristic of the wayward W. She didn't get where she is now, overnight. That's why I write in that thread about the mindset of the WW.
I have read those many times and have been using them to figure out if she is a WAW or a WW. Thank you!!!
Originally Posted by sandi2
She will do a lot of projecting in her conversations with you, or she'll say things that may seem completely illogical, or misfit in the discussion. Google search "word salad".
Your niceness may look fake to her, especially if you are trying too hard. And while on the subject of niceness, I want to add that a WW's sudden niceness needs to be a red flag for the unsuspecting LBH. While it may mean nothing, I can assure you that it usually means most anything.....other than a sign she's changing her mind about the MR. I want to warn H's of the WW who suddenly becomes affectionate, very chummy, wanting to hang out, etc. If she's been a sloppy housekeeper, or never cooks, washes clothes, etc..........and you go home to find it spotless and she's cooked your favorite meal, then I have one word. Beware! She's up to no good. It doesn't mean what the LBH hopes it means. He wants to believe it's a baby step of progress, although she may still having an affair, or whatever. Beware whenever there is sudden change toward her H.
The WW has to work through a lot of issues before heartfelt change takes place. Until she feels remorse for her waywardness, and humility in her heart, her overt niceness is not much more than one would give a total stranger. If the couple has not been working together to reconcile, the LBH should not jump to thinking it is a sign that she is "changing" just b/c she chose to be nice one day. Don't put much value in anything she does "suddenly". Look for consistent actions. As long as she holds onto the resentment, disrespect, blaming, score keeping, sense of entitlement, rebellion, selfishness, etc..........a sudden burst of niceness should be taken at face value (at the most). Her heart must soften in order for her to change on the inside. Most anyone can be nice for a few minutes, but is it genuine on the inside? So, if she has treated her H like garbage, and then out of the blue she suddenly starts gushing all over him........he better be careful, b/c she's playing games with him.
I wish we were at this point. She didn’t mention anything about D or separation in MC this week and I thought it went very well. I don’t think she is a WW, though. I feel like I have to trust her, even though there are many signs she’s a WW.
She projects so much and has for 3 months. She has even started telling me that maybe I’m projecting! Lol
Originally Posted by sandi2
Can you explain what you mean by very sternly & respectfully demanded respect? Was she speaking in a disrespectful manner or something else? Do you mean you informed her that in the future you expected to be shown respect. IDK if you are referring to having respect while using the webchat, or if you told her over webchat that you would be respected.
I wish I had more time today to discuss tough love with you. There is a famous Christian author who wrote a book with that title, if you care to search for it. In the meantime, please don't inform your W that you are going to apply tough love with her. Don't tell her anything along those lines. Don't do anything until you know what it is you are suppose to do. Okay? Too many LBH's jump off into something new without really grasping it.
Hope to have a chance to post again this weekend. (hugs)
I told her that I demanded respect no matter what, whether in person or on webchat. She would speak down to me, roll eyes or make faces when I spoke, showing no respect at all. Though, I do seem to think that has changed or is changing.
I would never tell her anything about tough love. I feel like she wouldn’t feel that tough love if I did. I also hope you will find time to talk to me more about tough love. I think she could use it!
What are some consequences of a spouse that shows disrespect?
We are already barely speaking, except to talk abut our son. We don’t live together and we don’t see each other, except to webchat.
All of this has been her decision. I stopped reaching out a month or two ago, though I do tell her what my son and I are doing and ask her if she wants to join us. She always refuses.
I don’t think she is a WW, though. I feel like I have to trust her, even though there are many signs she’s a WW.
What are some of the things you feel you must trust her?
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I told her that I demanded respect no matter what, whether in person or on webchat. She would speak down to me, roll eyes or make faces when I spoke, showing no respect at all. Though, I do seem to think that has changed or is changing.
Why are you involved in the web chat? Isn't that when she talks to your son, or vise versa? Why can't it just be her and your son communicating?
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I would never tell her anything about tough love. I feel like she wouldn’t feel that tough love if I did. I also hope you will find time to talk to me more about tough love. I think she could use it!
I get the feeling that you don't fully understand tough love. And, if you believe she is a WAW instead of a WW, then why would you need to apply tough love?
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What are some consequences of a spouse that shows disrespect?
First of all, the two of you are physically separated. It comes right under getting a divorce. So, about the most you can do is protect yourself from disrespect. You must look at it as protecting yourself......instead of issuing consequences to her. If she is screaming, calling you names, cursing over the phone......then tell her you will disconnect the call if she doesn't talk to you respectfully. Same would go for web chat, or whatever type of communication. You don't have a discussion about it beforehand or afterwards. If she starts showing disrespect, you just tell her that you won't continue the call if she can't continue respectfully.
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We are already barely speaking, except to talk abut our son. We don’t live together and we don’t see each other, except to webchat.
So, what are some ways she shows disrespect?
How much do you feel MC is helping? Is this more of an opportunity where you get to see her in person and talk about the MR? Does the counselor give the two of you assignments, or is it just talking in the sessions?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, sorry for writing here but could you please read my thread and let me know your thoughts? Right now there´s only a part 1 which is why I´m hoping you look at it before it gets too long
Me: 38 Stbxw: 35 No kids Mini bd: February 6, 2019 ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019 Told her to move out: September 8, 2019 W moved out: September 28, 2019 Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
