I am feeling much better today. I didn't watch some live comedy, but I did listen to a few episodes of a gripping horror themed podcast I enjoy while I was ironing. I actually enjoy the ironing most Sunday nights (and enjoy having a little martyrish whinge about having to do it now and again...): it's an easy meditative sort of job and I can get on with it and feel a little sense of accomplishment when I'm done. I did a load of laundry at the weekend - bedlinen and covers for the sofas (having a dog, no matter how careful you are, involves a lot of filth in the house, I've learned) and the house looks like a laundrette at the moment.
Eldest is back at school today. Youngest isn't back until tomorrow, but he has a playdate this morning. I'm going to spend the morning in a new make-up shop that has opened up in town. H may be right that lipstick won't fix a marriage (what a genius he is) but I love a new lipstick and it's been a while, and I will be paying a bit less on the council tax from now on so I reckon I can afford an extra treat just because...
Your comment about negative energy is spot on. I know that I've always struggled to separate H's feelings from my own. In the past, I've not been able to be happy and okay unless he's feeling happy and okay. I've not been able to feel secure and settled unless he looks to be in a good mood with life and with the kids and with me. The past six months that went into overdrive - every time I saw him I'd be internally monitoring his mood and adjusting my own to it. It was the total opposite of detachment. It's insane behaviour on my part, and it must also have felt like pressure to him.
He said to me - in one of his angry texts over the past couple of days - that he felt things had been really improving and going well over the past couple of weeks before my holiday and during it - that we'd had lots of friendly contact and he felt things were moving in the right direction, and that I'd just gone and blown it all up in his face. Now, an ultimatum was never going to help matters. I know that. But the fact he thinks it was going well and I was gradually getting more and more resentful at stuffing back my feelings on how he was speaking to me and giving him care and attention and consideration he didn't seem to value and wasn't able to return is telling. He was getting what he wanted during those weeks - a free pass to act however he wanted from a wife who was too afraid of his anger to set a boundary and speak up for her own needs. Of course he thought things were going well...
I can't say I can just turn the switch off on that overnight - I don't think I could sit in a room with his misery and anger and validate it then get back to my happier existence without absorbing it. I'm not there yet. Next best thing is to stay away from him so he can't bring me down and I can't replay old habits.
I've heard back from my mortgage broker. I could refinance the house and give H what I consider to be a very fair amount of the equity (though I will seek legal advice on this before making any decisions, of course) without making my mortgage unaffordable to me. This would put the house entirely in my name and give H a lump sum he could feasibly use to buy his own place better suited to having Youngest over, or whatever else he wants to do. If I went ahead with it, he would need to co-operate by signing over the title of the house to me. If he refuses to do that, then my choices are to keep the status quo or set in motion the divorce, during which we'd go to court and eventually a judge would force him to do it, and he'd probably get less from the house than I am currently willing to offer (again, pending me getting legal advice - I went to a solicitor late last year and am acting on the information I got then, but will need to go and update him and check all is present and correct before acting).
The status quo is: H and I do not share any bank accounts and he is not paying me anything towards the mortgage - joint asset - or upkeep of kids (who spend every night with me, and are entirely fed and clothed by me). He's not in any debt and neither am I. We both have savings of our own that the other does not have access to.
I want to say to H something like this:
'I can buy you out of the house and here is what I am offering. If that is not acceptable but you want your share of the house money, then come back to me with an offer by XX. If you want to keep the house as a joint asset, you need to be paying half the mortgage from XX date.'
As for supporting his children - I'd prefer a private arrangement worked out on his salary and the number of nights he has the kids. If he doesn't want to participate in that conversation, I can go through the government agency. I'd prefer not to do that, but I guess I just give him a deadline and if he does nothing before that deadline, go through the agency?
The thing is, I don't think he will be able to afford to pay half the mortgage AND house himself right now. I earn about double what he does. And I predict if I put this to him verbally he will deflect and turn it into another rant about my shortcomings, which I am done with listening to. If I put it in an email he will either ignore it, or give a variety of delaying tactics. The status quo suits him very well but it does not suit me and I want to take healthy action to change it.
I don't feel in danger or that my finances are unsafe. I can afford everything as it stands without him, and I can afford to buy him out. I can afford to go through solicitors if he is difficult. I don't think there's a chance that he'd get himself into crazy debt, but we have no credit cards in joint names and I am pretty sure (though will also check this) if he takes out a loan or credit card in his name, it is nothing to do with me even while we are legally married.
I am not sure what it is reasonable to ask and I am not sure how to ask it. Suggestions? My motivation here is to put an end to the cake eating - he's acting like we're still married and he gets all the benefits of the house, my salary, etc etc and that needs to stop. He doesn't want to live here, which is fine, but he either pays for his asset or signs it over to me. Is that a boundary?
Also, for information: he earns a lot less than me because he was at home with the kids, then doing a long professional course. I will probably always out-earn him due to the nature of our professions. He'd have no case for spousal maintenance now he is working, but even though he has never paid into the mortgage equally with me, legally and morally he'd be entitled to 50% of the equity, though I am offering him less than that considering that I am housing his kids and he isn't.
I am so glad you are not going to continue to his bashing and cruelty. When he starts, remove yourself. He’s out of control now.
Here is my opinion on how to handle this situation. First, you have got to go dark. I rarely see it spoken of anymore, but it’s been pretty key sine I’ve been on these boards for 11 years. Your only communication is about necessary kids topics. You don’t discuss anything personal, relationship wise or otherwise. It’s for you. His counselor talk, you getting a book? All this. He is a big boy, he can do it if he wants. Talk means nothing until there is action. And I think any of this right now is more to say he “tried” everything and it didn’t work, so he could just walk away. He is in no place for marriage counseling and if you were to do that now, it would ruin chances of reconciliation more right now.
As far as the house, say nothing. If you mean this and you are ready to do this , and it isn’t a scare tactic of reality to him, do it right. Sit down with a lawyer and learn what the best options are and do it through the lawyer. You can’t work anything out like this with him right now.
What this marriage needs more than anything now is space. Don’t find reasons to communicate. Don’t talk about anything) unless kids) you live your life, let him sit in his reality and realize you aren’t to blame for all his issues.
It’s you tome, girl, save yourself before the marriage and go into a divorce with a clear mostly detached head when making house dealings.
There's no way at all I can imagine - even in my wildest dreams - him having a civil conversation with me about finances. There is some urgency regarding the mortgage as our deal is up for renewal in the summer. We need to make a joint decision (I can't refinance without him, he can't without me) while we're both on the title and the loan. As there's no real urgency in terms of me being able to afford things - and the longer this goes on for the better financial position I will be in - I don't have to buy him out. But I do have to sort out the deal. I've asked the broker to give me a second set of options for new mortgage deals with us both on the title - though I'd need to know his salary for that and I don't know it (I just sent her an estimation - he earns roughly half of what I do).
I guess if he declines to participate in either me buying him out or us going in on a new deal together (I expect he will do his usual attack / evade) then I will be forced to get solicitors involved - though I can't see even a legally enforced solution to this being something I'd be unhappy with. There's a built-in end date to this as current deal runs out in August.
Alison, first I think you did the right thing standing up to him, now keep standing firm and being consistent.
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
He said to me - in one of his angry texts over the past couple of days - that he felt things had been really improving and going well over the past couple of weeks before my holiday and during it - that we'd had lots of friendly contact and he felt things were moving in the right direction, and that I'd just gone and blown it all up in his face. Now, an ultimatum was never going to help matters. I know that. But the fact he thinks it was going well and I was gradually getting more and more resentful at stuffing back my feelings on how he was speaking to me and giving him care and attention and consideration he didn't seem to value and wasn't able to return is telling.
This is CLASSIC narcissistic control and manipulation. There's a name for it but it escapes me at the moment. Basically telling you that things were going the right direction and if only you hadn't have screwed it up he would have been ready to go all-in again. It's complete bullshit of course, he was no closer to coming back then at any other time since BD. But he's trying to control and manipulate you into not challenging him again by dangling the carrot of hope out there. He's STILL abusing you!
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'I can buy you out of the house and here is what I am offering. If that is not acceptable but you want your share of the house money, then come back to me with an offer by XX. If you want to keep the house as a joint asset, you need to be paying half the mortgage from XX date.'
As for supporting his children - I'd prefer a private arrangement worked out on his salary and the number of nights he has the kids. If he doesn't want to participate in that conversation, I can go through the government agency. I'd prefer not to do that, but I guess I just give him a deadline and if he does nothing before that deadline, go through the agency?
I would be surprised if he agrees to anything or responds at all, but it's not going to hurt anything to put it out there to him. Be prepared for a vitriolic response if you get any at all.
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And I predict if I put this to him verbally he will deflect and turn it into another rant about my shortcomings, which I am done with listening to. If I put it in an email he will either ignore it, or give a variety of delaying tactics.
I think you're right. Just give him a date, ignore any attempts to delay and if he doesn't reply by the date you give him then SAY NO MORE and proceed with legal action.
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I am not sure what it is reasonable to ask and I am not sure how to ask it. Suggestions? My motivation here is to put an end to the cake eating - he's acting like we're still married and he gets all the benefits of the house, my salary, etc etc and that needs to stop. He doesn't want to live here, which is fine, but he either pays for his asset or signs it over to me. Is that a boundary?
I think you're on the right track to protect yourself and help yourself move on. And yes I think it's a whopper of a boundary, and it's a good one as long as you are prepared to proceed legally to enforce it, which I am convinced you are ready for.
Alison: you need to see a solicitor and talk through all these options. Including what to do if he gets all arsey about it. It sounds like you're not in any hurry to actually D, just to sort out the financial side, so if he does choose to go ballistic about this then that is him choosing D instead of R. You can still buy him out of the house and leave the door open to a future R, if you decide that's what you want. But best to get things sorted financially, for sure.
Basically telling you that things were going the right direction and if only you hadn't have screwed it up he would have been ready to go all-in again. It's complete bullshit of course, he was no closer to coming back then at any other time since BD. But he's trying to control and manipulate you into not challenging him again by dangling the carrot of hope out there. He's STILL abusing you!
Yes, I think you're absolutely correct. He's either in a blind panic and pulling out all the stops to get me back in line, or he genuinely thought that the way things were over the past month or so was nice. Well, perhaps it was nice for him. It was not nice for me and that matters more right now. I suspect blind panic is what is happening, which is why I am staying away from him because if I know him like I think I do, it will get worse before it gets better and he realises I am not messing about.
Dilly - yes, I have decided, on balance, to go and see solicitor and discuss options before putting anything to DH. I am secure in the house, secure financially, and there is an option that I can refuse to release any equity at all and get child maintenance from him until the Youngest is 18 - then we'd sell and he'd get a fair proportion of what the house was worth when he stopped paying the mortgage. So even in the worst case scenario - I have to buy him out this year, and he gets 50% - I can financially cope and it's fine. He has no cards to play on this one. But there may be things I haven't foreseen. I have a good pension and he doesn't, after being at home or in education all that time - and I do want to be fair. His being a SAHD counts, and it matters. Will continue gathering information and get a solicitor's appointment asap.
As for divorce. I don't know. I've had a look at the paperwork and i could do it on unreasonable behaviour very easily. If we could sort out house and child-maintenance I imagine it could be over with relatively quickly. More likely he will stall and make things difficult and I don't care so much about it this second as to put myself through that. I am angry with him and I want to protect myself, but I do love him and there is still a bit of me that has hope he will do what it takes. I hope that bit of me dies a death soon, but only time and distance will achieve that.
That part from your H telling you that things had been going well and that if you hadn't done XYZ he;d have come back reminds me a lot of what my H said in our last R conversation. It's just like you told me on my thread, Alison; that you can't win with someone who is not committed to the marriage and doesn't give you the benefit of the doubt.
You sound like you are in a good place, moving forward with tasks that need dealing with to make you feel the way you want to feel in your life. As so many people here have told me, there is no reason you have to figure out if you want to divorce or not in this moment. The other things you are focusing on are big, and important, and enough to think about for right now.
I believe they call what he is doing is gaslighting
Oh yes, he is absolutely gaslighting her and has been for quite some time! I think the term I was looking for (regarding the specific example she mentioned up above) is "love bombing" though, where the narcissist says "Oh things were going so well but now look at what you've done, you ruined it all." Here's a description of love bombing:
"Love bombing is the reinforcement, where the abuser showers the victim with love if the victim acts how they want.
If the victim doesn't, then the devaluation stage happens, where they withdraw all their kindness and instead punish the victim with whatever they feel is appropriate — shouting, giving them the silent treatment, or even physically abusing them."
